BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)

Subject: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 01:49 PM

I fell so hard for this movie it's practically all I can think about these days, and not just because I am a chocoholic. What did you all think? I wouldn't give it the Oscar, but what a splendid, wonderful "moodie" it was. Really highlighted a lot of what I don't like about organized religion, too... great FACE acting, no action acting. Tops editing. I have got to try hot chocolate with chili pepper in it some day...

And I liked the music, too! (I add that in for the purists...)

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 02:01 PM

This film is an all-time classic; it should be seen, discussed, and analyzed by every high-school student as a prerequisite to ebtering the lists of the living.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 05:39 PM

Coming soon to a theater near me! I can't wait- saw the previews when I saw Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon- I needto see this movie!

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 06:11 PM

Amos, I couldn't say it better myself. Animaterra, let me know how you like it!

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Susan from California
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 12:22 PM

I also loved this one, and I would give it an Oscar over "The Gladiator" which I found boring and sorely lacking in character development. I prefered "Chocolat" to "Traffic" which, although very well acted, gave me a headache with all of the cinema verite shots. I haven't seen "Crouching Tiger..." yet, but Keith said he prefered "Chocolat".

The thing that I liked most about "Chocolat" was that it had inherent goodness. It lacked cynicism that is so common in today's world. The characters were beautifully drawn, flaws and all. The film was shot well, scenes were taut. Definately one of my must see's.

I was a little bothered that the film was in English. I was expecting subtitles, and the printed words--a newspaper, a note, the title of the movie--were in French so I felt that the film should have been too. But that's not much of a problem, more a minor annoyance. If you haven't seen this one yet, do not wait for the video. It deserves to be seen on a BIG screen.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 12:27 PM

We have tickets for Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon on Monday 26th Feb, Chocolat 2 weeks after that. Our local Movie place shows the good movies only on Monday nights, unfortunately the same night as my spouses Sectional practise for Choir (I don't bother). So we have already missed Maelstrom and The Waterford Girl, anyone know what they were like ? JohnB

Subject: Chocolat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 12:36 PM

"Gladiator"?? Lacking in character development?!?!? Bite yer tongue!! LOL!!!

I have one beef against "Chocolat" without having seen it... I do hate to see american actors cast to do accents where there are plenty of 'foreign' actors who are just as good if not better for the roles... I find it hard to believe that Johnny Schlep was THE BEST actor they could find, with that affected accent...

To me it smacks of casting people and then asking them to dye their hair...

"Chocolat" will be on my rental list as soon as it's available... but I'd still give "Gladiator" the win in all 12 of it's Oscar nominations...

"Oh Brother Where Art Thou"... now THAT one I'll shell out to see in the theatre!!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Susan from California
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 12:44 PM

"oh Brother..." hasn't been to our town, I definately prefer to see Mr. Clooney on a large screen :-)

As for charactor dev in "Gladiator", it seems to me that the weapons and blood and guts were the main charactors. I have to admit that action adventure is not my favorite genre, and when it comes to action adventure I probably like more emphais on the adventure, and less on the action. But then I think "Road Warrior" is one of the 20th centuries best, so who knows how my mind works :-)

And I agree with you re the accent stuff.

Subject: Thread drift eh! ;-)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 12:57 PM

Mmmm... Road Warrior... damn good piece of film that...

Sorry for the drift... as you were eh!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 02:39 PM

Went to see "Chocolat" with a friend last week--unfortunately when we got there it was sold out. And was no longer playing in the next town. But I've got the book and am trying to fit it into my reading schedule. Maybe it will work out better that I see it after reading the book.

Bat Goddess

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 07:52 PM

I think I shall have to read the book. About accents and it not being in French, I expected it to be in French too, but I have to admit it faked French very well. I don't mean the accents, which weren't French unless the actors were, but the tone, the aura, the ambiance, if you will, was very French. Best fake-international movie in a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 07:58 PM

I thought it captured the character of a small French village very well. But more important it captured humanness very well, with rich subtleties and beautiful portrayals of weakness and strength.

Crouching Tiger is another kind of film altogether, but equally powerful and beautiful in its own right. Interesting that both movies come to the end with a treatment of a common theme in human affairs -- departure. Buthow differently!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:00 PM

I wish I could remember what Mom's been calling Tiger Dragon, something like Weeping Woman Leaping Lizard, or something. But then again she also called another movie Fucking with Foxes, no points for guessing what...

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Greyeyes
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:02 PM

Some of the location shooting for "Chocolat" was carried out around my home village of Tisbury in Wiltshire. Fonthill Lake, to be precise, so I shall await its UK release eagerly. It was the talk of the Boot Inn, when Judi Dench came to town.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Hotspur
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 11:49 PM

I thought it was fantastic. Juliette Binoche is such a great actress. I'm in the middle of the book, which is considerably different, but not necessarily any better or worse, at least so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:06 AM

A young couple was outside selling hot chocolate after the movie, made with the chilli pepper...really good.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: MarkS
Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:18 AM

Any movie with Juliette Binoche (that thumping sound is my heart racing at the sight of her) and Judi Dench, a TOWERING talent, has got to be a classic.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Feb 01 - 09:15 PM

A friend of mine has just been telling me about this: one reason why it wasn't in French is that the book on which it was based was written in English by somebody who lives in Barnsley, which is in Yorkshire, England.  Yorkshire, as you probably know, is the best-represented region of the UK on the Mudcat, and is best candidate for a regional parliament when England federalises (probably not in my lifetime, but we can hope).  Apparantly, the author based the Juliette Binoche character on... Juliette Binoche.

The best chocolate in the UK, incidentally, is made just over the border in Derbyshire:  Thorntons

Malcolm

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Feb 01 - 05:23 AM

Ah, Juliette Binoche.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: GUEST,jayohjo in Russia
Date: 26 Feb 01 - 07:23 AM

Wow! I haven't even heard anything about a film of this - I adored the book, one of the most beautiful things I've read recently, and therefore am a little wary of films of books that I love - usually they get screwed with somehow. However, you lot usually seem pretty trustworthy, so will keep an eye out for it; though does anyone know whether there will be a video by August, or if anywhere will still be showing it? As won't be in an English speaking country before then, and it's not the kind of mainstream that tends to get translated into Russian as I'm in quite a small town....probably different if I was still in Moscow! Jay XXX

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 27 Feb 01 - 05:28 AM

Haven't seen the film - yet - but ... Read The Book! Loved the Book! Book - Good! *That's* what should be on high school reading curricula!

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Peg
Date: 27 Feb 01 - 11:40 AM

i do need to see this! the film critic community is grumbling that studio hype produced that best film nomination (voters were sent boxes of chocolates along with their screening tapes, ads have saturated magazines and newspapers etc.) but Lasse Hallstrom is a favorite filmmaker of mine, and I love Judi Dench, Johnny Depp and Juliet Binoche (though I feel she has been somewhat miscast in some of her more recent films). The whole pagan/aphrodisiac plot line sounds right up my alley.

The whole "fake foreign film" trend has been going on for some time. Braveheart, Schindler's List, etc. Bottom line: American audiences love films set in other countries; they don't like to read subtitles. Stupid but true. They can barely handle dialect films. I even saw a film in English set in Glasgow that had subtitles! If a film is financed by Hollywood studios, then those producers are marketing to the American audience. And they are also obligated to hire actors within their own employment/union system.

Choosing Johnny Depp over a French actor is no stranger than choosing an American actor to play a "foreign" character in the same sort of film, if you think about it. As long as the actor can handle the accent (something the casting director and dialect coaches have a part in) I see no problem with it. Mr. Depp is a fine actor and has handled some tricky accents in the past. Many American and English actors are wonderful at foreign accents (Meryl Streep, Bob Hoskins, Ian Holm, Benicio del Toro); some of them are awful. Some "foreign" actors are terrible at American accents (Arnold Schwarzenegger; then again I don't consider him an actor).

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Feb 01 - 11:47 AM

Depp has a brogue in the movie...

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Feb 01 - 12:44 PM

"Arnold Schwarzenegger; then again I don't consider him an actor"

Shows what you know!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 27 Feb 01 - 02:48 PM

loved Chocolat the movie and I did feel Depp was thrown in for the American audience but his performance was effective. (but Juliette Binoche makes the film) I think they used a French Town with an English countryside backdrop.

I also saw Snatch with Brad Pitt and he does an interesting Tinker accent (we had set out to see the film Craic but that was cancelled)

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Peg
Date: 28 Feb 01 - 09:30 AM

Clinton; feel free to convince me Schwarzenegger is an actor (and not a movie star molded by studios who capitalized on his fame as Mr. Universe). He is no more an actor than John Wayne was.

Subject: Non-Music: Arnie (the movie)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Feb 01 - 10:49 AM

Well, he may have started being molded by the studios, I'll grant you that, but he's an incredibly intelligent man... and the roles he's played in the past few years have been wonderful... of course, they are still action roles in big shoot-'em-ups or goofy roles in kids comedys, but that takes skill too....

Talk about thread drift eh?!?!

LOL!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 28 Feb 01 - 11:05 AM

Gladiator kicked ass!

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 28 Feb 01 - 12:52 PM

Got to see Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon on Monday, thought it was quite good. I did have a problem with the flying bits though, that was until I spoke with a friend at work who is Chinese. He explained that the flying is part of a Chinese Martial Arts Myth, that they beleieved a Great Master could achieve these feats. I wanted to watch it again anyhow, it's a bit difficult to read all of the subtitles and watch all the cinemaphotgraphy at the same sitting. Well it is for me. Yeah the last comment is rhetorical. Chocolat comes around in two weeks. JohnB.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 10:23 AM

I saw Chocolat a few weeks ago (not having read this thread), and came out of the theater saying that that had to be the worst movie I had ever seen! Since so many of you seemed to like it...I'm wondering, did I miss something? I was repulsed by it, felt it was shallow, transparent and contrived. Is it just me? Course I can't think of a single movie I like, even though I really enjoy live performances of all kinds (even a second rate stand-up comedian), amateur theater, books, and some TV. I don't have a problem with fiction or fantasy ( I adore opera.) I don't think I have a problem with the screen (I like mini series on TV). Am I missing something in the acting, the story-line, the scenery? Am I expecting something other than what is there?

And I had to leave the room during Gladiator, even the background music upset me. (I tried to just listen to the movie.) I refused to see Hannibal. I did enjoy one movie,"The Last of the Mohicans", mainly because of the background music and scenery. I've never seen the end of Braveheart, and saw much of Saving Private Ryan from reflections on the wall. Just wondering...

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Greyeyes
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 05:36 PM

"I can't think of a single movie I like".

No disrespect, but this does cast doubt on the value of your critical appraisal of this film.

Personally I have a problem with opera and ballet. They do nothing for me. But if there were a thread on the Mudcat extolling the virtues of an opera or a ballet, I just wouldn't post, as frankly, my opinion, which would undoubtedly be negative, would be of no value or interest to anyone.

As I say, no disrespect, but if you've "never liked a film", what is the point of telling us that you didn't like this one?

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 06:10 PM

Arnold S. is a great actor. He played the "faithful husband" role for years and no one guessed he was acting.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 07:56 PM

Gervase, you REALLY need to get out more....

Book fantastic, may have prejudiced me against the film, though if I get taken to see it, maybe I'll rethink....

As for Oh Brother, can't wait. The sound track is fantastic, and I wish I could get a copy. Mr Clooney is pleasant enough to look at, but nothing to get sweaty over.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 09:47 PM

Well, Mrrzz, I finally got to see Chocolat! Just got home about 1/2 an hour ago, in fact- it was lush and lovely and what I like to call "redemptive", ie, the crummy people get transformed and everyone ends in a happy moment. Johnny Depp did nothing for me, but didn't do any harm, either. Judi Dench is one of the greatest actresses of the present moment. Juliet Binoche was just wonderful- but so were the supporting actors. So many wonderful faces! It really was about the faces, and how they were transformed. The little girl was very good too.
My sister had called today to say I must go and must bring my 12 year old daughter. I hadn't intended to, but I'm really glad I did.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Gervase
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 08:47 AM

Liz, I did get out.
I went to see Chocolat.
And, guess what, it was gorgeous. Juliette B was as radiant and magical as ever (but I'm biased, I'll concede), but it was a wonderful ensemble performance by everyone - save maybe for Johnny Depp's brogue, which was more iffy rather than Liffey.
In its redemptive nature it reminded me a lot of Babette's Feast, which remains one of my favourite films, sentimental old sod that I am - I'm a shameless weeper in the cinema and can usually be recognised as the lumbering bloke blowing his nose loudly on the way out and furiously polishing his glasses on his handkerchief).
It's not great art, it's not deep, but it's lush, light and lovely. (and with a rather good Django track to boot).
Go see!

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 04:50 PM

I'm with Mary in Kentucky (I wish).

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 05:50 PM

Thanks Peter, coming from someone like you that knows and understands about theater...but my original question...what is it that some people just love about the movie? I'm honestly admitting here that "I just don't get it," and I'm curious to know what it is that I don't get. (I suspect it has something to do with the length of the movie...I hope it's not the music or scenery or actors/actresses.) So far we have, great face acting, tops editing, inherent goodness, characters beautifully drawn, film shot well, scenes taut, French aura and ambience, lush and lovely. According to Amos, "it captured humanness very well, with rich subtleties and beautiful portrayals of weakness and strength." (I think this is the part I totally missed, or felt was just too contrived.)

I wish jayohjo could see it. I too am usually wary of films of books I've read.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 04:39 AM

I agree that Chocolat is filmed in much the way that Babette's feast was. The latter being a wonderful brilliant film. It was a pity that Chocolat wasn't in French. What caught my eye most was in the credits the number of helpers Johnny Depp had . I wonder if he needs a hand holder ? I'd make him hot chocolate while he mended my door any time !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: GUEST,Greyeyes
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 07:24 AM

On a movie review show last night someone described Chocolat as "this years English Patient, only not very good". I had the same problem with the English Patient that Mary seems to have with Chocolat. The acting was top class, the cinematography stunning, the editing outstanding, I just didn't enjoy it. I think ultimately I didn't give a toss about any of the main characters, whose fate the film was largely about.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 10:47 AM

My sisters called yesterday to tell me I must see this movie. I never did go to the English Patient because it looked sappy and just uninteresting to me. We went to Crouching Tiger last week and loved it. The only bad part were the rubes behind us who snickered at the flying and bitched about the subtitles. The Ugly Americans are a live and well in Wyoming.

BTW, Peg, first time i saw Arnold act was in a made for tv movie about Jane Mansfield, in which he played a character much like himself. I thought he did a great job and I've learned to have a great deal of respect for him as a person. Generally I've enjoyed the movies he's done recently; I am thinking esp. of the one he did with Robin Williams, in which Arnold became pregnant.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:49 AM

Mary in Kentucky, I know what you MEAN, even though I loved the movie. My cinephile friend, hearing me extol(l?) this one, decided that just from hearing me describe what I'd liked, KNEW he'd hate the movie. He agrees with you, that it would be manipulative and so on. Which it was - I just didn't mind being manipulated into feeling good, I guess, but I can totally see how you'd not like being manipulated.

And woe betide anyone who disses the Late Great John Wayne. He tried to act, really he did - remember El Dorado, which is basically the same movie as Rio Bravo? Sidekick named for a state and everything... well, John Wayne wanted to play the drunk this time, and the director basically said No, sorry, you're playing John Wayne... True story!

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:03 PM

Mrrzy, you may have hit on it there! Manipulation is a recurring theme in things that I hate. I often describe people I don't like as manipulative, and I often recoil from anything I think may in some way try to manipulate me even if I can't verbalize my feelings. Thanks for the insight.

And kat, I think the origianl "Ugly American" was a very nice man who just happened to be physically ugly. (stretching my memory here.)

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Grab
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM

Mary, it's manipulative in that it's trying to make you feel a certain way about what's happening. Isn't that the point of it? If it _does_ make you feel that way (and if you dislike it so much, maybe it did, just a bit?) then it's succeeded. What works takes a really light touch - bloody Barbara Cartland and the rest of the trash novel writers lay it on with a trowel, and the whole thing sinks under a flood of melodramatic crap. Chocolat did drop a few times - it could have done with a little editting - but generally it was OK.

And it's not really a "serious" film. Just the intro tells you that the style is going to be more of a fairy-tale than a real-life gritty scene. If you can suspend disbelief and accept it as a fairy-tale (and a damn good one) then it works. If you say, "That'd never happen in real life", then it falls down.

Yes, Gervase, the Django track is seriously hot - and actually played by Johnny Depp too, according to the credits! His slide guitar seems to need some practise though...

Grab.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:44 PM

Peg:

Some Scottish movies _need_ sub-titles. Singers like Jean Redpath are kind enough to do translations for people before singing some of the traditional songs, IIRC, the one that had subtitles was "Ratcatcher".

Mary from Kentucky:

If you're having difficulty with those movies, maybe "Requiem For A Dream" is more along your lines. ;-)

Ellen Burstyn in excellent in that movie, and was a fitting candidate for "Best Actress".

Cheers,

-- Arne Langsetmo

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: Peg
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 07:22 PM

Anne:

I saw Ratcatcher and there were no subtitles.

Kat: I guess I understand why people like Arnold; I guess his political views affect my "appreciation" of his on-screen "talent." I did enjoy Pumping Iron, however!

Still have not seen Chocolat but I do want to; I have a feeling it will be a guilty pleasure.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Music: Chocolat (the movie)
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:28 AM

Peg:

My bad then. I thought it was that one. I didn't see the movie (it was playing in NYC, and I don't get down there often enough), but read a review (and I thought it was that one; dunno which other one it would have been) that claimed there were subtitiles for the more esoteric Scots. . . . Maybe the New Yawkers needed extra help so they did a special cut for them. ;-)

Do go see "Chocolat". And nevermind the AMPAS stiffed 'em; Juliette Binoche is great (as is Judi Dench).

Cheers,

-- Arne Langsetmo