Lyr/Tune Req: I Know You Rider

Subject: 'I Know You Rider'
From: GUEST,DAVE
Date: 18 Jun 00 - 03:51 PM

I heard this at a jam at Live Oak. High, sad and lonesome. Anyone know where I can find the words and music? THanks

Dave

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Pene Azul
Date: 18 Jun 00 - 04:01 PM

You can get the lyrics and chords to the Grateful Dead version here (click).

PA

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Pene Azul
Date: 18 Jun 00 - 04:10 PM

Here are lyrics to Janis Joplin's version and Hot Tuna's version .

PA

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Stewie
Date: 18 Jun 00 - 06:42 PM

Two recordings by the Seldom Scene are now available on CD: on 'Act III' Rebel CD-1528 and on the live 2-CD set 'Seldom Scene: Live at the Cellar Door' Rebel CD-1103, the latter being a 7-minute bluegrass tour de force. The words are basically the same as those in the link posted above for Grateful Dead version.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: GUEST,Dave:
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 12:22 AM

PA & Stewie

Thank you so much.

Dave

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 12:32 AM

OK, this is going to bug me until I get an answer, or until I get home to my vast library of folk resources later this week. I'd call this song a "60's folk scare" song that predates all of the performers that the well-intentioned but sometimes-misinformed Pene Azul referred to. The name Terry Gilkyson came to mind when I saw the name of this song here, but I really don't know if Gilkyson was associated with it.
I hate to admit this, but the only recording of the song I'm actually familiar with is one by The Big Three, which featured Mama Cass Elliot as lead vocalist (before she became a Mama).
So, who wrote the song, and who first recorded it? Lyrics are in the Digital Tradition, but I can't link to it with this darn WebTV I'm using this week.
-Joe Offer, on the road-

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Crowhugger
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 12:56 AM

...took the words right outa my mouth, Joe. I got a missing verse there. Great resource.

CH.

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Midchuck
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 07:01 AM

Once the Seldom Scene (the real Seldom Scene, before Duffey died) has recorded a song, all discussion of anyone else's versions is pointless and a waste of time.

If you would like to be advised of any of my other arbitrary prejudices, let me know and I'll start a new thread for that purpose.

Peter.

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: BlueJay
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 01:59 PM

I dunno Midchuck, I don't think The Seldom Scene have had any measurable impact on me. I myself, was born of the wind. Why don't you open up your window, let the sun shine in? If you ever come out to my part of the world, you can walk thru this world with me, go where I go. Then you'd see why they call it Paradise Valley! :) BlueJay

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Easy Rider
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 02:47 PM

This has always been one of my favorite Grateful Dead songs, After "Uncle John's Band", of course. The chords are simple, but I don't have the melody written out.

If someone can write out the melody, I'd like to try arranging it for fingerstyle guitar.

Let me know, EZR

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Easy Rider
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 03:23 PM

I found a set of words in the DT, but no melody, no MIDI file. Can somebody supply this?

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: John Hindsill
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 09:56 PM

Judy Henske did a bitchin' version of that song (credited to Trad.) on her eponymous Elektra album nearly 40 years ago. That album is one of my favorites...maybe because I was in the live audience when it was recorded. [how shallow!]

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 09:54 AM

Growing up in Phila in the late 50s and early 60s, when I first got a guitar & made friends many of them were taking lessons from Tossi Aaron; Rider (she just called it Rider) was her "signature song". Where she got it I don't know but I can remember her warm alto voice singing it-- I think she recorded it for Prestige Records (remember them?)

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Irish Rover
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 04:32 PM

It is on a Kingston Trio album from the 60's they list Judy Henski as author. The album was Sunshine something

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: Stewie
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 07:58 PM

Correction to information I gave above: The Seldom Scene 'Live at the Cellar Door' is a single CD, not a double. I was thinking of the original vinyl issue, which was a double, even though I had the single CD in my hand - it's a worry! It's an excellent CD and has all the tracks that appeared on the original double vinyl issue.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: GUEST,LJ
Date: 04 May 03 - 07:49 PM

Didn't Reno and Smiley do it? I would like to hear their arangement.
... I'm looking for a simple, pure, straight-ahead bluegrass arrangement. It's gotta an old, old song, becauuse it's simply listed as "traditional" in the bluegrass songbooks I have.

Subject: RE: 'I Know You Rider'
From: GUEST,Albert
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:38 AM

It was also done by Fred Neil. His version is quite different from the others I've heard. The Byrds also did a cracking version.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: I Know You Rider
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:34 PM

When I tried Pene's link to the Grateful Dead version, i got a "URL Not Found" message.

I can recall one verse (one of my favorites) regularly sung by the GD that isn't found among the Digitrad lyrics. Let me lay it on y'all:

I wish I was a headlight / On some northbound train (2x)
I'd shine my light through the cool Colorado rain.

I'm sure that this is an old, old song with many different and equally valid verses, and the Dead's selection of three or four verses is as "authentic" as anyone else's. Certainly, Jerry Garcia was as true a folkie as anyone else during his younger years; he undoubtedly knew the Judy Henske version (certainly from the recording, probably from live performance as well) and, as a serious banjo picker and scholar, he probably knew at least one other version as well, from the bluegrass tradition.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: I Know You Rider
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:35 PM

Dead's version:

I know you rider gonna miss me when I'm gone (2x)
Gonna miss your baby from rollin' in your arms

Laid down last night, Lord I could not take my rest(2x)
My mind was wand'ring* , like th wild geese in the west.

Well the sun gonna shine in my back door some day(2x)
March winds are gonna blow all my troubles away

I wish I was a headlight on a Northbound train ** (2x)
I'd shine my light through the cool Colorado rain

*** I'd rather drink muddy water, sleep in a hollow log(2x)
Than stay here in Frisco, be treated like a dog
(repeat first verse)


* sometimes sung as My mind was hunted/haunted...

** Some fans would sing this as "I wish I were the headlice on a tour-bound dread.

*** The "rather drink muddy water verse was sometimes sung during shows in the late 60's and early 70's and disappeared shortly after Rider became the closing of China Cat Sunflower and ceased to be it's own song. I don't know if the Muddy Water reference had anything to do with the singer of the same name.
Rich

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: I Know You Rider
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:16 PM

Rich,

The phrase "muddy water(s)" appeared in many many folk songs and blues songs -- including this one -- long before McKinley Morganfield adopted it as his stage name, undoubtedly because it was already a familiar blues phrase.

The Dead dropping this particular verse may have coincided with the death of Rod "Pigpen" McKernan, who used be the singer on this tune (probably dating back to the Warlocks before they became the Dead, or maybe all the way back to their original jug band incarnation -- Mother Machree's?). "Rider" probably became part of a medley with "China Cat" only after Pig's demise, or at least after he began to slowly fall apart.

Of course the city where one would rather not stay and be treated like a dog was *always* a fill-in-the-blank, perhaps starting with someplace like Clarksdale.

Never heard the "headlice" parody line before -- Thanks!

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: I Know You Rider
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:38 PM

I've heard tapes from early in the Keith and Donna era where Jerry sang the whole song including the muddy waters verse. It did probably go back to Mother MacCree's jug champions or possibly even the Sleepy Hollow Hog Stompers circa 1962.


I've not heard that verse elsewhere regarding Clarksdale or anywhere else, so thanks for the clarification


Rich

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: I Know You Rider
From: Stewie
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:38 PM

Judy Henske's version:

I KNOW YOU RIDER

I know you rider gonna miss me when I'm gone
I know you rider gonna miss me when I'm gone
Gonna miss your sweet-lovin' woman rollin' in your arms

Well the sun gonna shine 'round my back door some day
I said the sun's gonna shine 'round my back door some day
And the wind from the river's gonna blow my blues away

It takes a red-headed man to make a long-time woman feel bad
It takes a red-headed man to make a long-time woman feel bad
Oh it makes me remember 'bout that long slow rollin' I had

I know you rider gonna miss me when I'm gone
I know you rider gonna miss me when I'm gone
Gonna miss your sweet-lovin' woman rollin' in your arms

Source: transcribed from Judy Henske 'Judy Henske' reissued on Judy Henske 'Judy Henske'/'High Flyin' Bird' Elektra CD 8122 73561-2.


Martin & Neil's version:


I KNOW YOU RIDER

Instrumental intro

I say I know you rider miss me when I'm gone
I say I know you rider miss me when I'm gone
Won't have nobody now, mama, roll 'round in your sweet lovin' arms

Lovin' you baby, easy as fallin' off a log
Lovin' you baby, easy as fallin' off a log
I can't make love to you, mama, ain't gonna hang around and be your dirty dog

Early one mornin', rider, and it won't be long
Early one mornin', rider, and it won't be long
You gonna call my name now, baby, sweet lovin' daddy gonna be long gone

Intrumental break

I say I know you rider


Source: transcribed from Vince Martin & Fred Neil 'Tear Down the Walls' reissued on Fred Neil 'Tear Down the Walls'/'Bleecker & MacDougal' Elektra CD8122 73563-2.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: I Know You Rider
From: Stewie
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:51 PM

The Seldom Scene's 7-min version is more or less the same as the four stanzas of the Dead's version, posted above by Rich, with the first stanza repeated several times and long instumental breaks.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: I Know You Rider
From: clueless don
Date: 06 May 03 - 02:45 PM

The Seldom Scene versions (the "studio" version and the live version) are the only versions I know. They have the verse about "I wish I was a headlight, on a northbound train."

Doc Watson recorded a song, I think it was called "Cypress Grove", which has the line "I'd rather be drinkin' muddy water, steeped in a hollow log..."