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Lyr Add: The Sash My Father Wore
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Angel Blue Date: 15 Jul 00 - 04:31 PM Hello! What a lovely, helpful web site! I must come back often. SOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo glad I found you! |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Minstrel Bradford Date: 13 Jul 00 - 07:15 AM Yet Again someone sticks their head above the parapet to prove an age old adage "Born green, Turn yellow and hang around in bunches" or the definition of an Ulster Loyalist "One who is Loyal to the crown and even more loyal to the half crown" |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: InOBU Date: 12 Jul 00 - 07:28 AM I must agree with Barry and Keven, and not just because in reverce it becomes, Keven Barry... Giving Conrad grief is only going to increase his paranoia, the root of the Orange lad's usrrender of their humanity. As I believe I have told people here in the past, early in the seace fire, I was at WBAI passifica Raidio's studio in NYC, waiting to be interviewed about Roma (gypsies). By chance there was a spokesperson for the Orange Lodges in the studio, there to debate over the phone and be interviewed. The poor man looked absoultly misserable, as everyone in the studio was ignoring him, and he knew from the posters on the wall, he was not in a sympathetic place. In the interest of the sease fire and peace talks, I brought the fellow a cup of tea, and commented that we had arrainged the rain that morning, to make him feal at home. We had a great wee talk, and I made it clear I was a life long republican and a friend of Burnadette Devlin McAlisky. He said things to me that I did not agree with, and I felt showed, at least an unconcious prejudice and I am sure I said things that made him uncomfortable. However, the polite exchange of ideas made it possible to shake hands and share some tea. Insulting each other, snearing etc (or sending threating or distructive attachments on email) would have done nothing for progress in Ireland. So to those who say this should not be talked about, I can only ask how can you have progress through silence, and for those who say spam Conrad, I say, how can you have progress through harassment. Let's keep it intelligent folks, and Conrad, in responce, why don't you stop the sloganisms and really think if you wish to support Protestant domination. Is it really a Christian thing to do? Last I looked, Protestantism was a Christian religion, eh? Remember, it is not do unto others what they do, but what you would HAVE them do unto you. Be nice folks Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: barrygeo Date: 12 Jul 00 - 05:37 AM My last word on the matter. You can't oppose intimidation with counter intimidation. I have no problem with marches and parades as long as they are not designed to be intimidatory. Causing hassle to an individual such as Conrad would be wrong. Debate and discussion is the answer!!!! Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Veritas Date: 11 Jul 00 - 10:20 PM McGrath, You've shown too much intelligence in the past to fall prey to this sort of paranoia - "tracking down"??? " Puh-Leeze!! He posted his e-mail address himself! And when is looking someone up in the telephone directory an invasion of privacy? If C. is concerned, he can go Ex-Directory. This is all public record information! Seems despite the lip service to freedom of expression seen in this forum, there are would-be censors just waiting for an opportunity...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: bob jr Date: 11 Jul 00 - 09:38 PM there is a sequel to the book "how the irish saved civilization" its called "how the irish kept killing each other long after it stopped making any sense to the rest of the world". its probably not gonna be a best seller but i am gonna read it....now if they had an "orangeman parade in like florida i could get behind that but i didnt know they had that many oranges in ireland but hey what do i know i am canadian... |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Jul 00 - 09:33 PM Tracking down people like that is not a justifiable way of responding to a thread you don't like. And when done by people who are coming in anonymously, I smell a rat.
I don't like censorship much, but that's the kind of post that needs deleting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,guest Date: 11 Jul 00 - 09:32 PM Wasn't it an English king who started all this Church of England/Protestantism division anyway? In order to get the women he wanted? I should think he's chuckling there in his grave and giving a thumbs up for the poor souls in Ireland who have kept up this ridiculous and tragic circumstance for centuries--a by-product of his lustful whim. I say this English king is still "giving it to" the Irish to this day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST Date: 11 Jul 00 - 08:53 PM Very good, Conrad. You've just busted yourself!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Trevor Date: 11 Jul 00 - 08:17 PM Good on ye, Conrad !! WE ARE THE PEOPLE !!!!!!! He who opposes us is an UNTERMENSCH ! Trevor |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Veritas Date: 11 Jul 00 - 04:45 PM "IF Conrad lives in Baltimore.... OK, chaps, check out who provides his e-mail service: Click
Then look in the Telephone Directory: Click
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: InOBU Date: 11 Jul 00 - 04:12 PM Romper Room, not Rumpus room... |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: InOBU Date: 11 Jul 00 - 04:11 PM Dear I guess: You are right, and as I forgive people their ignorence, I also appologise for indulging my anger. The fact is I have lost friends to Orange terror. I remind those who say both sides are the same of the present threat to kill a Catholic a day until the parades take place. As wrong as killing in war may be, indescriminate killing is worse, weither it is a free fire zone in Viet Nam, or kill a Catholic a day. The fact is the IS a diffrence betwen the loyalist movememnt and Republicanism. And I know the difference having spent time in Belfast in BOTH communities. I know I could talk freely, as an Anglo Irishman, and a protestant about things that would have gotten me killed on the Shankill. Anyone who says the two sides are the same should learn about the Rumpus Room and Campbell and the Shankill Butchers. Yes Forgive, but it is a dangerous thing to forget. To forget what was struggled for, allows injustice and discrimination to continue. We in the US clean up our history through our foolish movies to the point of fostering ignorence. For those who believe Mississippi Burning and Patriot, it is easy to point a wagging finger at Irish Republicans. Forget TV and the movies, read and go and see for your self. We are such a wealthy nation, use some of the money to travel and get educated. But don't stay at the hilton... Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Celtic-End Singer Date: 11 Jul 00 - 03:40 PM I don't like what the Orange Order stands for - I'm an Irish Republican and a Catholic- but people should of course be allowed to march about whatever they want - but two things make the Orange marches different. First of all they are not marches or demonstrations, they are parades. They are not about changing the government or its policies. They are about reminding the subjugated Catholic minority that the forces of Unionist Protestantism trounced them once and that if they get uppity again they'll trounce them again. They are inflammatory and deliberately provocative. Secondly, I can think of no other demonstration or march where the army or police barricade peaceful, law-abiding people in their own homes so that a parade can go past. I can think of no other situation where any counter-demonstration is completely forbidden. Can anyone imagine the Metropolitan Police in London barricading black people in their homes so that the British Nation Party or the Ku Klux Klan could march through Brixton? I thought not. These ignorant, intolerant arsehole bigots should be told to parade through their own areas and stop infringing on the legitmate civil liberties of innocent and peaceful communities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,I guess Date: 11 Jul 00 - 02:50 PM Look, I just don't understand this. When it's so obvious that the guy who started this just wants to cause trouble why are people getting so emotional in tryig to answer him. Couldn't the whole topic have been debated without that kind of title. If he really does live in Baltimore than why is anybody even taking him seriously. Get a life Conrad. This is really sad. g |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Jul 00 - 01:21 PM "I am sure England would love you back" - God, I don't think so! |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: InOBU Date: 11 Jul 00 - 01:09 PM For all the US posters, who say that Irish Republicanism is as "boneheaded" as Loyalist beliefs. Though WE ALL agree the time for armed struggle is over, as England has agreed to talk, if you feel armed struggle against the crown and it's inforced discriminations and deprivations of rights is wrong, I hope you stop pledging alegence to our flag of struggle and independence and REPUBLIC, and give up citizenship to become subjects again. I am sure England would love you back - so amny colonials have thrown off their yoke! Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Ritchie Date: 11 Jul 00 - 10:31 AM Sorry Terry, It was my poke at you re people from the Boro' of course I knew they wern't 'proper Geordies' and that they were from your neck of the woods...damn I missed Vic Reeves & Bob Mortimer, they would n't let it lie.....not like some. Tell you what though check out a book by Harry Pearson called the 'far corner' if you like football that is, it's darza... As for this orange thing I think everyone should paint their faces and wear orange wigs and dance on one leg and should smoke dope and well you know what I mean. you've just been tango'd. regards ritchie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: L R Mole Date: 11 Jul 00 - 10:27 AM Dona nobis pacem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Bagpuss Date: 11 Jul 00 - 10:19 AM I missed the interesting part of the thread!! Geordies (I'm from Gateshead too) and Smoggies, I appeal for unity against our common foe - the Mackem!!! Bagpuss |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Sailor Dan working?? Date: 11 Jul 00 - 10:18 AM Hey guys and gals I have posted to this thread a couple of times in a not to complimentary way to the Orange brigade. Terry in his post above is precisley correct. Both sides are too boneheaded. But it is because of people like the originator of this thread. Barrygeo is basically the voice of the majority of the Irish people, they want peace and quiet also. They do not want to rehash the hurts over again. Years ago I stopped supporting the IRA for the actions they took. Yes I want peace for Eire and one country ruled by themselves. If we keep posting to this thread we will just keep up the hurt and anger that builds and further the cause of the originator. I think we should just let this die and go with the wind. Everyone say a Prayer in their minds in whichever way they worship for Peace not only in Ireland, but for the world. Sailor Dan |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,leon[nospam].sharkey@davy.ie Date: 11 Jul 00 - 10:14 AM Hi, I wonder if Conrad has the lyrics to the Aghalee Heroes. Thanks Leon |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: katlaughing Date: 11 Jul 00 - 10:00 AM I saw it this monring in the newspaper, Alison and immediately thought of you and your family who are there. I am so sorry; I hope you are able to be in touch with them, easily and economically. May all involved come to their senses and stop the madness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: alison Date: 11 Jul 00 - 09:17 AM It saddens me to see this going on at home AGAIN!!.... I have relatives barricaded in their houses... they literally cannot get in or out of their driveway because of road blocks... I saw the centre of Belfast on the news tonight.. looks like a ghost town......... its a damn shame slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: barrygeo Date: 11 Jul 00 - 04:47 AM Folks, for the record. I am probably one of the few posters here actually living in Ireland. I am anti-violence and voted for the PEace Agreement. Conrad's original post was a direct copy/paste from the web site of the Portadown District, Loyal Orange Lodge Number One. This specific group are very anti-peace agreement and have close links with loyalist paramilitaries. They are anti-peace agreement without ever offering an alternative. Conrad is just as misguided as those who support republican violence in IReland. 95% of people in Ireland and 75% of people in Northern Ireland voted for peace. We want a new future not an annual rehash of a painful history. The likes of Conrad who enjoys stoking up outdated religous bigotry must be challenged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 11 Jul 00 - 04:40 AM Bugsy, there's everything wrong with religion, but that doesn't mean I'm defending the denominations. And if Mbo wants to argue that the Pope is a good guy, I think that would need a whole new thread. We could have a look at Pacelli too (Pius Xll), and the little matter of the concordat he signed up to with Hitler. But let's get back to the music threads for a while before we go down that road. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Terry K Date: 11 Jul 00 - 01:25 AM I'm with Andy Green and Ickle Dorritt (and by default, the silent majority), no matter what the historical and political background, what perpetuates the violence is that both sides are as boneheaded as each other. Terry |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU Date: 10 Jul 00 - 09:36 PM Well, I meant the Pope in particular. I don't think John Paul II is a power-hungry. Too old-fashioned on certain issues, yes (like women, and birth control, etc.), but he's basically a good guy, and not out to rule Europe or anything. --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Bugsy Date: 10 Jul 00 - 09:34 PM OK, Before anyone else get it in, that should have been "Ruled" not "ruded". Though it does make some kind of sense. CHeers Bugsy |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Bugsy Date: 10 Jul 00 - 09:30 PM Mbo, You said ."... back in the days when the Church was ruded by power-hungries and political zealots instead of religious men." Boy have I got news for you! It still is! There's nothing wrong with the "Religion", its the "Denominations", that need a good kick in the arse! CHeers Bugsy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Bugsy Date: 10 Jul 00 - 09:30 PM Mbo, You said ."... back in the days when the Church was ruded by power-hungries and political zealots instead of religious men." Boy have I got news for you! It still is! There's nothing wrong with the "Religion", its the "Denominations", that need a good kick in the arse! CHeers Bugsy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU Date: 10 Jul 00 - 09:23 PM The reason the Pope supported William of Orange was because James II was supported by France, and the Pope, still not forgetting then Avignon exile of the past and the political issues of the present, vehemently did not support France, thus siding with her enemies, which of course was Bad Billy. Yet another politically motivated agenda by a Church official back in the days when the Church was ruled by power-hungries and political zealots instead of religious men. It has brought shame upon my religion and I don't like it one bit. I hate politics. --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,, Amused Date: 10 Jul 00 - 09:15 PM Marching down the internet road with massive emails designed to harass the recipient is no different to demanding the freedom to march through Nationalist areas of Drumcree. These are both forms of unwanted message delivery which perform no good other than give perverse thumb-nosing pleasure to the messengers at the expense of the recipients.
Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Peter Kasin Date: 10 Jul 00 - 04:20 PM I'm one of Conrad's many critics here, but please, Mudcatters, no harassing e mails to him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Fiolar Date: 10 Jul 00 - 02:49 PM Interesting thread! A fact no one has mentioned yet and I am sure it would stick in the craw of many a "loyalist." The pope of the day supported William of Orange. It is worth noting also that the first RUC man as well the last RUC man to be killed in the six counties was at the hands of a protestant mob. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Brakn Date: 10 Jul 00 - 02:08 PM Conrad. In your last post, "I do support the rights of the people for justice and their decisions concerning how the goal of fairness civil rights and justice will be pursued." With that sort of talk you'll be thrown out of the Orange Order! Let's get one thing straight here. We should not think of the Orange Order as a solely Protestant organisation. It is an anti-Catholic organisation. If they want to march in support of a Dutch mercenary why didn't they march in Rome last weekend at the gay rally. (William of Orange was famously gay) |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: barrygeo Date: 10 Jul 00 - 01:24 PM Here are some additional reports from the protests held at the specific request of Mr Gracey of Portadown Oreange Lodge Number LOL No.1. "The RUC reported a number of confrontations with protesters. Police and drivers were stoned in the Oldpark and Shore Road areas of Belfast as well as in Newtownabbey. Barricades were set alight on many of the blocked roads around the north and east of the city and there were reports of protests and road-blocks in Lisburn, Cooks town, Dungannon, Carrickfergus and Derry. Scorch damage was caused to the doors of a Catholic church in Carnmoney, on the northern outskirts of Belfast, after a petrolbomb attack. In Larne, Co Antrim, police recovered two fireworks wrapped with nails and an assortment of hand weapons and UDA paraphernalia." Conrad you by association are a supporter of violence. By starting this thread you contributed to putting peoples lives in danger. Barry
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: barrygeo Date: 10 Jul 00 - 01:10 PM The orange order is more unrelated to loyalist paramilitaries than sinn fein is to the IRA. Conrad please note the following report "Mr Johnny Adair the former UFF prisoner and anti-agreement unionist Mr Frazier Agnew were among those who gathered on Drumcree hill last night." From todays newspapers. My facts are straight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: *Conrad Bladey Peasant-Inactive Date: 10 Jul 00 - 01:03 PM The orange order does not support any such thing nor was any connection to the order made. People at large are unhappy with the parades commission. There was no bomb in the first place.... You need to get your facts and terms right. I do not support loyalist paramilitaries. The orange order is more unrelated to loyalist paramilitaries than sinn fein is to the IRA. I do support the rights of the people for justice and their decisions concerning how the goal of fairness civil rights and justice will be pursued. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: barrygeo Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:45 PM Conrad Do you also support the orangemen in this???????? Suspect device destroyed near Parade Commissioner's home Last updated: 16:50
RUC experts have destroyed a suspect object found today near the home of a prominent member of Northern Ireland's independent parades commission. Army disposal officers carried out a controlled explosion on the object which was found in Greyabbey, 15 miles (25 kilometres) east of Belfast, near the residence of Mr Billy Martin who sits on the body that rules on Northern Ireland's controversial parades. The RUC said later that the bomb alert was a hoax. The parades commission has come under fire from Orangemen for ruling that Orange Order parades be re-routed away from nationalist districts.
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Linda Kelly Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:40 PM I also do not usually respond to threads like these, but I like Andy Green was also caught in a bombing in coventry in 1974 and another in London a year later (once is bad enough twice is bloody careless!). I feel sorry for the orange order because they obviously have missed the plot -Don't they get it? We are moving away from the union with devolution, unionism has a limited shelf life -they are most intensely loyal to a Crown that will not exist in ten years time and thank God for it. Frankly unionism is like shifting deckchairs on the titanic -where will they be in a federal Europe ?? Why people can't realise that being orange or green doesn,tchange your life-you get up go to work and watch the same crap on TV wherever you are in the world ....and then you die. Conrad is obviously a sad little man with an incredibly minute -er...brain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Mistress Paisley Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:39 PM Conrad is one of my pupils at the Bondage and Humiliation Fetishes University for Budding Politicians. Please pay no notice to him, for we are only increasing his orgasm by replying to this. Come here Conrad, you know what I do to naughty children |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: barrygeo Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:39 PM It seems I find myself in agreement with David Trimble. Trimble calls on Orangemen to enter talks 13:31 Northern Ireland's First Minister Mr David Trimble today added his voice to calls for Orangemen to enter into dialogue. He said negotiation and not violence was the only way to resolve Drumcree. Mr Trimble said the only difference between the loyal order in Portadown and the government-appointed Parades Commission concerned sequencing and timing. For more www.ireland.com Barry
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:24 PM Always remember, when someone you don't know suggests you do something stupid, there's such as thing an agent provocateur... And I think we've got one here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: L R Mole Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:12 PM As Jimmy Breslin once wrote,"For a little island,it has caused so much pain." |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Frank McGrath Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:07 PM Well said Harlow McGrath Particularly on the point of email harassment. Marching down the internet road with massive emails designed to harass the recipient is no different to demanding the freedom to march through Nationalist areas of Drumcree. These are both forms of unwanted message delivery which perform no good other than give perverse thumb-nosing pleasure to the messengers at the expense of the recipients. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: barrygeo Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:06 PM Conrad Has it not dawned on the Orange brethern that the scenes in Drumcree can only reflect badly on themselves. Drumcree could be resolved if the brethern would enter negotioations with the lcal community. This method has successfully resolved most traditional routes. The reason given for not enterring negotiations is because Brendain O'Cionnaith is a former convicted terrorist yet the Brethern freely use Johnny Adair also a convicted terrorist to organise protests. How can Loyalists be considered sincere when they refuse to consider reform of the RUC on one day and throw petrol bombs at them the next. Only by building links at local community level will resolve the Drumcree situation. The inflammatory rhetoric of the likes of you and those who post against you can only make things worse. For those of you who dont live in Northern Ireland aggravation of this situation may cause deaths. Think first!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Andy Green Date: 10 Jul 00 - 11:11 AM As someome who narrowly missed being blown up by the IRA, (three minutes later into the pub in birmingham in 1974) I find the bigotted behaviour of the Irish difficult to empathise with. But I believe in free speech etc and if thats the way they want to be - so be it. The Orange men are so fixed in their opinions, we can only hope the next generation are better educated. But don't hold your breath. Usually when I see threads like this I avoid them. I find it annoying hearing all those who sympathise with the IRA. How outraged were you when that Office building in Oklahoma was blown up over a year ago, or when some idiot shoots up a school - its the same for ordinary people all over england and Ireland - there is no political justification and its a bloody shame that most of the money for the ammunition and training comes from the good old US of A I'm ranting, I know, no apologies though. Andy |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: GUEST,Amused Date: 10 Jul 00 - 10:47 AM I should have thought that Conrad would be the first to spring to my defense for exercicing the U.S. constitutional right of free speech!!which includes the right to send mail to anyone who voluntarily provides their address on-line. And I should also think that the choice not to reveal a "true identity" as also a right supported on this forum, or only members would be permitted to post: should you wish that to be the case, Max can easily do it- otherwise, please dont continue to whinge about it! For that matter, how, exactly, do we KNOW that is Conrad's "true identity", or anyone elses for that matter? Have background checks been done? As far as cowardice is concerned, Conrad's encouragement of mayhem from across the Atlantic seems a bit more craven then him being called, and rightfully so, a fuckwit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SING A LONG NO SURRENDER From: Bagpuss Date: 10 Jul 00 - 06:43 AM Haven't had time to read all of this, but I would just like to put my twopennorth in. I am a catholic (of sorts) and I have no objection to Orange marches. And nobody is asking them to stop marching - just to stop marching in predominantly Catholic areas. OK, so some routes are traditional, but it wouldn't hurt to change them a bit if it means a peaceful march. When the Orange order keep demanding the right to walk down particular streets it just shows everyone that the real reason for the parades is not tradition, but bigotry and intimidation. I would love for the Orange order to prove me wrong and change their routes. Bagpuss |
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