Subject: Lyr Add: LORD BEICHAN AND SUSIE PYE From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 31 Aug 00 - 06:19 PM LORD BEICHAN AND SUSIE PYE
In London city was Beichan born,
For through his shoulder he put a bore,
He's casten him in a dungeon deep,
O this moor he had but ae daughter
"O hae ye any lands or rents
"O London city is my own,
O she has bribed her father's men
She's gi'n him a loaf o' the good white bread,
"Go set your foot on good ship board,
It was long or seven years had an end
She's sailed up, so has she down,
"Is this Young Beichan's gates?" says she,
"O has he te'an a bonny bride,
But she's pitten her hand in her pocket,
O when the porter came up the stair,
"O, I've been porter at your gates
"For on every finger she has a ring,
Then up it started Young Beichan,
O quickly ran he down the stair,
"O hae you ta'en a bonny bride?
She's lookit o'er her left shoulder
"take back your daughter, madam," he says,
He's ta'en his bonny love by the hand,
"English Literature", American Book Company, 1935 |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:29 PM Child ballad #53, "Young Beichan". That above is Child's A text, from the Jamieson-Brown MS. Bronson's 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads' has 115 tunes, most with texts. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:18 PM Here are a few cross-references: On the DT: Lord Bateman Text as recorded by some band called "Golden Ring" (no original source given), tune from Cecil Sharp's 100 English Folksongs (1916) Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From Ancient Scottish Ballads, (Kinloch; no date given) with tune. The Turkish Lady From Songs the Whalemen Sang, (Huntington; no date given), with tune. Not really related. In the Forum: Lord Bateman query Some discussion of the (supposed) historical background. Entries at The Traditional Ballad Index: : Young Beichan The Turkish Lady [Laws O26] At Lesley Nelson's Child Ballads site: Lord Bateman Version from Cecil Sharp's 100 English Folksongs, with tune. Collected by Sharp from Henry Larcombe (82) at Haselbury Plucknett, Somerset, in 1905. There are a large number of broadside versions at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads: too numerous to mention at this time of night. May be found by searching for Lord Bateman and Lord Beigham. Any chance of a tune belonging to the text you've posted? Malcolm Traditional Ballad Index Entry added by Joe Offer: Young Beichan [Child 53]DESCRIPTION: A young lord is taken prisoner by a foreign king. The king's daughter frees him after receiving a promise that he will wed her in seven years. Seven years later she comes to England to see him being married. When he sees her, he marries her insteadAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1783 (Jamieson-Brown) KEYWORDS: wedding marriage promise courting prison escape FOUND IN: Britain(Scotland,England) US(Ap,MW,NE,NW,SE,So) Canada(Mar,Newf)Ireland REFERENCES (40 citations): Child 53, "Young Beichan" (14 texts, 1 tune) {Bronson's #94} Bronson 53, "Young Beichan" (113 versions plus 9 in addenda) BarryEckstormSmyth pp. 106-122, "Lord Bateman" (5 texts, all very full, 2 tunes) {Bronson's #8, #87} Randolph 11, "Lord Bateman" (4 texts plus a fragment, 3 tunes) {A=Bronson's #3, C=#44, E=#7} Randolph/Cohen, pp. 25-28, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 11E) {Bronson's #7} Eddy 10, "Young Beichan" (1 text) Gardner/Chickering 49, "Lord Bateman's Castle" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #80} Flanders/Brown, pp. 204-208, "Lord Bakeman" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #11} Flanders/Olney, pp. 54-57, "Lord Bakeman" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #1} Davis-Ballads 12, "Young Beichan" (7 texts plus 2 fragments; the fragments, especially "I," might perhaps be "The Turkish Lady"; 2 tunes entitled "Lord Bateman and the Turkish Lady, or The Turkish Lady," "The Turkish Lady"; 3 more versions mentioned in Appendix A) {Bronson's #55, #47} Davis-More 16, pp. 102-110, "Young Beichan" (3 texts, 2 tunes) BrownII 14, "Young Beichan" (5 texts plus mention of 1 more) Chappell-FSRA 7, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #35} Hudson 8, pp. 75-76, "Young Beichan" (1 text) Creighton/Senior, pp. 26-34, "Young Beichan" (4 texts plus 1 fragment, 3 tunes) {Bronson's #64, #3, #13} Greenleaf/Mansfield 7, "Lord Ateman" (1 text) Leach, pp. 169-174, "Young Beichan" (2 texts) Wyman-Brockway I, p. 58, "Lord Batesman, or the Turkish Lady" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #98} Friedman, p. 128, "Young Beichan (Lord Bateman)" (1 text) OBB 44, "Young Bekie"; 45, "Young Beichan"; 164, "The Loving Ballad of Lord Bateman" (3 texts) Warner 43, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune) Sharp-100E 6, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune) Niles 22, "Young Beichan" (1 text, 1 tune) Gummere, pp. 256-259+356-357, "Young Beichan" (1 text) Sharp/Karpeles-80E 10, "Lord Bateman (Young Beichan)" (1 text, 1 tune, slightly edited) {Bronson's #14} Copper-SoBreeze, pp. 276-277, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune) Ritchie-SingFam, pp. 100-102, "[Turkish Lady]" (1 text, 1 tune) Hodgart, p. 41, "Young Beichan (Lord Bateman)" (1 text) DBuchan 7, "Young Bicham"; 8, "Young Bekie" (2 texts, 1 tune in appendix) {Bronson's #112} MacSeegTrav 8, "Young Beichan" (2 texts, 2 tunes) TBB 2, "Young Beichan" (1 text) HarvClass-EP1, pp. 84-86, "Young Bicham" (1 text) Abrahams/Foss, pp. 101-103, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune) SHenry H470, p. 491, "Lord Beichan" (1 text, 1 tune) LPound-ABS, 14, pp. 33-36, "Lord Bayham" (1 text) JHCox 8, "Young Beichan" (3 text plus mention of 1 more) JHCoxIIA, #7A-C, pp. 22-31, "A Turkish Lady," "Turkish Lady," "Lord Wetram" (3 texts, 3 tunes) {Bronson's #54, #53, #93} Darling-NAS, pp. 67-69, "Lord Bateman" (1 text) Silber-FSWB, p. 212, "Lord Bateman" (1 text) DT 53, LORDBATE* LRDBEICH* (The DT editors also list TURKLADY* as Child 53, but it belongs with Laws O26) Roud #40 RECORDINGS: Ollie Gilbert, "Lord Batesman" (on LomaxCD1707) Aunt Molly Jackson, "Lord Bateman" (AFS; on LC57) Willie Mathieson, "The King's Daughter" (on FSBBAL1) Pleaz Mobley, "Lord Bateman" (AFS L 12, 1937; on LC12) {Bronson's #97} Thomas Moran, "Lord Bateman" (on FSB4, FSBBAL1) New Lost City Ramblers, "Lord Bateman" (on NLCR14) Balis Ritchie, "Lord Bateman and the Turkish Lady" (on Ritchie03) Jean Ritchie, "Lord Bateman" (on JRitchie01) Jeannie Robertson, "Lord Bateman" (on FSB4, FSBBAL1) Mary Sullivan, "Lloyd Bateman" (AFS; on LC57) Joseph Taylor, "Lord Bateman" (cylinder, on HiddenE) {Bronson's #34} CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "The Turkish Lady" [Laws O26] cf. "Mustang Gray (The Maid of Monterey)" (plot) cf. "Thomas o Yonderdale" [Child 253] (plot) ALTERNATE TITLES: Lord Beham Susan Price Lord Batesman Notes: This song is commonly connected with the story of Gilbert Becket, the father of Thomas (the clerical adversary of England's Henry II). But, although the song's widespread currency implies that it is old, it is unlikely that it is that old. Child believed that it may have been affected by the Becket legend, but was probably independent. The plot very much resembles "The Turkish Lady" [Laws O26], and some scholars lump them, but the latter emphasizes the conversion of the princess rather than, as in this song, her pursuit and reunion. A minor footnote: In the Scottish "Young Beichan" texts, the Turkish girl is typically called "Susan (Susie) Pye," with no obvious derivation that I can see. But in the more numerous "Lord Bateman" texts, she is usually "Sophia." But "Sophia" (Greek for "wisdom") is not a Turkish name. Perhaps the girl had more reasons than love for wanting to escape. One might even speculate that she had (or that some singer intended her to have) a Christian mother. Or that she would rather marry an infidel than live in a harem. And, yes, that's an awfully long chain of inference to hang on one name.... - RBW File: C053 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2004 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:58 PM There's no tune for the text above, but curiously the same manuscript contains another version from the same Mrs. Brown, Child's C text. The tune for this C text was later obtained from Mrs. Brown and Bronson gives it (his #112) from the Ritson-Tytler-Brown MS (but says, in effect, that the tune is strange). |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 31 Aug 00 - 11:50 PM Hi, Bruce! Am I to understand that there is no "Known" tune for these lyrics? Blessings, Thomas |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 01 Sep 00 - 12:00 AM Correct, for that version. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: GUEST,Pavane Date: 14 Jan 05 - 08:10 AM While browsing the Bodleian library, I came across this strange version of Lord Bateman, which seems to have been transliterated into (possibly) the old Cockney dialect, for no obvious reason (Particularly as it was printed in Durham!) Examples: Lord Bateman vos a noble lord... Vere he vos taken and put in prisin.. This Turk he had one only darter... O in sevin long years I'll make a vow Full text here The loving ballad of Lord Bateman |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: GUEST,pavane Date: 14 Jan 05 - 08:11 AM Not to mention A bottle of the werry best vine |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 14 Jan 05 - 10:34 AM The "Cockney" Bateman was originally published as a small book in 1839, with illustrations by George Cruikshank. The text and "scholarly" notes were anonymous, but are generally considered to have been a collaboration between Dickens and Thackeray. The book was reprinted many times (and, of course, the text pirated on broadsides) and copies frequently turn up in second hand book shops. My copy is an 1883 reprint. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: GUEST Date: 14 Jan 05 - 10:16 PM See also the recent thread Minor characters deserving own song for the extra verses written especially for the book. And -why not- the final illustration: Lord Bateman, his other bride, and his favorite domestic, with all their hearts so full of glee (George Cruikshank, 1839). |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: John C. Date: 15 Jan 05 - 11:52 AM The Northamptonshire poet, John Clare, collected a version of Lord B. from a (local Northamptonshire?) shepherd (see 'John Clare And The Folk Tradition' by George Deacon, Sinclair Browne, 1983, p.189). The text is very similar to the versions collected in Lincolnshire, at the beginning of the 20th Century, by Percy Grainger, except that each pair of adjacent verses are run together (if that makes sense!). Clare does not appear to have collected a tune so Deacon has used one of the Lincolnshire tunes (that given to Grainger by Mr Thompson of Barrow, 1906). For anyone who is wondering, the bit of Northamptonshire where Clare lived (just North of Peterborough) is now incorporated into Cambridgeshire (you didn't really need to know that but I threw it in any way!). |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 15 Jan 05 - 02:46 PM Bateman was very common in England, largely, I think, because it was so widely printed on broadsides; texts tend to be quite consistent for the same reason. |
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