Learning from others' mistakes

Subject: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Marion
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 01:02 PM

OK, I played violin in church yesterday - descants for a few congregational hymns, and a solo for the offertory. The organ was an old pump organ used once a year; it was reasonably in tune with itself, but nowhere near concert pitch.

So I matched my E, A, and D strings to the pump organ, but I didn't bother adjusting my G string because I wasn't planning to use it for anything that day and we were running low on time.

Then when I did my solo, which was in G, I was quite dissatisfied with it. My intonation seemed to be OK, but the sound just had no richness to it - it was especially noticeable when I played the G on the D string (often) - it just sounded empty somehow, though it had sounded great when I was practicing.

I realized later that the problem was that I hadn't retuned my G string. Because it wasn't the correct interval below my D string, it had no sympathy with what I was playing, and it really did make a big difference to the sound.

String players, learn from my mistake: tune all your strings before playing, even if you know you aren't going to use one of them.

It's such a simple thing in retrospect, but I missed it, so I offer the story here in the hopes that someone will profit from it.

Anyone else have a cautionary example to share?

Marion

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Catrin
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 01:16 PM

"I'll know my song well before I start singin'"

Bob Dylan.

The reason why I say that is because I have learnt, to my cost - and everybody elses, that unless I know the song inside out, I am likely to get all sorts of things wrong - even with the words in front of me.

I am not a particularly naturally brill singer BUT if I know the song well enough, I can quiet the room.

There has been a dead interesting thread on this with people talking about the difference between 'knowing' and 'having' a song, and about different people having different strategies to increase the chances of doing a good performance.

Interesting stuff - learning is what life is about, and the lessons we learn from our own mistakes are the ones that are, probably, learnt the best.

Catrin

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 01:26 PM

Thread creep alert - I am reminded of (surprise, surprise) the Star Trek episode in which a second Captain Picard appears in a duplicate shuttle, apparently traveling backwards through time from when the Enterprise is destroyed in an explosion. They are trying to figure out how the explosion happens/will happen, so they can avoid it - or in the immortal words of Captain Picard (the real one) Let's not make the same mistake once!

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 02:14 PM

Print your set lists in type that is large enough to read when you're onstage. Someone else mentioned this in another thread, and it resonated with me, because I had recently made the mistake of printing them too small; they were fine when I was sitting in my office looking at them, but under stage lights when the set list had to be placed in an inconspicuous spot, they were so small as to be useless -- for me and everyone else in the band.

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Les B
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 02:43 PM

This isn't that serious a mistake, but one that can creep up on you. Our little group was playing in an open courtyard from eleven to noon, and we had placed ourselves in the shade of an old wall, noting that by the time the set was over we'd have our back against the wall to avoid the very hot sun as it crept to its zenith (since the heat torques the strings out of tune).

Sure enough, our lady singer, who plays guitar and dobro, left her steel dobro bar sit in the sun for about 15 minutes. When she picked it up to play she nearly burnt her hand. In commenting about her discomfort in front of the fairly straight-laced audience, I unwittingly uttered, "Well, Tammi, you'd better take that bar and put it where the sun don't shine !" Only as the words left my lips did I realize the other implication. I guess the lesson is to think twice, say once.

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: campfire
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 04:11 PM

Sorry, Marion, but I can't help giggling about adjusting a G-string in church ;-)

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Mbo
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 04:40 PM

Ah yes, Mrrz, that was the second-season episode "Time Squared". With the imfamous scene where Picard is yelling at his his double. This is what spawned the "Wake up, you little patella-head!" joke in our family...

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Allan C.
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 05:05 PM

I recall being so nervous on stage that I could not get my trembling hand to undo the button on my shirt pocket to get my capo out for the next song. I felt as if everyone could see my problem and the chuckling and/or laughing out loud would surely begin. Fortunately, my singing partner had added a few extra words to the introduction of the next song. That was all the time I needed.

After the show was over someone remarked as to our "wonderful stage presence". So I guess I was the only one who knew how nervous I was after all.

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: DougR
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 06:12 PM

Campfire: that one got by me. Went right over my head! Thanks for pointing it out. That IS funny. DougR

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 06:18 PM

I had a snigger about that too - G strings in church!!! And accompanying the organ as well!!

We have that problem - the keyboard is not in tune with the organ, but you can adjust the keyboard. The guitar is never in tune. It gets tuned to the keyboard. The organ starts a tune, the guitar joins in.... yup, you're way ahead of me here..... hideous din that has my teeth on edge, my buttocks clenching (and that's a lot of buttocks....) and my eyes watering. And that is before the congregation start singing!!

LTS

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 07:16 PM

And I can't help giggling about Les B. Our guitar player breaks G-strings on a regular basis, it's an old joke to us..........remeember, never, NEVER, NEVER set your instrument on a chair, table, etc. Don't ask why. The answer is BECAUSE!!

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Marion
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 12:27 PM

Oh yes, the Law of Horizontal Surfaces! My fiddle mentor taught me that one:

"If you get into the habit of laying your fiddle on horizontal surfaces, eventually you WILL sit on it."

Marion

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 08:57 AM

I also learn't from bitter personal experience that its not a good idea to put your penny whistle (or the last surviving noseflute in the UK) in your back jeans pocket while you finish your set with an unnacompanied shanty!

although the flat penny whistle with the 90 degree curve does make a good intro piece to replace a leppington!

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 01:58 PM

In my time playing guitar, I have made several: 1- Never leave the guitar home and call your spouse to retrieve it for you so you don't disappoint your pards. (My wife was most gracious and brought it but boy was I embarrased) 2- An electronic tuner can help if you're just starting out. It'll save the cost of a set of strings. 3- If you forget the words two statements won't help: "Why did you let me do that?" and "I didn't like that verse anyway." You can justifiably claim you have CRS (Can't remember s**t) Or state that you're glad to be back on earth after alien abuduction and you hope they removed the probe. It wopn't help you remember the lyrics but you'll probably get a laugh and that will lessen the stage fright etc. 4- It helps to carry extra strings!!! Busted one, didn't have it, show over. I hate when that happens. Hope it helps and you all have a giood chickle, Kindest reguards, Neil

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: MichaelM
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 03:21 PM

To add to the large set list discovery: Don't write your set-list out in red pen or marker. Most stage-lights are red or orange to give you that nice warm glow and you will find yourself staring down at a completely washed-out set list.

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 03:43 PM

One of the places I've played had a mike stand, and I counted on it being there 'cause I hated borrowing one for gigs. When that fateful day arrived... someone took it home after leaving it for two years... I managed to construct one out of driftwood duct-taped to a chair. The people commented, but kindly, and all would have gone fine if it hadn't started sagging mid song... As the evening went on, fewer and fewer songs were interrupted and/or compromised by my invention...

I bought a stand the next week.

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 03:47 PM

Never offer to carry the SO's instruments unless they fit in a handbag or shoulder bag. You wouldn't believe how heavy some of those melodeons get!! Teach them the mouth organ or the kazoo or comb and paper, but NEVER let them think you are just another roadie.....

LTS - who spent an awful long time carrying a guitar case around for someone......

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 12:17 PM

Chorus
She was just another Roadie with an arm
But she proved to be so useful on the farm
When'er I walked down that long road, She toted most my load
But she was just another Roadie with an arm.
country beat
parody

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Grab
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 03:14 PM

If you know the song already, and you're playing with someone who doesn't and is reading off a songsheet, remember Cliffhanger - "Don't look down". If you're as daft as I am, chances are you'll get hung up following the songsheet exactly, instead of following how you know the song goes. This applies particularly where there's choruses, and the choruses aren't marked on the sheet between verses, cos everyone knows they're there...

Grab.

Subject: RE: Learning from others' mistakes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 03:30 PM

OOOOOhh,. that works in church too - especially when doing something that was learned by ear first.... we discovered that we'd been singing something wrong for years, took ages to relearn it and then the composer went and rewrote it as the learned version, because as he said, that's the way everyone sings it anyway. It also goes the other way, learned a song from a book, sang it in front of the author, only to have him say 'that isn't what I wrote'. We showed him the score and he realised that it had been printed wrongly all along!!

LTS