Psudo Celtic cr*p?

Subject: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Fred/Forsh
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 02:06 AM

I read somewhere on these pages, someone describe a certain style of music as "Psudo Celtic Crap", Why? I for one would encourage any young person to pick up an instrument and play, particularaly those who may hail from Ireland...sooner they pick up a whistle and fiddle to "modernise" Celtic lyric and style, than thay pick up a Gun, or worse, join a manufactured Boy Band! any music with it's roots in traditional music is to be applauded, What say you, 'cats?

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: BigDaddy
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 02:31 AM

I agree there's room for much interpretation with Celtic derived music. There's a lot that doesn't appeal to me, so if I don't like it, I don't listen to it. Better the flood of varying quality that we have now than the situation even 20 years ago when it was difficult to find traditional Irish/Scots/Welsh etc.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: MARINER
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 04:59 AM

Unfortunately a lot of this new Celtic Cr*p is being foisted on us by new age traveller types(crusties) who have little knowledge or love for the music. It seems all they need is any acoustic instrument and any type of drum, African preferably. Bang the bejasus out of it, and hey presto! you're a Celtic revivalist. I'm one of those who believe that the current spate of drum driven street groups are the last refuge of the talentless. Sad to say, here in Ireland many of these "groups" are supported by an Irish Government Agency employment scheme. And don't worry Fred/Forsh despite the common perception very, very few pick up a gun, it's a pity the same can't be said of Boy Bands .The Boy Band craze has taken on in a big way.Ronan Keating has even started to record grown up songs. I recently heard him sing "The town I loved so well". He really shouldn't have bothered, it only prooved just how limited his "talent" is. He should stick to insipid copies of pop from yesteryear. When Ihear these lads sing their versions of old hits I often wonder why?, whats the point.Often its impossible to better the original, so why record it.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 09:39 AM

First, put yourself in their place.

It is quite conceivable (however you spell that) that a person could reach age 30 in today's society and never have heard a melody sung in tune or an orchestral piece played on a real instrument.

(Actually, you could go quite a long time without ever hearing an actual melody, much less one played in tune.)

No wonder these pop stars cannot resist the seductive power of the old music, even though they cannot completely shuck the cliches of their-lives-up-to-now.

As an example, a couple weeks ago I was out pulling weeds while carpenters worked on a house across the street. They had the radio turned to a rock station (I know that's what it was, because the announcer announced it every few minutes.) They had the same band doing cut after cut, and the vocalist was a male, probably white and trying to sound black. He was just ravaging his voice, singing a harsh, gutteral style which is sure to ruin your voice before long. However, anything for a buck!

The pieces were all alike - no variety. Now there's cr*p for you!

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Lucius
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 10:01 AM

One man's ceiling is another man's floor. Personally, the Riverdance cr*p sends me up a wall. Most of my Cape Breton step dancing friends feel the similarly about Riverdance. But I figure that if one youngster gets enthused by Riverdance and begins to look for something more substaintial, then it may have proved its worth. In my politer moments I prefer to think of it as an "introduction" rather than cr*p.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:43 AM

I've volunteered and performed at Celtic festivals and there's been times when I've wondered if some musicians didn't forum-shop a bit much, as if they couldn't make it in one music genre so they tried another and were simply passing through a mock Celtoid phase when I encountered them.

Most folks change their approach to the music once they educate themselves about it. Either they back off entirely or they adopt a more genuine, um...less naive or pretentious, interpretation. Some of the rock-celt stuff is more honest to my ears than the new-age-celt stuff. And it's more fun.

Of course, I'm still overwhelmed by a Lunasa performance last August, and 2 cd's which astound me. Sounds pure celt and moves like no rock or new-age pretender ever has.

Peace. Mooh.

Subject: The celts are extinct!
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 12:47 PM

Another mans floor... LOL!!

or put it like I do... 98% of EVERYTHING is crap!

Play what ya want, how ya want... if I don't like it, i won't listen... easy as that eh...

:-)

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Fred/Forsh
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 01:38 PM

Thankyou people for your responses to date; I would agree with most of what all of you have to say, It is important to get kids to pick up an instrument, to learn a song that reflects their country's folk heritage. If the "Psudo stuff servers as an introductio, to them and to their pears, then it is to be applauded, or at least, encouraged......mind you, Riverdance is one of my favourit laxatives also!! And I am also pondering the 98% crap theory, and wondering which is the song that I perform that isn't!!

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 01:38 PM

Mooh, what were those two CDs?

ww

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Greyeyes
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 02:10 PM

I was disturbed to hear somewhere recently that a lot of young "pop stars" use a piece of software in recording studios that corrects their singing to within 1/5 of a note if they're out of tune. So they are even less talented than they appear, and even artificially corrected they sound crap.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Lucius
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 02:14 PM

Wow, 1/5 of a note!! If only Bob Dylan had one of those, he may have gone somewhere ;)

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 02:40 PM

IT'S TRUE! Not only can the engineer make "the flat sing on key", but you can change a note from a C up to a D! I know 'cause on my album "This One's The Dreamer" one of the back-up singers hit a "questionable" but not "wrong" harmony note. Engineer and Mudcatter Paul Mills, said "don't worry, we'll change it during the mix". He did!

Rick

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: pict
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 04:43 PM

Antares autotune is probably the software they use you can hear it everywhere these days.I always get a laugh when I hear these boy/girl wonders doing it live without the studio technology they are totally woegeous yet they really believe their own marketing hype they probably think singing in demi-semi tone scales is the norm and to be fair they are true innovators who have brought to music and made commonplace such wonderful vocal harmonies as A flat tormented or D sharp extinguished.

As for the pseudo Celtic crap I think a lot of people hearing commercialised music that borrows aspects of Celtic traditional music may be put off thinking that these examples are indicative of Celtic music generally.Personally I'm sick of this "my grannies budgies cousin is Scottish/Irish/Welsh/Breton and they taught me this song"that I see so often these days.Any old crap can get away with being called Celtic these days if it has a bit of uillean pipes and a few bars of generally badly played feadag particularly of your surname starts with O' or Mac.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 05:16 PM

I know what crap is, but what's a feadag?

Squint-Nose Willie-O McCameron

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Matt_R
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 05:35 PM

The black hole of negativity opens it portals once again.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: MARINER
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 05:42 PM

Wilie O' Feadog is the Irish word for Whistle, another instrument that's much abused, but not as much as the bodhran. Listening to some exponents of the Bodhran I'm reminded of Seamus Ennis who replied when asked "Whatis the best way to play the bodhran?", "With a penknife!!"

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: alison
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 06:56 PM

WW... the 2 CDs are by the group "Lunasa"

the first one is called "Lunasa" & I can't find the other one at the moment...... wonderful stuff

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: poet
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 07:16 PM

Why!!!

do you expect to like/approve of the music of this generation when the previous generation to you didnt like the music of your generation. in most cases this is a deliberate act of rebellion on the part of the younger generation involved.
Now i am older than most and I have'nt liked anything since 1964 but I do not regard the music since as crap I just recognise it as DIFFERENT.
With regard to Celtic Music I believe that the fact fact that the young are moving away from the martial and nationilistic music that has been their heritage for the last two hundred years is a sign of hope. a sign that the young are thinking for themselves. after all what may have been right and neccasary 50 or even 20 yrs ago is not neccasarily right today.

Graham (Guernsey)

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Matt_R
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 07:19 PM

Thank you, Graham.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 07:26 PM

I saw N'Sync live on Saturday Night Live.They had them on a basketball-court-at-night set,wearing tennis shoes,jeans,sports jersies singing accapella 5-part harmony,and they were amazing.You may not like their "boy-band" brand of music,but they have talent and,apparently,discipline.And it's not all done in the studio,from what I saw.

"Pseudo-Celtic Crap" is another aspect of the commercialization of ethnic music into pop.Every frigging car commercial you see now,even if the car is driving down a beach in Oahu, seems to have pipes and penny-whistles in the background.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Matt_R
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 07:33 PM

Something wrong with that? Personally, I love the thumping techno car commercials.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 07:36 PM

Hey Rick...

Was that before or after Paul got all that practce 'tweaking' From Coffee House To Concert Hall??

LOL!!!!!

:-)

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: pict
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 08:16 PM

It's not a generational thing the majority of pop music now is total cac I like music from many eras but the last 10-15 years has seen probably the worst pop music ever made imo.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 08:18 PM

Alison and Wyo, the Lunasa cd's I have are "Lunasa" and "Otherworld". These are as wonderful to me this year as Simon Mayor was a couple of years ago. Fantastic stuff!

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 08:23 PM

Oops. I think those Lunasa cd's are on the label, Green Linnet, though one might be self released. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Matt_R
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 10:19 PM

Come mothers and fathers throughout the land
And don't criticize what you don't understand
Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand
For the times they are a-changin'

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Troll
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 10:54 PM

Sorry Matt_R. but Dylan was talking politics, not music. Bad music is bad music is bad music no matter how old or new it is.
When true talent changes something, you KNOW it. It is also easy to spot those who are just along for the ride because it's the current "in" thing.

troll

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Matt_R
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:39 PM

Vivaldi and Bach where virtually unknown in their time. Rubenstein said Tchaikovsky's Piano Concert was "unplayable tripe". Rossini was booed in his own country. Critics detested Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique. Fights broke out in concert halls over the hatred for Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps. Troll, your statement is flawed. One man's trash is another man's treasure. And you must be a special seer of wisdom indeed, if you know what Bob Dylan's songs are "about".

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:53 PM

and everybody said Fabian sucked even though he did

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Troll
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 12:33 AM

I am, kid. I was there. I was part of what Dylan was writing about.
You had an ok argument going until you childishly sucumbed to the desire to put me down,so I'll say this just once: you are a talented and intelligent young man, but you don't want to get into a pissing contest with me. You haven't had the practice at being nasty that I have had.You put yourself out in front and give people 'way too much ammunition.
You keep your words soft and sweet and I'll do the same.

troll

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: IvanB
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 01:28 AM

Sorry, Troll, but I was part of the Dylan era too, and I don't think 'The Times They Are A'Changin' was all about politics. Yes, it had a verse addressing senators and congressmen, but the song was addressing more than politics - it was about all the ideas, philosophies and mores that were held so dear by our society and which the youth of the time (I among them) were throwing out wholesale. I think Matt may have somewhat trivialized the message of the song by his use of it for this particular argument, but I'd never look upon it as just a political song.

And Matt has a point. I saw a statement somewhere above about it often being impossible to better the original. I think that's hogwash. Yes, something can be done differently from the original and it may not appeal to those who like the original, but that doesn't make it any better or worse. If it's bad, it'll eventually sink to its level, if not, it'll gain its own accepting audience and will last.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: MARINER
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 06:50 AM

Troll and IvanB, Is that the same "Rebel" Bob Dylan who sings for corporate clients you're referring to??. O.K. maybe he didn't jump on a bandwagon in the begining, he just created one for himself.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: John P
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 09:28 AM

Does anyone really believe that there are musicans playing "Celtic" music because they think they are going to get rich off it? Yes, Irish stuff is relatively popular right now, but not if you compare it to mainstream pop music. It is easy for us to think that it is everywhere because it is a lot more places than it used to be, but the fact is that is is still mostly invisible to the mainstream.

I think people play Irish music because they like it. If they are a New Age musician, they play it in a New Age style. If they are rock musician, they play it in a rock style. The same for Afro/Cuban/techno dance groove musicians. If you don't like New Age/rock/world music, you probably won't like Irish music played by New Age/rock/world musicians. No one says you have to. People will take the traditional music and go off in different directions with it. There's nothing stopping them from doing so, and they are not hurting anything -- certainly they are not hurting the "The Tradition"; it seems to be doing just fine without them.

I grew up playing rock music, so my own tastes tell me that Irish music works better in a rock setting than in a new age, jazz, or world-beat setting. Since I've been playing pretty much acoustic trad music for several years, I now understand that very few Celtic rock bands get it right -- I would like to see a deeper understanding of both genres in a fusion. Some of the Scandinavian bands are finding the blend pretty well.

John

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 09:42 AM

It seems to me that to draw any sort of correlation between the criticism of current music styles and that of, for example the Baroque era, misses one crucial point. We now enjoy a wealth of musical variables the breadth of which didn't always exist. These variables have acceptance in huge segments of society, some apart from one another, and some enjoyed together by the same peoples. We are no longer offended so much as surprised by outrageous new forms or interpretations of music.

Talented composers have always pushed the envelop of acceptance (so to speak), but I wouldn't put the current crop of celtic-crapoid interpreters in the same catagory as some of the composers noted in above postings. There are some wonderful composers today practicing in the celtic style (Simon Mayor comes to mind), but so many are waana-bes that it's hard to wade through the crap to get to the substance.

Yes, one man's trash is another's treasure, as Matt will point out, but I have to wonder why, trash or treasure, why aren't the recyclables removed first? As for whether music is any good, for heaven's sake we should know by now that it takes a generation or so for the cream to rise to the top in this business, and for the shit to decompose.

I'm more inclined to agree with Troll on this issue and I know it would help if Matt would post his opinion along with the quotes because the quotes alone don't say, or aren't read, to mean what he really means, IMHO. And, if I may add, getting into pissing contests with those who are experienced around here (but don't always choose to impress each other with our knowledge of music lyrics), only serves to enforce naivete.

It's Sunday morning and I'm venting. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 10:00 AM

John P. I was venting while you were posting. I agree, I don't think that anyone expects to get rich off the performance of celtic music, but they might just want to survive. That's okay with me, but I wish they'd spend more time researching the music before they jump on the trend. And if they just want to cash in, I wish they'd do it in pop music where that attitude is expected (but no less repugnant to me).

I rather enjoy the crossover of music styles, when it's done with musicianship and originality, and sincerity. Rock stylists (I was raised on Zeppelin and Stones as much as Bach and Ralph Vaughan Williams) don't get it right very often when it comes to the Celtic thing. Maybe it's less an influence than an affectation.

Vent almost over. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Troll
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 11:02 AM

IvanB I agree that it wasn't just about politics. I should have been less specific. Our whole world was changing at that time and things were very confused and confusing.
Dylan was only one of many who were speaking out and asking questions, challenging authority, and going in new directions.
The good stuff endures, the crap dies. There will always be those who look to see which way the wind is blowing the trash and jump out front shouting,"Follow me!"

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: guinnesschik
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 11:26 AM

As a less than traditional "Celtic" musician, I have to uphold and defend whichever psuedo celtic cr*p that comes from the soul. Both my maternal and paternal families are Scot/Irish, but we're American (Texan) as well, so the music we make is well seasoned with that. However, I am so sick of hearing Garth Brooks sing "Ireland" (barf!) and the Dixie Chicks with their soulless little Celtic music blurp "Ready To Run" (gak!). IMHO, it's not about how well it's done, but how much it's felt.

So there.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Magpie
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 11:49 AM

How about live and let live?

There have always been good musicians, bad musicians and in-between musicians, and there always will be. The bad ones will be forgotten, as someone has already mentioned, and the good ones will endure. Maybe even some of the "bad" ones will endure too, but then that will be because someone actually likes them. Some musicians have the ability to touch their listeners, even if their talent (whatever that is) is limited. If nobody had ever dared venture into something they didn't know, then everything would be at a standstill. And that would be boring! Besides, if nobody played worse than you, you wouldn't be better than them. So let them just do what they want to do, and turn the radio off if it offends you.

Magpie

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 02:56 PM

Guinnesschik. Can it be well done if it's not well felt?

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Greyeyes
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 04:08 PM

It is of course true that just as every generation throws a hero up the pop charts, so every generation has thrown up a load of crap to go with it. The difference at the moment is the sheer quantity of manufactured talentless dross. It is creating a generation of consumers who just don't understand how to listen to and appreciate music, and even more worryingly, it is denying a generation of musicians, singers and songwriters who have genuine talent and ability the natural forum that should provide them with the spring board they need, because they don't fit the stereotypical image that the money men have deemed necessary.

I am talking exclusively from a UK perspective here, I don't know what the situation is like in the US, but last year there was a banner headline in the "Observer" arts section one week (this is a heavyweight broadsheet sunday newspaper) "is this the worst year in the history of pop music?". It is not the case that there is no good pop music around. My CD collection includes Pulp, Blur, Oasis, Radiohead, and The Manic Street Preachers. "This is my Truth Tell me Yours" (Manics) is probably my most played CD of the past 18 months, and I think "OK Computer" is one of the most outstanding albums of the last 10 years.

This isn't about negativity on the Mudcat, it is about a really worrying trend in popular music that is resulting in artists becoming successful simply as a result of the amount of time and money spent on grooming and manufacturing them, and doctoring the sounds they make, and indoctrinating their young audience into believing that this is what they want to listen to.

Matt_R I've heard you on Paltalk, and I've read some of your posts about the music you like, and I've heard enough people talk about your talent and taste to think that either things are spectacularly different in the US, or you are over reacting because you think we're all old and reactionary.

In the UK the way things are going is worrying. Jarvis Cocker nearly gave up on PULP because it was taking so long to break through. If he was struggling for recognition now I don't think he'd stand a chance. He's skinny and ugly and too old. His brilliance as a songwriter and performer would be ignored.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: guinnesschik
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 05:17 PM

Mooh, I honestly believe that one can be a slick, polished, technically flawless musician and be totally lacking in soul. I've seen and heard it happen too many times. Technical proficiency does not great music make.

Maybe I just like my stuff with a rougher edge, but The Chieftains have it all. They are the genuine article, are all masters at their instruments, and play with such joy and abandon.

Cheers!

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 06:28 PM

Mooh, I've got to go with with Guinesschik's comment "I honestly believe that one can be a slick, polished, technically flawless musician and be totally lacking in soul. I've seen and heard it happen too many times. Technical proficiency does not great music make."

In a word - Sinatra. Technically faultless and brilliant, but still totally soulless, and therefore for me just not worthy of attention.

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 06:32 PM

I know Sinatra's not Celtic, but that's the kind of purely mechanical singing, where the words mean nothing to the singer , that turns me off.

But most of the boy bands and celt wannabes don't even have a fraction of Sinatra's talent, even though they match him in lack of soul.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 07:32 PM

Snuffy and Guinnesschik. What? All I said was "can it be well done if it's not well felt?" Of course it can be polished etc etc, but seriously the comment was to say that if music is not done with genuine sincere feeling, then it is not well done. There are charts and stations full of music which is well performed and slicker than cat shit on linoleum, but is not well done because it's as pretentious or insincere or contrived or false-hearted as it can be. My question was intended more as a retorical comment with an understood answer of "no". Sorry if I hadn't made that clear. Balls, soul, spirit or whatever is that ineffable element which can't be faked, while most other characteristics of music may be.

Hmmm. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Suffet
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 09:30 PM

This current thread has taken the phrase "synthesized pseudo-Celtic crap" out of conext from the thread THEY'RE NOT WRITING FOLKSONGS. The phrase appears there in a song critical of the music business. The stanza in which the phrase appears is copied below. Sing it to the tune of "Danville Girl" or "East Texas Red" in 3/4 time.

The Irish rebel songs are gone,
And the Scots and Welsh as well.
The music company executives say,
That stuff just doesn't sell.
But synthesized pseudo-Celtic crap,
Lines the shelves of my music store.
And they're not writing folk songs,
Like they used to anymore.

Far from "dissing" Celtic music, the original song lyrics honor it.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: guinnesschik
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 10:13 PM

Gotcha, Mooh. Not enough inflection on the screen here to specify a rhetorical comment. Hope I didn't come across as snippy.

;-)g'chik

Subject: The Celts Are Extinct...
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 12:24 AM

"The Irish rebel songs are gone"???

Well, thanks gods for THAT!

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 09:05 AM

OK, the song was supposed to be funny because of its over-exaggerations, but some people didn't want to see the humor, preferring to find something negative to be upset about, or were incapable of seeing the humor.

There's a difference between adding things to music just to make it more commercial and stretching creative wings. Where I think it fits is based on my own perception and applies only to me.

I don't particularly care for the term "Celtic" because it strips away the connection between living communities of people and their music, and lumps it all together. There's no more highland bagpipe music or tales about how, when and where the music and instrument has been played. It's not Scottish, it's "Celtic." It sounds nice with electric guitars and a techno beat. "Irish" refers to people, culture, and nation. "Celtic" refers to a set of related languages, none of which a person has to know to sing or play the music.

In any case, I don't quibble about the word "Celtic" when people use it in conversation. I understand what they mean...probably.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 09:06 AM

This is the first time I've seen anyone treat the word "crap" as a profanity that needs to be disguised with an asterisk. Interesting.

Magpie said most of what I want to say. If you don't like what's on the radio, don't listen to it. Most of it is crap, but most of it always was crap. Look at a "top 40" list from any era you care to focus on, and you'll find more bad stuff than good stuff (romanticized recollections of the 60's notwithstanding). I don't care for pop radio, and I don't consider it relevant to what I do, so it doesn't really bother me (unless they insist on playing it in restaurants and other public places).

I think people should blend whatever musical elements thay want, in whatever way they want, and only try to conform to the tradition if that's what suits them. In my opinion most of the great musical developments in history have been the result of blending of seemingly disparate styles. Sure, that has produced a lot of crap too, but I will suffer the bad stuff so as to allow the good stuff to emerge.

Subject: RE: Psudo Celtic cr*p?
From: Grab
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 11:22 AM

The music business goes through "phases", where someone gets successful and fashionable, and everyone copies them. In the 50s, rock'n'roll and blues were fashionable (courtesy of Chuck Berry, Elvis, etc), and the Beatles tagged onto that. Later, the Beatles were instrumental (sorry!:) in popularising the hippy music scene. The 70s was punk, following groups like the Sex Pistols. In the 80s the synth took off, courtesy of Kraftwerk, Joy Division et al. In the 90s, every bugger and his dog was trying to sound like the Gallagher brothers (and since they're both dogs at singing, this ain't hard ;-) We've just had a bit of a revival of Latin pop music, with Ricky Martin, Geri Halliwell and co. And now Ronan Keating and the Corrs are getting results, expect to see more "Oirish" pop songs.

Someone needs to take a chance on it first. For all their faults, the Corrs and Ronan Keating took it on bcos they wanted to. They got fairly successful with it. Now other groups have seen it happen, they'll try and imitate the formula, and record companies will see a trend forming and try to follow it.

Can't be all bad though. The Latin craze saw a huge rise in ppl having a go at Latin dancing. If a similar Irish pop period happens, maybe more ppl will get into traditional music. And that's no bad thing to hope for. They'll see it's not the mass-produced stuff that they've heard on the radio, and hopefully they'll appreciate the depth of the real thing over the frosting of the commercial version.

Grab.