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Orange song sound files on line
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Quincy Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:49 AM You're dead right Philippa! There are Loyalist's songs and Loyalist's songs...just the same as with nationalists and there is nothing whatsoever to be ashamed of in celebrating our heritage. Unfortunately, what sometimes starts with 'parodies' of songs can turn them into descriminatory and nasty.....as you say 'the rallying songs' I'm a Prod myself from a Belfast family and would no more want to sing about being 'up to my neck in Fenian blood' (Billy Boys) than I would sing rebel songs! I'm very proud of my heritage but I'm no fan of violence or the encouragement of it. I know the songs from both sides and have been at 'gatherings' where the singing of songs has led to people on the same side fighting with each other!!!! It's the alcohol content that had the biggest influence!! As for the 'tune' side of things....the truth is that if anyone stands in Belfast on the 12th of July or on the 15th of August for the Hibernians, the flute and accordian bands will be playing pretty much the same songs anyway cos it's only the words to them that are different!!!! best wishes, Yvonne |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 03 Sep 00 - 06:47 AM Now that you've nicely turned this thread into chat about oor charming wee Ulster, do you mind if I turn it back round again? It seems to me that Michael's reason for giving the odious links was misinterpreted. I think it was meant to be a comment on Conrad's links, that Michael thinks they are of the same ilk. He was trying to use a more oblique approach than Catspaw! Personally, I find the white supremicist links more offensive than the Orange ones. I looked up Michael's other contributions to the Cat and they are straight forward music. And I was surprised to hear that Conrad Bladey is a well known flamer, as I am familiar with his name as the contributor of countless Geordie lyrics to Mudcat. I tend to look at and participate in lyric threads more than in discussions and I don't have personal knowledge of Conrad's reputed darker side. I tried clicking on *Conrad Bladey # 1Peasant* in this thread and strangely got a notice that no records match this criteria. I don't quite agree with Annroi's comparison. There are Loyalist songs and Loyalist songs, but most of them would be closer to the rallying type of Irish Nationalist songs such as The Boys of the Old Brigade or Follow Me Up to Carlow than to Bonny Kells Water. for lots of Loyalist lyrics see the Ulster Orange Loyalist Songbook For an essay with songs, see < a href=http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/DeptInfo/Staff/DGC/celtmus.htm>Celtic Minstrels and Orange Songsters by David Cooper (University of Leeds) also do a Mudcat forum search for "Loyalist" |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Lepus Rex Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:19 AM Bud, my grandma spoke the French dialect you're talking about as her first language. Then she went to a French-Catholic school, and had to learn both Euro-French and English. (And was made to be ashamed of, and to deny, her Canadian heritage) Some time, I'd really like to learn French the way it's spoken over there in Quebec. Creep, creepy thread, creep! ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Sep 00 - 10:37 PM Well yum yum, I turn 40 on Wednesday so I will drink your health then although I think I will be going down the Scotch rather than the Irish route for my whisky and it will probably be a glass of Lagavulin - my favourite of all the whisk(e)ys I have ever tried. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,yum yum Date: 02 Sep 00 - 10:08 PM Thanks Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Sep 00 - 09:45 PM Well yum yum, if you have had a bottle of Black Bush (or other Bushmills), I will forgive you everthything except not sharing it with me ;-) Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,yum yum Date: 02 Sep 00 - 09:39 PM Sorry folks, I think I have seen the best of this bottle of Bush. Good night. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,yum yum Date: 02 Sep 00 - 09:36 PM Jon well sus'ed out! conrad is a folkie, he in my opinion was not out to start a row! Irish trad' ballads covers the whole spectrum, if we are to consider ourselves trad' folkies (whatever label you wish to place upon yourselves) it is all part of our past, no matter what way we look at our history. We can't change the past, we can live with it! Ballads tell us how others see history (looking back) as they see it.(from all angles) Irish Traditional music is LIVING MUSIC (so accept it and carry on) We can however form the future, by using the past as a yard stick.We can only get better. But what a past! The Irish have been abused by all ( most of all by our- selves )Do we not have the 'greatest'(for want of a better word) music in the world! come on, lets not fall out over something we cant change, by forming an alliance through music we can rise above the past. SHIT !!! I cant believe I've just written that. I have a black-bush just set in front of me, so Goodnight folkies, it's my birthday tomorrow ( so- folk u-all} Conrad I dont know your past, but I will be watching out for you in the future. You have the benefit of the doubt! SLAN yum yum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:34 PM Oops - sorry Fionn and I do know you are a male. I live in Wales and am used to spelling it the Welsh female way! Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Noreen Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:29 PM You see, Fionn, (and Mick), Jon made the same mistake- glad it's not just me! Ffion = welsh female name Fionn = not! Noreen |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:09 PM Ffion, I think that one of the beauties of the Mudcat is that there are a number of people quite capable of rising above the crap and they can turn nasty threads in to fun threads, or sensible discussions. I doubt seeing where this thread has gone would make any difference to Conrad. As spaw said, he is an experienced troller and I would go as far as suggest a master at his "craft". I am pretty sure that while people take his bait (and there will always be newcomers who don't know him), he will carry on regardless. BTW, I did not state my viewpoint regarding the Orange songs earlier but I am in complete agreement with Mick. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 02 Sep 00 - 06:06 PM Fib, you'll have to turn in a post-hike report after all this. I half hope Conrad might come back to see where we went with his thread.*BG* |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Sep 00 - 04:36 PM Sorry Mick - I'll learn to read one day! Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Sep 00 - 03:34 PM Mick, I don't understand these things but I sometimes use http://www.yourdictionary.com/. They group Manx with Irish and Scots Gaelic in the subgroup Goidelic languages rather than grouping them with Welsh and Breton which they call Brythonic languages. Unfortunately, the site does not offer a Cornish dictionary. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Bud Savoie Date: 02 Sep 00 - 12:47 PM I know the feeling. I can speak Montrealese French, which is a type of patois nearly undecipherable to people who know European French. My 17-year-old dauaghter has just ensconced herself at McGill University in Montreal, where she is doing just what you mentioned: immersing herself in the language and culture. I often think that regional dialects are more interesting than the "standard" forms of languages. Hey, what happened to the Orange content of this thread? |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Big Mick Date: 02 Sep 00 - 12:11 PM Well, Bud, that depends on which Gaelic language you refer to. The Irish language is known in English as simply "Irish". In Irish it is Gaeilge, which accounts for the confusion. Gaelic is a family of languages which includes Irish, Scots Gaelic (the only one in which it is proper to use the term Gaelic) and Manx. The other family of Celtic languages includes Welsh, Breton, and Cornish. Manx and Cornish, in their respective branches, are said to be extinct in that there are no communities that use them as their first language. But there are people in each of those area who are determined not to let the languages die. The thing I love about the language and dialects of my people is that it has so many more shades than English, especially as it is spoken in the US. It lends an incredible depth to the language. But it does make it difficult to study, especially with no other speakers about. I have always felt that if I became independently wealthy (fat chance for a union organizer/civil activist) I would pack up and move to one of the Gaeltacht areas so that I could immerse myself and resurrect the lost language skills of my youth. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Bud Savoie Date: 02 Sep 00 - 11:08 AM OK Mick here goes: shulaylee. Right? Maybe it's my Ne England accent getting in the way. By the way, my Irish and Scots friends tell me that Gaelic is an extremely difficult language to master, although I think it is one of the most beautiful I have heard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Big Mick Date: 02 Sep 00 - 11:00 AM I don't get all the confusion on Fionn's name. Of course he is a he. What the hell else would he be with a name like Fionn???...........................LOL. And Bud, what the heck's your problem with spelling shillelagh? Just sound it out. hahaha Great to see a potentially bad thread lift itself up like this. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,Unk Met-Det Date: 02 Sep 00 - 08:05 AM Hi Fib |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Den Date: 01 Sep 00 - 07:10 PM Thank you Noreen, I knew I shouldn't have put that "s" in there. Ohh God girl you're right. Just for an evenings stroll between the Point and Ballykeel. Den |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Noreen Date: 01 Sep 00 - 07:00 PM The ascent of a thread to the decent! Good one Den- it's like a nice chat between friends, the trouble makers give up after a while. I'd love to be on the Mourne shore now...... Noreen |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Den Date: 01 Sep 00 - 06:50 PM I don't know Fionn I've done the Newcastle to Ballymartin (12 miles) many a time and under the weight of more than a pint or two, but back then there was always the after glow from the daliance with a pretty girl, ahhh youth, gone are the days. Anyway another 15 miles will bring you to beautiful Rostrevor. I wouldn't recommend cutting through the mountains thats a rather round about way. My name is carved into the granite in the windy gap by the way as is my mothers (her idea). Anyone notice how this thread has taken a turn towards the descent (sp). You see theres a whole other side to NI. Den |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Amergin Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:54 PM Fionn, I always thought you're name had to do with Fionn Mac Cumhail of the Fianna... |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:58 PM Rostrevor to Newcastle...via Ballymartin. Now that would be a decent day's walking, Fibula! Will you follow the wall to Windy Gap, or go the long way round along that marked route? Anyway, good luck - it'll be tough enough even without that Ballymartin detour. Bud (or is it Buddleia?) You're not the first to have voiced a doubt,arising from that nickname I foolishly gave myself. But getting back to the thread, yes I think you misunderstood. No problem. Thanks for explaining, Big Mick. Looks like that pint's on me. Peter Kirker (AKA Fionn for reasons long since lost in the Celtic mists) |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,Den at work Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:21 PM Don't think so Sinsull. Ballymartin is in the north of Ireland in south Co.Down about 30 miles from Belfast. The Quiet man was set in the Republic of Ireland. Den |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: SINSULL Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:03 PM I have heard of Ballymartin. Isn't it mentioned in the "Quiet Man"? Or in.... somebody help me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,Den at work Date: 01 Sep 00 - 01:22 PM You must be an adventurer Fibula to have heard of Ballymartin let alone have an ex beau ;-). What was his name if you can tell. Den |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock Date: 01 Sep 00 - 08:25 AM Ballymartin! BALLYMARTIN! Massive thread creep, sorry. It's a small world... I used to go out with a fella from Ballymartin (I'm from a hole-in-the-hedge in County Down too) and although I'm still good mates with him I haven't been there in a while. Mind you, I'm off hiking across the Mournes tomorrow, from Rostrevor to Newcastle, so I might get a wee trip to Ballymartin yet. Thread creep ends! |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Bud Savoie Date: 01 Sep 00 - 07:41 AM Spaw, spirited debate is not just acceptable--it's the life and spirit of Mudcat. I love the give-and-take and merciless needling, as long as it is done in the spirit of fun. Conrad and those of his ilk are not a whole lot of fun. And I apologize to Fionn if I misunderstood him (or is it "Fionna"?). I like Irish people of both colors, as long as they leave their shelelieghs [sp? Why can't the Irish spell things the way they're pronounced?] at home. And finally, that Ballymartin Orange pipe band is a bunch of idiots with no music in their souls. How many great jams would never have taken place if no one would jam with people of the "wrong" religion? Bud |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Aug 00 - 11:00 PM Folks, don't misunderstand....Jacking with Conrad is no big deal...He's a jerk and most see that. He's well known around at other places. He will only leave when he feels like leaving.....He's not susceptible to shunning or the like. He's an experienced troll. In his case, do whatever because he won't care. However....As to discussions of NI, they are a part of this place and as Mick said, spirited debate is always acceptable.....but in the end, let's try to remain friends and agree to disagree while we all hope for peace in a place where there has been very little. Let's all leave as the friends we are and as we began. Except for Conrad who's just around......and a bigot. To hell with him. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Den Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:37 PM Heres a recent story and its true incidently. In the little village where I was born in Northern Ireland the local people, in light of the peace process and hope for better days to come, decided that there should be a day to honour their village, the place where they all grew up and the home to generations of their families. Ballymartin is the name of the place by the way at the foot of the Mourne mountains. Anyway a committee was struck, comprising members of all religions, and they decided to have a parade and a village feit. Saint Joseph's pipe band was invited to play in the parade which they agreed to do and in order to keep things even the committee approached the local Orange Order to see if their flute band would parade aswell. They declined the offer to parade with a catholic band. Now it seems to me that in Drumcree the Orange Order were prepared to do anything in order to parade along a road. Now here were the good folks of Ballymartin giving them the chance and they turn it down. Its a funny old world. Den |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: DougR Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:34 PM No, Fionn, my only objection was your pairing me with Conrad. Happy to sing with anyone anytime. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Big Mick Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:13 PM Listen, my friends. There is no need for this thread to descend to where it seems to be headed. And Bud, I don't believe that Fionn is picking up the "Orange Ball". I took his post to simply mean that there is more than enough in either sides religious leaders to make some arguments about hypocrisy. The simple fact is that this isn't about religion. It is about hypocrisy, civil rights, and economics. Let us ignore this lad, as he seeks to fan the flames of division. The more we respond to him, in any way that gives him credibility, the more we validate him in his own mind. Let us respond to one another in a civil way, and ignore those whose motives are clearly to sow seeds of division. A spirited debate is one of the things that this place is about. Flaming and namecalling is not. All the best, Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Bud Savoie Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:51 PM I must agree with Big Mick that Orange songs are part of the history of Ireland, and an attempt to suppress them is an attempt to rewrite history. But they cover no one with glory, and presenting them in a setting of approbation is pretty awful. Just as awful as Fionn picking up the Orange ball and running with it. My 25-year marriage is a mixed one; and it has lasted this long in part because we can rib and josh each other about religion as well as other topics, but never with venom or hatred and never to hurt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:53 PM Sorry about all that emphasis - not convinced it was entirely my fault this time! |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:50 PM I wasn't suggesting I wouldn't sing with you Doug, far from it - just addressing that aside to you.*BG* Or have I misunderstood your post? Thanks for your interest Michael, and yes, I think I can oblige. Writing in the Protestant Telegraph in early 1972, Dr Paisley observed that the recent conversion of the child killer Myra Hindley to catholicism (his mistake - she had in fact refound that faith) would come as no surprise to decent Prods, as she was now among evil scum of her own ilk. Or words to that effect. Of course, there are many examples I could have chosen, but this one stands out for its grotesque bigotry towards not only fellow Christians, but also Myra Hindley, who in my view is not unequivocally - and certainly not irredeemably - evil. Big Ian, by the way, runs a little church he founded with his dad. He'd be flattered to know you rank him up there with the pope! |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: GUEST,Michael Date: 31 Aug 00 - 06:38 PM That's the way, Fionn!! KICK THAT POPE! Want to give him another shot? Feel better?? Now will you favor us with some anecdotes of the numerous horrors perpetrated by proponents of the Protestant faith? Possibly some spiritually uplifting quotations from the Rev.[sic] Ian Paisley? |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: DougR Date: 31 Aug 00 - 06:31 PM Gee Fionn, sorry you feel that way. I wouldn't mind singing with you! I sure hate to be linked with Conrad though. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 31 Aug 00 - 02:48 PM On the subject of all singing together (but perhaps not me with Conrad, DougR) which pope said : "Ecumenicalism is the meeting house of heresy"? Which said: "Error has no rights" ("error" of course being as defined by the pope)? Which did a deal with Hitler? Yes,I'm afraid there is more bigotry in the Catholic church than in the site indicated above. There IS prod/loyalist bigotry too of course, tons of it. It's easy enough to find, so I won't bother giving links. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: LR Mole Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:04 AM Thanks, Spaw. Not even tempted to click, but even amusing souls (perhaps especially amusing souls) ought to note when some things are not only not funny, but beneath contempt. Perhaps C.B. might be persuaded to yell "Fire" in a crowded barracks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Amergin Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:37 AM Sorry, Sinsull, but Guest Michael's point was that Pissant has as much Hatred and Bigotry as those idiots in the Aryan Nations. A bit of a thread creep here, but those of us from the Inland Empire do not like the outsiders who have come into our neck of the woods to house their venomous seed. Yes, there is racial prejudice up there, I do not deny that, but prejudice and Hatred are two very different things. One of them (prejudice) is a product of one's environment and the other (Hatred) is a product of insecurity of oneself among other things. Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: JedMarum Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:36 AM Like Bud Savoie said earlier, I wondered to myself when I saw this thread, "how could I have been here for a year and never run into this Conrad character before?" I have never seen anyone inspire such a strong response from Spaw (I even wondered,at first if it was the real Spaw). I understand that the general feeling is that this is a hatemonger, and I accept that that may well be the truth, but I'll take a look at the links anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: SINSULL Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:27 AM Guest Michael, I perused the sites you listed and did not find any folk music/blues information appropriate to Mudcat. Conrad's site did provide lyrics and background on them. His intentions are another matter. As are yours. And I guess mine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Snuffy Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:01 AM Bud On every Message posted the person's name is a clickable link. If you click on the name you will see all their postings. I clicked on you and saw 111 postings going back to this one 111 Bud Savoie RE: Help: Fine Senorita 26-Feb-00 - 08:38 PM Wassail! V |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Big Mick Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:57 AM BUD all you have to do is find one of his thread posts and click on his name in the header. This activates the forum search by name. Wait a few minutes and VOILA, there will be all his posts. You will soon discover why he is known on lists all over the internet for his flaming. And for what it is worth, I believe the Orange songs and music are an important part of the history of Ireland. They should, and must, be preserved. But the sites that this sorry wee man links to aren't about preservation of the music. They are about spreading hatred and bigotry. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Amergin Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:29 AM Just type in the supersearch box "orange order" or "orangemen" and you are sure to come up with his past flaming activities. Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Bud Savoie Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:54 AM I understand that there is a way for 'Catters to punch up someone's past posts. The tenor of this thread has piqued my curiousity about Conradian history. Anyone know how I can get his past contributions? |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Amergin Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:50 AM The #1 Pissant has as much of a right to post his views here (no matter how much me or anyone else dislikes it) as much as anyone else here, even if his arguments are asinine.....Here's better link started, about half a year ago, here on the 'Cat:click here Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: Bud Savoie Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:41 AM The site doesn't just preserve the songs for historical reasons. It spews Orange hatred and shows us how the young are being educated by the Junior Lodges in this kind of thought. I like to think that someday songs like these will be as interesting as Civil War and Revolutionary War songs are to me now, and for the same reasons. Anybody know anything about Conrad except for his dislikes? |
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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE From: sledge Date: 31 Aug 00 - 04:17 AM Conrads material "harmless", I don't think so. The people that have so killed at least three people and put an 11 year old child in hospital with a bullet in her back subscribe to the same loyalist ethic. I wonder how the prick would feel if some of his so called friends sprayed his family home with machine gun fire. If there is a need to preserve these songs then let it be done in such a way that they have to be dug for by those with an interest, not waved in peoples faces in as many ways as possible so that any fuckwit can latch onto them. |
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