Dead air in buildings - making you sick?

Subject: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 03:49 PM

I've had a lot of trouble with this. We have a shopping mall in Orillia (Orillia Square Mall), and the air in the whole place is no damn good. You can smell the stale air the moment you walk through the door. I got a job about 10 years ago in Radio Shack in that mall. I started getting a respiratory ailment and a bad cough within less than a week of being on the job. I didn't connect it at first with the environment, and I was determined to hang in there, although the boss was absolutely the worst manager I ever had in my life, with the possible exception of my own father. Well, I remained sick for the entire 4 months I was in that store. An endless series of sore throats, chest colds, etc. I felt like death warmed over. I was also very unhappy with that job because of the manager, which didn't help any, and probably contributed to depleting my energy. I finally quit the job, and within a few days I was absolutely healthy again, breathing normal clean air at home and getting lots of outside air.

Most new plastic products give off toxic fumes. So do a lot of cleansers. Ever walk down the cleansers aisle in a big grocery store? It's like breathing chemical soup.

I hear that in Japan they put negative ion generators in a lot of their buildings to freshen the air.

Does anyone have any stories or comments to add on this subject?

- LH

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: GUEST,Pixie
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 03:57 PM

Sounds like "sick building syndrome" at the mall. Re-circulated air, probably heavily-laden with "off-gases" and mold.......no wonder you felt like the proverbial bag of sh*t. Good that you got out of there so the toxins didn't build up in your system. Always good to work somewhere that the windows actually open to the great outdoors....

I had a doctor once who told me that fresh air and excercise was the best cure for what ails ya.....I had sex with the window open alot!

Pixie

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 05:55 PM

That sounds like an excellent recovery program indeed.

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 07:25 PM

I don't know about that. Sex with the window open could cause some problems if you live on a ground floor.
You might find too many people gathered around your window heavy breathing, blowing carbon dioxide into your air space.

If you have to work in a sick building then have lots of peace lilies and one of those air purifiers that covers the square footage of the room.

Little Neo

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: campfire
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 12:24 AM

I coudn't possibly have sex with the window open as my #$%^%$#@$ neighbor is almost always puttering in his driveway - which my window opens to!!!

I have worked in buiildings where the air quality seemed to make me ill. Over-air-conditioned in the summer and such. I don't think the windows even COULD open, if I recall. Just a glass space in the wall. Fortunately now I work mostly outdoors.

Has anyone tried one of those negative ion machines? Whad'ja think?

campfire

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 08:35 AM

I have found the negative ion machines are limited in how much they can help but if you have one of those that is appropriate for the square footage of the room it is worthwhile trying in addition to having an air purifier and lots of high oxygen exchanging plants. Certain plants are better than other plants such as I was mentioning about the peace lily.

Little Neo

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Margaret V
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:06 AM

This is a subject near and dear to me, unfortunately. For follow-up information to Little Neo's suggestion of combining houseplants with an air purifier, try this link to house plants that combat indoor air pollution

Good luck. Margaret

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: GUEST,Pixie
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:11 AM

I have an Austin Air Purifier in my office, because I have no window, and I do find it removes odors of perfumes, photocopying and such. Its also great in the heat, because it creates a 35 m/p/h breeze on the "high" setting. It cost about $700 Canadian when I bought it 5 years ago. The filters should be replaced every 5 yrs or so, but I don't have mine on constantly. I can't remember how much the filters are. Anyway, I do find it works in my stuffy office, and I can maintain a thought a whole lot longer and also keep a decent energy level happening. Might want to check them out - I don't know if there is a web-site, but I'm sure someone in your area must have a connection.

Pixie

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Tig
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:42 AM

I suspect the school I'm working in at the moment of having sick building syndrome as both kids and staff have a constant stream of chest infections, colds, bugs and virii of assorted natures!

The heating consists of warm air being blown downwards by the windows and constantly being re-cycled. We can't get any decent fresh air inside as there are only tiny windows that open at the top. Somedays I actually look forwards to being on duty and going out onto the playground to breathe.

Planners - please be kind to teachers and think about fresh air.

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: sophocleese
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 03:11 PM

Air conditioning: an efficient and widely used method for spreading disease.

From John Ralston Saul's Doubter's Companion.

There was one mall that I went to in Toronto that had such lousy air my eyes were itching and I felt like sleeping five minutes after I walked into it. I don't go to malls much because they tend to make me sleepy and irritated, I end up desperate for a quiet corner to sit in.

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 06:04 PM

Yo, Soph - that wasn't the mall that was opened in 1994 was it? Has a nice marble inlay in the floor - leastways it did until Albion Morris did a dance there and cracked a bit of it...... If so - I had to get out of it too, but the worst is Toronto airport - had an asthma attack just walking through it - all the air pumped in was coming in from the concourse, all those lovely airplane fumes.... yum. Never had any trouble at any other airport.... not even smelly old Heathrow.

Our building (one of the tallest outside the square mile in London, right next to the BT (Post Office) tower, has a terrible air conditioning system, either too hot or too cold, nothing in between. Last month people were all saying they were too hot, now they are too cold. I just tell 'em to wear a vest or a thicker jumper..... As one of those who carry their own personal layer of insulation, I'm always too warm, even though it's November I'm still wearing sandals! Within 3 days of starting there I had a cold, and whenever anyone gets a cold in my office, even though I don't come into direct contact, I end up getting it. I've gone through 3 pots of lip balm in 10 months and have put on about a stone in excess fluid because I get so thirsty I drink a litre more than I do at home. OK if you get rid of it, but I have this little retention problem.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:55 PM

That reminds me of Swanmore Hall in Orillia last year where our song circle usually meets. The air conditioning used to be so glacial in there, that I would wear a jacket and scarf sometimes and drink hot tea to stay warm enough to play. Absolutely ridiculous. There didn't seem to be any way to change it either.

Then one time the heating was so hot that we became concerned that the air vents might catch fire soon...we opened all the doors and windows to let the cold air in.

Lately it has been okay...thank god.

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Margaret V
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 10:43 PM

I was just visiting Louisiana and discovered that locations below sea level have serious problems with mold...I visited a museum that made my throat constrict within twenty minutes. After about 45 minutes, my companion's head was spinning with the effects of the mold, so we got out, but it was too late. I've now got another in a long sad history of sinus infections which means I can't sing at all and probably won't be able to for another two or three weeks. This won't do, so I've decided a good investment for the New Year will be an air purifier for my apartment (won't help with musty museums, but it's a start anyway). So of the HEPA filter types (Honeywell Envirocaire, Holmes, etc.), does anyone here have a recommendation regarding the noise level of the various choices? Seems like most of them function at about the same level of particle absorption, but I'd really love a very quiet one. Thanks. Margaret

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: GUEST,in the mildew capital of the South
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 11:08 PM

Ohhhh, the dreaded Stachybotrys!!!

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Margaret V
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 07:53 AM

Er... can you tell me more? (maybe I don't want to know...) Margaret

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 09:14 AM

Watch out for air cleaners that create ozone.... it smells like bleach and it burns the eyes, as well as harming plants and pets, and presumably us! Someone pushed on e off on us after our fire last year.... we disconnected it after an hour because the burning was so bad.

~S~

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: GUEST,Margaret V. at work
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 05:35 PM

Thanks, Susan, that corroborates other opinions of ozone generators that I've read. So... doesn't anybody have any opinions on the relative quietness of the other kind of air purifier? Margaret

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 05:43 PM

Take sick building syndrome very very seriously. If you have a choice when deciding between job a and job b, and job b has a window that opens, take that and tell job a why. IN FAact, put it in writing. Make sure the higher ups know that they are losing good potential employees. If you work in a sick building, look for another job if you possibly can. Have an exit interview and tell them why. If you are involved in aplanning a building, have lots of openable windows. If you are in personnel or do hiring, find out about regulations for clean air and tell people that there will be fresh air. That can mean cold air. Tell them to wear sweaters and tell them upon hiring and put it in writing. There are more diseases caused by the 1 person who "feels a draft" in an office and therefore the windows stay shut all year than have been calculated. Find out what your children are breathing in school. I thank God every day for my beautiful fresh air where I work, even though walking to work it can be a little fresher than I like, seeing as it wants to blow me down sometimes. A price I gladly pay. mg

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Kaleea
Date: 30 Dec 01 - 12:35 AM

Yes, there really is bad air in most modern buildings. Most of which is caused only partly by poor ventilation. I happen to be in the construction industry, and we find many people have problems due to modern building materials and modern furniture which are made of products mostly man made. Therein lies the problem. The wood is rarely solid wood, but particle board made of wood "products" and chemicals including glues & formaldehyde. These chemicals emit gasses which are toxic, as in carcenogenic meaning serious respiritory deseases & cancer! The carpets & rugs nowadays are made of petroleum and emit toxic smells which a few years ago, sent me to the Dr. weeks on end, until finally I got rid of the beautiful nasty smelling rug I bought. The wall products are manmade with similar scary products, and so on. The chemicals in the furniture we buy, the petroleum products in shoes, appliances, all of these things cause many of us to have respiritory problems, not to mention burning eyes, and skin problems. So what is the answer? Many folks are buying old houses and painstakingly restoring them with solid wood, getting solid wood furniture--old used stuff is great! There are some paint which are much lower in nasty smelling toxins. (a few years ago, a popular women's magazine-can't remember which, maybe McCalls or Ladies' Home Journal did an article on all this.) Then we can rip out the carpets & resurface those glorious wood floors many midwestern homes have. Then there is the subject of perfumes in all soaps, candles, laundry products, air "fresheners", carpet cleaners, etc., which Dr.s say is one of the worst problems of indoor air pollution & send kids to the hospital with asthma attacks everyday. One of these days, our culture is going to have to realize that all that smelly stuff is keeping all the pharmaceutical companies getting richer! Any of you out there find yourself buying fragrance free stuff, or doing other things to eliminate at least some of these "modern" toxins from your environment? Let's hear it for beautiful wood guitars! Yeah, yeah, I know that my guitar has plastic, but hey, let's rationalize & say "not that much!"

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: MAG
Date: 30 Dec 01 - 01:50 PM

Since moving is on hold for now, I'm ripping out my carpet room by room so I will be sick less. Have been living with a ripped up house for a month now, as I can't find a flooring person who will lay WOOD on my concrete slab cinder block house floors.

The boss I would dearly love to escape I had to write a safety complaint against when the port-a-potty smell got to me udring a recent remodelling. She insisted the chemicals didn't make people sick. or the particle board. or the round-up the yard crew used outside.

Oh, to be back in Chicago, the only place I have ever lived my allergies didn't kick up ...

thanks for listening ...

MAG, sick of trying to live in a ripped-up house.

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: GUEST,Margaret V. at work
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 01:20 PM

Hang in there, MAG. I guess my New Year's Res. is to just keep chipping away at these things, one at a time, and create a healthy environment at least in my own home if not at work or out in the wide world. It's easy to get overwhelmed but keep ripping up that carpet. I ripped up the carpet in my office at work and it has improved air quality significantly! However, I work in an old house which is a satellite of our central office; if I worked there, nobody would have let me rip up the carpet.... Now at home I'll have to commit to cleaning a lot more often than I have done to date, as well as getting an air cleaner.

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Peg
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 11:51 AM

This is an interesting thread. I will never have carpeting in my home.

Cleaning products are very toxic too. There are some new products you can use which are non-toxic, like Simply Green. But good old-fashioned baking soda, apple cider vinegar, Murphy's Oil Soap and lemon juice are hard to beat. Bleach is another old-fashioned cleaning product which is NOT good to use!! Unless it is much diluted and only once in a while...

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Mudlark
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 10:46 PM

I get sick in: grocery stores, discount stores, libraries, especially newer ones, new houses, all trailers, agh...it is very hard to escape the chemicals, outgassing, etc. Symptoms range from mental whiteout to resp. reactions. so I no longer shop in discount stores and I limit my groc. shopping to short, well-organized bursts. At home, I researched and found what is essentially just whitewash paint....no mold inhibitors, no insecticide, no formaldehyde. For the small bit of carpeting I have, I have a very good vacuum, with a good filter. I use only clear water and vinegar for cleaning...everything...and bon ami for scrubbing out sink/toilet/tub. I have not found air cleaners to be all that helpful, and the noise drives me crazy. Neg. ion machines don't work for me either. I use old furniture, mostly wood, and all cotton bedding. I grow an organic garden. I air the house out a couple of times a day, even in cold weather, just for the air exchange...and all this has helped my sick building syndrome immensely. Good luck, Mag...it's a tough call when the world you live in makes you sick!

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From:
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 11:11 PM

good points. anyone who can rip up old carpet...I highly encourage you to do so, and don't let people wear shoes in your house..they track in lead among other things, and people spit on the streets so you are bringing that stuff home and hopefully no babies are crawling around on it...carpets are just repositories of filth...especially in my house as I am a bad housekeeper...far better a simple painted wood floor..or washable area rugs...same with drapes you can't wash....I hate stuff that can't go in the washing machine and then out in the sunshine to dry. And so many people never, absolutely never, open the windows in their homes or offices...what are they wiling to breathe? mg

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Jan 02 - 03:24 AM

I am not very susceptible to bad-air caused disease, but something weird happened on Boxing Day. Molly & I and our 2 kids were all sleeping on the second floor of an oil-heated addition to a large farmhouse--my mother-in-law was sleeping in her apartment directly underneath.

My mother-in-law was found passed-out on the ground-level bathroom floor early in the morning. She went to the hospital and was OK and home by afternoon. Still waiting for test results.

Same morning, all four of us on the floor above had splitting headaches. I NEVER get headaches--t'ain't my style at all.

Never had anything like that happen to me at work ( a sealed highrise).

Go figure....

W-O

Subject: RE: Dead air in buildings - making you sick?
From: Margaret V
Date: 02 Jan 02 - 09:28 AM

Willie-O, that sure sounds like carbon monoxide. It's heavier than oxygen so it sinks low, which might explain why your m-i-l was affected more seriously than the rest of you were. I hope they gave her some oxygen. Whoever owns the place you were staying in should absolutely check it out. There are CO detectors just like there are smoke detectors, and the oil-burner should be inspected, as it may well be malfunctioning so that the combustion is incomplete > CO. This happened to me in an old apt. just because the pilot light in my gas stove was set too high and the flame was hitting the top of the stove and somehow generating CO. I was sick for weeks before anyone figured it out, with splitting headaches, flushed face, dizziness.... and my cat kept hanging out on top of my refrigerator, presumably because she was smarter than I was about where the better air was located (I slept on a futon on the floor, so I was in the worst possible spot...). Take care. Margaret