Origins: Rap Her to Bank (from The Watersons)

Subject: RE: Origins: Rap Her to Bank (from The Watersons)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 22 - 06:42 AM

It was suggested but never validated that the swords used in the North East rapper dance were used down mines for cleaning the dirt off the backs of pit ponies. If that were true they could also be used to tap signals to the banksman in charge of the cage. Not just up and down but speed as well - Materials were winched faster than men. So, Rapper being both the signaller and device and the banksman being the recipient, rapper to t'bank makes sense!

Subject: RE: Origins: Rap Her to Bank (from The Watersons)
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 20 Dec 22 - 05:40 AM

ps when I mentioned the Jack Elliott LP, it was of course put together from private recordings, edited by Bill Leader

The City Hall concert was a charity event, where local 'folk' performers gave their services free to finance the LP- just for clarity

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Rap Her to Bank (from The Watersons)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Dec 22 - 03:54 AM

Watersons recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeO9nBbXFLs

Ian Campbell Folk Group: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bibzq99KZ_E

Jack Elliott: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXq0IJAHPQ

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons)
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 18 Dec 22 - 06:49 AM

to be fair, the East coast Scottish pronunciation of 'hame' is quite similar to NE England's 'hyem'

About an earlier post, the live Jack Elliott LP was recorded at Newcastle City Hall & the proceeds used to finance the posthumous LP put together by BILL Leader.

   One memory of Stumbling Jack- like a lot of working men he did enjoy a pint or two & I recall him saying one day at a southern England pub

'this beer's that bad I'll be glad when I've had enough'

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons)
From: GUEST,Northumborman
Date: 18 Dec 22 - 05:31 AM

Thank you for printing these lyrics, I was never sure if there should be more verses, but my memory isn't failing me yet! One small point, all the other dialect words have been written, but I think "hame" should be "hyem" - at least in the version I first heard ??.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons)
From: GUEST,Bob Chance
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 08:39 AM

Just remembering that Keith Marsden would often start a set by singing Rap Her to Bank, followed by Close the Coalhouse Door. Keith’s been gone a good while now, for me, I still hear his voice when either song is sung.

Subject: Origins: Rap Her to Bank
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 20 - 02:36 PM

Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry:

Rap 'Er to Bank

DESCRIPTION: "Rap 'er to bank, me canny lad! Wind 'er away, keep tornin! The bac-shift men are gannin' hyme...." The canaller recalls his father's life on the canal, and how he died in a fall of stones. The singer, too, is leaving the canal.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1978 (Raven)
KEYWORDS: canal work death father
FOUND IN: Britain(England(North))
REFERENCES (1 citation):
ADDITIONAL: Jon Raven, _VIctoria's Inferno: Songs of the Old Mills, Mines, Manufacturies, Canals, and Railways_, Roadside Press, 1978, pp. 74-75, "Rap 'Er to Bank" (1 text, 1 tune)
Roud #1786
File: JRVi074

---

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The Ballad Index Copyright 2022 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.

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RAP 'ER TE BANK (DT Lyrics)

cho: Rap 'er to bank, me canny lad!
Wind 'er away, keep tornin!
The back-shift men are gannin' hyam,
We'll be back in the mornin'.

My feyther used to call the torn
When the lang shift was ower.
As he went oot bye, ye'd hear him cry;
D'ye knaa it's efter fower?

And when that aaful day arrived,
The last shift for me feyther;
A faal of stones and brokken bones,
But still above the clatter, he cried:

final cho:
Rap 'er te bank, me canny lad!
Wind 'er reet slow, that's clivor!
This poor aad lad hes tekken bad,
Aa'll be back heor nivvor.

From Victoria's Inferno, Raven
Collected from Henry Nattress, Gateshead
Note: The rapper rope hung from a rapper at the minehead; the
miners pulled it as a signal to bring the cage back up
to the surface.

@English @mining @death
filename[ RAPBANK
TUNE FILE: RAPBANK
CLICK TO PLAY
RG

Popup Midi Player

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons)
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 15 May 16 - 03:34 AM

If you want saddest song (mining) try Morley main disaster ~ I could not listen to this for many years particularly when sung by a women

1866 had the biggest mining Disaster ~ The Oaks Colliey disaster ~ Barnsley Main collery pit head gear is still in existence and is to be refurbished for heritage purpose

366+ miners died and many remain buried to this day

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 16 - 08:40 PM

would like lyrics to the first two verses of this song sung by the wilsons

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: GUEST,oxonmakem
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:16 AM

At Shewsbury Festival this summer I heard The Wilsons sing this song with a couple of new verses they had just written. Does anybody have the words?

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:37 AM

I've had this song running through my head for the past coupla months -- really need to learn it, I guess that means. But I find it to be one of the saddest songs in the world. I had a lot of trouble learning "Dancing at Whitsun" because I'd tear up (and I don't do that easily) after the first verse. I'm finding I have a similar problem with "Rapper To Bank".

Linn

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:57 AM

"Toom" comes to us from the Viking invasions. Modern Danish, Norwegian & Swedish still have "tom" as their word for empty.

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:56 PM

Re "tyum 'uns" - this has already been covered elsewhere. The old Scots or Middle English word "toom" means "empty" - still surviving in regional dialect. It's not a mondegreen, the words you have been given are correct.

Ross

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Rumncoke
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:29 AM

I have had it explained to me that 'chummins' and 'tyum 'uns' are dialect words - I think it is a mondegreen.

The putter rams the empty ones.

But wi' t' explosive 't' and an accent it is not heard clearly enough.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: GUEST,Richard Ridley
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:49 PM

Me Fatha, now 88 years old, was a mechanic/fitter in the north east pits before the 2nd world war. He maintained the pit machinery both above and below ground. He tells me that the rapper is the drum that the cable winds on to. Rapper to bank means wrap the cable on to the drum to bring the cage to the surface. When a friend asked if the miners pulled a rope to ring the bell to call the cage he said " wey no man, tha was always a button ta press!".
The rope obviously goes back to the early 1900's when Henry Natress wrote the words.
It's a great song but I always felt it was left unresolved, what did happen to me Fatha after the awful fall of stones?. I wrote a final verse which gives a happy ending to the story.

Now it's off to work all by mesel'
Never more with me Fatha
It's my job now to call the torn
But I'll see him after fower

Richard Ridley
www.myspace.com/smallpictures

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:16 AM

"I seem to remember twelve or thirteen was EMERGENCY. Can you imagine trying top keep count of this many, under pressure, at either end of the shaft? "

Simpsons addicts will recall The Curse of the Flying Hellfish" where Bart goes deepwater diving and is told by Grandpa that to pull the rope 64 times means he has found the treasure, 63 times means he is running out of air.

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Dave (Bridge)
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM

I once saw a metal plate in the Beamish Mary pub, near Stanley, which had the number of 'raps' to give different signals. I seem to remember twelve or thirteen was EMERGENCY. Can you imagine trying top keep count of this many, under pressure, at either end of the shaft?

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 12:11 PM

Hi Guest, I wonder if Mr Toyne taught you "The Unlucky Duck" (listed in the DT as "The Little Duck)? I'd make an assumption that the answer would be no.
I should get my copy of "The Elliotts of Birtley" when Pete comes down to Grand Union Folk, Barrow on Soar in a couple of weeks time.

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: BillE
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 10:31 AM

The Deputy verse may come from 'Jowl and Listen':

"The deputy crawls from flat to flat
The putter rams the chummins
And the man at the face must kna his place
Like a mother knas her young un."

Source: Notes from Leader LEA 4001 LP 1969

Not forgetting Pete Wood's excellent book - The Elliotts of Birtley - launched at Whitby this year, which gives this verse as:

"The deppity craals fre flat te flat,
The putter rams the tyum 'uns,
And the man at the face must knaa his place
Like a mother knaas her young 'uns."

Some subtle and interesting differences! Dialect is a wonderful thing...

Bill

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 08:57 AM

Walter Toyn who collected this song was my headmaster at George Street Secondary Modern School at Birtley and there was, if my failing memory serves me, another verse somewhere in the middle but for the life of me I can't recall it...something to do with the deputy. W Toyn collected a great number of old songs which he then passed onto us in music lessons. I just hope other of his pupils can remember them better than I can.

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:33 AM

For the uninitiated there is a Live Recording (Royal Festival Hall 1965) - Jack Elliott is introduced and limps on stage with a Plaster on one leg due to and ankle injury . Hi first words are " Not Rambling Jack Elliott , Stumbling Jack Elliott"

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: GUEST,Eddie
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:07 AM

Bank is the top of the shaft, the surface

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: GUEST,Gurney
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 04:18 AM

From the cheer on the record, I thought he was stumbling because of the lunatic soup partaken of.

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: vectis
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 08:42 PM

Is that stumbling Jack Elliot? So called because he had a damaged leg.

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 04:02 PM

In the DT, as RAP 'ER TE BANK

Always the problem with dialect songs, unless you know what the likely alternatives are.

Subject: Lyr Add: RAP HER TO BANK (from The Watersons)
From: Genie
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 03:49 PM

RAP HER TO BANK

Chorus:
Rap her to bank, my canny lad,
Wind her away, keep turning.
The backshift men are ganning hame,
We'll be back here in the morning.

My father used to call the turn
When the last shift was ower.
And ganning outby you'd hear him cry,
"D'ye knaa it's after fower?"

 Chorus

And when that awful day arrived,
The last shift for my father,
A fal of stones and broken bones,
But still above the clatter, he cried,

Final chorus:
Rap her to bank, my canny lad,
Wind her reet slow, that's clever.
This poor old lad has taken bad.
I'll be back here never.
 

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: bobby's girl
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:34 PM

OK we got it 180 degrees out. Thanks all.

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: bill\sables
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:32 PM

Gaz, The first time I heard this song was by Jack Elliot of Birtley Co Durham. I think it was recorded on his LP on Leader "Jack Elliot of Birtley". According to A.L.Lloyd in Come all ye bold miners, it was collected by W. Toyn from Henry Nattress of Low Fell Gateshead in 1962 Jack usually sang it with the song "Jowl Jowl and Listen Lad"

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 28 Sep 00 - 11:53 PM

Thanks for these notes, which I've added to the https://mainlynorfolk.info/watersons/songs/raphertobank.html for the song.

Gaz

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: oggie
Date: 28 Sep 00 - 06:28 PM

The bank is the surface, 'rapping' is the knock given by the man in charge of the cage at the foot of the shaft that the cage was ready for hauling. Originally he knocked on the wall of the shaft but in later years a bell or buzzer was used. In the lifthead at Ironbridge Gorge Museum the full instructions and codes are preserved on one of the boards.

All the best

Steve

Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: bill\sables
Date: 28 Sep 00 - 04:09 PM

Hi Bobby's Girl "Bank" is the surface, the pit head,or top of the shaft

Subject: Rap her to bank - The Watersons
From: bobby's girl
Date: 28 Sep 00 - 03:35 PM

In the words of "Rap her to Bank" as sung by The Watersons amongst others Bank is either the foot or head of the colliery (Coal mine to non-UK readers) shaft. From seeing a winding engine indicator dial in a museum I think it is the shaft-foot. Can anyone confirm this please.