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BS: Are you superstitious?
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Subject: Are you superstitious? From: Hawker Date: 24 Feb 01 - 05:03 PM When I was preparing tea this evening, my mind wandered (as it often does these days) to a time whe I was a child........ The wishbone on a chicken was a Sunday ritual - me and my sister, one either side, little finger of left hand clasped round the tiny bone and pulled 'till it snapped - whilst making a wish.(I must at this point ensure that you are all aware that this is a cooked chicken, not a live one, though now I personally prefer to abstain!) The one who gets the bit with the top piece intact supposedly got their wish to come true! I don't recall that ever being the case! I started to wonder......and remembered when pregnant, I was painting the new nursery, up a ladder, reaching to the ceiling, my grandmother-in-law went berserk and told me to get down off the ladder 'cos reaching up like that could put the cord round the baby's neck! What old wives tales / superstitions do you know, follow or believe? I don't walk under ladders, but I cannot tell you why! Is there any truth in them or are they just a load of mumbo jumbo created so that our elders can seem wiser than us!!!!!! Must go, there is a black cat about to cross my path! Lucy
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Hollowfox Date: 24 Feb 01 - 05:23 PM It's bad luck to be superstitious *g*. I've always found Friday the 13th to be a pretty good day for me, perhaps because so many people are being a bit more careful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: GUEST,Sarah2 ... at work Date: 24 Feb 01 - 05:25 PM It's bad luck to move a broom. The broom belongs to the house, not the family. Don't know why, but I've always bought a new broom when I've moved. Sarah2 (2-/12 hours and I can GO HOME!!!!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: katlaughing Date: 24 Feb 01 - 05:27 PM I've always made it a point to have a black cat and to love Friday the 13th, because it is always a good day for me, and breaking the mirror did not bring me 7 years bad luck, etc...personally, I think they are only as powerful as our belief in them...:-) kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Hawker Date: 24 Feb 01 - 05:29 PM Hear Hear! I also have 2 black cats and my daughter was born on February 13th, my husband passed both his car driving test and his motorcycle driving test on Fridays 13th.... Seems to be lucky for us too! Lucy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Feb 01 - 05:50 PM Yes..........But don't ask about the whats and whys.............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: hesperis Date: 24 Feb 01 - 07:18 PM Well, walking under a ladder could be a very unsafe thing to do, if someone drops or spills stuff on your head. Paint, hammers, buckets of soapy water... who wants that? Aside from that, no, I'm not "superstitious". I only throw salt over my left shoulder if I spill it... Although I'm sure there are more that I do without even thinking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 01 - 07:22 PM I am not superstitious...though a few are based on reality..(walking under a ladder CAN be dangerous!)...but I clearly remember the times as a child when someone told me 'X' was bad luck..(stepping on a crack..etc.)...even then I wondered WHY it was supposed to be like that, and quickly developed a sceptical attitude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Greyeyes Date: 24 Feb 01 - 07:45 PM I don't BELIEVE any superstition, but using the same principle as Pascall's Wager, I don't walk under ladders, I avoid black cats, I whistle when I see a magpie, I'm particularly careful on Friday 13th, I avoid the number 13 generally, I NEVER step on the cracks in pavements (sidewalks) when in London (tho' fortunately I don't go there that much any more, and outside London of course it doesn't apply), I always throw salt when I spill it, I never put the sugar in before the milk when I'm making tea, and most importantly, I always make sure I'm out of the bathroom before the flush stops. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 01 - 07:55 PM Wow -- what a complicated life, Greyeyes! How do you keep track of all those steps? The only superstition I use regularly is that it is bad luck to say frankly what you think. But I learned that from experience!!!:>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:07 PM Pascal's wager had 4 parts...
1- you believe, it's true...you win so, it seems like it is safer not to take chances the problem is, Pascal didn't list all of the possibilities, IF a belief is true, (Pascal was mainly interested in the existence of God), there can be many other possible things which can follow...in the case of God, he can have a weird sense of humor, or the other humans may not have spelled out the rules clearly...etc... gotta be careful in these betting games where some parts of the odds are not clear...*grin* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Greyeyes Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:09 PM I'm sure I've never said "frankly what you think", another superstition I don't believe in, but always adhere to. Life can never be too complicated if you want to be safe, even if you don't believe in it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:11 PM There's another risk Pascal didn't take into account: you let your God-given ability to see and understand the universe take second chair to mob thinkery -- especially on bizarre constructs like black cats and such -- and you sell your own soul down the river out of fear of mass opinion. Very unwise way to chart your course, IMHO. How about "You look for yourself and figure it out and act accordingly..." and the devil take the consequences? That's the path to survival on the Wilderness Trail. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Greyeyes Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:17 PM But Bill, if it MIGHT be unlucky to walk under a ladder, a gambling man would avoid walking under it, as there is, presumably, no potential benefit to be gained from walking under it, but much to lose. Unless you're suggesting that there may be possible repurcussions from NOT walking under it that we haven't been told about. Whatever, I'd still rather not take the risk, even though I don't believe any of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Greyeyes Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:19 PM And what soul would that be Amos? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 01 - 08:47 PM Well, Greyeyes, I guess I stepped on your toes without really meaning to. Apologies. It is my opinion that one has a certain amount of spiritual strength, if you will, and that one of the ways it gets degraded and corroded is by not tending to one's own integrity, by taking on board opinions and beliefs not one's own out of fear, or a desire to be agreeable or likeable, or some other complicated reason. The "risk" of crossing a cat of any color is no greater than that of crossing the trail, say, of a dog of the same color. To my mind, avoiding risks that you really do not believe are there is a compromise with your own self-maintained, self-assured and self-generated rationality. It hinges on saying that you can't really know for yourself, and you have to watch out because others have told you that something is there for which you have no evidence, perception, experience, or measure other than that description. This places your power of reasoning in thehands of those who would perpetuate superstitions. A problematic source for reliable information, indeed. Trust yourself more than that! Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Katcina Date: 24 Feb 01 - 09:44 PM Nope, not at all. Knock on wood. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 01 - 10:11 PM the end of a ladder 'might' set in a puddle of water, with no easy way around it, while the route UNDER the ladder might be dry and clear... your gambler might get his shoes wet and climb awkwardly in order to adhere to his superstition. As long as there seems to be no danger from falling paint buckets, etc...I would NOT get my shoes wet...(I guess that is sort of what Amos meant by "You look for yourself and figure it out and act accordingly..." ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Rick Fielding Date: 24 Feb 01 - 10:59 PM Well can't think of any superstitions that concern me, but having done some acting (well they needed a musician who could speak some lines without bumping into the scenery) I sure came up against a lot. Watched someone say "MacBeth" (instead of "The Scottish Play") in a dressing room and get really dirty looks from the others. He had to go out and go through a ritual before they'd let him back. I thought it was ridiculous, but funny. Once I sat in another actor's chair at the make-up table, and got told off big time. I'd better be careful. Heather's just taken two Fang Show (how the Hell IS that spelled?) classes, and might be wanting to re-arrange the furniture so that the gods will be pleased. I'm NOT making jokes around her at the moment! Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 01 - 11:03 PM Rick: Fang show is what angry huskies do to acheive dominance. I think you mean Feng Shi -- the ancient Chinese science of spaces and their arrangement to maximize life energy. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 01 - 11:10 PM Feng SHUI!!! SHUI!!! Whatsamaddah me?!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Gypsy Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:03 AM Ooohhh...with the 3 bark-n-woof, like FANG-SHOW. That's too good. oh yeah, haven't had the wedding ring off in over 20 years. Still married too. I might add, the elephant repellant is still working like a champ, as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Hotspur Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:19 AM I don't mind black cats crossing my path, but I ALWAYS throw salt over my shoulder when I spill it...and cross my fingers when I pass a graveyard...and never put shoes on a piece of furniture. And of course, the horseshoe hangs like a U. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: SINSULL Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:30 AM Nana Sullivan had a fit if we put shoes on the table or opened an umbrella in the house. It makes me nervous but I do both. Still throw salt over my shoulder. No superstition about black cats or the number 13. Funny, but I have a crystal ball and noone is allowed to touch it. Molten glass is absolutely pure. This was never touched by human hands before I got it. Something about it being mine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: sledge Date: 25 Feb 01 - 02:14 AM Hope never to be so, touch wood. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Jon Freeman Date: 25 Feb 01 - 02:29 AM The black cat superstion is one you have to be careful with. Although I believe Hawker is from the UK, I think that you will find that a common UK superstition is that a black cat crossing your path causes GOOD luck not bad luck. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 01 - 02:49 AM Well there you go. Codwallop left of me, codwallop right!. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Hawker Date: 25 Feb 01 - 03:43 AM Wonderful Amos! Thanks all for your comments, I forgot the salt, umbrellas and new shoes on the table one, the cracks in the pavement and the horseshoe! Incidentally, I once bought a new pair of shoes and put them (still in the box) on the sofa (as I couldn't put them on the table could I?) whilst a made a pot of tea. My then new puppy, being a little Booger of a dog, before I returned form the kitchen, managed to make one of them into a Peek toe style. Now if I had put them on the table I suspect that my lcuk would have been better - the puppy (Hannah - now over the Rainbow Bridge, God bless her) couldn't reach up there! On the other hand, my mum caught her toe in a crack in the pavement, fell dislocated her shoulder and broke her arm in 2 places! Was that BAD LUCK or what! I laughed at the one about being out of the bathroom before the flush finishes, but I remember as a child, after a bath, I used to deperately rush to get out of the bathroom before all the bathwtater emptied out of the bath and it made that slurrrp noise but I think that was because I was afraid of the monster in the pipe that sucked the bathwater away!!! What a strange lot we humans are I wonder if animals are as silly as us! Better go, got to look for a fourleaf clover! Good luck always! Lucy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Greyeyes Date: 25 Feb 01 - 08:04 AM Amos, no need to apologise, but I found your post amusing from a number of angles: "God given ability", "bizarre constructs like black cats", "mob thinkery". I don't consider my abilities God given, I don't find the concept of black cats being unlucky any more bizarre than the concept of our universe being governed by a benign deity, and mob thinkery is exactly how many atheists would describe organised religion (although I am not one of them). However I'm not trying to spark a debate on those issues, this is not the thread, and you certainly haven't stepped on my toes. In fact my posts last night were mainly flippant; it was late, I'd had too much red wine, I was mostly talking rubbish. I do adhere to some superstitious rituals however, without believing them. Most particularly, if you stop a glass from ringing when it's knocked, you save a sailor from drowning. I can't hear a ringing glass without seeing images of drowning sailors in my mind's eye, and I HAVE to stop it. Perhaps you're right and it is a lack of spiritual strength. I can live with that. More particularly there may be an element here of keeping old superstitions alive as a living part of our cultural and folk heritage, or maybe that's just me being pretentious, it wouldn't be the first time. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Pinetop Slim Date: 25 Feb 01 - 09:38 AM My mother believed in most of the superstitions given above, along with one that dictated you never make a gift of a sharp object. "Pay me a penny," she'd say if there were scissors, a knife, nailfile or the like in the package. I didn't inherit any of those superstitions, but I never pick a penny up off the sidewalk if it's showing tails. |
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Subject: Superstitious? Me? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 25 Feb 01 - 09:46 AM I never pick up a penny on the ground... I always figure there's someone needs it more than I do... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: guest(intruder-inactive) Date: 25 Feb 01 - 10:07 AM ::chuckling in the corner:: rowan tree, red thread, hold the witches all in dread |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Bill D Date: 25 Feb 01 - 10:40 AM *shaking my head in wonder*....Amos, that was wonderful...Those are a few of MY favorite things, too!... You know, despite my scepticism, I can see how some superstitions could arise..ladders are easy, and black cats could be easy to connect with events, since it is common for people to mistake contiguity in time & space for causality ....... but SOME superstitions!.. well, I wonder who the first person was to connect ringing glasses to drowning sailors, and what his reasoning was. And whose mother suffered a broken back and how did her kid get the idea that stepping on a crack had done it?
And, you know, in the USA, an old superstition is a major cause of fiscal insanity! Yep...partly because lots of people are still superstitious about $2 bills, we are unable to get RID of the $1 bill and substitute a $1 coin. It would save many millions a year to use the coin. The coin would fill the void of the seldom used 50¢ piece, and with a $2 bill, no one would need to carry more than 1 dollar coin at a time, but $2 bills are **bad luck**, so..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Jon Freeman Date: 25 Feb 01 - 10:45 AM Bill, why bother with a $2 bill? We seem to cope OK with £1 and £2 coins. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 01 - 11:59 AM Grayeyes: I use God-given in a generic sense, paradoxical as that sounds. I have no truck with white paternalistic deities who sit on clouds governing all creation while ferociously adjudicating the sexual peccadilloes of small children. I do feel that obsessive adherence to strict materialism is as bad an idea as obsessive pursuit of rampant spiritualism; I believe there is plenty of evidence for both forces, while very little evidence for phlogiston or Yaweh. Glad you enjoyed the wine! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: SINSULL Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:29 PM Never give a gift of a wallet or a purse without a coin in it. Always give a coin with a sharp edged gift (had forgotten that one), and a bride to be never uses scissors or a knife to cut the ribbons on her gifts - very bad luck. Nana had another one: No three-colored cats in the house. I later found out that people believed that all three colored cats were female and apt to reproduce. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Greyeyes Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:30 PM I did think you were using "God given" as a figure of speech, it just sounded funny in a superstition thread.
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Bill D Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:49 PM "surely no one believes in it, or was that your point. " make no mistake...there is someone who believes in it. Flat earth, elves, Oahspe, Urantia, Atlantis, Gnurrs in the Voodvork, alien ships behind comets...take your choice...even phlogiston..not 'many' perhaps, but we have 5+ billion people to look at....some will believe that their computers are haunted by the ghost of Aunt Martha |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Giac Date: 25 Feb 01 - 01:01 PM Funny how some of the beliefs are opposite in some regions. Where I grew up, it was the small part of the wishbone (or pulley bone, as we called it) that was the lucky piece. And, horseshoes were hung the other way, so the luck would spill out over those who passed through the door. My mother actually did break her back and for years I held the silent dread that I had caused it by walking on all those cracks. A horse with one white foot or leg is fast and sound, but one with four white legs is slow and stubborn. When moving a cat to a different house, take it out through the window of the old house and in through a window at the new house, to keep it from trying to return to the first house.
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Katcina Date: 25 Feb 01 - 01:08 PM Aha So it's been Aunt Martha all this time and not those nasty grimlins causing all the problems with this thing. It's nice to know where to place the blame. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: R! Date: 25 Feb 01 - 04:12 PM I've pulled wishbones and stepped over sidewalk cracks as a child. I've heard about black cats, broken mirrors, and salt over the shoulder. I avoid walking under ladders for safety reasons. Greyeyes, I do not understand why the hasty dash before the toilet stops flushing. Do you wash your hands before you pull the flush chain? I mean no disrespect; I'm puzzled. Ta ra, Reen (who is slightly phobic about germs) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Ebbie Date: 25 Feb 01 - 04:15 PM Good gracious! How in the world would a superstitious person keep up with all the existing caveats? They couldn't possibly know them all. So far as I'm aware, about my only concession to superstitious belief is that when I see a black cat cross in front of me, I think, Ah! I'm going to have a good day! (That is done to negate any subliminal belief that I might have!) And I like to pick up a coin on the street and give it to the next person as a token of good luck and tell the person that if s/he gives it away further that we will all have good luck. Kind of made that one up, myself. (I just like the smiles that go with it.) Some superstitions have definite roots in reality. For instance, a ladder may fall on you. A crack in the sidewalk may trip you. A horse with four white hooves may have problems with laming- they say a white hoof is softer than a black one. A tri-colored cat is generally female, and therefore can bring you unwanted kittens. But some superstitions amaze me. For instance, the 'leaving the bathroom before the flush is finished'. That has to be a recent superstition- historically, we haven't had flush toilets all that long. Why would anyone begin such a belief and who would pass it on? Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Greyeyes Date: 25 Feb 01 - 04:42 PM Ebbie, you must have missed my post above where I said "my posts last night were mainly flippant; it was late, I'd had too much red wine, I was mostly talking rubbish." In fact I stole the idea of a superstition about the length of a lavatory flush from a Peter Cook and Dudley Moore sketch from their 1960s "Not Only......But Also" series. Dud claims you have to get downstairs before the flush stops, or something terrible will happen. Pete points out, as you have, that the flush toilet is a modern invention so it can't be true. He goes upstairs and flushes the loo to prove it, to Dud's dismay. Pete then wails loudly, claims something terrible has happened, and that he will forthwith haunt Dud on the 'lav'. It used to be available on an LP, don't know if it is currently obtainable. Well worth listening to, although the BBC, in their infinite wisdom, destroyed most of the original recordings of this ground-breaking precursor to Python. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 01 - 04:58 PM Actuall, Greyeyes, you have inadvertantly revealed the real truth of the matter: 89.4% of wide-spread irrational superstitions when traced to their actual beginnings are found to have strated as crude practical jokes played by malevolent juveniles. I am sure this will make everyone feel much better. Now we can get on to something reasonable! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Greyeyes Date: 25 Feb 01 - 05:51 PM Crude practical joke and juvenile I can accept, malevolent is a bit harsh. But I take your point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: RichM Date: 25 Feb 01 - 06:48 PM No, I'm not superstitious: I have a black cat in the house. Impossible to avoid crossing his path! On the other hand, being descended from witches, psychics and foretellers makes for interesting life experiences, that you may or may not consider to be superstitious... Rich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 01 - 08:59 PM By definition (in my book, anyway) something that can be experienced is not a superstition; however, interpreting it the wrong way could easily be one. Rain dances on a falling glass come to mind for example. (Translation: during a period when the barometric pressure is decreasing). It would be a superstitious conclusion to decide that (a) the rain dance made the glass fall or (b) the falling glass made the rain fall. 'Course that's just me! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 26 Feb 01 - 11:06 AM 1.To answer the question: No. 2. To answer Rick: I thought Fang Show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer (not that I watch it of course! RtS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: GUEST Date: 26 Feb 01 - 09:04 PM Superstitions are: (a) fun. (b) a concession that just maybe you do believe in magic, if just an itsy bit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are you superstitious? From: Amos Date: 26 Feb 01 - 09:25 PM I submit for consideration that the best kind of magic to believe in is the self-generated sort. And I wouldn't give two bits for any magic that relied on black cats to go 'round causing others harm, or need jujuu spells to ward off evil. Maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer to think that right viewing, right feeling and right knowing can produce all the Gardol one could ever need against that kind of stuff!!! What Kind of magic do you want to agree with, after all? What you wish for is what you'll get, and I'd like to believe I have better things to do than tossing salt, ducking cats, and perambulating other people's ladders just to "stay safe". Hey, why not invent a whole series of white superstitions and run them on yourself? Say, "if I hop three times stepping out of the shower, my success will be assured for a week!". Much more fun -- make up as many as you want. I mean, if you're going to have your strings pulled by silly concepts, you may as well buy a brand you like!!! A |
