Favorite religious Christmas music

Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:33 PM

Praetorius Christmas Mass, esp the "In Dulce Jubilo" bit. (Think I said this last year too!)

Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: Burke
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 06:17 PM

One of my favorites is Oxford also in the Sacred Harp.

Here's the music

Tune: John Massengale, Juvenile Harmony, 1859
Lyrics: Isaac Watts, 1707
Meter: Common Meter Double (8,6,8,6,8,6,8,6)

Shepherds, rejoice! lift up your eyes,
And send your fears away:
News from the regions of the skies --
A Savior's born today!
Jesus, the God whom angels fear,
Comes down to dwell with you...
Today He makes His entrance here,
But not as monarchs do.

No gold nor purple swaddling bands,
Nor royal shining things,
A manger for His cradle stands,
And holds the King of kings.
Go, shepherds, where the infant lies,
And see His humble throne,
With tears of joy in all your eyes,
Go shepherds, kiss the Son.

Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: mg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 06:15 PM

thank you libertarian, but I will pass, as I would pass on peoples' ceremonies that were not of interest to me. But I would be respectful of what was important and beautiful to them.

mg

Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: libertarian
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:18 PM

Sinc christmas is supposedly worshipping that myth called christ, that is after all what christmas is named for, you can't have christmas music that is not religious, but you can have holiday music that is not religious. Take this rewritten one.

(to the tune of Silent Night)
Its coming soon,
Christmas night.
Son of God,
Pure bull shite.
A holiday built upon pa-agan dates.
Christians thought Yule Time,
Was the-eirs to take.
They're celebrating a li-ie!
Despite their great faith we all die.
A carol by insane4reason

insane4reason is in Yahoo if you want to contact him.

Subject: Lyr Add: STAR IN THE EAST (Heber/Walker, 1853)
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:11 PM

My favorite song this year is this old shape note song. The chords don't line up exactly where they should below, but they're there anyway.

Star in the East
Words by Reginald Heber, 1811
Music from the "Southern Harmony and Musical Companion" by William Walker, 1853

Dm                           Am
Hail the blest morn, see the great Mediator
Dm            Am       Dm Am    Dm
Down from the region of glory descend
                         Am
Shepherds go worship the Babe in the manger
Dm          Am               Dm Am   Dm
Lo, for His guard the bright angels attend.

(Chorus)
Dm            Am          C          Dm
Brightest and best of the sons of the morning
            Am            C            Am
Dawn on our darkness and lend us Thine aid
Dm                      Am
Star in the east, the horizon adorning
Dm             Am       Dm Am      Dm
Guide where our infant Redeemer was laid.

Cold on His cradle the dewdrops are shining
Low lies His bed with the beasts of the stall.
Angels adore Him in slumber reclining
Wise men and shepherds before Him do fall.

Say, shall we yield Him in costly devotion
Odors of Eden and offering divine
Gems from the mountains and
Pearls from the ocean
Myrrh from the forest and gold from the mine?

Vainly we offer each ample oblation
Vainly with gold we His favor secure
Richer by far is the heart's adoration
Dearer to God are the prayers of the poor.

Subject: LyrAdd: Good News-Goodtime Band C'mas '02 Songbook
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 01:00 PM

Some of these are in the DT or threads, but these are our own versions. Will post chords for individual songs by request. PM me for info on sound files and printed chord arrangements.

~Susan

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AWAY IN A MANGER

Away in a manger, no crib for a bed,
The little Lord Jesus laid down His sweet head.
The stars in the sky looked down where He lay,
The little Lord Jesus, asleep in the hay.

The cattle are lowing, the Baby awakes,
But little Lord Jesus, no crying He makes;
I love Thee, Lord Jesus, look down from the sky
And stay by my cradle till morning is nigh.

Be near me, Lord Jesus, I ask Thee to stay
Close by me forever, and love me, I pray;
Bless all the dear children in Thy tender care,
And fit us for heaven to live with Thee there.


ANGELS WE HAVE HEARD ON HIGH

Angels we have heard on high, sweetly singing o'er the plain,
And the mountains in reply, echoing their joyous strain.

Refrain:
Gloria, in excelsis Deo! Gloria, in excelsis Deo!

Shepherds, why this jubilee? Why your joyous strains prolong?
What the joyful tidings be which inspire your heavenly song?

Come to Bethlehem and see Christ Whose birth the angels sing;
Come, adore on bended knee, Christ the Lord, the newborn King.

See Him in a manger laid, Whom the choirs of angels praise;
Holy Spirit, lend your aid, while our hearts in love we raise.


BEAUTIFUL STAR OF BETHLEHEM
From the Max Hunter Collection. As sung by Mr. J. W. Breazeal, Springfield, Missouri on April 27, 1958. Edited by Susan O. Hinton.   

O, beautiful star of Bethlehem, shining afar thru shadows dim,
Giving your light for those who long have gone.
And guiding the wise men on their way, unto the place where Jesus lay.
Beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine on!

Refrain:
O, beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine upon us until the glory dawn.
O, give us thy light to light the way into the land of perfect day.
Beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine on!

O, beautiful star of hope, of light, guiding the pilgrims through the night
Over the mountain till the break of dawn.
And into the light of perfect day it will give out a lovely ray.
Beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine on!

O, beautiful star, the hope of rest for the redeemed, the good, the bless'd,
Yonder in glory when the crown is won,
For Jesus is now that star divine, brighter and brighter, He will shine.
Beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine on!


BEAUTIFUL STARS
Isaac Freeman version edited and additional verses by Susan O. Hinton.

Beautiful stars of love, shining from heaven above,
Leading the world to look that way.
Radiance is the glow over the earth below,                
Cheering me on... to perfect day.                

Refrain:
Stars... of wondrous love....
Shining.... shining from above.
Filling the earth with light, scattering gloom at night.        
Beautiful stars of... wondrous love.                

Beautiful stars of grace, flowing from God's holy face,
Lending His light where darkness had reigned.
Warm and sweet as the peace of salvation's release,
Healing the wounded spirits chained.

Beautiful stars of strength, measuring Love's breadth and length,
Made by our Father's hand so long ago.
Marking the Father's time, creation's celestial rhyme,
Ord'ring our time on earth below.


THE BIRTHDAY OF A KING
Words & Music: William H. Neidlinger, 1890.

In the little village of Bethlehem,
There lay a Child one day;
And the sky was bright with a holy light
O'er the place where Jesus lay.

Refrain
Alleluia! O how the angels sang.
Alleluia! How it rang!
And the sky was bright with a holy light
'Twas the birthday of a King.

'Twas a humble birthplace, but O how much
God gave to us that day,
From the manger bed what a path has led,
What a perfect, holy way.


BRIDE OF THE LAMB, AWAKE, AWAKE
Words: Edward Denny, in Hymns for the Poor of the Flock, 1837. Music: "St. Agnes," John B. Dykes, in Hymnal for Use in the English Church, by John Grey, 1866.

Bride of the Lamb, awake, awake!
Why sleep for sorrow now?
The hope of glory, Christ, is thine,
A child of glory thou.

Thy spirit, through the lonely night,
From earthly joy apart,
Hath sighed for One that's far away;
The Bridegroom of thy heart.

But see! the night is waning fast,
The breaking morn is near;
And Jesus comes, with voice of love,
Thy drooping heart to cheer.

He comes; for oh, His yearning heart
No more can bear delay;
To scenes of full unmingled joy
To call His bride away.

Then weep no more; 'tis all thine own
His crown, His joy divine;
And, sweeter far than all beside,
He, He Himself is thine!


THE FIRST NOEL

The first Noel the angel did say
Was to certain poor shepherds in fields as they lay;
In fields where they lay keeping their sheep,
On a cold winter's night that was so deep.

Refrain
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel! Born is the King of Israel.

They lookèd up and saw a star
Shining in the east, beyond them far;
And to the earth it gave great light,
And so it continued both day and night.

This star drew nigh to the northwest,
Over Bethlehem it took its rest;
And there it did both stop and stay,
Right over the place where Jesus lay.

Then entered in those Wise Men three,
Full reverently upon their knee,
And offered there, in His presence,
Their gold and myrrh and frankincense.


THE FRIENDLY BEASTS

Jesus our Saviour kind and good
Was humbly born in a stable of wood.
And the friendly beasts around Him stood,
Jesus our Saviour kind and good

"I," said the donkey shaggy and brown,
"I carried His mother up hill and down.
I carried her safely to Bethlehem town.
I," said the donkey shaggy and brown.

"I," said the cow, all white and red,
"I gave Him my manger for a bed.
I gave Him my hay for to pillow His head,
I," said the cow, all white and red

"I," said the sheep with the curly horn,
"I gave Him my blanket for a warm.
And he wore my coat on that Christmas morn,
I," said the sheep with the curly horn.

"I," said the dove from the rafters high,
"I cooed Him to sleep so He would not cry.
We cooed Him to sleep, my mate and I,
I," said the dove from the rafters high.

"I," said the camel, all yellow and black,
"Over the desert upon my back,
I brought Him a gift in the wise men's pack,
I," said the camel, all yellow and black

Thus every beast remembering it well
In the stable dark was so proud to tell
Of the gifts they gave Emmanuel,
The gifts they gave Emmanuel.


GENTLE MARY LAID HER CHILD
Words: Joseph Simpson Cook, 1919. Music: "Tempus Adest Floridum," from Piae Cantiones, 1582.

Gentle Mary laid her Child lowly in a manger;
There He lay, the undefiled, to the world a Stranger:
Such a Babe in such a place, can He be the Savior?
Ask the saved of all the race who have found His favor.

Angels sang about His birth; wise men sought and found Him;
Heaven's star shone brightly forth, glory all around Him:
Shepherds saw the wondrous sight, heard the angels singing;
All the plains were lit that night, all the hills were ringing.

Gentle Mary laid her Child lowly in a manger;
He is still the undefiled, but no more a stranger:
Son of God, of humble birth, beautiful the story;
Praise His Name in all the earth, hail the King of glory!


IN THE BLEAK MIDWINTER

In the bleak midwinter, frosty wind made moan,
Earth stood hard as iron, water like a stone;
Snow had fallen, snow on snow, snow on snow,
In the bleak midwinter, long ago.

God, heaven cannot hold Him, nor earth sustain;
Heaven and earth shall flee away when He comes to reign.
In the bleak midwinter a stable place sufficed
The Lord God Almighty, Jesus Christ.

Angels and archangels may have gathered there,
Cherubim and seraphim thronged the air;
But His mother only, in her maiden bliss,
Worshipped the beloved with a kiss.

What can I give Him, poor as I am?
If I were a shepherd, I would bring a lamb;
If I were a Wise Man, I would do my part;
Yet what I can give Him: give my heart.


IT CAME UPON THE MIDNIGHT CLEAR

It came upon the midnight clear, that glorious song of old,
From angels bending near the earth, to touch their harps of gold;
Peace on the earth, good will to men, from heaven's all gracious King.
The world in solemn stillness lay, to hear the angels sing.

Still through the cloven skies they come with peaceful wings unfurled,
And still their heavenly music floats o'er all the weary world;
Above its sad and lowly plains, they bend on hovering wing,
And ever over its Babel sounds the blessèd angels sing.

For lo! the days are hastening on, by prophets seen of old,
When with the ever circling years shall come the time foretold;
When the new heaven & earth shall own the Prince of Peace their King
And the whole world send back the song which now the angels sing.


THE KING OF LOVE
Statler Brothers version.

Jesus came, there He lay, in a manger of hay.
The angels sang; the shepherds came, they knew not what the future held.
They only knew they were compelled. From up above,
A baby boy, the King of love.

Refrain:
He was a child, He was the Son, He was a man among men.
He was a friend, He was a saint, He was the King of Love.

Jesus grew, He was a child. He traveled far and distant land,
His earthly parents by the hand. They missed Him now, He did not hide. He told them then, "I must confide;
I was at my Father's side."

Jesus died.... the world was dark. Not a sound was there to hark.
The breath was gone, He bowed His head....But wait! Let us rejoice,
For He has risen from the dead!


SILENT NIGHT

Silent night, holy night, all is calm, all is bright
Round yon virgin mother and Child. Holy Infant, so tender and mild,
Sleep in heavenly peace, sleep in heavenly peace.

Silent night, holy night, shepherds quake at the sight;
Glories stream from heaven afar, heavenly hosts sing Alleluia!
Christ the Savior is born, Christ the Savior is born!

Silent night, holy night; wondrous star, lend thy light;
With the angels let us sing, Alleluia to our King;
Christ the Savior is here, Christ the Savior is here!

Silent night, holy night, Son of God, love's pure light;
Radiant beams from Thy holy face with the dawn of redeeming grace,
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth, Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth.


WINDS THROUGH THE OLIVE TREES
By Winifred E Rees.

Refrain:
Winds through the olive trees softly did blow,
'Round little Bethlehem long, long ago.

Sheep on the hillside lay whiter than snow,
Shepherds were watching them, long, long ago.

Then from the happy skies angels bent low,
Singing their songs of joy, long, long ago.

For in a manager bed cradled we know,
Christ came to Bethlehem, long, long ago.


THE WISE MAY BRING THEIR LEARNING
Words: Anonymous, in Book of Praise for Children, 1881. Music: "Christmas Morn," Edward J. Hopkins (1818-1901).

The wise may bring their learning, the rich may bring their wealth,
And some may bring their greatness, and some bring strength and health;
We, too, would bring our treasures to offer to the King;
We have no wealth or learning; what shall we children bring?

We'll bring Him hearts that love Him; we'll bring Him thankful praise,
And young souls meekly striving to walk in holy ways;
And these shall be the treasures we offer to the King,
And these are gifts that even the poorest child may bring.

We'll bring the little duties we have to do each day;
We'll try our best to please Him, at home, at school, at play;
And better are these treasures to offer to our King;
Than richest gifts without them; yet these a child may bring.

Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: GUEST,Amy
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 04:54 PM

Donna Nobis Pacem

Handel's Messiah

Adam Lay He Bounden

Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: Jim Krause
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 03:26 PM

Yep, I'm real partial to Messiah too. There are some 16^th century German carols I like such as

• Es ist ein Ros entsprungen, and
• Josef Lieber, Josef Mein

Some 19^th century carols which also happen to be in German that I like are

• Stille Nacht
• Nun ist sie Erschienen
• O du seelige

Jim

Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 08:21 PM

My favorite Christmas music is Handel's Messiah. As for carols - Good King Wenceslas and O Come All Ye Faithful top the list.

Subject: Add: HOW FAR FROM HOME?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 02:19 PM

Here is one we are working on for this Advent season.

~Susan

=========================================================

HOW FAR FROM HOME?
Words: Annie R. Smith, 1853.
Music: "Tis Midnight Hour," from a song by that name, by an anonymous composer.


How far from home? I asked, as on
I bent my steps-- the watchman spake:
"The long, dark night is almost gone,
The morning soon will break.
Then weep no more, but speed thy flight,
With Hope's bright star thy guiding ray,
Till thou shalt reach the realms of light,
In everlasting day."

I asked the warrior on the field;
This was his soul inspiring song:
"With courage bold, the sword I'll wield,
The battle is not long.
Then weep no more, but well endure
The conflict, till thy work is done;
For this we know, the prize is sure,
When victory is won."

I asked again; earth, sea and sun
Seemed, with one voice, to make reply:
"Time's wasting sands are nearly run,
Eternity is nigh.
Then weep no more-with warning tones,
Portentous sights are thickening round,
The whole creation, waiting, groans,
To hear the trumpet sound."

Not far from home! O blessèd thought!
The traveler's lonely heart to cheer;
Which oft a healing balm has brought,
And dried the mourner's tear.
Then weep no more, since we shall meet
Where weary footsteps never roam-
Our trials past, our joys complete,
Safe in our Father's home.


SIMPLEST CHORDS:
How (A)far from home? I (D)asked, as (A)on
I (E7)bent my steps-- the (A)watchman spake:
"The (A)long, dark night is (D)almost (A)gone,
The (E7)morning soon will (A)break.
Then (E7)weep no more, but (A)speed thy flight,
With (E7)Hope's bright star thy (A)guiding ray,
Till thou shalt reach the (D)realms of (A)light,
In (E7)everlasting (A)day."


SOURCE:
Cyberhymnal, including TUNE.

@religious @hymns @Christmas @Advent


SH

Subject: LyrAdd: THE HILLS ARE BARE AT BETHLEHEM
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 04:44 AM

THE HILLS ARE BARE AT BETHLEHEM

The hills are bare at Bethlehem,
No future for the world they show;
Yet here new life begins to grow,
From earth's old dust a greenwood stem.

The stars are cold at Bethlehem,
No warmth for those beneath the sky;
Yet here the radiant angels fly,
and joy burns new, a fi'ry gem.

The heart is tired at Bethlehem,
No human dream unbroken stands;
Yet here God comes to mortal hands,
And hope renewed cries out: "Amen!"

--Royce J. Scherf (1929); tune: PROSPECT (Southern Harmony)

~Masato

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Genie
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 03:35 AM

A beautiful carol that no one has mentioned is "The Hills Are Bare At Bethlehem." I would like to get the full lyrics to that, if anyone has them.

Another pretty German carol is "Joseph, Lieber." A version of that one is in "Rise Up Singing."

Genie

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Brían
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 09:39 PM

Ther is no Rose of Swych Virtu

Don Oíche Úd i mBetheil

Brían

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Genie
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 09:17 PM

For beautiful harmonies, I love
The First Nöel
Silent Night and
Angels We Have Heard On High

Other religious favorites:
Mary's Boy Child
Virgin Mary (Had A Little Baby)
What Child Is This?
God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen
There's A Song In The Air
Go Tell It On the Mountain
Ave Maria; Cantique de Nöel
Stille Nacht (Noche de Paz)
Gesu, Bambino
Es Ist Ein' Ros'
Still, Still, Still
Mary, Did You Know?
Follow, Now, O Shepherds

Genie

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Argenine
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 01:09 AM

All three verses of O Holy Night.  (I prefer the meaning of the English lyrics, but I love the sound of the original French version --Cantique de Nöel--, which is from about the 15th C., I think.)

Riu, Riu, Chiu

Virgin Mary  (as sung by Carolyn Hester)

There's A Song In The Air  (a hymn that was always in our Baptist Hymnal when I was growing up).  The first verse goes:

There's a song in the air, there's a star in the sky,
There's a mother's deep prayer and a baby's low cry,
And the star rains its fire while the beautiful sing,
And the manger of Bethlehem cradles a king.

It Came Upon The Midnight Clear   -- especially the verse that goes:

Still thro' the cloven skies they come, with peaceful wings unfurled,
And still their heav'nly music floats o'er all the weary world.
Above its sad and lonely plain they bend on hov'ring wing,
And ever o'er its Babel sounds the blessed angels sing!

Es Ist Ein' Ros' Entsprungen   (Lo, How A Rose E'er Blooming)  -- this is so pretty auf Deutsch!

Liland, Thanks for posting Longfellow's oft-omitted verses. There is a fuller discussion of his poem, and how it came to be the carol we know, in another thread here at Mudcat (from sometime this fall.)

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: John P
Date: 26 Dec 00 - 08:42 AM

Some favorites:

Salutation of the Angel (this has the same tune as "Bring Us In Good Ale")
Babe of Bethlehem
Pat-a-pan
Personent Hodie
Star of the East
Blessed Be That Maid Marie (This is almost the same tune as "Staines Morris")
La Marche des Rois
Ballade de Jesus-Christ
Noel Nouvelet
Entre le boeuf et l'ane gris
Gloria Ad Modem Tubae (wild and wonderful 15th century cannon)
The Angel Gabriel From Heaven Came

A couple of these (the first and the last) are Annunciation songs -- maybe we should get together in March to sing those? I like Mary's quite understandable surprise at the news that she is pregnant. From "Salutation of the Angel":

By what manner should I child bear, the which, ever a maid,
Have lived chaste all my life past, and never man assayed?

John

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 10:44 PM

Who stole my Foo...Raammm...Chooo?

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 03:14 AM

Mary in Kentucky: Thanks for the link (and thanks to Jean for bringing the song up) to the Pretty Saro thread (I know it best in its Wagoner's Lad version as Joan Baez did it; I did an Esperanto version but haven't posted it yet (basically because I've misplaced it), titled "La Juna Charist'".

Those who've mentioned "I heard the bells on Christmas Day", do all of you sing it to "Waltham", and if not, to what? And did you know Longfellow wrote the lyrics during the (US) Civil War, and there are two stanzas (originally 4 & 5) that are rarely if ever sung, that were direct references to the War (the whole song, of course, is an antiwar carol in a general way):

Then from each black, accursed mouth
The cannon thundered in the South,
And with the sound the carols drowned
Of peace on earth, good will to men.

It was as if an earthquake rent
The hearth-stones of a continent,
And made forlorn, the households born
Of peace on earth, good will to men.

The whole text (though not in order) and the tunes are in The Cyber Hymnal (which just moved for the second time this month, hopefully the last time!

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Eluned
Date: 24 Dec 00 - 12:47 AM

I just wanted to say that I have been enjoying the treat of reading this thread. I don't get out on the internet much anymore, but had promised myself I'd drop in here at MudCat around Christmas as a gift to myself.
Oh, and Holly and the Ivy (X-ian or Pagan, it's still lovely), DEFinitely the Coventry Carol, and Angel We Have Heard on High are alltime favorites of mine, the ones that fall in religious categories.
Not to pick a fight or anything, but even if it is pagan (though I'm not saying it is, nor that it isn't), Holly and the Ivy will still qualify for this thread....
So ... Happy Holidays, everyone!!!!
The mostly absent
Eluned

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Alice
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 10:40 PM

Favorites for me:
Gesu Bambino (When blossoms flowered mid the snows..)
Enniscorthy Carol
I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day

(Hi, Jean)

Alice

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 09:46 PM

The Epiphany mentioned in Jon's citation on Brightest and Best is celebrated on Jan. 6, the traditional Old Christmas. Guest Jean Ritchie gives a delightful account of that holiday in "Singing Family of the Cumberlands." Cherry Tree Carol's last verse uses the Jan. 6 date. The fiddle tune "Breaking Up Christmas" was traditionally played on Jan. 6. Are there other Old Christmas/Epiphany songs worth a listen?

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 08:15 PM

Click Here for Welcome Thread

Spaw

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 08:00 PM

Spaw- I think your offer'd be a good idea, since we're off on a tangent here from "Favorite Religious Christmas Carols!" Thanks for the background on your group. I'll be pretty scarce for the next few days, but will be looking in again soon. Merry Christmas to all!

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 04:24 PM

Jean, I wish I could find the story I told about this here, but I have about 9000 posts (literally) here on the 'Cat and if I CAN find it I'll link it! We were a small group of friends who had met and played together at Berea College and we did a few "fests" and things during and after that time. We never really "billed" ourselves as anything too consistently, but I know we used the Berea Firehouse Five for awhile! That came from the fact that Berea had closed its student run fire department and the college set up a "Coffee House" in the fire station where we played informally about every night for awhile. I think the college thought that if they opened a coffee house it might slow down a few of the more radical types by giving us somewhere to go.......this was in the late sixties, and I guess it kinda' worked a bit too!!!

Jean, some of us have messaged back and forth and we are so happy to have you dropping by. Generally, we start a thread for new members to give them a welcome and I'd really like a few others to know you've dropped in among us. We did the same with Hedy West and Frank Hamilton and Margaret MacArthur and others......Would you mind? Let's face it, you are a true legend and many of us have seen you a lot over the years so I know they'd enjoy saying Hi and thanks. Besides, it would give you another thread to check in on (of course you can post to any you want to).

For instance, I'd like to know some more about Edna. I have a tape of a field recording that Sandy Paton' Folk-Legacy Records did and I enjoy it tremendously. Her "Ritchie Family Voice" is obvious and I have said several times that her use of a dulcimer as a highlight is beautiful. Nothing fancy, but it brings out both the beauty of the instrument and her voice as well. Its a great example.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 03:33 PM

Spaw, do you know that I STILL go to Hindman for that same Family Folk Week you remembered? I guess it's just part of my life now. Hindman is only about 25 miles from Viper where I was born & raised, and where we still gather for family reunions. Our log house is there. I'm curious as to what group you were a part of, 30 years ago! Thanks for your welcome.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 03:26 PM

Animaterra- "Christmas Day in the Morn," is a good substitution (better than the change made-without asking- in one of the hymnals printing, "Now is the Cool of the Day-" starting with "My Lord He said unto me." It was changed to, "My lord, he/she said unto me...")

Also want to explain that I titled the song, "The Holly Carol," leaving out the "tree" in deference to the old song. It seems impossible- ASCAP, the Harry Fox Agency, everyone who has ever recorded or sung the song, INSISTS on calling it, "The Holly Tree Carol." I'm very sorry- I should have called it something entirely different, like, "The Little Holly Tree," but it's too late now!

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 11:54 AM

Jean, "Pretty Saro" is one of my all time favorites. I know it as "Hard is the Fortune." We discussed it in this thread. [http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=15862#144827]

I have your Dulcimer Book and have played it in there. I just wish I could still sing! That would surely be one I'd sing over and over!

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 07:55 AM

I'd like to add my welcome to Jean and Jon. I remember performing in a Christmas Revels in Cambridge, Mass, some years ago, where you (Jean) were the "guest star". It was such a thrill to sit at your feet on stage and hear your songs and stories straight from your own mouth!
I teach elementary music in a public school, and I've always wanted to teach The Holly Tree Carol. Unfortunately, in these benighted days, using phrases like "on the day our Lord was born" is a bit risky- sounds too much like I'm not separating Church and state. I can mention Christmas, but the fine line gets a bit thin here. Is it ok if I change it to "on Christmas day in the morn?" I hate to water down anything like that, but I do want the children to know the song and you!

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 07:38 AM

Liland,

WINCHESTER OLD is almost universally used in UK as the tune for "While Shepherds Watched", but there is an increasing use of "Ilkley Moor Baht 'At", probably as a result of increasing media exposure of the South Yorkshire carols tradition. Both that and the 'Sweet Chiming Bells' version were sung at our local folk club last week.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 08:43 PM

We are proud to have you anytime Jean and I'd love to have your input on other threads too as I'm sure we all would. One of my greatest memories is of being with a small group who played on the same evening as you did in Hindman...about 30 years ago. Listening to you that evening brought a special feeling to me that locked folk music into my life. I told the story somewhere here before, but its nice to say thanks personally.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 08:35 PM

Mary in Kentucky- Another lovely one that's very easy is "Pretty Saro," or maybe you already play that one?

To everyone- Thanks for the welcome; as Jon said, we've been reading along for some time, but I always felt that if I said anything, I'd be "horning in." We're on the road a lot, so won't be talking enough to distress anyone, but it's good to know you're a friendly bunch...

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:36 PM

Thanks, I'll take a look at that one. I didn't explain earlier, I have MS and can't sing, my strumming is not real hard driving fast, so I look for slower songs with beautiful harmonies. I particularly like the Southern Harmony sound.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:20 PM

When we were little, Dad used to dance the baby one round the room on Christmas Day (we were desperately "waiting" for dinner)- and sing-chant: Twelve days a-Christmas, sent my sweetheart Twelve studs a-squealin, Eleven bulls a-bellerin, Ten hares a-runnin, Nine cows a-roarin, Eight maids a-waitin, Seven swans a-swimmin, Six geese a-layin, Five goldy rings, Four colly birds, Three French hens Two turkle-doves- AND A PATTERGE IN A PEAR-BUSH!

On the last line, the child would be swung up into the air with a great shout. I guess this must be a "farm" version of the song. It's described in more detail in the book, Singing Family of the Cumberlands(UK Press)

Mary- Why not, "Brightest and Best?" Beautiful on the dulcimer. Last year I was on a program with The Copper Family, and they were much impressed with it- said the harmonies were very like theirs. Made my day.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: MMario
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:43 PM

Evidently the "five golden rings" in the older french versions are refering to pheasants...making all of the first seven gifts birds...I've seen versions with other animals - bulla a-roaring, deer a-leaping, etc.

And I've heard renditions where "A partridge in a pear tree" was " a piece of a juniper bough"

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:41 PM

Well, so are the Catholics ;-)

by which I mean that during the period when the English Catholics really were being persecuted, which was of much shorter duration than the Presbyterian program notes suggest, English Catholicism as an institution (seminary training, etc.) was centered in France, in Douai, and Rheims, and Rouen, I think (hence the 1582-1609 Douay-Rheims Bible that was long the King James of the Romanists). That continued even after the outright persecution had waffled into discrimination, which is i.a. why John Wade was in France when he did Adeste Fideles.

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:39 PM

Plus too, "eleven" was NEVER a number of apostles that was memorized or quoted. The absense of Judas was very temporary, and immediately filled. "The Twelve" in Orthodoxy always means exactly one group: the apostles. I defy anybody to find "eleven" in any ancient or medieval source as a number of apostles.

Alex

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: MMario
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:31 PM

Of course the crowning touch is that the origins of the "12 Days of Christmas" are FRENCH.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:25 PM

Les from Hull wrote:

12 days of Christmas

The explanation given still seems like complete tosh to me (apart from the rather over-stated anti-Catholic laws - do people in the the USA actually believe that?).

I don't know. My guess is most people in the USA never thought about the subject. But there the Presbyterians were, promulgating it as if gospel... so I just copied their assertions. I do think it's an interesting piece, however improbable as history.

So why would apostles be pipers piping, for example? Or Jesus Christ a partridge in a pear tree? Can anyone see any connection? It all seems a bit contrived to me (a bit like Deck o' Cards)

I agree. A few make sense (geese a-laying for creation, and calling [tho should be collie, which makes less sense but better Catholicism] birds for the evangelists), but most seem quite arbitrary and like it must have been harder to teach the mnemonic than the theology ;-)

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:16 PM

Wes,

Yeah, "While Shepherds Watched" is from the Tate & Brady psalter, which meant that unlike most of the Christmas texts then popular it was kosher for the Puritans and sundry Separatists. That does help to explain its popularity (though its date, 1700-1702, makes it too recent to have had a vogue when the Puritans were actually in a position to enforce such things). In the US in my experience the Handel tune CHRISTMAS is overwhelmingly the best known for it; WINCHESTER OLD is almost as common in hymnals but much less so in sung usage.

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:14 PM

Wes,

Yeah, "While Shepherds Watched" is from the Tate & Brady psalter, which meant that unlike most of the Christmas texts then popular it was kosher for the Puritans and sundry Separatists. That does help to explain its popularity (though its date, 1700-1702, makes it too recent to have had a vogue when the Puritans were actually in a position to enforce such things). In the US in my experience the Handel tune CHRISTMAS is overwhelmingly the best known for it; WINCHESTER OLD is almost as common in hymnals but much less so in sung usage.

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 11:30 AM

We're glad you decided to join in. The place can get pretty silly at times but the music threads keep coming along too. Hope to see more of all of you!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jon Pickow
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 11:05 AM

Thanks Spaw for the welcome. We've lurked here for years and only just began to join in the fun.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Mary in Kentucky
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:16 AM

Welcome Jean, Jon and Wes,

You'll find lots of wonderful discussions here (and yes, a bit of silliness too) because this is a world-wide community of friends who share a passion for music.

Remember, if the server goes down during the holidays, try the following URL's,

http://loki.mudcat.org
http://ragtime.mudcat.org

Jean, any suggestions for Christmas carols played on the dulcimer? I like something slow, with beautiful chords, where I can also pick a few melody notes. I never tire of Greensleeves, but also love the Appalachian songs.

Also, if y'all join, membership has it's rewards. But this place can be very addicting and time consuming!

Mary

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,wes williams
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:11 AM

I've only just come across this site, but a few days back you people were talking about the various 'old' carol traditions in England. You can find a lot about the Yorkshire/Derbyshire etc area at:

www.sgpublishing.co.uk/gm/vc/vcabout.html

we have a tradition down here in Somerset at Odcombe, near Yeovil ( going at least 150 years) and there are also traditions in Cornwall.

My Favourites: "While Shepherd's" with either the tune from Roadwater, Somerset, or from Thomas Hardy's manuscripts from Dorset.

Liland: Why so many "While Shepherd's"? - I've been told because it was one of the few lyrics allowed to be sung by the Puritans. And I've sung it to lots of diffrent local tunes, probably about 5 as a guess, but there are loads more!

re: Holly & Ivy: how long ago and/or in what dialect of English was "choir" rhymed with "deer"? Down this way, deer has two slurred syllables: 'dee' and 'or',which goes quite well with 'qwy' and 'or'. A lot of regional dialects use a similar two syllable word.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 08:04 AM

Jon, thanks for the research and lest you think us too weird, we have had an instance or two where someone has posted under a well known name purporting to be them. Hedy West posts around here sometimes, but at one point there was an acquaintance of hers using her name and trying to sell bootleg CD's!!! We got that cleared up and we now have the "real" Hedy West, as well as the "real" Sandy and Caroline Paton, Art Thieme, Frank Hamilton, Dan Milner, and others as regulars on the 'Cat. Welcome to the Mudcat to both you and your Mom who gets mentioned and discussed here a lot as she has many admirers around the joint! Run a search on her name and I guarantee you hours of reading. Best to All for a Happy Season.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From:
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 01:00 AM

Dear Mary, Liland, and anyone else that's wondering,

This is Jon Pickow, Jean's son. We've discussed this thread around the house for the last few days. She is indeed "the real Jean Ritchie." No one that I know of has posted under her name.

Regarding "Brightest and Best," the "Sons" v. "Suns" issue got me to thinking. Clearly the poetry points toward "suns" if taken in context, but still, one wonders about these things. Brightest and Best is a song I've known all of my life, so I've never thought of it in an analytical or scholarly way.

On a whim, I consulted Pope Gregory's legacy; Libre Usualis, the official (now out of print) codification of chant and plainsong used throughout the year in the Catholic Mass (always a great place to start when researching hymnody). Sure enough, in place of the English word "suns" in the chant for lauds at the "Epiphiny of our Lord" is the Latin word: solis, or suns. The Brightest and Best text is surely a transliteration of the text of this chant.

Let me know what you think. Best holiday wishes, Jon Pickow

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Susan A-R
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 10:06 PM

Jean, I was just thinking of brightest and best. I'll have to re-learn it over the holidays. I used to sing with a sacred harp group up here in New England which did it with a great harmony., (Believe it was the Star of the East tune.) There are also some amazing West Gallery carols. Those folks knew how to ROCK!!

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 10:02 PM

sophocleese: flavoured? (and Gabriel's a guy, insofar as one can assign angels gender).

re: Holly & Ivy: how long ago and/or in what dialect of English was "choir" rhymed with "deer"? Certainly in present-day Standard American English (which of course we Seattleites speak in its purest form) "choir" is a homophone of "quire", but nowhere near a rhyme for "deer"; are there folks out there who say "choir" as a homophone of "queer"?

re: Christian expropriation of pagan oddments: Some time back in a different thread (I've actually forgotten where), I offered Mudcat my "Sol Invictus" carol, to Frère Jacques:

Sol Invictus, Sol Invictus
What a guy*, what a guy*,
Lets us use his birthday
to remember Jesus.
Thank you, Sol! Thank you, Sol!

* "god" may be substituted for "guy",
depending on one's theology or taste

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: pastorpest
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 09:45 PM

I like many carols and it would be hard to pick favourites. Three that I am singing this year are "Sleep, Holy Babe", "Some children See Him", and very new one (cannot remember the songwriters) "Like a Rose in Winter".

Subject: RE: URL corrections
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 09:45 PM

mouldy,
Here are the corrected links to illustrate the tunes for "It came upon the midnight clear": CAROL and NOEL respectively in my Esperanto hymnal.)
Liland