Last day of the 20th Century

Subject: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 05:56 AM

Is no-one going to comment on the passing of the Century that we have all grown to know and love.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:16 AM

Good riddance?

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:25 AM

Lets not start that controversy again but I reckon that the new millenium will not start untill 2:37pm on tuenesday the 35th of Octember;-)

Happy one anyway

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:37 AM

Well.. while we are on the subject, until 1781 the New year started on Lady Day (25th of March) so we still have 3 months to go before 2000 years has passed... Any more comments?

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:56 AM

Happy New Year, New Century, and New Millennium!

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:58 AM

So how about the New Year beginning on 1st November then? It always used to...... The church year began on Dec 1st, the first Sunday in Advent, and I daresay there are other calendars out there who are still in a different millennium.....

As for this year - apart from finding a great job - thank f*%$ it's over!!!

LTS

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:59 AM

Check back in the papers of the time (it's easily done on the Internet) - the 1st January 1901 was everywhere referred to as being the start of a new century (except for people who didn't go in for the AD system at all). Oscar Wilde dying in Paris in the last days of the year cracked a joke about the fact that it wouldn't have been appropriate for him to live into the new century. There just wasn't any controversy about it at all.

And that is one hundred years ago tonight exactly. Case proved.

The Spanish of course have got it right, and saved up their celebrations or whatever till tonight.

In 1901 there was a lot of optimism around. It didn't really work out too well though, did it? This time people are a bit more cautious, I think, about expecting things to come right. That's probably a good thing.

"Hope for the best and prepare for the worst" was what my Mother used to say. And those are precisely my sentiments for the new Century and the new Millennium.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Midchuck
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:14 AM

In college in '59 or '60 I was at a nuclear disarmament meeting at which various authoritative sources whose identity I forget were quoted to the effect that there was virtually zero chance of civilization lasting another ten years, barring a miracle. So I consider the century didn't go all that badly, all things considered.

Realisticly, if I'd been born into any prior century, I'd have almost certainly been dead in childhood, of one of the various illnesses I had. And if I had survived to adulthood, I'd be over my normal life expectancy now. And I wouldn't be here on the net. I wouldn't be able to talk to anyone except the people living in my own village. A lot of them are fine folks, but very few share my interests. I can only converse for so long - on the order of a minute or less - about deer hunting and professional sports.

With all its faults, I prefer now to the good old days. Even if that's not the attitude a folky is supposed to take.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:16 AM

"So how about the New Year beginning on 1st November then? It always used to..."

I would be inclined to go for the New Year starting when the days start getting longer again Dec 22nd? but how does that work out world wide?

Jon

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: kendall
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:18 AM

Other than our politics, we have a lot in common mid chuck

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:19 AM

Erm... Liz.. what country are you talking about that started its year on 1st Nov.. certainly not the UK.
When we changed the start of the year from Lady Day (25 Mar) to 1st Jan the calendar also jumped 11 days as we were out of line with the rest of Europe. This is why the Inland Revenue's year starts on 5 April (25mar + 11 days). This happened on Oct 3rd 1781 which became 14th Oct. So 1781 was only 9 months long. The following year started 1st Jan
There were even people marching outside Parliament who thought that the government had stolen 11 days of their lives.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:31 AM

"There were even people marching outside Parliament who thought that the government had stolen 11 days of their lives."

That wasn't their gripe. The trouble was if you owed money you had to pay it 11 days earlier than you would otherwise, and it affected the interest paid on debts and so forth. Imagine what'd happen if that happened tiofday, and you found your annual holidays had notionally taken place during the nmissing days, and so forth.

Outr ancestors weren't any more stupid than the ancestors of our descendants will be accused of being.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Allan C.
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:32 AM

By the Great Mandella we still have another day to go. But so what?!!

Last year was monumentally great for me in many ways and hard as hell in others. I think they all have been like that in varying proportions. I'm just glad to be alive - no matter what which calendar says.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:47 AM

With the exception of one all too brief love affair the last year was one of the worst in my life. So I agree with Carol, Good Riddance.

As far as the end of a century and millennium goes, we all have to look at it from a personal perspective. The period brought much horror and death but also many great and wonderful things. I wouldn't even want to try to calculate a balance for the millenium or for the century. I don't think it could be done.

So from my own perspective, the 48 years I have spent in this century have, overall, been pretty good. The balance of my life definitely comes down on the good side. There have been plenty of rough times, and tough times, but they are balanced by the good times, the loving times, the sweet times.

Here's hoping the 21st Century is all that Walter Cronkite predicted.

Happy New Year! Happy New Century! Happy New Millennium!

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Gervase
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 01:40 PM

Aye, what a century. Maybe not as bad as previous centuries, but it was the one we know most about, thanks to the popular press, photography, the moving picture and broadcasting - and the fact that we were there!
As for the new one; who knows? After all, all is for the best in this best of all possible worlds.
Here's hoping...

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 01:58 PM

"Maybe not as bad as previous centuries" - well, maybe. Or maybe not. It certainly didn't pan out the way the hopeful people in 1901 thought it would. So many horrors they thought they'd put behind them came back again worse than ever.

We can just hope this time it doesn't work out that way. And do anything we can towards that end. I think pessimism can sometimes be a better foundation for achieving good ends than optimism.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 02:04 PM

Not going to get pulled into that one again otherwise I'll be the odd one out again!

Suffice it to say Happy New Year to everyone!

Peace

mcmoo

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 02:05 PM

Had I lived in an earlier century I would also not be around now at the ripe old age of 41. If childbirth didn't kill me, my appendix- which ruptured as the surgeon removed it- would have.
And a century ago the thought that you could sit in your living room and converse with people all over the world at the same time was unthinkable! So, warts and all, it's not been such a bad little century. If we can get through the next four years I have cautious optimism for the next hundred.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Amergin
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 02:06 PM

Uh, John Hill, November 1st was the first of the new year in what is now the UK.....check your history.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Amergin
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 02:13 PM

You know, I'd probably not be alive at 26 either, dead from various illnesses as a child....or if I had survived those, I'd probably be deaf instead of suffering from partial hearing loss.....and then had gone on to die from the lack of minddrugs and/or heavy alcohol consumption.... Thank whoever there is to thank that this fucking year is over.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: flattop
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 02:25 PM

Ah what a great day to be alive. No other generation got to play in the litter box with so many mudcatters. It's even a great day to do laundry. I'm late but I've finished one load of darks and the washer is filling for the whites. I put a fresh bag in the garbage can in the kitchen so that, even if I don't conquer the world, I'll have a fresh bag of garbage in the new year. Happy New Year one and all!

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Matt_R
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 02:37 PM

Heheh The Eagles are on at 4:00pm today. Watch your futures END! BWA HA HA HA!!!

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 02:56 PM

well, we have all (mostly) been doing New Years Eve on Dec 31 and considering Jan 1 as the start of a new year..seems the most 'common' practice around...so it's just a matter of WHICH year you feel ends the century/millenium....I have been told all my life that it ends tonight, and the techies agree with me ...but everyone else shot their wad LAST year, and they are bored...so.....I will say to you all, Happy New Year, Happy New Century, and.....Happy New Millenium

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 03:06 PM

Let us hope that we progress more in wisdom rather than merely time and technology. Happy New Year/Century. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: wildlone
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 03:20 PM

Watched Robot wars on TV it was the UK versus the USA.
The UK won. dave

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: wildlone
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 03:21 PM

Bugger it!! I wanted to say Happy New Wotsit or whatever

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 04:08 PM

Here's a short shelf life song from a live performance that doesn't seem to be on the net anymore. (c) Bob Franke. I could be wrong about the tune, and it doesn't sound like Handsome Cabin Boy, but what's it gonna matter in another day...

I had a dream the other night as strange as it was long
They told me to remember, so I wrote this little song
An angel took me by the hand, to the theater we did go
He paid the tab and we took our seats, and he said "enjoy the show."

The picture had not drawn too well, the audience were three
Yours truly and the angel and a man I couldn't see
I turned to get a better look, but then the lights went low
I knew that I would have to wait till the ending of the show

The titles flashed to a trumpet call in a Christmas red and green
The final revelation flashed the words across the screen
I expected Charlton Heston, but I did not know the score
The film was science fiction, set in 1984

It was in Ann Arbor, Michigan, the cradle of the weird
A middle-aged revivalist was shaving off his beard
He gazed upon his razor blade, two edges on a side
He dropped the blade, and his friends all prayed as out in tongues he cried

It was half an hour later he resumed his steady stare
His friends all gathered 'round him and they helped him to a chair
"Praise God," he said, "What did the Holy Spirit through me say?"
"Praise God," his friends replied, "He has revealed the judgement day!"

"It was easy to interpret," one disciple said in tears
"Two edges on your razor signified two thousand years
The second edge implied the second coming, as it fell
We've only sixteen years before the tolling of the bell."

"Praise God," replied the preacher, "We must all increase our zeal.
To save a million souls before the trumpet's final peal."
"Praise God," one young disciple cried, "We finally know the date."
"Praise God," replied the minister, "The hour is getting late."

"Praise God, praise God, praise God, praise God," the anthem did resound
"Praise God," the cry re-echoed as the movement gathered ground
And in this fertile ground, the new theology did flower
The ones on whom the Spirit smiles, are the ones who know the hour

The old denominations lost their congregations soon
The camera panned St Andrew's on a Sunday afternoon
An old priest at the alter and two sinners on a pew
A drunken cowboy playing gin with an unrepentant Jew

The sixteen years of praising past in holy days and nights
The president converted and repealed the Bill of Rights
A Congress full of praisers did not ask him to resign
They might as well wait for New Year's Eve of 1999

On New Year's Eve 1999, at the temple in Times Square
Manhattan almost sinking from the weight of people there
The clock it struck 2000 and they dropped the final ball
And twenty million people heard the trumpet's final call

But the trumpets had been rented, and musicians paid at scale
The movement was discredited, and its leaders thrown in jail
A year of burning bibles and destruction did ensue - till
New Year's Eve 2000 - cut to the cowboy and the Jew

"What time is it," the cowboy asked, as he tried to fill his hand.
"It's getting close to midnight...Gin!...yes, you I did reprimand
It's now 11:59, the hour is getting late
You owe me seven-fifty, but I'll suppose I'll have to wait

You'd think in all that fuss last year that someone might have known
Remembred Stanley Kubrik, and his film '2001'
Or if they just knew how to count, they might have got it right."
The cowboy said, "Well Jesus Christ, the millenium ends tonight!"

Then the Lord revealed his glory to the nations, one and all
And Jesus threw a party in His Father's holy hall
Saying "Come all ye of little faith, it is my Father's will
You're turkeys, but you're children of God, and I guess I love you still."

And most went in when they saw him wave, but some declined with thanks
He knew that they were scandalized by sinners in the ranks
He said "Cowboy, please don't close that door - leave it open just a bit.
You can never tell when the worst of them will get tired of the same old material."

The lights came up and I wrote this song and I leave it up to you
I may have nostacised it some, as dreamers often do
The other guy who saw the show, I finally got my look
It was Father Andrew Greeley, and I guess he'll write the book

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 04:21 PM

And, no, I don't have a clue what "nostacised" means, but that's what it sounded like.

By the way, Happy New Wotsit!

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 04:35 PM

McGrath of Harlow wrote: "Check back in the papers of the time (it's easily done on the Internet) - the 1st January 1901 was everywhere referred to as being the start of a new century (except for people who didn't go in for the AD system at all)."

Yes the London "Daily Mail" for 1 January 1901 reports that most of Europe celebrated the start of the new century except in Sweden
where they had celebrated the new century the previous year. I suppose Russia still on the old-style calendar had 11 more days to wait.

Cheers,
Colwyn.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 05:15 PM

Yup, the Guardian (London)put out a Book of the 20th Century, made up of extracts from the Guardian over the whole century - and they did it to mark what it had decided to treat as the start of the 21st century, Jan 1st 2000.

The first item in the book was a long piece about the celebrations for the start of the 20th century - dated 1st January 1901...

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 05:10 AM

Amergin... sorry you are wrong. I don't know where you live but Nov 1 was not the first day of the year in the UK. Even back as far as 1538 which was when the parish churches were ordered by parliament to keep records of births, marriages and deaths, the year started on 25th March.. the first of the "English quarter days". So 24th March 1538 was followed by 25th March 1539. This was not changed until 1782.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 05:34 AM

Sorry I got the year wrong. It was 1752 when the change took place.. not 1782. See here
http://www.metcalfwaslin.org/links/ladyday.htm
Note that 25th March was also the first day of the year in America too.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 05:54 AM

There is more here too.
http://www.lexscripta.com/articles/millennium.html
Apologies on the back of a ten pound note please.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 06:43 AM

Uh, Guest, look before Christianity.........

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 07:49 AM

You must be a bit older than me if you can remember back that far.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,carmelgunning
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 08:01 AM

Glad 2000 is all over and looking forward to 2001

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 08:55 AM

Anyway, at least we can all agree we're living in the 21st century now. And the Third Millennium.

Next question is, how long is it going to be before we stop saying "Two thousand and..."? I suspect it'll be 2013. And will we find it more natural to say "Twenty thirteen" etc, or "Twenty hundred and thirteen" etc ?

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 12:37 PM

More to the point when will the Americans stop putting dates backwards so the rest of the world knows what they mean ... Today is 02/01/01

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 12:45 PM

Funny, John, my body is young but my soul is ageless...so yes a part of me does remember that far....

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 12:50 PM

That beats me..I can't remember what I had for dinner most days

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Bert
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 01:02 PM

Now let's be sensible about this.
I celebrated last year and I celebrated this year. Now John Hill tells me I can celebrate again on 25th. of March.

I should also celebrate 21st. of March 'cos that's the pagan New Year (and the Persian New year "Now Rooz"). And then I can celebrate again on the first of November. And we can add eleven days to EACH of those celebrations and have another party.

It seems to me that this is going to be a GOOD year.

Happy new yearrrrrrssssss.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 01:42 PM

One good thing about Millennium/Centennial Day was that whether you were in America or England it was still the same date - 01/01/01.

And it was the only date I know you could shout out loud with any degree of swagger - "OI, OI, OI!" - and a much more special-looking date than the 1st of January last year - 01/01/00 - "OI,OI,OO!" - what an anti-climax of a shout!

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: NightWing
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 07:05 PM

Good grief, no! When is ANY part of the world going to get it right and call it 01/01/02 (2001 Jan 02). Now THAT's right!

*L*

BB,
NightWing

On, and bert, pagans (generally) celebrate Samhain as the beginning of the year: November 1, not March 21. Which is, of course, what Amergin was talking about. 'Course since most of those cultures didn't particularly number the years like we do, it doesn't matter too much.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 07:44 PM

Erm... Liz.. what country are you talking about that started its year on 1st Nov.. certainly not the UK. When we changed the start of the year from Lady Day (25 Mar) to 1st Jan the calendar also jumped 11 days as we were out of line with the rest of Europe. This is why the Inland Revenue's year starts on 5 April (25mar + 11 days). This happened on Oct 3rd 1781 which became 14th Oct. So 1781 was only 9 months long. The following year started 1st Jan

Not entirely Pre history UK, Celtic Calendar, check Susan Cooper for contemporary reference in 'The Grey King' - on the day of the dead when the old year dies..... It was the custom in the UK to elect a 'Lord of Misrule' on 31st Oct, to preside over the festivities "from New Years' Eve to Twelfth Night", actually ruling until Candlemas, 2nd Feb. Records exist of one for the Court of Edward III, 1348, and it only died out in the 17th Century.

We lost our 11 days in September, not October 1752, I know because it meant I would have had my birthday 11 days early.

The year may have begun on 25th March, but no one bothered to celebrate then. We took Jan 1st as New Years, because it was already a celebration of the feast of fools (feast of the Circumcision)and it was the feast day of Janus, the 2 faced god of the Romans; a suitable date because one face looked ahead, and the other looked at what had gone before. The feast was called the Kalendae Januarii, hence the name of January. It was practice, taken from that roman festival, to give presents on that day, rather than Christmas.

Christmas used to be celebrated in June, (named after Juno), until around 340 ish. when it was plopped on top of the already existing festivities of Saturnalia, Yule and the midwinter (beginning of winter/end of year) Solstice. Spring officially started on March 21/22/25th, summer on June 21st, Autumn on Sept 21/22/29th and Winter on Dec 21st. These Quarter days were kept on but given Christian relevancies, Lady Day - feast of fertility, Spring begins, new life, annunciation. Add 9 months you get Dec 25th.... coincidence?? Autumn became Michaelmas - St Michael, chief angel and devil botherer, and June was something else that I've forgotten.

Anyone else got any other dates and festivals to add??

LTS

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 08:01 PM

You missed out May Day for one.

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 08:08 PM

I meant for Christmas/New years!!

May Day was a festival long before it was a socialist event.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 09:18 PM

Hey,Liz, you're a Susan Cooper fan, too? I love those books...

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:18 AM

This is all nonsense!! The new century and new millennium began on 1st Jan 2000: we are now in the twentieth century and the second millennium! Let me just go over that once more ...

Steve

Subject: RE: Last day of the 20th Century
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:33 AM

mmmm,

Steve you are very wrong.

Do you know what 2 + 2 makes?