BS: Really pissed off with America

Subject: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST,does it matter?
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:00 PM

i'm really angry

to reiterate oft quoted figures: the US has 4% of the world's population, yet produces over half of the pollution.

but do you care?

sure some of you do, but recent threads such as this one, suggest that many of you don't.

I know that anti-American threads don't go down too well here, but given the American position in the latest global climate conference, I think you should be very ashamed. Better, do something!

John H

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:12 PM

I wish I had the right, as an American, to be resentful of your post. I have no such right, because you have the right of it.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:21 PM

Dave your willingness to wear the 'hair shirt' and not rise to the bait is worthy of respect. As a non-American I do object to the wording of the initial post.

This is a serious issue and not one where blaming any nation and their millions of individuals, will move us on very much. Their are many Americans who do care and are doing what they can.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with Americ
From: GUEST,Mickey191
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:22 PM

Dear Guest, Please tell me what is America's Position at the conference which has you so angry.Thank you. Slainte.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:34 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:38 PM

Yes Dave. I agree with Shambles, a fine job.

We are part of a global community and we do overconsume and overpollute in this country. Many around here at the 'Cat are not in that category though and Guest is preaching to the congregation. And even if not, all these threads ever succeed in doing is in elevating the flame.

Let's not play. Guest has had his/her say. Thanks.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:40 PM

Shambles,

I only blame America because America is the nation most at fault.

The American position is a big issue

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:46 PM

Catspaw / Shambles / DaveO etc

OK, you accept it, you might not like it, it might annoy that it takes up mudcat bandwidth.

Are you prepared to do anything about it?

I doubt it...

When the world dies it will be America's fault, you'll still not get it then

Subject: Really pissed off with HUMANS!
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:55 PM

When the world dies???

What arrogence!!

The human race will not destroy the world... we will pollute the eco-sphere to the point where we can no longer survive in it and we'll die out.. in the procress we'll take a huge number of species with us... but in about 1000 years or so the planet will have completly healed itself and all that will be left of the great legacy of the human race will be a few left over plastic bags...

And hopefully, for the sake of the planet, that'll be the last time that evolution ever decides to deal the consiousness card...

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 06:57 PM

The USA, having developed in a fortuitous area for the last 300 years, has indeed become rather obvious in using 'more than our fair share'......It is true, however, that many other countries mine, chop, pollute and waste to excess...they simply are smaller and not as obvious. It would be good if the USA would set a better example, especially since we have the technology and research facilites to do so. I know that many fine Americans would be glad to see us do better, but it IS hard to change the direction of an economic/industrial juggernaut quickly....(it is barely 30 years or so since the world in general began to realize that this needed to be done.)......I would love it if, in my lifetime, the USA's bad image in these matters were changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:00 PM

Bill D

How about getting involved instead of just wishing??

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: guinnesschik
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:05 PM

Guest:

What are YOU doing besides pointing a finger?

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:07 PM

Bill,

Don't blame small countries...

The US has the worst record per capita, or by any other way you might choose to measure by.

You are the greediest, most selfish country in the world, and you can't argue against that, because it's true

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:17 PM

<YAWN>

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:20 PM

Boy, I just saw that I was so pissed at America that I was speachless.....

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:21 PM

Jon, don't you care?

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:23 PM

Sorry Jon, I forgot that you can't even be bothered to get a job

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:27 PM

Aw c'mon folks.....Let's not play this one too huh???

Guest, here's a site for you and I think it makes all your points......CLICK HERE

Now why don't the rest of us go shopping for Super Belchfire SUV's or something............geeziz................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:32 PM

Spaw,

Fair comment. You miss something however....

Global Warming is the most important problem facing mankind.

The Americans are the worst polluters in the world.

The Americans seem the least inclined to care or do anything about it.

Sorry if this spoils your day, your attitude is killing the planet

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:33 PM

So how is Karen today spaw, is she still getting better?

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:35 PM

I love that site, Spaw!!! It's on my favorites....excuse me while I go burn my garbage....

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:40 PM

Hey Jon.......Thanks for asking, I was going to post in a bit, but things are really looking good for her to be home tomorrow. The pro-time was almost at therapeutic levels and the doc was real happy, saying that tomorrow is likely. She has a roomie now who has tons of family that is there all the time and they're pretty loud....nice folks, but that kind of thing drives you nuts. She said she was ready to do cartwheels down the hall to get out!!!

Tomorrow is Michael's birthday and he thinks that'd be a "cool" present. Of course he's already gotten all of his presents so its easier to look at Mom coming home as a "present."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:57 PM

I'd like to follow Spaw's lead on this but I do have an actual suggestion: Why don't the people of all other powerful nations unite and with one organized, sustained effort shroud the US government with a blanket of their concern? As we know, world condemnation has an effect; if the three arms of government are convinced of its seriousness they will mandate that American businesses change their habits. i can't imagine a better use for the projected fiscal surplus than to make it possible for Americans to change.

The only reason I think that won't happen is that the other nations will not band together to accomplish it.

And if you can't, you'll understand why we can't.

How about them Mets?

ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:10 PM

Spaw, I wonder how much the irritation factor associated with being in a hospital has to do with recovery rate.

I'm glad to hear Karen may be home soon! Make her take it easy when she gets there.

GUEST, you can get as pissed off as you want, I'm not joining you. From the way you worded your first post, and especially from your subsequent posts, it doesn't appear as if you give a shit about pollution - only starting a fight. Maybe someone will want to play with you. In any case, have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:10 PM

.....glad to hear that she is better, spaw. I know you will all be happier when Karen is back being Mom....hope you are all back to the routine very soon..*smile*

(I'd type more, but I have my recycling to do, and several petro-chemical plants to monitor for emissions....as well as converting my van to run on the excess methane from my Mexican dinners. Now if only my wind-powered generator will generate enough volts to run my printer so I can do the posters for the anti-whaling protest!)

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:12 PM

That is great news spaw and hopefully will be a great birthay present for Michael.

Jon

Subject: ya ya ya...
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:17 PM

There is still NO empirical data to prove that the current warming trend IS, infact, global warming due to pollution, and not just a planetary trend... Like what happened about 1000 years ago to allow mild enough weather for the vikings to cross the Atlantic...

Show me an unbiased study...

And if you feel so strongly about it, why hide behind the GUEST handle? Have the courage to stand up for your beliefs or go piss up some other rope...

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:18 PM

Spaw, from your own experience I'm sure you remember that there is almost inevitably an adrenalin let down when you get home, no matter how eager you were to leave the hospital. So baby her for awhile.

I'm very glad she's done so well. Best wishes to all of you.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:23 PM

The thread pointed to by Guest John H is a fairly good indication that most mudcatting Americans are as concerned as anyone else. If he bothers to read it, he will see that sunspots as well as human efforts seem to be implicated in global warming.

For the benefit of any newcomer who may think otherwise, I'm not defending the human contribution - but I don't see how John H has time to be posting here when he should be out there with his garden hose, putting out sunspots.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: kendall
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:24 PM

Just to set the record straight..the worst problem the world has is over population. Why do you think the rain forest is being cut down? why is the elephant being pushed out of existence? Too many people thats why. You cant lay that one on the USA. By the by, my home is heated with natural gas, and I drive an underpowered vehicle.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Ely
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:25 PM

Sorry to perpetuate this thread, but Mudcat strikes me as an ironic target for this kind of flaming, both because it has such a large non-American membership, and because it has seemed to me that we are a group of people that lean toward ecologically friendly measures more than a lot of other groups I can think of. At least, I've seen posts from a fair number of vegetarians and vegans, and we seem to tolerate SUV-bashing pretty well. I don't dare SUV-bash at home (Texas has that lovely combination of large-vehicle obsession and concealed handgun licensing).

I understand GUEST's frustration, but I can't stand blanket assumptions and to go for the throats of all of us regardless of nationality or ecological awareness is, at best, extremely unfair. Furthermore, the anti-pollution Americans among us are fully aware of the problem and are at least as frustrated as GUEST that we can't get the rest of the country to do follow our examples.

Until then, I will continue to recycle everything I can (which is not always easy in the US, where recycling facilities and services are lacking or nonexistent in many areas), drive cars that get high gas mileage (and not drive them at all when I can), and vote against political candidates who don't care about the air I breathe or the water I drink if it makes them a buck.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: pict
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:25 PM

C'mon Clinton even if it was a planetary trend that's no excuse for pollution.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:33 PM

I doubt if Ebbie's suggestion "Why don't the people of all other powerful nations unite and with one organized, sustained effort shroud the US government with a blanket of their concern?" would really do the trick. Being criticised by foreigners brings out the worst in most people in most countries. And if anything that goes double for Americans.

You may remember the eruption of rage over the mere title of a thread on the Mudcat (Why are Americans so f*t?), which involved what I felt as a bystander was really a pretty trivial kind of implied criticism.

I predict that the more the criticism is seen as coming from abroad, the more it will be seen by many Americans as a patriotic gesture to drive a gas-guzzling car and so forth.

I think this is something that Americans are only going to change for themselves, even though the impact of delays in changing are pretty terrifying for the rest of us.

Fortunately the voices calling out loudest for change do often tend to be American voices, so we can just hope they get across to enough fellow Americans to turn things around before too much devastation has been caused elsewhere. Slim hope, but the best we've got I suppose. And of course work by example rather than by direct criticism - and we've an awful, long way to go in the Eurpoean Union to become a good example.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:42 PM

gee, Kendall, how'd two old curmudgeons like us come to agree so well?? Over population IS the main problem.(.see my post on the Global warming thread)

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: John P
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:51 PM

Why don't I do something about it? I do, every day. There was a copy of a book laying around at work, I think it was called "100 Things You Can Do To Save The Planet" or something like that. I flipped through it realized I was already doing all of them, as a matter of course. Most of the people I know are doing most of them as well.

I suppose you want me to become politically involved and organize rallies or something? Would that really solve the problem? What should I give up to make time for this? My job? My family? Playing music? I can only take responsibility for my own waste products, and since I don't buy much of anything that includes or is wrapped in garbage, my waste is fairly light.

I have to agree with Kendall. Most of the serious problems facing the world right now are due to overpopulation. Guest, give us a call when you got that one solved, everywhere in the world. Oh -- you are, of course, a vegetarian?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 08:51 PM

Ebbie, you can bet on her being well pampered....if that's possible around here. You get sort of invalided and institutionalized and you get well better at home. We talked today about how odd it feels to come home after this....and it does. The feeling passes quickly though.

The population problem is still significant and I have a few ideas on alleviating the pressure starting with the top of this thread.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 09:25 PM

Gee, Guest, I love how you know how each and every single solitary person is conducting their lives here in the US. What do YOU drive? How do you heat your house? What about groceries? Do you pay attention to packaging? I loathe blanket statements. For that matter, just where do you document your statistics? Just how well documented are they? Hmmmm? Or do you plan on hiding behind the title Guest forever?

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 09:56 PM

Right now, we in America are or should be preoccupied with saving our constitution and our National Identity from the ravages of the mob tactics which have so intimidated the election governors of certain parts of the State of Florida in recent days. The presidency of the U.S.A. is in danger of being stolen by tactics not unlike those used by John D. Rockefeller when he mounted machine guns on railroad cars and killed striking coal miners to secure what he wanted. After we take care of this problem, we'll look at what you have said. You are correct.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Banjer
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 10:01 PM

'Spaw I'm glad to hear that Michael is looking forward to Karen's arrival as a birthday present! That is neat. I would think as you said that she will recuperate much better at home in familiar surroundings. Incidentaly, I vote with you on the reduction of the population problem. Imagine someone not having enough fortitude to use a name, but hide behind the guest handle. Tell Karen hi from all of us here and may her getting back into the familiar routine do her much good.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Troll
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 10:26 PM

Clinton is correct. There is NO -I repeat- NO hard evidence that global warming is (a) a reality or-if it exists-(b) caused by pollution. Scientists with the same data have arrived at opposite conclusions. If you want a good read on the subject, try "Voodoo Science". Sorry, I don't remember the author.
Guest simply wants a fight and to bash the US a bit. As Jon said,"<yawn>". It's too easy Guest. Besides, you need to do a little research. Take the former USSR for example. Because of their greed and shortsightedness, the Aral Sea is, to all intents and purposes, very nearly dead. The only comparable body of water in the US is the Great Lakes complex and at last count they were in passable health. Could be better but not at deaths door.
The rain forest in Brazil isn't doing too well. There is massive pollution in China.Desertification in the Sahel and India is about to burst at the seams with people as is China.
Maybe you ought to try a group that is not as aware and well read as Mudcat.You might be able to get your jollies a little easier.
Pict, you are correct of course; no excuse for pollution.
Kendall, according to Malthus, overpopulation will take care of itsself. And I drive a 3-cylinder car and live in a warm climate so I don't need to use so much natural gas for heat. I'm ahead of you! Nyah!

troll *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Troll
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 10:28 PM

"Spaw, glad to head Karen's coming home. Happy Days!

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: mountain tyme
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 11:23 PM

Hay John H GUEST. You mite'a GUEST wrong some. I fer one be really glad ya posted this thread. First ya gotta realize wen ya take a good deep look at this here USA curiosity it be pure Zen in action. Till ya mentioned it I almost fergot how much fun it is ta be a'have'n USA on my passport. I jus got back from a 400/800 mile trip wot I took ta play my banjo wif some frens. I was buyin $160 gasoline all day runnin my 8 litre along thet interstate an at 75 mph I be gettin 4 mpg a'fun, cept wen I be jus settin at idle ta run my two airconditioners whilst eat'n a sack'a methane burgers. Now if ya no yur history ya no all the best folks from all over the world come to this piece'a property 300 or so years ago an worked real hard an got it right. I sure don't mind if yer jus a'bit jealous but ya better not mess with it or this here vetrin will grab onta Teddy Rosevelts big stick once again an rap ya some. Not a threat, jus a promise. If ya ain't havin fun John jus try ta catch up partner. If yur thinkin I not be as concerned as you bout this immaginay "polution problem" I'll tell ya I do my part wen I ken. Example, tomorrow I be doin the legal thing, i'm gonna rake up all them messy wet fall leaves inta sacks an drag em in the house ta burn in thet fireplace cause "open burning" be frowned a'pon by some idjuts here abouts. I been savin 2 litre plastic soda bottles all summer fer kindlin jus ta get that fire a'goin. If yur wantin ta understand "pollution" scroll on back up an see wot Kendall sed. He's a wizzard an won't set ya wrong no way. He'll even sing it to ya if ya don't get it firs tyme round. Thanks again fer a wonderfilled idear thread John. Now sew up yur a'hole an participate. An one more thin, the onliest folks really worried about thet immaginary "global warming" is them real estate folks in Florida. Trust me on thet! Have a nice day John. We know ya mean well. Breathe deep, enjoy! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 11:55 PM

It's easy for Guest to flame America, because that doesn't mean it (Guest, that is) has to change anything it is doing. It's up to US to change OUR behavior. Guest, rather than blame other people and accuse others of wrongdoing, why not look at what YOU are doing wrong, and work on fixing that? If we all worked on our own problems, either as individuals or as nations, the world would be a lot better off. When everybody starts pointing out the sins of others, then we get into judgmentalism and name-calling and nothing positive gets done.

The US of A has better anti-pollution laws than most smaller nations; the smaller nations pollute far worse, on a per capita basis, than the USA at this point in history. And trade agreements make it difficult or impossible for ecologically-conscious American firms to discriminate among their suppliers on the basis of pollution emission. Third world physician, heal thyself!

Global warming is a bugaboo. We know from geological evidence that the world gets colder and warmer and colder again in waves. We're just coming off an ice age. Hey, guess what? It's getting warmer! If the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere gets too large, the planet has mechanisms to deal with it (mostly clorophyll-bearing phytoplankton in the oceans).

Overpopulation is a bugaboo. There are huge tracts of land (if you'll excuse the expression) which COULD house human beings, but do not. Until all possible inhabitable land is full, the cry of overpopulation is a little hard to swallow. Statistically, you could fit the population of the whole world into Texas, and each "family" of 4 would get 1/4 acre.

By the way, if Americans use so many resources, it's because they PAY for them. This moves hard cash into poor countries, which desperately need it. If we were to stop "consuming" so much, who will take up the slack, and consume for us? Because if the persian rug goes unsold, the Persian who made it goes unpaid and his/her children go unfed.

And don't jump on me for being the fatcat uncaring gluttonous American. You don't know me and you don't know what part of my income I give to relieve suffering at home and abroad.

Tired of nonsense,
Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 04:27 AM

There are records from an observatory on Hawaii which has been recording temperature for the last 100 years. There is a continuous trend of rising, with annual wavelike structures in the graph in line with the seasons. This rise pattern is matched by the increase in CO2 (possibly also collected at Hawaii), including the seasonal variations, attributed to the deciduous forests in the north. The overall rising trend is also matched (without seasonal ups and downs) by the increase in industrialisation). This may not be proof, but looks like good epidemiology. I learned this from a lecture presented to the Open University Geological Society a few years ago, and it was presented with references, but I am afraid I cannot recall them, or the lecturer.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: GUEST,Andy Doherty, Cary, NC
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 07:05 AM

Most of the people in America (North America, anyway) are from somewhere else. So you can spread the pollution blame around. The people in the United States and Canada are working feverishly to reduce the amount of pollution going into our rivers, lakes, seas, atmosphere and have made huge strides. The great lakes --notable Erie -- are nearly restored. Stringent laws have been enacted to control and dispose of hazardous wastes. When you're pointing that finger at "America," please note that there are at least three pointing back at you. Maybe you could take a peek -- or better yet, a sniff -- at the Danube. I read where our finny friends do not find swimming in the once magnificent river very hospitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: mkebenn
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 07:21 AM

Nice, Alex, and Andy is right, Erie was a cesspool when I was a kid, and it's the cleanest of the big lakes now. Other than that, I'm with Jon{yawn}. Mike Bennett PS. 'Spaw, prayin' on Karen

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: kendall
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 08:38 AM

Tell Karen I'm also relieved that she is ok.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 08:43 AM

"The smaller nations pollute far worse, on a per capita basis, than the USA at this point in history."

That isn't actually true. The pollution that really matters isn't about being dirty and messy and all that, it's primarily about burning fossil fuel, and that applies if its done in a nice clean way so you don't see smoke and get smells. And the citizens of the USA do min fact burn far far more fossil fuel per head than people anywhere else, both for transport and in other ways.

There are other factors affecting how the climate changes, and we don't understand them yet. There are other things that cause cancer as well as smoking cigarettes. For years the cigarette manufacturers tried to use that as a smokescreen to confuse people about the evidence that smoking kills. The same is happening with the petrol companies today and Global Warming.

Noone's got the power to force the USA to make the massive changes that are going to need to be made, except the Americans themselves. If there is anything that the rest of us can do to help Americans in changing their own society and economy, it's up to those Americans who are fighting to do that to tell us.

That leaves us with the job of changing ourselves, and that includes fighting any tendency to see the down-side of America as any kind of role model. Which leaves lots of things to admire and emulate.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Gern
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 09:54 AM

I'm a little late to try to get in a few shots, but nonetheless: GUEST's ineloquent sputtering is the equivalent of protesters throwing pies: pathetic and impotent, but it's easier to throw a fit than to intelligently articulate your concerns. "Americans" as a people are no more blamable than than the poor farmers burning down rainforests. The problems are systemic, and until ALL nations are willing to make hard choices, there is blame enough for all to share. I don't see other nations rejecting the properity that leads to pollution when they get their chance. However, we need to stop parroting industry's lies about whether or not pollution is a problem. There is all kinds of evidence supporting global warming and the destructive role of humans. Corporate-sponsored misinformation on this subject reminds me of the laboratory lies served up for years by the tobacco companies. Don't fall for this smokescreen. The problems are real, and should be addressed with something more useful than blanket condemnation and assinine generalizations.

Subject: RE: BS: Really pissed off with America
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 10:27 AM

Kendal and Bill D, be assured the problem is NOT over-population. Anyway,your problem seems not to be how many people there are, but what they do. And OK, they chop trees and kill elephants, in their relatively impoverished countries, but they'd have done it in N America too if trees and elephants had got in the way. I mean people got in the way, and look what happened to them.

Your anxiety may just be recognition that if even half the world caught up with PRESENT (it's a moving target) USA extravagance, the planet would be fucked. (Well humankind anyway; good post Clinton!) The answer is not to cull the wannabees but for the richest countries to set a better lead.

The reason that's not going to happen? Short-termism. This is the real root of all our evils, and I bet it's this that inflamed and frustrated our flaming guest. No-one in authority can afford to act long-term. Any who try will just get blown away. Only two words count. Me. Now. The USA is just a product of this - not the cause.

But trying to justify the USA on the basis of what smaller, poorer nations do is going to sound to every other nation on earth like the states is in denial. There's no prospect whatsoever of change until the USA can heed its own governmental reports and admit it's on the wrong track.