Favorite religious Christmas music

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 09:43 PM

GUEST Jean Ritchie wrote: Liland- If "sun" IS a change, I vote that it's a good one. The whole of that chorus is addressed to the Star: Brightest and best of the suns of the morning, Dawn on our darkness and lend us thine aid; Star in the east, the horizon adorning, Guide where our infant Redeemer is laid.

Liland: The imagery Heber was using comes from Job 38:7 (among other texts) where the morning stars are personified as sons of God:

"When the morning stars sang together,

and all the sons of God shouted for joy"

(the normal rules of Hebrew poetic parallelism indicate that the two expressions are to be taken as synonymous).

Jean: Also- the "Son of the morning" was (is?), I think, Lucifer!

Liland: There seems to be a certain amount of competition between the forces of light and darkness (which is which, anyhow?) over their spheres of influence. "This is my Father's world" - "the earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof" - yet Satan is "the Prince of this world" etc. (The potential identity/antithesis of the pair Earth|World is an interesting exegetical exercise.) In the "Russian Carols" thread mousethief brought up an Orthodox text in which it sure looked to me like the hymnodist was giving full credit to Caesar Augustus's claim to divinity (I'm not saying I was reading it right, just that that's how it looked to me.) Anyhow, "Lucifer" etymologically is "Lightbearer", which may make one wonder about Wesley's Christ - "Light and life to all he brings". Remember what Solomon said in 1 Kings 8:12:

"The LORD has set the sun in the heavens,

but has said that He would dwell in thick darkness."

There's a lot of this sort of way-too-convoluted-to-interpret-easily equivalence in both the Biblical text and the Christian symbolic tradition. For me the most mindboggling one, I think, is where the crowd insists that instead of Jesus of Nazareth Pilate should free "Jesus Barabbas"; "Barabbas", as even a nodding acquaintance with Aramaic tells us, means "son of the father". So we have here a pitting of our "real" Jesus against a robber called "Jesus son of the father".

Jean: Loved your song about the five historical ladies- certainly something to think on...

Thanks!

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 08:56 PM

Mary- Yes, tis I, enjoying the Solstice, Christmas and New Year at home for a change. Singing carols with just the family... thanks for the lift!

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: MMario
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 05:48 PM

I'm not trying to argue here, but when something is borrowed or even stolen - as many pagans claim the date of Christmas and many Christmas traditions have been by the Christian church, how long before those traditions become "legitamate" in their new setting? it's been 1400 years more or less for the date. several hundred at least for the use of the Holly and the Ivy.

And I will point out that Christian symbolism can explain all the phrases found in the lyrics of Holly and the Ivy"

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: NightWing
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 05:35 PM

Though I'm not a Christian, I love singing. Doesn't matter what. One of my favorite kinds of songs is the carol with a descant line. When I was younger, I used to be able to handle the formal, full tenor range; my mother is a soprano. Singing carols in church or while wassailing we used to trade off the descant part while the rest of the singers would keep the melody and harmonies going.

WOW!!

BB,
NightWing

P.S. LOTS of the songs mentioned here I've never heard of. I'll have to dig some of them up. But I will say -- with a bit of a mischievous smile -- I saw several mentioned that are actually rather pagan: e.g. Holly and the Ivy.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,oggie
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 01:58 PM

Benjamin Britten 'A Ceremony of Carols' - A set of medieval carols for (ideally) boys voices and harp. Superb listening.

All the best

Steve

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: mg
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 11:16 AM

how about Christmas Rose...does anyone know where that came from? And Bing Crosby singing Adeste Fideles...mg

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: sophocleese
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 08:29 AM

Oneof my favourites is O Men From the Hills, I think that's what it's called. I like to sing it with The Angel Gabriel (most highly flavoured lady). A few years ago my husband got me the Oxford Carols for Choirs 1, 2, 3, and 4 so I could learn descants to many carols. I found some lovely things in there. I like a lot of the standards too, they are fun to sing.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 07:53 AM

While shepherds watched...

The South Yorkshire carol tradition I mentioned earlier in this thread has about 15 tunes for this carol. My personal favourite is 'Pentonville'. Other versions have a chorus as in:

Sweet bells, sweet chiming Christmas bells
Sweet bells, sweet chiming Christmas bells
They cheer us on our heavenly way
Sweet Christmas bells.

Other carols sung are well-known sets of words to lesser known tunes (or unknown outside the area), and sets of words and tunes that I've only heard there.

12 days of Christmas

The explanation given still seems like complete tosh to me (apart from the rather over-stated anti-Catholic laws - do people in the the USA actually believe that?). So why would apostles be pipers piping, for example? Or Jesus Christ a partridge in a pear tree? Can anyone see any connection? It all seems a bit contrived to me (a bit like Deck o' Cards)

Les from Hull

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: The Celtic Bard
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 10:49 PM

Another one that I forgot that I equally love is "Breath of Heaven" also known as "Mary's Song." It's amazing and hauntingly beautiful. I have a version of it being sung by Amy Grant and she did a really good version of it. One of my favorites.

Rebecca <><

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: The Celtic Bard
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 10:46 PM

My all time favorite Christmas song has always been "I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day." It's such a simple song with a powerful message. I suggest looking it up. I recently found it on Travis Tritt's "A Travis Tritt Christmas" CD.

My other favorites include:

Mary, Did You Know? Brightest and Best (Kathy Mattea did a good job on both of those songs) O Holy Night (both verses) God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen What Child is This? It Came Upon a Midnight Clear Do You Hear What I Hear? (very few people seem to know the whole thing) I Saw Three Ships Sleigh Ride (the instrumental version especially when it's done well; the Boston Pops usually play it during their annual Christmas concert and they do a really good job with it) Good King Wenceslas Carol of the Bells (only if it's done well)

Rebecca <><

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:42 PM

I hope I got everything posted there. Whew! I see my links in the one to mouldy don't work. The first one needs l/ added before the file name, and the second d/. I'll try to fix 'em tonight but I'm about to run out of time here on the public library computer. Sorry. Hope the midis work on those I said had 'em.

Liland

---

Liland, I fixed your links. If you'd like help with editing HTML things you've posted, feel free to ask in the Help Forum (we're sure to see it there) - we're happy to do so. --JoeClone

Subject: Tune and text variants
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:33 PM

Variant tunes and texts for well-known carols

(In many cases you can check which tune is which by going to the appropriate carol in my online hymnal and scrolling down below the text to where I keep my MIDIs.)

What do you sing O little town of Bethlehem to? ST. LOUIS (Redner)? FOREST GREEN (arr. Vaughan Williams)? CHRISTMAS CAROL (Walford Davies)? Fink's "BETHLEHEM"? Burnap's EPHRATAH? Yet another tune?

How about It came upon the midnight clear? Do you use CAROL (Willis) or NOEL (arr. Sullivan), or something else?

And what about Away in a manger? MUELLER (aka AWAY I A MANGER)? CRADLE SONG (aka AWAY IN A MANGER)? FLOW GENTLY SWEET AFTON?

Do you sing "Shepherds in the field abiding" or "Angels we have heard on high" as a translation of Les anges dans nos campagnes, and do you use the GLORIA or the IRIS (or another) version of the melody?

To what tune do you sing While shepherds watched their flock by night? WINCHESTER OLD? CHRISTMAS? Another?

Are there any that you regularly sing to more than one tune, or does each text have a fixed, only (or by far the most) appropriate tune in your mind?

For that matter, is there anybody here who customarily sings "Hark, the herald angels sing" to anything other than MENDELSSOHN, or anybody who normally sings the original text (starting "Hark, how all the welkin rings")?

As far as texts go, do you prefer the "What Kinder, Gentler Child Is This?" (where each stanza ends with the refrain

This, this is Christ the King, whom shepherds guard and angels sing.
Haste, haste to bring him laud, the babe, the son of Mary!),

or do you prefer a tougher-love Baby Jesus, whose second verse ends "Nails, nails shall pierce him through", etc., and the third, "Raise, raise the song on high", etc.? When you sing (or hear) "Pleased as man with men to dwell, Jesus, our Emmanuel" do you cringe at the implicit sexism, or feel warmed by the glow of tradition?

Liland

PS: There are no "right" or "wrong" answers to these things, but as a hymnal compiler I find it interesting to raise the questions.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:32 PM

The Chinese carol whose name I couldn't quite recall (above) is Sheng Ye Qing, Sheng Ye Jing, which is anglicized as "Holy Night, Blessed Night"; it's copyright (tune and text) by the Chinese New Hymnal, Chinese Hymnal Committee, People's Republic of China. (Isn't a PRC © an oxymoron? ;-)) The text is by Weiyu Zhu and Jingren Wu, 1921, English paraphrase by © (date?) Kathleen Moody; tune by Qigui Shy, 1982, arr. © Pen-li Chen, 1987.

I went to a Christmas Service of Songs and Carols (it had lessons, too, but they didn't give them marquee billing) last night at Rose Hill Presbyterian Church (a conservative-end-of-spectrum PCUSA church where I spent my high school years). It was okay. Not great.

They had four different (though overlapping) bell-choir ensembles, and spent an inordinate amount of time parading the bell choirs on and off stage and changing the locations of the bells. And the language was annoying to me. The lessons were read in some version that was for the most part so close to 1611 that the young lady charged with reading it obviously didn't know what she was saying half the time (but it wasn't straight KJV/AV, because it had Mary say to Gabriel, "seeing I have no husband" [and this is a bar to pregnancy??]). And the hymn texts and extemporaneous remarks of their Southern-Baptist-trained pastor were linguistically so non-inclusive (they use Hope's old Hymns for the Living Church, ca. 1974) that I thought "the denominational hymnal committee must be turning over in its collective grave".

On top of that, they had us sit while we sang, in pews that were designed to force one (of my stature, anyhow) to sit slumped back as if in a dentist's chair. Yikes. Notwithstanding all these detriments, there were high points, including a beautiful rendition of "Mary, Did You Know" which Nathan from Texas mentioned supra. And there was a very good and interesting presentation of some "additional verses to Silent Night" by a young lady with a fine voice, accompanied by the best of the four handbell groups. And there was a note in the program about the origins and symbolism of "The Twelve Days of Christmas" that I thought deserved to be posted in the Mudcat (so I will, in a separate thread).

The "additional verses to Silent Night" reminded me of Daniel Kantor's Night of Silence (in the GIA's 1991 Hymnal Supplement to the Lutheran Book of Worship, and also, I believe, in one of their Catholic volumes, probably Gather II.) It's designed to be sung simultaneously with Silent Night, sort of contrapuntally. Probably the best way to do it would be to have a choir sing the Kantor text while the congregation or a second choir sang the familiar Silent Night.

For those who collect such, here's the program:

Prelude - The 12 Days of Christmas - Brass Ensemble
Welcome & Blessing - Pastor Bill Zacharda

Scripture: Isaiah 11:1-3; Jeremiah 23:5-6
Carol #109* - Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus - Congregation / Brass Ensemble

*[sic; actually #102]

Bell Choir - O Come, O Come Emmanuel - Praise Ringers

Scripture: Luke 1:26-35, 46-49
Solo - My Soul Magnifies the Lord - Jean HeidalPiano: Marilyn Gauntlett Bell Choir - For the Beauty of Holiness - Praise Ringers

Scripture: Luke 2:8-12
Carol #108 - The First Noel - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
Bell Choir - What Child is This - Belles of Praise

Scripture: John 1:14, 16, 17
Carol #121 - O Little Town of Bethlehem - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
Bell Choir - Joy to the World - Belltones
Bell Choir - Silent Night - BelltonesSoloist: Nicole Hart

[Note: The soloist sang nontraditional "additional verses" - LBR]

Brass Ensemble - A Coventry Carol - Chuck Fleming / Steve Binger / Bob Read / Byron Sanborn / Dan Oberloh

Scripture: Luke 2:13-14
Carol #113 - Angels We Have Heard on High - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
Bell Choir - Away in a Manger - Bell Ensemble
Trio - Cherubim Song - The Silvertones

Scripture: Matthew 1:20, 21, 24, 25
Carol #106 - Hark, the Herald Angels Sing - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
Bell Choir - While By My Sheep - Praise Ringers

Scripture: Luke 2:25-33
Solo - Mary, Did you Know - Karol PulliamPiano: Eric Armstrong Bell Choir - Peace, Peace - Praise RingersSopranos: Karol Pulliam, Bonnie Nobriga Carol #117 - Silent Night - Congregation / Brass Ensemble.

Narrator - Margie Jones
Song Leader - Karol Pulliam
Organist - Dianne Lee
Director of Music Ministries - Dale Heidal

Liland

Subject: Xmas in the Antipodes
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:30 PM

Since there are at least a few folks here from south of the equator, I thought it might be worth asking if there are any specifically Down Under (or tropical) Christmas carols we frigid northerners might enjoy. The only one I've run into in an American hymnal is Shirley Erena Murray's Carol Our Christmas, set to Colin Gibson's tune REVERSI. I'll post it with the melody here for those who would like to try it out. It's in the New Century Hymnal (1995) and is © 1992 by Hope Publishing Company. (Murray is from New Zealand, and I don't know if there's a prior copyright in the Southern Hemisphere - text and tune are both dated 1986.) Carol our Christmas, our upside-down Christmas:
Snow is not falling and trees are not bare.
Carol the summer, and welcome the Christ Child,
Warm in our sunshine and sweetness of air.

Sing of the Gold and the green and the sparkle,
Water and river and lure of the beach.
Sing in the happiness of open spaces,
Sing a nativity summer can reach!

Shepherds and musterers move over hillside,
Finding, not angels, but sheep to be shorn;
Wise ones make journeys, whatever the season,
Searching for signs of the truth to be born.

Right-side-up Christmas belongs to the universe,
Made in the moment a woman gives birth;
Hope is the Jesus gift, love is the offering,
Everywhere, anywhere, here on the earth.
Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:29 PM

rabbitrunning requested this one...

It's one of the best-known Puerto Rican Christmas carols. The Spanish is anonymous and in the public domain. This English version is, I believe, anonymous but © 1993-1995 The Pilgrim Press. If anybody wants to try their hand at translating a carol for the public domain, it shouldn't be too hard to better this one. (I'll be working on the Esperanto version, of course, for 2001.)

For those who may wish to hear the melody I've put a (melody-line-only) MIDI of it as background here on my website (click). For a simple four-part arrangement (also usable as keyboard accompaniment to unison singing) consult The New Century Hymnal, 1995.

Liland

1. Pastores a Belén vamos con alegría,
   que ha nacido ya el hijo de María.
   Allí, allí, nos espera Jesús.
   Allí, allí, nos espera Jesús.
   Llevemos pues turrones y miel para ofrecerle al niño Manuel.
   Llevemos pues turrones y miel para ofrecerle al niño Manuel.
   Vamos, vamos, vamos a ver, vamos a ver al recién nacido,
   Vamos a ver al niño Manuel.



2. Oh niño celestial, bendice a los pastores,
   que corren al portal cantando tus loores.
   Corred, volad, sus glorias a alcanzar.
   Corred, volad, sus glorias a alcanzar.
   Ofrece a mil amor y virtud, traed, zagal, al niño Jesús.
   Ofrece a mil amor y virtud, traed, zagal, al niño Jesús.
   Vamos, vamos, vamos a ver, vamos a ver al recién nacido,
   Vamos a ver al niño Manuel.

1. As shepherds filled with joy, to Bethlehem we're going,
   for Mary's child is born this blessèd Christmas morning.
   See there, see there, the baby Jesus waits.
   See there, see there, the baby Jesus waits.
   O let us bring our honey so sweet, an offering for the Child to eat.
   Hurry, hurry, hurry and see, hurry and see the child born of Mary.
   Let's go and see Emmanuel.



2. O holy, heavenly Child, the shepherds seek your blessing,
   while singing happy songs, our hope and joy confessing.
   We run, we fly, to greet the glorious Child.
   We run, we fly, to greet the glorious Child.
   With thankful hearts we offer our best to Jesus, at the manger we'll rest.
   With thankful hearts we offer our best to Jesus, at the manger we'll rest.
   Hurry, hurry, hurry and see, hurry and see the child born of Mary.
   Let's go and see Emmanuel.

Subject: Wie schön leuchtet?
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:27 PM

Speaking of Brightest and Best what about the "Queen of Chorales", Wie schön leuchtet (words and music both by Philipp Nicolai, 1598)? You can hear the tune as background to the Winkworth translation (O Morning Star, How Fair and Bright) in The Cyber Hymnal or in my hymnal to the Esperanto version of the Swedish hymn "Var hälsad, sköna morgonstund". (Four hundred years ago, this was cutting edge stuff! It can still be rather stirring.)

Liland

Subject: Hispanic etc. carols
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:25 PM

Iberian and Latin American carols and Advent/Christmas/Epiphany hymns. These are taken from recent American hymnals, which frequently give one verse of the original (or of the Spanish version when the original is in Portuguese or Catalán) followed by three verses in English. Do any of you sing these (a) in caroling contexts, (b) as choral or solo music in church, or (c) as congregational hymns?

Toda la tierra (tune name TAULÈ) by Alberto Taulè or Taulé (I've usually seen the name with final e-grave, and assumed he was Catalonian, but I see here the New Century Hymnal gives e-acute.)
Pastores a Belén (tune name same) traditional Puerto Rican carol
Los magos que llegaron a Belén (tune name LOS MAGOS, trad. Puerto Rican) text by Manuel Fernandez Juncas
A la ru (Duermete, Niño lindo) (tune name A LA RU) "Hispanic folk song"
Cold December flies away (tune name LO DESEMBRE CONGELAT) authorship escapes me at the moment; this one's odd because it's usually called "Catalonian carol" and the tune name is in Catalán, but the "original" text normally given is in Spanish, "En en frio invernal", I think
Others? What about the "Basque Carol Tune" that somebody, was it Sabine Baring-Gould? put English words to. Anybody got the original Basque?


It's not Ibero-Hispanic, really, but sort of... anybody know or use the Filipino Manglakat na Kita sa Belen (anglicized in New Century Hymnal as "Let us even now go to Bethlehem"); how do you use it, and do you sing it in Tagalog or English or what? In the Philippines it's apparently part of some sort of wassail-like tradition of traipsing from house to house.

Liland

Subject: More favorites and queries
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:23 PM

A few songs that I haven't seen mentioned that I like are

1. A Stable Lamp is Lighted (Richard Wilbur, © 1961) to the tune ANDÚJAR (David Hurd, © 1984); there's another, earlier (© 1969) tune called TOLLEFSON (after the composer) in the Lutheran Book of Worship, but I haven't tried it yet.


2. One Candle Is Lit by Mary Anne Parrott, © 1995 Chalice Press (in the Chalice Hymnal), set to CRADLE SONG, the Kirkpatrick tune often used for Away in a Manger; this should be quite effective as a sort of antiphon to the weekly lighting of Advent candles
3. Child in the Manger to BUNESSAN ("Morning has broken")
4. On this day earth shall ring ("Personent hodie")
5. In Dulci Jubilo (macaronic with Latin the way Suso sang it, not the Neale chauvinizing version or its revisionist revisions)

A few that are in my Esperanto hymnal (see Christmas list) but that I am looking for English versions of (if you know the English texts, send me PM or email!) are:

1. At even, long ago, by C. Bingham (also titled "The Star Eternal")
2. Che l' Kristofesto ghojas ni, by Ellen Gregory
3. Det susar genom livets strid, by Carl Boberg (famous in English for How Great Thou Art, but none of his other Swedish hymns seem to have been translated - into English, that is; we have several in Esperanto)
4. Fra fjord og fjære, by Magnus Brostrup Landstad
5. La Saghuloj pro Advento, by Leonard Ivor Gentle
6. Min själ berömmer Gud med fröjd, another one by Boberg (this time his Magnificat)
7. Mit Hjerte altid vanker, by Hans Adolph Brorson
8. My heart and voice I raise, by Benjamin Rhodes
9. No koma Guds englar, by Elias Blix
10. Sæle jolekveld, by Elias Blix (to the tune usually associated with Jesu, geh voran)

Liland

Subject: to mouldy
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:22 PM

mouldy,
I noticed your post on "It came upon the midnight clear", and am wondering what tune you sing it to. I'm American, and we almost without exception sing it to "Carol" by Richard Willis; in England I'm under the impression it's most often sung to "Noel", a traditional English tune arranged by Sir Arthur Sullivan; this is sometimes met with in hymnals in the Anglican-influenced traditions here (US), but is rarely sung even in the churches whose hymnals have it. Where are you and what tune do you use? (If you want to be reminded which is which, you can hear "Carol" and "Noel", if your computer plays MIDI files, as the background music here (Carol) and here (Noel) respectively in my Esperanto hymnal.)
Liland

Subject: 12 Days of Christmas etc.
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:20 PM

From an insert in the program of "An Evening of Christmas Songs and Carols", Rose Hill Presbyterian Church, Kirkland, Washington, USA, Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 7:00 pm. (I've refrained from correcting or emending the text - LBR)

The Twelve Days of Christmas

In England during the period of 1558 to 1829, Catholics were
prohibited by law    from any practice of their faith
- private or public. It was a crime to be a Catholic.

"The Twelve Days of Christmas" was written in England as one of the 'catechism songs' to help young Catholics learn the tenets of their faith. During that period a person caught with anything in 'writing' indicating an adherence to the Catholic faith could not only be imprisoned, but could also be hanged.

The song's gifts are hidden meanings to the teachings of the faith.

"True Love" mentioned in the opening line refers to God.
"Me" refers to every baptized person.

The other symbols mean the following:

1. Partridge in a Pear Tree = Jesus Christ
2. Turtle Doves = The Old and New Testaments
3. French Hens = Faith, Hope and Charity    or
   the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity)
4. Calling Birds = The Four Gospels and/or the Four Evangelists
5. Golden Rings = The first Five Books of the Old Testament    or
   The Catholic Church's five obligatory sacraments: baptism, communion, confirmation, penance and last rites
6. Geese A-laying = The six days of creation
7. Swans A-swimming = The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit, the seven sacraments
8. Maids A-milking = The eight beatitudes or the eight times a year that Roman Catholics in those days were required to receive Holy Communion
9. Ladies Dancing = The nine Fruits of the Holy Spirit
10. Lords A-leaping = The Ten Commandments
11. Pipers Piping = The eleven apostles, excluding Judas
12. Drummers Drumming = The twelve points of doctrine in the Apostle's Creed

As an aside it may be worth mentioning, in the light of the above (somewhat but not entirely exaggerated) description of the persecution of England's Catholics, that the Faber hymn "Faith of our fathers", which has long been a mainstay of evangelical Protestant hymnody at least in the US, was written precisely in memory of those Catholic fathers (in both senses) who kept the Roman faith alive in England:

Faith of our fathers, living still
In spite of dungeon, fire, and sword,
Oh, how our hearts beat high with joy
Whene'er we hear that glorious word.
Faith of our fathers, holy faith,
We will be true to thee till death.
The original text of the hymn had a verse wherein it was affirmed that "Mary's prayers / will win all England back to thee". Speaking of which it's interesting to note that the 12 Days of Christmas as interpreted above contain not a whiff of Mariolatry or hagiolatry, as we Protestants misterm hyperdulia and dulia.

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 09:01 PM

Guest, Jean Ritchie - I really don't believe that you're THE REAL JEAN RITCHIE! But it really doesn't matter. You seem to know all about her. BTW, tell her that many of us here think she's great! Here's a link to her homepage, click. And here's a link to the page with her Christmas record, "Kentucky Christmas- Old & New" and the song "Best and Brightest", here.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:29 PM

Liland- If "sun" IS a change, I vote that it's a good one. The whole of that chorus is addressed to the Star: Brightest and best of the suns of the morning, Dawn on our darkness and lend us thine aid; Star in the east, the horizon adorning, Guide where our infant Redeemer is laid.

Also- the "Son of the morning" was (is?),I think, Lucifer!

Loved your song about the five historical ladies- certainly something to think on... Jean

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 07:04 PM

Anybody know a song called "Borning Day" from an old Harry Belafonte album? I've sung it at our coffee house the last two Decembers and it always gets lots of "I've never heard that before"s. It's one of my favorites!

Also, anything by John Rutter is perfect!

Subject: Re: O Come, O Come Emmanuel
From: Haruo
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 01:46 AM

Those who like "O Come, O Come Emmanuel" (or its Latin original, "Veni, veni Emmanuel") I invite to read my post concerning the O Antiphons that lie behind the hymn. This is the week these antiphons are on the Vespers menu.

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:33 PM

Tattie Bogle, I love the Boar's Head Carol, but I think calling it "religious" is a bit of a stretch. I think "in honour of the King of Bliss" is really just an excuse to eat a pig's head. Here at Seattle's Fremont Baptist Church we sing it "in Fremonstrensi atrio". And we have indeed sung it (though never yet with a real boar's head for a prop!).

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:18 PM

Incidentally, since I mentioned An Online Christmas Songbook above, I should add that I really like their early-American fuging tune setting of Joy to the World, to SHOUTING JOY.

By the way, Jean, in your local dialect is there a difference between "suns" and "sons" (a difference in pronunciation, I mean - would a listener know which you were singing? "Sons" is the way Heber wrote it back in 1811, but some later Protestant hymnals changed it to "Stars" (probably for fear the Brightest and Best Son might be confused with the Infant Himself); "Suns" is an interesting and useful compromise.

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:07 PM

Liland- Forgot to say that we sang, "suns" instead of "sons" of the morning, as the song is addressed to the Christmas star, the "Star in the East." Jean

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:03 PM

Snuffy and Liland- Thanks for the variations and the information. Interesting, even to a non-scholar like myself. The nearest tune to ours is one of the MIDI versions: Southern Harmony 1835 (arr. Wm. Walker). But we never had songbooks; I think Granny Katty had heard it sung in the Old Regular Baptist Church she went to, and just disremembered the tune. She love to sing but was not very good with getting tunes right, so over the years "our" tune evolved. If you care to you can hear my family singing it (it's the song sample from my Christmas record, "Kentucky Christmas- Old & New"). Don't know how to put it online here, but you can go to my site, www.jeanritchie.com click on Recordings, find the Christmas record then click on the song sample.

Anyway, this is the "folk" way the song is sung in the Kentucky Mountains! Jean

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:54 PM

What about the masses/oratorios?

Messiah

Praetorius Christmas Mass (already mentioned this on another thread)

Bach "Christmas Oratorio"

Czech "Christmas Mass"

Favourite carols - "Three Kings from Persian Lands afar" especially the final "offer my heart" - O Holy Night

- The Boar's Head and anything in Latin!

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:51 PM

For anyone planning on actually singing "Hail the blest morn (Brightest and Best)" from An Online Christmas Songbook, be aware that there are two typos in the text there presented: it should read "Shepherds, go worship the babe in the manger" (v.1, l.3)
(not "the base in the manger")
and
"Richer by far is the heart's adoration" (v.4, l.3)
(not "richer be far").
Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:33 PM

Somebody mentioned "Shepherds Rejoice" to Oxford, as in The Sacred Harp; I also like it to Billings' tune Boston, as in my hymnal. And while I'm plugging my own stuff, I should mention my Christmas/Innocents carol, In Bethlem Town, to the "Pesky Sarpent/Springfield Mountain" tune. The tune may seem a bit jaunty for the slaughter of the innocent children, but surely the same cavil applies in case of snakebite, non? And I do now have the correct tune (though not a very well sequenced MIDI of it) at Who'd Have Thought the Lord Almighty, my "sacred ballad" in memory and honour of the women of Matthew 1 (i.e. Jesus' ancestrices).

My Online Christmas Carols in Esperanto page is a useful list of much of my Christmas stuff. My general Songlist (including secular material) is in the Mudcat Links list.

There's a Chinese carol (it's in the 1990 (PCUSA) Presbyterian Hymnal (aka Hymns, Psalms and Spiritual Songs); I think also in the 1995 Episcopal Wonder Love and Praise) called something like "Sheng Yi Chen, Shen Qi Chen" (Chinese is not one of my many languages!), that is beautiful.

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:59 PM

The Cyber Hymnal's Star in the East is not the same as the shapenote tunes by that name used for Brightest and Best of the Sons of the Morning. Not at all. There are two different tunes "Star in the East" in the US shapenote tunebooks, for that matter, and they are as far as I can tell unrelated (though both are used for Brightest and Best). The one from the Southern Harmony is twice as long as the one from the Sacred Harp; the Southern Harmony tune is usually set either so you sing the "Brightest and Best" stanza as a refrain (as in An Online Christmas Songbook's rendition, or else two stanzas of the text are sung to one stanza of the tune, often with the anonymous first (half-)stanza "Hail the blest morn" (also found in Sacred Harp) or with "Brightest and Best" repeated as a final half-stanza. MIDIs of both (as well as six other tunes, one of them the shapenote tune "Walker") are available in my Esperanto hymnal (go to the Esperanto version of Brightest and Best, Filo plej hela, and scroll down below the text to get to the MIDI links. The background music is Thrupp's Epiphany Hymn. The most common "mainstream [i.e. Northern, roundnote] Protestant" US setting is Harding's Morning Star, though in the last 20 years or so one often sees shapenote tunes (albeit not actually in shape notes!) in Yankee hymnals. I'd never heard of setting it to Lime Street before; the tune I am missing (if anybody has it, by all means send it or post it) is Epiphany (Hopkins). The Cyber Hymnal (which, linkers be warned, changed its URL last week; it was at tch.simplenet.com, now it's at www.wordnic.com/~tch) has another tune named "Epiphany (Filby)" which with a bit of judicious editing can also be made to fit this text quite well.

Liland

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:30 PM

Jean,

Mudcatter Liland has seven tunes for Brightest and Best on this page of his Esperanto site. The very first one EPIPHANY HYMN by JF Thrupp is the one that I know, and there are two versions of Star in the East from the Sacred Harp, but I don't know if they've been "Ritchized" or not.

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 09:23 AM

I picked up an Andy Williams CD and it has "Some Children See Him" which is more religious than not. I'd almost forgotten it, and it was nice to hear it again.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Caitrin
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 07:23 PM

*grins* Matt, don't take yourself so bloody seriously! She was just joking! "I Wonder As I Wander" has always been one of my favorites. Lovely alto or tenor solo. "Riu Riu Chiu" is great, too...I especially like it as done by a men's choir. I'm quite fond of madrigals, so "Nowell Sing We Clear" is one of my favorites to sing. When I'm in a show-off mood, though, "Angels We Have Heard On High" and "Stille Nacht" are my choices.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 07:11 PM

Well Ella, I heard the song before I even knew who they were, much less knew what they look like.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:55 PM

Click for Star in the East. The music starts playing automatically when you go to the page.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean Ritchie
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:24 PM

Snuffy- It appears here in the shape-note hymnals as, "Star in the East." Granny, however, didn't carry a tune too well so it became "Ritchized" over the years. My older sisters, learning it from her shortly after the turn of the century, passed it on down in the family. I'm the youngest, born in '22, am now 78.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 04:27 AM

lol Matt... are you sure it's just the song you like?

(giggle)

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Matt_R
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 09:35 PM

I like "Salva Nos" by the Medieval Baebes

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 08:42 PM

Sorry about the attack of italics. My excuse is I was distracted by having to switch to the Ragtime server when the other one died as I pressed Submit.

The original posting had no mistakes whatsoever. Honest!! **BG**

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 08:38 PM

Guest Jean Ritchie

I've always loved "Brightest and Best of the Suns of the Morning."

My hymnal (Songs of Praise) gives two tunes, but neither are the one I know her in the UK. The ones it gives are:

• LIEBSTER IMMANUEL Late form of melody from Himmels-Lust 1679) - 3 1/2-notes to a bar
• LIME STREET Geoffrey Shaw - 1 1/2-note and 2 1/4-notes to a bar

The hymn is in 11.10.11.10 verse meter, but none of the other tunes in that meter are the one I know. Which tune do you use?

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Guest- Jean Ritchie
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 08:00 PM

Thanks, someone, way back up the thread,who liked my song, "The Holly Carol." I love ALL carols, but my very favorite of all time is my Granny Catty's Old Christmas hymn, "Brightest and Best of the Suns of the Morning."

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Trevor
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 01:47 PM

I like 'Gabriel's Message' and 'Il est ne'. Last year we sang a mediaeval carol called 'As I Outrode This Enders Night' - anybody know it?

'Rocking' always reminds me of the kid's carol service where the little ones always sing 'We will ro kyew, ro kyew, ro kyew'. Our choirmaster is always on about getting more enunciation of the 'K' sound - we must have forgotten it somewhere along the line!

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Jimmy C
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 12:57 AM

I like many religious christmas carols but my favourite has to be the "Huron Carol"
Others are
Angels we have Heard on High Adeste Fideles ( Oh come all you faithful)
and of course " Silent Night"

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 11:02 PM

I'll have to go looking. I've never heard of most of the songs you mentioned, Les, and am now fascinated.

My favorite version of Coventry Carol is the one the King's Singers did on "A Little Christmas Music." The arrangement jars me almost as much as the song does. Don't know why it's a favorite, when it gives me the creeps every year, but there it is.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 04:41 PM

Sorry about the lack of blue clicky in my last post. I'll get modern one of these days. But I should mention The Voice Squad's rendition of Coventry Carol - that's the absolute best there is.

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 04:16 PM

My favourites? Jacob's Well, Diadem, Pentonville, Awake Arise, Oughtibridge, There's a very strong carolling tradition in South Yorkshire. I was in the Royal at Dungworth last Sunday, singing along (with about 200 others) to a whole range of carols that you don't hear in many other places. If you want to know a bit more about South Yorkshire carols have a look at:- http://web2.si.edu/folkways/40476.htm (gives details of a Smithsonian Folkways CD) http://www.sgpublishing.co.uk/gm/vc/vcfest.html (Ian Russell's site, giving details of everything else)

Cheers, Les

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 12:13 PM

hey... I'm from the UK I'm allowed to be eccentric

and we sing it round here for caroling... well not me... because it's too bloomin cold.

and don't you just hate know it alls

Oh be quiet

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....

So... shove it - bah bloomin humbug and all their scroogy friends...

(JOKING.... before anyone attacks me)

Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 11:11 AM

Good King Wenceslas looked out ON THE FEAST OF STEPHEN - which is Dec 26th! (Boxing day too.) But it's still Christmassy...