In praise of women/In praise of men

Subject: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 09:48 AM

It may just be early February, but the fake flamers thread and the threads about broads vs. men I know are supposed to be funny, but I just find them depressing.
So:
A few words in praise of women --
If there were no women in my life, I would go and jump off the nearest bridge, because even the ones I have had difficulty with in my life are physical embodiments of a kind of living beauty that the angels pine for, and envy me that I can embrace them. One of them gave birth to me, and I see mothers with their children all day every day, just keeping the species going. I stood one day in a slum in Bombay where there was no running water, and out of the meanest huts, children in beautiful white clothes walked away to school. Their mothers did that: how they did it I do not know. They do it every day. Women have a physical nobility about them, young and old, that stirs my heart. If it were not for women, most of the family ties, history, relationships, warmth of daily life, would wither away. There are good women, and not so good women, but I don't know one that wouldn't be better with a bit more love in their lives -- and I see many whose greatest pain is that they have never been able to give love fully to another. They are the ones who hold the world together. A group that contains Madame Curie, Georgia O'Keefe, Billie Holliday, Ginger Rogers, and my mother is worth praising.

A few words in praise of men --
I have had hard times with men, and do not love them to distraction as I do women, probably because I am one, and am closer to their faults; but the closest to me, my father, defended in battle what he believed to be the right, watched all his friends die, and carries on with great humour into a hard old age. Men, some men anyway, have a no nonsense approach to many things, especially those who work with their hands or can do something well. They have a confident energy which can be misplaced, but when it is rightly directed, changes the world. "Let us stop talking about it, picking away at it, and see if we can do something about it" -- is something one can see in their bodies and ways of moving through the world. It makes them thoughtless, but on the other hand, they will not continually pick up the flower by the roots to see how it is doing. Like ordinary women, ordinary men make it through the day, putting up with indignities and weariness for the sake of those they love. They are deeply loyal to their friends, and should their family or children be threatened, they will protect them to the death, immediately, without thought. A group that contains Abraham Lincoln, Socrates, Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, and my father is worth praising.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: CamiSu
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 09:56 AM

Thank you, Peter.

CamiSu

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 10:09 AM

Beautiful antidote, Peter. Thank you.

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: GUEST,Bun
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 10:13 AM

I despise the so called "funny" e-mails about how women should learn to put up toilet seats. And how men are the limp skin at the end of a penis.
None of us are perfect, we should respect the good qualities we have. Men and women are different - thats the way it is.
thanks peter
Bun

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 10:49 AM

Well spoken { or written } Peter. Where would any of us be without the opposite sex ?

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Allan C.
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:11 AM

"After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her."

- Mark Twain, "Adam's Diary"

While not every woman will fit onto a pedestal nor maintain any sense of comfort on such a perch, I like to put most of them there purely out of respect - unless they prefer hugs instead.

Sure, there are some women who are so self-involved as to make being around them a chore. There are some women who have allowed themselves to fall prey to the many stereotypical images with which they are bombarded by the media - not necessarily speaking of physical images here. There are women who see men as potential conquests - nothing more.

There are exceptions. These women have my greatest respect.

As for men...I guess far too many of them have become products of modern culture. Many have no idea how to talk with one another. Many have no idea how to express emotions to one another other than conceit or perhaps excitement over some sporting event. Many have no idea how to be friends with women without necessarily being driven toward bedding them.

There are exceptions. These men have my greatest respect.

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Kim C
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:13 AM

Peter, have I told you lately that I love you? ;)

KFC

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:31 AM

Nice post Peter, but Allan nailed it. I hate stereotypes and can't think of a single friend who fits the mold. The lists have elements of truth, but by and largemy friends don't fit, my wife doesn't fit, I don't fit, and our marriage doesn't fit.

Spaw

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:31 AM

Thank you for some balance, Peter. It's threads like those that have (mostly) driven me away from Mudcat. It makes me sad when people are looking to generalize & pigeonhole *any* group. Some people have a lot of maturing to do. I wish they'd get to it!

best to you,

bbc

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:58 AM

There is room for both humor and sentiment. Thanks, Peter, for a nice piece.

Alex

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Pseudolus
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 12:00 PM

I agree, nice post Peter. I must however make a point about the posts that are being panned a bit here. I believe that there are traits that are predominantly male and some that are predominantly female and it's those that allow us to poke a little fun at each other AND oueselves. It's the simple fact that some of us DON'T have those stereotypical traits that "makes the world go 'round"! For example, we could take many of the "praises" of women and apply them to men and vice versa. Because some folks have taken to a discussion of these stereotypes doesn't mean necessarily that they are generalizing or pigeonholing anyone or group. It could be that they are taking the time to laugh a little at themselves and how sometimes they fall into those categories. There is a time and place for all of these posts. I think this was a good time for Peter's.

Frank

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Kim C
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 12:11 PM

Pseudolus, I love you too. ;)

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 12:26 PM

I agree that the other threads were funny in parts, and that they were working from a basic unspoken assumption that the relationships between men and women (particularly between those living together and putting up with each other's foibles) were a good thing. But (like a lot of things in relationships) the basic assumptions better get said from time to time, or everyone just gets weary. I was 20 times happier writing here about the great things I see in men and women (and thinking about the things I didn't say -- the gentleness of men, the no-nonsense of women -- the opposites of what I said) than I was trying to find funny ways of saying bad things about them. And I am a sarcastic, ironic, bastard, as those who know me know. Just trying maybe to balance off my own tendencies (some days you can get me started on the whole human race, and how its eradication would be a good thing; but one Audrey Hepburn and I forgive them everything. Speciesism!!! )

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 12:32 PM

Seen as a headline today...

1000's of diabetics killed by saccharine web thread

Film at 11

LOL!!

;-)

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Pseudolus
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 12:34 PM

Kim, Now I'm blushin'.....

Peter, Balance is a beautiful thing....besides no one told me they loved me in those other threads!!

Frank

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 12:41 PM

Well said, Peter. I too tend toward cynicism and sarcasm, and can use an occasional antidote.

I can say wholeheartedly that I think sexual reproduction was one of the Creator's best ideas.

Further there are women (esp. my (maternal) grandmother, mother, and wife) whom I admire far beyond my ability to praise, for what they stand (or stood, in the case of my g'mother) for, what they accomplished, and their strength of character.

There are also men whom I admire very much, especially my (maternal) grandfather, who was my sole "male role model" for my earliest formative years. He taught me both how to be strong, and how to be kind. And gave me my warped sense of humor.

Alex

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 12:48 PM

Nice post Peter. Truly, I have no idea how men and women have put up with each other for so long, it's a miracle the Human race exists. However, I think your post brings to light the things that we sometimes forget about the opposite sex.

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 12:55 PM

I too believe there is room for both. To acknowledge only the positives is as much a caricature as to acknowledge only the negatives. If they really are positives and negatives. I see them all as characteristics that can be up to good or bad use.

For several years I lived alone, and enjoyed it. When I married I did not move in with a clone of myself. Why clutter up my living space with someone that adds nothing to what I am already? We are different, each with our own talents. We share them, and use them to help and support each other.

Do I make jokes about my wife? Oh yes, and she joins in the laughter. Does she make jokes about me ? Yes and I laugh too. We laugh at the space in between too. Do we lack respect for each other? No. There is no malice. This is not conflict, it's fun, an acknowledgement of both out similarity and our diffences. I can honestly say that voices in our house are far more often raised in laughter than in anger.

I see them as caricatures, not steriotypes. Do any of us fit the mould? Of course not, we're not meant to, but there is a little bit of all of us in there somewhere.

Peter it depresses you because you see it as conflict - men vs women. It is not, it is as much an appreciation of both men and women as yours. Just a different way of saying it, that's all. Don't be depressed, join in the laughter as well as the serious acknowledgement. There is room for both. Shame it has to be said in different threads.

Brian

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: kimmers
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 01:04 PM

What a great idea for a thread!!

I adore men. The men in my life make me laugh and smile, and I love hanging out with 'the boys'.

I think that when we make generalizations about the opposite sex, we are really saying that we don't like shallowness in either gender. I want to be around people who are insightful and idealistic, of either gender.

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: R!
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 04:38 PM

Thank you, Peter. Thank you, Allan. Very well put.

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 06:39 PM

Thank you Peter T.

Carol

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:34 PM

Personally, I have always gotten along better with women than I have with men...My closest friends have always been women...I think it is because I identify with them more on a certain level...I have found that while men talk about the dumbest things like sports....or the biggest gnat they have ever seen.....women talk about more substantial things....Plus there are many things about me that I feel uncomfortable telling a guy, but would gladly tell a woman....but then that is just me....

Amergin

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: KT
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 12:15 AM

Nice thoughts, Peter. Thanks for giving us pause.....

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 11:36 PM

Both women and men are utterly extraordinary, amazingly courageous, and nothing short of godlike at times in their capabilities and accomplishments. We have a great deal to be proud of and thankful for...all of us in the human community.

I've personally never believed in a "war between the sexes", although sometimes some of the jokes in that genre can be funny...it depends...as long as they're not too mean-spirited.

Walt Whitman wrote some wonderful poetry in "Leaves Of Grass" describing the magnificent qualities of both men and women. It's good to read that now and then for inspiration, when you're feeling down about the human race.

Thanks for the thread, Peter.

- LH

Subject: RE: In praise of women/In praise of men
From: Gypsy
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 11:51 PM

Yay Peter! A positive thread. I love hearing the good attributes, for BOTH sexes. So nice to hear complimentary things.