BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why

Subject: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:30 PM

I have the great good fortune to live in the Washington D.C. area where there is an abundance of folk enthusiasts and related activity. In fact, I live in Silver Spring about a mile north of what I like to call the folk epi-center of North America (Bob Clayton, Jennifer Woods, Judy Oppenhiem, Neil Walters, Lisa Null, Charlie Baum, and others) all live withing walking distance of one another. Bill D and Ferrara live within a 5 minute drive. Chance Shiver (Fortunato) lives directly behind me!

I know other folkie concentrations exist in Seattle, Boston, Chicago ?, Philadelphia, and Ann Arbor.

MBO complains that there is no folk life in his area.

Are there other vibrant folk communities and concentraions of folk activities out there? Why did they develop and survive (beyond the 60's) in some areas and not others? Do you feel that you are isolated geographically from other folkies? Any ideas on how new "epi-centers" can be created?

JAB

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Catrin
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:33 PM

Manchester UK is BRILLIANT! I can go out and hear folk music any night of the week (O to have the time and energy!)

Cheers,

Catrin

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:36 PM

Halifax/Bedford/Dartmouth has a large number of Folk music groups and fans (Nova Scotia in general) Pixie, Den, George Seto and myself are the only known Mudcatters though. Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Catrin
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:45 PM

Yes Dave,

Manchester too - loads of folkies but few 'catters (or they keep quiet about it)

Not many people have access to computers though - but that's changing rapidly.

Cheers,

Catrin

P.S. BTW I really like the way you sign your name (yours aye)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:50 PM

I'm not complaining anymore

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:52 PM

Hey Bunch! I envy your location: right in the middle of the Maryland/WashingtonDC folk clique!!!!!*wink* harpgirl

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:56 PM

It does seem to be that way to some degree Jim. As far as the 'Cat goes, you DC'ers have some serious competition from the group at the Jug with Bill Sables and crew, and also from the Toronto bunch.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:14 PM

Oops, I should have mentioned Toronto. It sure seems that folk has survived, or never gone away, in Britain to a much greater extent than here in the states. Again, any thoughts on why?

I wasn't trying to brag about the D.C. community, but I've been wondering for some time why folk flourishes in one area and not in another. Why are we able to hold two very vibrant and well attended Sea Shanty sings every month, and in other areas they can't get one started? etc.

Great MBO, I know that you haven't mentioned not being able to find song circles and jams in your area for some time. Does that mean that you have found them, or that you are no longer looking?

JAB

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Bert
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:25 PM

Could this have anything to do with the 'Gravity' thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GospelPicker (inactive)
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:26 PM

I think one of the most imprtant factors in the appearance of a folk circle or clique is that for the most part, folk enthusiasts are intelligent and educated enough to know what good music and great history are, but the average folkie is also laid-back enough to get down to pickin' and grinnin' and have a good time with friends... your average top-40 plastic throwaway pop fan doesn't even care about the vibrant history of music; they think a CD that came out 5 years ago is OLD... *sigh*... What's that saying about youth being wasted on the young?

GospelPicker

@:()>[+]

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: radriano
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 05:58 PM

There's a good concentration of folk music enthusiasts in the San Francisco Bay area, by golly.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:18 PM

No JAB, I've stopped complaining because I don't care anymore. If Gospelpicker's opinions of pop-loving people like me is any indication, folkies would be the last people I would want to be around--people who seek the elimination of other's music to preserve to continuance of their own. There are words for that. It's called "extermination." And I will have no part of it. I'm going back to learning how to disappear completely.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:19 PM

harpgirl...we ain't no clique......we's a milling throng ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:27 PM

Mbo...*sigh*...for the VERY last time....a LOT of the folkies I know also know and like pop/rock...etc, just as YOU like some folk.....the difference is, they mostly keep the concepts separate and do not DO pop/rock at a folk event....(yes, there are those like me, who spend 90+% of their time in 'folk'....but I am rather the exception)

If you MUST feel persecuted for likeing what you like, be my guest....but it sure seems self-defeating to me...OK....last I will say on the matter

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: okthen
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:34 PM

i live in a cultural desert there is very little music in my town (clare, suffolk, uk).i do not drive, last 'bus 5pm, it is peaceful tho'. i drink in the local social club, but when i take my cd's down there, they are not appreciated to say the least! i'm talking "new country", if i took martin carthy or kate rusby i'd probably get banned for life. oh well you can lead a.......... cheers bill

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: okthen
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:36 PM

p.s.

you don't know how lucky you are.

cheers

bill

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 09:55 PM

Mbo, funny how you find so many people who like folk music here, isn't it?

Lots of music around here, but most folks either don't have computers, or haven't figured out where they plug in yet ;-). "Internet" is where the fish are supposed to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 04:23 AM

Shepherdstown, West Virginia, which has some very strong connections with where you are, JAB. One of our major event organizers used to organize events for the House of Musical Traditions some years ago, to name just one. There's always something good going on here, and quite a few really fantastic musicians live in this area.

Come on up and check us out some time. (Shepherdstown is where you city people come when you can't take the city anymore. Ask around, you'll see. *G*)

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:09 AM

I have often thought that there are two things that contribute to the existence of a vibrant folk community. The first is being a college town, which tends to provide a lot of the infrastructure and attitude that nurtures folkies (along with a constant influx of new blood). The second is a politically liberal orientation; whatever our personal views, I think most of us would recognize that liberal politics have been a sustaining factor in folk music and folk arts. These are not absolute requirements, but I think they can tip the balance. Boston (where I live), DC, New York (particularly the Village)and San Francisco all fit the profile. Any thoughts on that?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:41 AM

The coast of Maine is pretty active, in a sleepy sort of way. I have a friend in Boston who talks of the scene there and makes it sound pretty frenetic, i.e., something happening every night, people staying out late at clubs, etc. I may not be understanding her completely but it sounds like life in the city to me.

Here on the coast we take things a little slower. We work hard and play easy. Coffeehouses abound. Concerts happen, mostly on weekends, all over the place. Song swaps, open mikes (including special teen oriented chem-free open mikes), house concerts, are all here. But we are usually all done and home by 11:00.

And we have our share of "famous folkies" if such a phrase can be used. Gordon Bok, Anne Dodson, Nick Appolonio, Castlebay, and our own Kendall Morse hail from this state. And we have a very talented group of locally popular performers. People like Jud Caswell, Carter Ruff, Martin Swinger, The Windy Ridge Bluegrass Band, Jerry Blodget, and many, many more.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:47 AM

Until some forward thinking people started a celtic festival I wouldn't have said there was any real interest in folk music around here. A handfull of folks doesn't make a community or society of traditional interest large enough to be noticed or have any selfsustaining power. However, through the festival many people became educated because they were at least interested in supporting a local event, or open-minded enough to try something new (to them). Now those people know and love the tradition and we see them at concerts and other festivals and supporting the lifestyle that goes with it.

I agree that a certain liberalism seems to go with the picture but I wouldn't say it was universal.

There now seems to be ties to the folk communities elsewhere, as if we are exploring as folk missionaries.

There's alot of work to be done however. The local pubs either have no live entertainment or limited live entertainment. Dance mix type programmed pop/disco/rap/karioke/dj stuff still rules the roost in my little community. Only last month was the first celtic jam night in a pub (a monthly thing it is to be), and that was on a Wednesday when I couldn't attend. Once when I asked a pub if they would be interested in folk music they answered that they thought that's what they were doing in hiring a guy with an acoustic guitar, even though the material was pop music.

My point is that if we expect to maintain a folk music "industry", it has to be driven by grassroots activism. Festivals, workshops, schools, retreats, concert promoters, educators, etc.

The individual feeling of isolation can be partly overcome by even one other person willing to share the tradition on a committed and dedicated level. The greater sense of isolation perhaps needs a greater degree of selfpromotion. Either way, if we don't act it won't live.

Our little festival and celtic college has created a folk society of sorts here now, but I'm not so naive to think that they wouldn't die without the prime movers and shakers with the original vision. I hope that won't be the case.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Allan C.
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 09:17 AM

I think there are folkies nearly everywhere - lots of 'em. One reason that they (we) aren't more obvious in some areas is that many have not been invited to come out of the closet and to meet with other folkies. This process usually involves the need for someone to break the ice and to actually organize some sort of regular get-togethers. I am certain that the members of the Folklore Society of Greater Washinton, (FSGW,) could tell wonderful stories of their humble beginnings. Likewise, the Oklahoma City Traditional Music Association, (OCTMA,) could do the same. In regard to the latter, I think many of us would be surprised to know the huge number of people who attend the monthly meetings, (I know I was!). Those meetings are very much like the Getaway except that they happen on the first Saturday of each and every month!

Clearly, I was impressed by OCTMA's accomplishments. They have created something to which folkies are willing to drive for miles and miles.

The FSGW's monthly singarounds and workshops are well attended also. I truly enjoyed attending one of the singarounds a few months back.

These two groups (and many others in the USA as well as elsewhere) gave me hope that other such groups could grow to similar proportions.

You can create your own "concentration of folkies". The only way I see to make things happen is to "go public". If you want to meet with other folkies and there isn't an established group nearby, I strongly advocate that you consider starting one. You have to realize that these things did not START big. Usually they began with as few as three or four people who met each month in someone's livingroom or in a local restaurant or pub or cabinetmaker's shop after hours. Give it a try! Post a notice at the local music store or performance venue. You can make it happen. I know that I plan to give it a try whenever I return to my own home.

Allan C.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GUEST,A Certain Picker of Gospel
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 09:40 AM

I didn't mean that we should not like pop music... Geez, is Mbo a little sensitive? I just mean that it takes a certain amount of brains to appreciate a music and a culture that have so little, if anything, to do with the mainstream of commercial culture... All I meant was that the "average" kiddie-pop fan has no interest in the world around them to any great degree... it's because the typical bubblegum garbage they are fed on the radio is designed to meet those "right here, right now, gimme" urges... just like an action figure from a movie... "Be the first on your BLOCK"... Folk is a culture where it MATTERS that 600 years ago, 'ol Someone McSomebody floated over the sea... If you are offended by the idea that folk takes brains and MOST (I said MOST) pop does not, try asking yourself why you care about McSomebody the sailor from eons ago but yet the top selling single of 1982 was... (and NO FAIR ANSWERING IF YOU WERE AROUND THEN) my point is that there's an obvious reason why folkies have lasted... it takes a litte more upstairs to be a folkie... sorry, just my opinion, but I believe it does.

GospelPicker

@:()>[+]

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 10:13 AM

I used to move around a lot, and would finally meet up with other folkies shortly before I left an area. That changed with the internet. I had contact with people before I moved there.

With regard to folkies in general, we have a lot of suspicion towards mass-marketed anything. An attempt to get us interested in anything simply because a lot of people like it, will often have the opposite effect. People know what they like, and others are better off leaving them alone to like it. Forget categories as big as "folk" and "pop." I have friends who hate parodies. I have friends who think women have no business singing sea shanties. I have friends who won't go near any song with a known author. We're still friends, because we don't try to shove our opinions down one another's throats. We're pretty good at "live and let live" as long as no one tries to push their ideas on us and tell us we HAVE to like what they like. That's why the pop fans can get a lot of flak from us, IMO. They sometimes push.

People would be surprised at how many folkies they would find if they looked. I've found big enough groups for a jam on military bases. There was an on-going Irish session in Seoul, South Korea. (Never made it to that session, though.) Somebody puts an ad in the local paper, a notice on the internet, a poster in a local shop, and people come out of the woodwork. The only place I had real difficulty finding anyone to play/sing with was in Indiana. Three and a half years of no-session hell...

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mbo
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 12:14 PM

The top single of 1982 was "Africa" by TOTO, one of the greatest songs ever written. Gorgeous word painting "As sure as Kilamanjaro rises like an emperess over the Serengeti" and though I WAS around then, I was not listening to the radio at age 3. It's one of the few songs my entire family loves...and WHY? Because *I* introduced it to them 2 years ago, when I discovered it. Hmmm...taking something forgotten or never-heard before and exposing it to a new audience who instantly loves it...sounds a lot like folk to me.

And I would have to disagree about folkies smarter or more intelligent than lovers of other kinds of music. Folk just LOVES those long drawn out story songs. Rock/pop does not. I'm taking a photography class, and our teacher said the ONE mistake photographers make is to take a photo of something obvious. A picture of a field with some trees in the background, say. YAWN. We know instantly what it is...NEXT! The BEST compositions are when you have to sit and THINK about what it is...to get the grey cells going. They are the ones that people will enjoy more. Recently we had a huge thread trying to interpret "Don't Think Twice" by Dylan. WHY? Because Dylan doesn't give us the whole story...he makes you think and try to interpret. Some "diddle-iddle-aye" song just ain't gonna do it. So, now you all know that folk music is artistically JEJEUNE!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: annamill
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 12:32 PM

Allan! Your back!! Well, to this topic! As everyone who was at my first gathering will testify, sometime you don't know 'folkies' are around. When I starting telling people in my area about the gathering and what kind of music would be present, they came out of the woodwork! I told everyone there would be no electric, only accoustic and was I shocked. People who had been at my husbands (I have a husband :-0) jams asked if they could come to play and listen. What a party! The catters AND the locals were out on the dock til 1:30 AM playing folk and blues. It was great! We need another one soon!

The locals were a little bit more aggressive than our 'cats, but very talented. I've been invited to several folk events since then in my area, but I've been swamped. Soon as the store opens I'm going!

Point is, they're out there. You just have to go find them.

Love, annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 12:44 PM

Ewww. "Africa" by Toto is irritating. Based on 2 notes, very repetitive. Some nice lyrics though as you point out, Mbo.

Sorry for thread creep.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mbo
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 12:49 PM

Even hear Martin Carthy sing "The Bonny Swans"? I wish I hadn't. It was based on one note, and the 'song' was about 3 times longer that "Africa." OOOOOOOPPPPPSSSS!!! I just made a BIG mistake!!! The album of the year was TOTO IV, which contained "Africa"..but the biggest song was the other one from that album "Rosanna" which is also a family favorite.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 12:52 PM

Are there any mudcatters besides me in the seattle area? All you guys back east getting together makes me jealous.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 01:07 PM

AllanC, you've hit the nail on the head with your comment about starting folk gatherings. I would like to add a few points.

If you want to start something you have to be willing to work at it through a lot of times when it just doesn't seem like it's gonna go. In the early years of the second coming of the Side Door coffeehouse there were nights when we only had half a dozen people in the audience, all of whom were there to perform the open mike and most of whom went home before the featured performer could go on. In those days we, the staff, would go to the coffehouse ready to perform a whole set in case there were not enough people there to fill up the open mike time.

In the last two years that I worked there things had turned around. We opened the door at 7:00 and the sign up sheet was full by 7:05. We were, and they still are, pulling in 35 to 75 people depending on weather and the featured performer.

And our featured performers used to be anyone who could get close to carrying a tune. Not to put them down or anything for we got some really good songs out of them, but this month's featured performer at the Side Door is Gordon Bok.

The Side Door has been featured in a couple of local newspaper articles which pointed out that it is, or was at the time, the only live music venue in town. Since then there have been imitators, including my own Mocha Cafe, popping up all over the place.

You just got to take the bull by the horns!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Allan C.
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 01:09 PM

MT, you'll get more of a response if you pose your question in a new thread - one that specifically mentions Seattle in the title. And YES there are 'Catters in your area! There are three other Mudcatters listed in the Locator (see Mudcat Resources) besides you who live in your state and others, I am sure, who live right in Seattle.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 01:23 PM

More thread creep, then I'll knock it off...

The thing with folk songs is they look "obvious" only to those who are looking for the mystery in the wording instead of the tale. Dylan's songs are like a riddle. Often, ballads have a great deal left out, leaving the details to the imagination. Take REYNARDINE for example. (Well, Halloween is coming up!)

Second verse: "...seeking of concealment, all in the judge's name." He claims to be a decent sort, but he's hiding. Why's he hiding?

Third verse, after she asks his name: "'Tis writ in ancient history, they call me Reynardine." OK. His name's written in ancient history, but he's standing there talking to her. Hmmm...

Another version, REYNARDINE 2, says "Her cherry cheeks and ruby lips, they lost their former dye," and later on "Sun and dark she followed him, his teeth so bright did shine, and he led her over the mountains, that sly bold Reynardine."

So you're left wondering about this guy. Who is he? WHAT is he. Is he vampire? Is he a were-fox. "Reynard" seems to be a name for fox. Or maybe it's because in some of the stories, a vampire can become any creature, not just a bat. Now, how did the song get started? Did someone just want to tell a scary story, or was there a real incident someone based the song on? Was there a local legend about "Reynardine," and the song is all that remains?

The point is, there are plenty of folk songs that make you think about what's going on in the story that isn't in the lyrics. You have to pay attention, though. Modern songs can raise the same sort of questions, but when the author is more concerned with how cleverly they can word things, the question becomes "what the blazes did the author mean by THAT?!" There's a reason you don't see too many traditional songs like that, and I suspect it's not because they weren't written.

There's one very obvious thing that I've noticed. When people talk about folk music, they often talk about music. When people talk about pop, they talk about the musicians - the "stars." "Who" becomes more important than "what." Do you ever wonder why that should be?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 01:41 PM

Not to be deliberately disrespectful of another's opinions but, Toto? I'll go have another listen. My recollection is that the songs sounded like they were composed by committee and recorded with a lack of balls not commonly found in people of that age. I'll go have another listen.

Someone said something about "going public", and I wholeheartedly agree that folk needs to be more public. Funny, isn't it, that the words "folk" and "public" aren't too closely alligned for folk music to have lost its common appreciation. Oh well, maybe in the big picture, after some history has passed, folk music will remain and other forms more a footnote.

I like Mbo's way of passing songs along in the folk tradition, even if most of us, including me, wouldn't define them as folk songs. However, just because it's delivered like folk music doesn't mean it is folk music. The definition for me is much more complex. Oh, oh, getting close to "what is folk?" thread again.

I'm doing my best to expose my kids to folk music, with some success, and with all the competition, any success is good. Exposure of music and children to each other would create a greater concentration of folkies given a generation or two. Not much of it in the schools that I can see, but I do what I can at home.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Fortunato
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:32 PM

Jim and Bill et al and I are lucky to live here in DC for the folk scene. But it hasn't happened all by itself. Countless hours of effort by founders of the FSGW and the volunteers who have come after have made it so. From Bruce Hutton's open mikes to the House of Musical Traditions to the Washington Folk Festival it has been a labor of love. I have labored in the trenches since 1975.

Mbo I missed the thread you refer to, but let me say this to you. IMHOP Folklorists and ethnomusicologists, professional and amateur, look backward (I have been accused of this myself). Much of what passes for FOLK MUSIC today was popular music in its day. The music of Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter Family is unquestionably(?) FOLK today, but was POP music yesteryear. The Old Time Music of Gid Tanner and the Skillet Lickers was POP music in its day. The examples are endless. It is hard to imagine some POP music of today as becoming FOLK, but it may.

When I started my first open mike in the late 70's I asked Joe Hickerson, folklorist of the library of congress and friend about this. He advised me to invite people to play TRADITIONAL music. And to define it so: Music that has passed into the ORAL TRADITION. In that sense, Hank Williams' "Jambalaya" has become TRADITIONAL. How long does it take a piece to become traditional? I don't know, but if pressed I will say 30 years, one generation. So when MBO (and I, by the way) perform "POP" songs, that is the popular music of the day and in so doing pass them into the oral tradition through my son Matthew they have become traditional. Are they FOLK SONGS? Ricky Nelson sang: "If all I sang was memories, I'd rather drive a truck." When Ian and Sylvia sang "Twenty-four hours from Tulsa" was it FOLK or POP?

All of the above is my opinion, clearly. But MBO, please keep doing the POP songs you like, I do, and they just might turn out to be FOLK songs one day. regards, chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GUEST,John Leeder
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:41 PM

If we're talking about areas which have a lot of venues to hear public performance of folk music, I'd suggest that you need two things: people who are prepared to put the time and effort (either professionally or as a volunteer) into organizing; and audience members who are willing to spend their money on folk music in order to make it financially viable. If either of these elements is lacking, you won't have a vibrant public-performance folk scene. However, it's possible to have a vigorous grassroots folk community without having a lot of performance venues (although admittedly it can be good for the grassroots scene if people are able to be enthused by getting to hear good performers from time to time).

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 05:02 PM

Uh oh, we are getting dangerously close to that deadliest of questions "What is Folk Music?" Beware! HERE BE TYGERS!

I agree that what we call folk music today was once popular music. It stands to reason. Schooner Fare used to joke about the youngsters of the day in later years standing around the old upright synthesizer trying to remember the words to songs by Twisted Sister. It isn't that far from being a joke.

My kids like folk music. Not all of it but they like a lot of what I like. They try to educate me about what they are listening to. I don't like all of it but I do like some of it. So I listen to They Might Be Giants, Bare Naked Ladies, and, the latest, some Japanese band that my younger daughter and her friends listen to. And, when I'm housecleaning I put in any old thing from Pete Seeger to Moody Blues, from Emerson Lake and Palmer and Led Zeplin to Tom Paxton (Yes he is too a folkie!) and Gordon Bok.

John Leeder, you are absolutely right. To start a venue takes a dedicated soul but not too many to do the work. One or two people is all it takes to get something started. "If you build it they will come!"

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 11:33 PM

Naemanson, don't forget Cindy Kallet on your list of well-known Maine folkies. Fine singer/songwriter with a voice to die for.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Dave Swan
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 12:21 AM

Somewhere farther north on this page Whistle Stop says that two factors contributing to the existence of a vibrant folk community are the presence of a college town and a politically liberal environment. Agreed. I think another contributing factor is a community made up of differing cultures which still make their music in public on a regular basis. Music breeds music. It's good for us to be able to hear koto, concertina, and kalimba all in the same community.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GUEST,scoattie
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 01:17 AM

Allendale, Hexham and Northumbrian Tyneside to the coast;Ilived and worked there for fifteen years, and never found myself among a more talented concentration of folk enthusiasts either before or since---and I've just passed the big 70. I'm fairly sure that at least one of the Mudcat hierarchy has close Allendale connections, so he'll know well what I mean.Hexham club in years past used to be looked on as a challenge by the guest artistes, so prolific was the local talent; and when I say guest artistes, I refer to the best---all of the Fisher family [except the sister who went to Oz] Cilla [Fisher] and Artie Tresize, the Battlefield, FiveHand Reel with Dick Gaughan and co, Tannahil, wee Danny Kyle [now gone, bless the memory]Barbara Dickson, Finn Macoull, Cyril Tawney, High Level Ranters [ practically residents!] Alec Atterson, the Frisco Fire Band [Faith Pretick], Arizona Smoke Review, and a host more. A five-ten minute drive from there took you to the home and workshop of Stephan Sobell and his good lady;both have made stringed instruments for folk artistes all over the world. I still find my way back there from Vancouver Island at least twice a year, and still find pleasure in the company of the Tyneside Folkies. May they flourish forever!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 01:31 AM

In Florida, Gamble Rogers and Will McLean were the best known of the folkies. Friends of Florida Folk keeps all of us interacting with a list and a website and magazine, not to mention hosting many get togethers.
The Florida Folk Festival in May in White Springs, The Will McLean Festival in March in Dade City, The South Florida Folk Festival in January, the Old Time Music Championships and countless other small festivals, jams, dance, and venues bring the many Florida folkies together.
Doug Gauss is here in Tallahassee. Sue Grooms is in Gainesville. Dash Moore is around St. Augustine. We have Dale Crider and Pat and Ann Thomas, Cheryl and Ray Belanger,Gove Scrivenor, Mark Fackeldy, Robin Plitt is down south, Hot Flash, Upsala, and The Ashley gang. There are a whole lot of us, too numerous too mention and since Florida is a big beautiful state, we come together from the far corners...my favorite time is during organge processing in the spring in Dade City...the smell is intoxicating when we ride through town for events in Pasco county...

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 02:22 AM

El Swanno and chanteyranger are right about the diversity in the Bay area........Two weirder ducks I can't imagine and that's diversity personified. Besides, where else could you could regularly witness that pinnacle of culture, the "Flying Flaming Fartistic Fishnetted Firefighter Flop."...............Shit man, that's art!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 02:25 AM

You're right chantyranger but I couldn't include everyone. We have quite a pile of talent here on the coast.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 09:19 AM

Well, you have Kendall...and he has piles....so I guess you're right.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: BigDaddy
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 01:43 PM

Lucky here in Michigan to have a quantity of quality performers, as well as some wonderful venues. Also helped greatly by organizations like the Irish-American Club/Gaelic League, St. Andrew's Scottish Society and many others who help keep it lively. We even have some folk performers here who manage to do music for a living! Jeri, you're right on with your comments about "Reynardine." It's been giving me wonderful shivers for nearly thirty years. And harpgirl, thanks for the input on the Florida folk scene. I may be moving from here to there next year (somewhere between Clearwater Beach and New Port Richey), and have been apprehensive about leaving the folk scene behind here. Cheers!

J.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 04:05 PM

BigDaddy,

You're lucky to have anything in Michigan, what with your Governor Engler--but seriously, the thriving Michigan folk music scene owes a lot to Stan Werbin, and Elderly Instruments--there had been a fairly active folk community in East Lansing when they started the store, but it was starting to fall by the wayside--And even though it started as a small store for collectible instruments, they welcomed and tried to accomodate everybody, whether they were collectors, players, non-players, or whatever--the result has been that a goodsized, vibrant community has grown--

The trick was that the door was open to anyone--which, sadly, is not always true

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Ely
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 05:55 PM

My parents speak fondly of the folk scene in Ann Arbor, but they were there from 1968-1978, so I imagine it was pretty good. I'm glad to hear there's still stuff going on. University influence? I don't know.

Iowa seems to be doing well, at least for old-time music. Plenty of local talent, regular dances, etc. Home (Houston) has lots of music but it seems to be spread out across genres, so I've had a hard time finding really good old-time stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 06:30 PM

Pearls are created because there is some irritating little bit of something that can't get assimilated that provokes the oyster into starting to make a pearl.

That's more or less how iot works with folk music too. There's some individual, or set of individuals who are just obessed enough and ornary enough to get something going, and then it just grows from there, if things go right.

There have to be a few people around who are available to be drawn into it, play the music, gom tomthe convcerts or dances or whatever, and there are probably palces and time where this just isn't the case. But most of the time I suspect that they are there, but what is missing is the precipitating folk agitators.

And so far as I'm concerned, it's never a question of "what is folk", and if it's not "folk" it doesn't belong. The crucial thing is that it should be live music made by real people, without those present having hang-ups about when they were born, and without any kind of exclusion of songs just because of the date people started singing them.

What matters is, do the songs speak to the people listening? Are the singers singing them for any other reason than just to make a noise and to get people looking at them. And if it's tunes, could you dance to them if you wanted to?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 08:16 PM

McGrath of Harlow,

I like your pearl comparison. I think that's what I'm trying to do with accordions, although I think I'm still at the stage where I'm being more of an irritant than a pearl. Still working on it, though. (And not likely to give up, for those of you who were hoping.)

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 09:35 PM

...Well BigDaddy, I cut my teeth at the Ark while I was an Ann Arbor resident. The Michigan folk scene was incomparable, but Florida has a tight knit folk group. You will be welcome, I'm sure. Roy Bookbinder is down here and Grammy nominee Jeanie Fitchen as well. The west coast has a very active folk music community!!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Oct 00 - 06:19 PM

Well, I juts got back from the annual Beach Retreat with 17 other college kids (like myself) from the ECU Catholic Newman Center, as well as our wacky priest Father Tom. Oh MAN what a great time we had! I've never laughed so hard in my entire life and had so much fun over the course of the weekend. We all left to come back home at 10am this morning, and as soon as took off I missed them already. Thank goodness I get to see them all again on Tuesday (P.I.R.A.T.E. Night = karoake!!!) and Wednesday. I brought me guitar with me..it was great. I got to talk to people about Radiohead & Oasis who actually CARED about it, and I've never had so many people play me guitar. When I first got there, they were begging me to play! Elle & Lisa were harmonizing with me on "Shakermaker" by Oasis, Ryan & Steve and me trio-ed up on "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" and "I Am The Walrus" by the Beatles...but the most exciting was when just about all of us sang "All Star" by Smash Mouth (last summer's biggest song). Oh my God what a rush--I wish I could have taped it! Folk festivals??? I don't need no stinkin' folk festivals!

--Matt