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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 15 Jun 14 - 07:05 AM Re Dusty Miller & Dave Hanson Kavanaghg did NOT name the song Raglan Road. It once had a title 'fair Haired Miriam ran away' but officially became titled Dawning Of The Day. It was Luke Kelly who changed that to On Raglan Road for copyright reasons (see me earlier post. 'The Queen Of Hearts' line does not refer to Hilda Moriarty. I don't believe she ever worked in a cake shop! She studied medicine and later became a GP. Kavanagh never explained what the various terms meant, But from research I've done including talking to people in Eire who knew the man, I believe it refers to Brendan Behan. Once a close friend of Kvanagh, they fell out, it's believed in jealosy of Behan's 'star' status with the media and him being regularly in employment by them. Compared to Kavanagh's getting little work or making no money, his rather ascerbic attitude and fondness to whiskey didn't help. He once said about Beham "him like a feckin queen up there entertaining all and sundry and I being ignored!" (making tarts and I not making hay) That's why I belief the line refers to Behan |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Thompson Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:43 AM There's a wiki under Dawning of the Day, with a very rough translation. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Thompson Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:43 AM Fáinne an lae, meaning dawn, literally means the ring of day, and refers to the brightness at the edge of the eastern horizon at dawn; 'geal', or gheal after the feminine noun fáinne, means bright. The original song is an aisling poem, a style composed commonly in the 17th and 18th centuries to disguise the fact that they were songs of freedom from the occupying forces, who were fond of hanging people for wanting freedom. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:32 AM Interesting comments, Guest. I wish I knew what your name is. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:26 AM Both Musicman & Zander below correctly give the old Gaelic tune Finne Gael An La' (speling)as the tune) it was put to that tune in 1964 by Luke Kelly of The Dubliners. After a brief meeting with Kvanagh in Dublin's Bailey pub. In the only conversation Kelly remembers, Kavanagh approached him with the poem and said " hey you Kelly, you should make a song out of this" The rest is history and one of my favourite songs. The poem was titled The Dawning Of The Day. Kelly found there were at least 4 other works of the same name so changed the title to Raglan Road. Kavanagh never explained the heavy, mysterious symbolism of the words. But having studied it for over 6 years, I believe it's both an unrequieted love song, partly for Hilda Moriarty (there never was a real affair) and his love/hate relationship with the Irish State's relationship with the Catholic Faith, he was most critical of both. His fall ot with Brendan Behan is also in there I'm sure. 'The Queen of hearts still Making tartsm while I not making hay' almost certainly refers to Behan |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:48 PM Good of you to post the words Julia L, but Andy Hunter's version WAS mentioned on 4/11/00 by Ewan McVicar, even if he didn't name the song...... if you read the whole thread. And I heard a friend sing Jim Radford's "Shores of Normandy" just last week when all the big commemorations of the D-Day landings were happening. And (thread drift a bit) there are a lot of poems whose meters fit certain tunes - witness several songs to the tunes of "Tramps and Hawkers" and "Star of the County Down" for example. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,Julia L Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:27 PM I'm surprised nobody has mentioned ASndy Hunter's Kilbowie Hill which I have heard sung by Jack beck (also recorded on his O, Lassie Lassie album) KILBOWIE HILL- Andy Hunter I was strolling down Kilbowie hill on a cold November day The morning mist hung o'er me and the toon was dark and grey My thoughts were wi' my broken love, the wound was there tae stay And the shipyard cranes stand alane at the dawning of the day I watched her running before me as she laughed her cares away Soft as any summer's breeze across the Cartney brae I never knew that love was mine, I chose tae slough away And the shipyard cranes stand alane at the dawning of the day And the Queen that stands against the dock will shortly sail away The sun that shines upon her hull will shine through Clyde's clear spray And I saw the light shining in her eyes as I wiped the tears away And I saw her lying beside me at the dawning of the day |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST Date: 12 Jun 14 - 05:51 PM In a mean abode On the Raglan Road By the Lakes of Ponchartrain A gurrier called Kavanagh had a woman his brain, A lass like Cushie Butterfield, with feet of yaller clay, And he stole the tune from the rising moon At the dawning of the day. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST Date: 12 Jun 14 - 05:28 PM 'he called it RAGLAN ROAD, ffs. Dave H' ON Raglan Road even. As was pointed out earlier. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Dave Hanson Date: 12 Jun 14 - 03:30 PM Have you learned nothing from this thread dusty millar ? It was written by the poet Patrick Kavanagh, he called it RAGLAN ROAD, ffs. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,dusty millar Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:45 AM understand it was originally called "dawning" and one of the "dubliners re-named it "raglan". originally a poem by a dubliner, some of the words could do with an explanation. the "enchanted way" is a dublin street, the "queen of hearts still baking tarts is believed to refer to the fact that the target of his affections worked in a bakers shop, and "not making hay" means of course he's getting nowhere with his courting! (we've all been there!). a quiet street where old ghosts meet refers to a dublin corner reputed to be haunted. hope this helps. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jun 14 - 05:05 AM In this thread Jim Radford says he wrote his "Shores of Normandy" to be sung to the tune of "Raglan Road." I listened to several recordings of "Raglan Road." Sometimes, "Raglan Road" sounds to me like "Star of the County Down," and sometimes like "Lakes of Ponchartrain." The songs seem to have a lot in common. Are they all more-or-less the same tune, or is my ear bad? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Apr 12 - 09:11 AM more to the point, who put the bom in the bomba bomba bom? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: The Sandman Date: 20 Apr 12 - 07:47 AM The Dawning of the Day (Irish: Fáinne Geal an Lae) is an old Irish air composed by the blind harpist Thomas Connellan in the 17th Century. here is a version with concertinahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bFeua5R8w8 |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Tootler Date: 20 Apr 12 - 07:09 AM The original title of the poem was actually "Dark Haired Miriam Ran Away" |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Arthur_itus Date: 20 Apr 12 - 06:16 AM Surely the correct title is On Raglan Road. This is the version I like most http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj9EK1QMlUg&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL8636080D3CF35CF4 Although I note that even they can't get the correct title. I called Jonathan Williams sometime ago (who is the Trustee's Agent), to get permission for my freind to record the song for a charity CD. He was a really nice person and very helpful. He insisted that the song must be called "On Raglan Road". http://www.tcd.ie/English/patrickkavanagh/thetrust.html |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 19 Apr 12 - 11:43 AM It was written in 1947 by Patrick Kavanagh. In 1962 he met Luke Kelly of The Dubliners and said "here Kelly, you should sing this" or words very similar. Kelly put the words to an old trad tune Finne Gael An La (not too sure of my spelling) And his recording is the definitive version, It's both an unequited Love song for a lady called Hilda Moriaty, and I believe more so a typical Irish allegory style song for his love/hate relationship for the states involvement in church matters and vice versa, also a lot of the song relates to his b itterness that the fame, fortune and women, which came to others such as Joyce, Behan etc never came to him. Although since his death he is now regarded as one of Ireland's greatest writers. It was titled Raglan Road by Kelly as there were at least 4 other works at the time named Dawning Of The Day, the original poem's title |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 13 May 07 - 11:00 PM She means "Abbey Road", I think. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Effsee Date: 13 May 07 - 09:05 PM Butts, it's always a good idea to read the whole thread before leaping in with daft questions. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 13 May 07 - 08:08 PM i have the cd cover??? ! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 13 May 07 - 08:07 PM Guest, meself! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: BUTTS Date: 13 May 07 - 08:00 PM hi, raglan road is a great song. i have the cd cover but gave it to a friend, did you find out who wrote it?? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 13 May 07 - 07:10 PM Sure! Doesn't it start off with ... In the town, where I was born, Lived a..... something, something, something? Not exactly up to par with the original lyrics but definitely uplifting, in a cross your heart sort of way!!! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,Corkie Date: 13 May 07 - 07:20 AM Does anyone know where I can get two extra verses to Raglan Road? I heard them sung on RTE (Irish TV) earlier this year by Brian Kennedy (I think!!!!) and I very keen to find them. They were a sort of uplifting, in comparison with the pathos that the existing last verse ends with. Hope someone can help. Corkie |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 10 May 07 - 01:49 PM Oh Stef: Read the thread. Good Morning All! from the sunny Highlands. Jim |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,Stef Date: 10 May 07 - 12:59 PM it's originally a poem written by Patrick Kavanagh..though he intented it to be sung as a song to the air of 'Dawning of the Day' |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,meself Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:47 PM Nope - but give me a minute and I will! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:14 PM You wrote the tune. Didn't you? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,meself Date: 20 Feb 07 - 05:11 PM Um - allow me to quote meself: "not that that proves anything, mindja ..." I think we're in agreement on that point! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 20 Feb 07 - 05:07 PM Proves nothing Bud! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,meself Date: 20 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM 'Fraid not, Jim ... And if you take a look at the other thread about Raglan Road that's on the go, it seems that there are a few others who haven't heard that particular penny drop - not that that proves anything, mindja ... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 19 Feb 07 - 11:35 PM Well Meself! Did the Penny drop yet? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,Quinny Date: 19 Feb 07 - 11:30 PM You'll find just about everything you'll need to know on the RTE (Irish National Broadcaster) website, including an interview with Hilda Moriarty the muse for this poem. http://www.rte.ie/laweb/ll/ll_t03i.html |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:12 AM 'Night Son! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,meself Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:10 AM Nope - he's saying he, an angel, courted her AS IF she were an angel too, like him, but now he realizes she's a mere mortal - unlike him! (And he's got his feet on the ground now - lost his wings; he's learned a hard lesson). Okay, now, out there in BC you're probably just getting your second wind, but it's after 3 in the morning here, so - get thee behind me, Satan, I've got to get some sleep. Maybe I'll see it differently in the morning! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:02 AM "That I have courted an angel, not a woman" Come on Meself. You can do this! Stan may be gone but there are others who do not need to see my ramblings. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,meself Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:58 AM Oh my - now I'm just confused - is that the sound of a penny dropping, or am I losing my marbles? Anyway - okay, I'll start hoarding those falling pennies so I'll be all set to buy you that pint when the time comes - Yes, that was a gracious apology - although, if I had interpreted that song the way you did, I might well have said the same thing about it and its writer ... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:49 AM Now: Go back to the Stan Rogers thing and graciously accept the apology which awaits you there. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:44 AM Ah! You're getting there now. You're misinterpreting this sentence but worry not. You're on the brink of an epiphany! "That I had wooed, not as I should, A creature made of clay" This is to say... "That I have courted, not a creature made of clay, which is what I should have done" Clearly, his way is better. My way is clearer. Your way is to buy me a pint the first time I'm ever in Pugwash or Tatamagouche! Now: The next sound you'll hear will be that of the penny dropping. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,meself Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:09 AM But Jim - he says "I had loved ... /A creature made of clay". In other words he - the speaker, "I" - is the angel, who loved the human (her). If "she" is the angel, then she all of a sudden has to be speaker for the last five lines of the song ... I know you're right once in while, because I've seen it on other threads. But on this one, well, I'm not so sure ... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:00 AM It's my Catholic up bringing that takes me there, Meself. There is just no way that Mr. Kavanagh (poetic license or none) would ever refer to an Angel in anything but a masculine term. Couldn't happen. I take the line to mean that for an Angel to stoop down to loving an earthly being such as himself would be grounds for sudden departure from the heavens. The bestowing of heavenly qualities upon a human being was sacriligeous enough to satisfy even Patrick Kavanagh but to refer to himself as an angel would just make no sense. Trust me on this one. I'm right, once in a while. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,meself Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:42 AM Hate to disagreee with you, Jim, because you seem such a fine fellow, but I don't think you're right - take another look (from DT): My reason must allow. [I take the period there to be an error{?)] That I had loved, not as I should A creature made of clay, When the angel woos the clay, he'll lose His wings at the dawn of day. In other words, the speaker ("I") "had loved" the "creature made of clay" (the female love-interest), and he loved her "not as [he] should", but presumably with a too lofty, high-flown, high-falutin', idealistic type of love. (What's "not as [he] should" mean, anyway? That he should have just hauled her into bed? Again, it seems to suggest that she was not worthy of the angelic love he was offering; he was throwing his pearls before swine, so to speak. Somebody tell me I'm wrong here ... ) If the angel WERE the female love-interest, it would be exceedingly clumsy to end up the song referring to her in the male gender. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 13 Feb 07 - 01:45 AM I think, I can answer the "Angel" thing for you, Meself. We were always taught that angels were genderless and were always referred to in masculine terms. So they were male just so as you wouldn't call them "It". In north America, the unwashed frequently refer to them as "Females", some of whom apparently float around on clouds, chowing down on cream cheese. The creature made of clay was Himself, Meself. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,meself Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:30 PM This is for those who like to fuss over words - if you are annoyed by people fussing over the words of your favourite songs, please skip this. Okay. I feel that a comment made on another post applies to this song: I once heard somebody (Clive James, I think) say that this song [Blowin' in the Wind] contains one of the most beautiful lines ever written followed by one of the most crass: How many miles must the white dove fly, before she sleeps in the sand, How many time must the cannonballs fly before they're forever banned. Similarly, I feel that there are some beautiful lines and images in Raglan Road ('And I said,"Let grief be a fallen leaf At the dawning of the day"')- but there are one or two clunkers, as well: The Queen of Hearts still making tarts And I not making hay; Oh, I loved too much and by such and such Is happiness thrown away. "And I not making hay" is strikingly artificial and awkward. As for, "by such and such" - what can I say? Okay, this: forced rhyme and meter. And the homespun idiom ("such and such") is in jarring contrast to the academic syntax. And what are we to think of the speaker making of himself an "angel" of the "true gods", while his love-object is "of clay" (not terribly flattering to her, in the context). Even though he's lost his wings by the end, there is perhaps an implication that she was not worthy of his angelic attention. Is there any reason to think the speaker is being ironic at his own expense rather than self-aggrandizing at the expense of his love-interest? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 11 Feb 07 - 07:13 PM Aaargh Jim Lad, shiver me timbers. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:16 PM Sure. Lots of evidence. I also have the three original nails fro the cross and a piece of straw from the manger. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:51 PM Pre-christian? Not likely. Any evidence?. Regards. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:02 PM I should have said " Fainne Gael En Lae" or "Along the Enchanted Way" is the original piece. It's pre- Christian so I very much doubt that you'll ever find an author. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: Jim Lad Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:35 AM Raglan Road was written By Patrick Kavanagh with not only "The Dawning of the Day" in mind but the actual title of the original tune "The Enchanted Way" which he included in the song. see also |
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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road??? From: GUEST,Bill H Date: 10 Feb 07 - 10:58 PM Ti remember the tune to the song Raglan Road being sung to a song called Faine Gheal an Lae in the late fifties in our wee school in a village called Mullaghduff in Co Donegal The tune was played in both our fife and drum bands as a marching tune called the Dawning of the day, I remeber the tune well as this was first tune I ever learned to play on the tin wihistle. I hope this is of assistance to you Regards Bill |
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