BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: WyoWoman
Date: 08 Oct 00 - 09:34 PM

These either-or conversations baffle me.

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Oct 00 - 11:12 PM

...you mean there are others out there like you, Mat...and you finally found them? *wink* harpgirl

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 08:42 AM

Matt, glad you got to play to/with a live audience, we old fogeys worry you spend too much time alone with your 'puter! Now take it further: Today ECU, tomorrow the world! I'll expect you at Wembley Arena 'fore long!
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 08:51 AM

It's true, Mbo, we do worry--glad to know you get out from sometimes!!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:17 AM

Matt: I don't care what you call it (folk or pop), but it sounds like you had a great experience that is the essence of what attracts many of us to "folk". There are magical moments when everything comes together for a great evening of sharing music and we live for them! I remember being at camp when I was young and the councilors were singing "Blowing in the Wind", "Turn, Turn, Turn", and "Elinor Rigby" (the pop tunes of the time). Ever since then I've been hooked on "folk" music.

My personal likes/dislikes have gravitated towards traditional tunes and songs because I like to research the different variations and history of what I learn. However, the central thing that attracts me is that these are songs/tunes that are meant to be sung and shared by people. Damn, your weekend makes me jealous!!! :-).

JAB:

Abby, Yes! the ARK was another magical time in my life. It was the catalyst of the Ann Arbor music community for so many years. I remember sitting on the floor at the Hill Street location, and falling backwards when I stood up (My feet had fallen asleep and the earth shoes I was wearing were tilted backwards). David Bromberg, Michael Cooney, The Bothy Band... the list goes on and on.

Back on Topic:

It seems that a catalyst usually helps create a folk community. It could be a folk club, venue, or music store. Is one enough, or do you need all three. Is it easier to maintain a music community in areas where the music originated and have a living tradition, or does that matter much anymore in our electronic age?

JAB

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:34 AM

You can be baffled WW...its OK. The main thing is that Meebo has FINALLY got out there and realized there are REAL people in a REAL world with REAL likes that are like his own.........and it doesn't matter what the music!!!

KEEP IT UP MEEBO!!!!!! Go Tuesday, Wednesday, any day, all week....Just soak up the experience!!!! You have indeed made my day.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:50 AM

I remember when I was young...yeah, it's gonna be one of those stories.

I was at the Fox Hollow Fest, sitting around with a bunch of kids. We loved that traditional songs, but didn't know many, so we sang and played stuff we did know - Eagles, James Taylor, Led Zep, America, Neil Young, CSN, etc. We never saw ourselves in competition thought, and the old farts in their 30's and 40's left us alone to sing whatever we wanted. Not "I don't need no stinkin' folk festivals," but more like "We're gonna sing whatever we can sing." You don't need a festival to do it - just a bunch of people who want to sing.

So two years ago, I was at Old Songs, wandering around at night looking for music. I came upon a bunch of kids who had started their own session, and was told "you're welcome to come in as long as your nice." (Read "We don't need no bossy adults telling us what we should be singing.") I didn't go - I was more concerned about intimidating them, but I might have felt out of place because I didn't know the music. I really wish I'd gone in now. I probably missed some great songs, and I might have learned something.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:55 AM

No Jeri, I was punning the mousepads we have here in the computer lab that say "Floppies? You don't need no stinkin' floppies!". Sigh...I'll never hear "Motion Picture Soundtrack" by Radiohead again without thinking of all 19 of us walking on the beach at 1am, while the half moon sparkled off the Atlantic Ocean...

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 12:04 PM

any time you are in a nice setting with people you like, singing songs you like and agree on, it is GOOD! Sounds like a great weekend!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 12:05 PM

I thought it was "Badgers?! We don't need no stinkin' badgers!"

Ah, memories...I remember sitting around a campfire by a moonlit lake with a bunch of people from work and singing our brains out to songs on an oldies radio station...

Hard to find people who know or like traditional songs unless you sneak one in every now and then. Easier to find folks who just want to sing.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 01:00 PM

"I'll expect you at Wembley Arena 'fore long!" Better not wait too long - they're pulling the poor old bugger down any day now. Just had the last football match there - England lost to Germany. (And the same night Scotland onlty just beat San Marino...But not at Wembley, or San Marino would probably have won...)

And Mbo, glad things are moving out in the 3D world - but you'll still come back and tell us off still sometimes won't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GUEST,John Leeder
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:43 PM

Coming back after after a weekend of overeating turkey (and I'll eschew the obvious puns...):

I'm not sure that "If you build it, they will come" always works. "They" have to be there, and "they" have to know about it. In other words, there have to be potential participants in sufficient numbers, and the communications have to be effective to inform them about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:17 PM

"If we build it, we'll be there" is perhaps a better basis. If the "we" gets bigger, so much the better. If it doesn't, what have you lost so long as you got a chance to play and sing the music you love?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 08:20 AM

Hip hip hooray for Mbo! But bigger hoorays for the new friends who got a chance to get to know him. And hear him! I wanna HEAR him and SEE him at the same time! (Mbo went to BeachMe??)

A phrase caught my eye somewhere way up there on the page and got me started... FOLK CIRCLES.

Must be like CROP CIRCLES. Spring up mysteriously in the night in the middle of nowhere. Music nowhere, I mean. Folk nowhere, then BAMM, a folk circle, song circle, circle of friends.

Hope there is no hoax involved though.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GUEST,John Leeder
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:40 AM

McGrath, you're absolutely right as far as grassroots stuff is concerned. I was thinking more of "performing venues" situations (as my early message high up on the list mentioned), where if people don't show up and pay money, the event will not survive.

In the Calgary Singers' Circle, we've had as few as 3 people (a good session, by the way!) and as many as 39. For our contra dances, we have 50-80 dancers, usually. For both things, the publicity is solely a phone/email tree and word of mouth. Both events could survive with small numbers (except that for the dances we have to pay for the hall, also a dance with only a few dancers doesn't work well -- but we started with 8 people in a living room...).

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:50 AM

Over the years, I've been involved in several attempts to establish networks of people interested in 'minority' music (folk or otherwise). There are two methods that seem to work fairly well.

1) Find half a dozen enthusiasts, willing to hold occasional gatherings in their homes. Meet, say, once a month, with a different member as host each time. Invite interested friends to come along. When the crowd gets too big to fit into anyone's parlour, rent a public room in an accessible location, and start charging people to come in. If they keep coming, supplement your local performers with occasional guest artists from outside the community, and advertise them in the local newspaper. (Nowadays, you can also spread the word via the web.)

2) Alternatively, find a suitable venue (coffee-house, pub, community arts centre, or whatever), with a sympathetic manager. Then try and persuade them to include a regular folk-night in their entertainment package. This is a riskier method, because if audience numbers don't build up quickly, the proprietors will probably pull the plug on you. (And even if the event is successful, a change of ownership, or a change of policy, can still shut you down abruptly.)

Either way, the rule is 'use it or lose it'. Most of these gatherings survive because a small cluster of people turn up regularly, and help keep the show running. Not just the performers, but also the unsung heroes and heroines who do the less glamorous (but equally necessary) chores. And the hard core audience, of course. Without their commitment, the show can't go on.

There's another asset that's a great help in getting a scene started - or keeping it going once it's started. In your community, you may be lucky enough to have a shop selling records (and/or sheet music, instruments, strings, picks etc,) with at least one staff member who's on your side. If they have room for a small notice board, this can provide almost all the publicity you need. (In return, give their store a plug at your club nights.)

And this leads to one final suggestion. If you are desperate for congenial musical company, visit all your local music stores, and find the ones that sell the sort of stuff that interests you. Buy a record, or some sheet music, or a pack of strings, and engage the staff in conversation. If they seem to be on your wave-length, then ask where the local action is. You may believe you're living in a musical desert - but chances are there's a scene going on that you haven't noticed yet.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 11:43 AM

Mike, you bring up a good point. My father is a buckskinner and used to hold an annual rendezvous on his farm. The gun club he belongs to was always enthusiastic about the rendezvous in the planning stages but hardly anyone ever showed up to do the work of preparing the site. The burden fell to my father (and me).

My point is this. If you want to start a folk venue be prepared to do the work yourself. Be grateful for any help that materializes but don't grow to depend on it too quickly.

This is the real test of your love for the music. Whenever I stand in the empty room that will be the Mocha Cafe I feel that test straining at me. And when I stand on the stage to welcome the people and introduce the first performer I look at the crowd and feel a sense of pride in passing the test yet again.

I started going to the folk concerts at the Chocolate Church in 1987. I started helping out in the '90's some time. I am now in the position of them expecting me to be there for them. This is a responsibility I take seriously but it took a long time before the crew at the church allowed themselves to expect my help.

That is how it should be. Appreciate your volunteers. As Gordon Bok said at the concert last Friday, without the volunteers the music would not get out there for the people to hear. It would dry up and blow away. Gordon would have remained a sailor and wood carver and never been able to get on a stage.

Of course, we all know this is a huge exageration but it is something to keep in mind. There are a lot of talented performers out there who will, for one reason or another, never follow Gordon into the limelight. It is the small venue that gets them on stage and gets an audience in front of them.

(Oh, for those who don't know, a buckskinner is a person who recreates the days of the old fur trappers out West and the Long Hunters in the East. These are the people who lived in the woods and hunted with fint lock rifles prior to 1840 and after the Revolution.)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:36 AM

The "house church" approach to buildoing things that Mike (hi) suggests sounds is something I haven't heard working out in England. . The onl;y worry I'd have about it is that openness to all comers has always seemed an essential thing about the folk scen. As a transitional thing though, it makes a lot of sense.

It's be interesting to hear how this kind of thing has worked out in different places.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Biskit
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:12 PM

Having been delighted several times by your music on HearMe, I'm sure your friends also have memories that they'll reflect on for years to come. Good for you Matt!.. Ah puts me to rememberin'......-Biskit-

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 10:42 AM

Hi there, Master McGrath!

Yopu said you'd like to hear some stories of how organised folk clubs grew out of informal gatherings.

Well, have you forgotten that the first folk-club in your home town of Harlow was launched in the way I described, by my old mate Jim Basset?

For about 18 months, from the summer of '61 through to the early spring of '63, Jim and a few other enthusiasts used to hold weekend folk parties every month or two. Eventually, when enough people became interested, they started meeting once a week in the room above a local pub called "The Small Copper".

I was there on the opening night, and I seem to remember that you were, too - but the star attraction was Alex Campbell. (What an entertainer! I still miss him, don't you? And isn't it a scandal that none of his vinyl recordings have been re-issued on CD?)

Since then, I've seen, or heard about, quite a few other instances of informal private gatherings developing into more established (and accessible)institutions. The details would probably be too tedious for the general reader, but if you like, I could email them to your personal page.

Wassail!

Wassail!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 09:44 PM

I have long been of the opinion that one of the reasons for a concenyration of like souls is "PLACE". In my county of Yorkshire there are places where certain types of people gather, some of the "Folkies". One of them is Whitby on the North Yorks coastline. Part of the reason is due to the annual Folk Week in August, but in part it is also that we who go there regularly likr the place, as do those who have already retired there ( plus the people who haven't yet retired, but went anyway ).
Another "place" is Hebden Bridge, which is noted for the number of aliens in flying saucers who visit. It must be a prime place of interest if you have green skin and pointy ears, but I personally do not know why they don't visit Luddendenfoot which is only a few miles walk down the valley.
Quack!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 14 Oct 00 - 01:29 AM

I think it's because we are the media that carry our music. Now granted, with the internet, one can get a lot of info from all over. Look at this site for example. Nonetheless, this site, doesn't seek us. Green Linnet, Philo and Shanachie don't call us out of the blue and say "We've got a whole world of music, that's not on VH-1, and if you checked it out, you might like it." Before I ever learned a thing from anyone on this site, I learned from people here in Pittsburgh. Now we have a moderately small folk scene, but it's enjoyable, and there are good people here. Granted I had a little push from the more mainstream stuff like the Chieftains and such, but it's the grassroots people here that sucked me in. I don't know what I'd be into if there wasn't a community for me to have fallen into, but I doubt I would have ended up as a folkie if my seed linded on rockier ground.

Rich

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 02:01 AM

In Hull there is about 30 Mudcatters, and folk sessions on every night.Does anywhere have more Catters than Hull? The population of Hull is about 250,000.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 04:03 AM

john you been trawling the old threads again??
Lots of music and great musicians here in Sheffield (UK) but not that many on mudcat (3?)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 08:59 AM

Roger-I wondered what would happen if I put Hull in the search box, there was tons of stuff! There is some really good threads in the archive, not much on football though!