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Welcome New Mudcatter Pol Pot !
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: Stonewall Date: 19 Mar 01 - 10:07 AM Waaaah. Stick a pacifier in it. You've had your chance with eight years of Clinton/Gore. Give it up. Let's talk music. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: GUEST, Tito Date: 18 Mar 01 - 06:20 PM Go, Carol, you are doing a great job with the boycott. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: katlaughing Date: 16 Mar 01 - 11:50 AM Continued HERE for those who wish to see the ill-named threads die down. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: GUEST Date: 16 Mar 01 - 11:46 AM CONTINUED HERE
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 16 Mar 01 - 11:43 AM That's fair, Susan. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: wysiwyg Date: 16 Mar 01 - 11:27 AM Could I please ask that if this MUST go to a second part, this thread, that it not be titled with the name of Pol Pot in it? I think it is clear that whether we agee that it SHOULD cause anyone pain, it IS causing some pain to see that name sent again and again to the top of the thread list. So I would ask that we not perpetuate that, at least. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: GUEST,The Yank Date: 16 Mar 01 - 11:21 AM He's never done one bad thing to anyone I know.... I know many individual conservatives in this town who did vote for them and who are perfectly fine people in a general sense... I'm really amazed you see no contradiction. If he supports the sort of policies or political parties or groups that have brought about the type of things I listed, he's certainly at the very least contributed to doing a great number of "bad things" to a huge number of people you DON'T know. How are they "perfectly fine people"in a SPECIFIC sense, if they can perpetrate these sorts of things on others, or consider it appropriate for "others" to perpetrate them? In light of Edmund Burke's (attributed) sentiment The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing You may want to re-think 'what difference it makes'. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 16 Mar 01 - 11:20 AM Um, Little Hawk, I think the point was not that Mav is a murderous dictator. I think the point is rather that through his actions he has made himself unwelcome to many people here, and putting out a cheerful "welcome!" thread is kind of bizarre, in sort of the same way it would be bizarre to put out a cheerful "welcome!" thread for somebody like Pol Pot. Not that Mav is like Pol Pot except in this one thing: He's not terribly welcome. That's how I read it, anyway. Alex |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: chip a Date: 16 Mar 01 - 11:11 AM Thank you Little Hawk. Smile, Chip |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: Greg F. Date: 16 Mar 01 - 07:18 AM You'd think the U.S. would learn after a while, wouldn't you, LH? Pol Pot, Pinochet, Saddam, the Contras, Manuel Noriega- the list is endless. An entitlement program for dictators, in the name of advancing freedom. Go figure. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Mar 01 - 12:09 AM The Yank - Well, sure, it makes a difference in who you want to vote for. What the heck, I agree with you about all that social policy stuff. We appear to agree about virtually everything in terms of those kind of issues. But you misunderstand me. I meant, what difference does it make if I have a friendship with this one guy in my town that is based not on politics, but on a common love of music, despite the fact that we disagree on politics. I am not aiding or abetting conservative social policy here or anywhere else by doing that. Should I refuse to associate with him because he votes differently than I do? He's never done one bad thing to anyone I know, and he's been an excellent friend. I'm not saying you should vote for right-wingers. I'm not saying you should support them when they're in office. I'm not saying you should approve of their ideas on social policy. I'm not saying you should yield passively to anyone who tramples on human rights or threatens your life or property either, if it comes to that. We presently have a neo-conservative government in Ontario, Canada that has done trememdous damage to the social fabric of this province. I detest that government. I wouldn't vote for them under any circumstances. But...I know many individual conservatives in this town who did vote for them and who are perfectly fine people in a general sense, and I'm glad to know them. You can't define the entire person by their political stance. Often their idea of politics has been passed down to them through several generations, and that's how they see it. I don't find them to be less honest, less dependable, less idealistic, or less truthful on average than the liberals in this town. About dead equal, I'd say. Equal and opposite. So fine, vote against the conservative policies. I do. Just don't demonize conservatives as individuals. It doesn't achieve anything useful to do so. Oppose the policy, don't denigrate the individual, when that individual has done nothing more than to express an opinion about something that happens to differ from yours. The Pol Pot member name thing was in exceedingly bad taste, but you can't stop people from exercising bad taste when you live in a society that allows free speech. You can only try to set a good example yourself. Please do not imagine I am condoning injustice or recommending turning a blind eye to it. Not at all. As for Pol Pot, it's a pity that the USA (and China!) saw fit to fund him all those years, just to hurt Vietnam. As if Vietnam had not been hurt enough already...God knows. - LH p.s. Now someone else can pick a single phrase out of all that which pushes one of their buttons, and go ballistic, and away it all goes again...right? Try writing something that offends no one, and see if you can. Not easy, is it? |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 11:24 PM kat/katlaughing, I'm sorry, but I don't share your optimism. The fact that there is now yet another thread that has the potential to become a flame magnet tells me that things could have gotten a lot uglier than they did, and still could. How about helping me out and joining me in asking people to behave responsibly in the Mudcat from now on? Carol |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: katlaughing Date: 15 Mar 01 - 11:09 PM Carol, best thing you can do for a good night's sleep is to let it go. This has not turned into a flame war. Matt got that right, this is very mild and it will go away. I DO share Mary's concerns, though, and I would hope maybe, in her other thread, we can start a petition to maybe get the name of this thread changed. Don't know what to do, and I know Max and Joe are loath to do such things without the person who titled it asking for such, but I agree with Mary that it is really terrible to see that name as the heading of a thread at this site, esp. Of course, if we all just let it go and quit posting it will fall off and we won't have to see it anymore anyway. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 10:01 PM Aw, come on guys. You're not going to fix it here in the Mudcat. I guarantee it. If you want to fix what's wrong with society, go out into your communities and take care of what's wrong there.
It ain't going to happen here. Carol |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: GUEST,The Yank Date: 15 Mar 01 - 09:57 PM So what? What difference does it make?
Well, lets see-- off the top of my head: |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 09:43 PM The behavior you're talking about was pretty nasty, mary garvey. They were using a particularly cutting form of sarcasm to try to make a point. I think it was in pretty bad taste. Are we going to be tolerant of it? I spent most of last night and almost all of today trying to convince people that this kind of behavior is destructive and serves no useful purpose. I don't think outrage would accomplish anything, though. It just doesn't seem to work very well on the internet. To everyone in general... are you going to let me get some sleep tonight? I'd really like to because my Italian accordion is supposed to arrive back from the shop tomorrow and I would dearly love to be able to enjoy it. Carol
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 15 Mar 01 - 09:18 PM is no one else on this intercontinental group of people appalled by a post that says "welcome Pol Pot?" Would you be as tolerant about "welcome Hitler?" This is how evil spreads. I just don't understand how people can joke about this. I think we have wasted our collective outrage on who left the toilet seat up and can't attend to the truly horrible things that have gone on in our lifetimes and perhaps are gearing up for the near future. and whoever wrote something about the spirit of tolerance or whatever....there are things you should never be tolerant of. Never ever ever. mg |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Mar 01 - 08:01 PM Carol - you said of yourself: "I may be stupider than I look." Naw. The only person on Mudcat you can say that about is Spaw. Hee! Hee! :-) By the way, the anonymous twit that started this thread by paraphrasing some of my philosophical musings (and inserting into them words like "mass murderer") apparently can't tell the difference between a conservative such as MAV...and a "mass murderer, dictator, and despot" ...i.e. Pol Pot. He's either an extremely sarcastic son of a bitch with little tendency toward either forgiveness, understanding or moderation...or he's experiencing delusions of paranoia comparable to Adolf Hitler's carpet-chewing tantrums, back in '44 and '45. I have a friend in the Orillia song circle who is considerably more right-wing than MAV. He has said things that would have raised sheer bloody hell on Mudcat. I seldom agree with any of his social or political opinions. But you know what else? He is honest, trustworthy, a totally dependable friend in time of need, and a very responsible and considerate man. His conduct as a human being is excellent. I'm glad to have him as a friend, though I don't expect that we will EVER agree about politics. So what? What difference does it make? He grew up in a different family than I did, and heard different stuff when he was young, that's all. Neither MAV nor my friend in Orillia are dictators, mass murderers, despots, rapists, or child molesters, or any other such ugly notion. They are conservatives. Maybe arch-conservatives. Fine. They haven't got horns growing out of their heads. The fact that I am a leftist/liberal does not imply to me that those on the other side of the political issues of my day are subhumans. I used to think they were, however, when I was young and foolish. So give it up and grow up. You may be older than me (that's questionable...), but you sure as hell are not wiser. - LH |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 06:13 PM I know -- it was a joke, son. How not to do it? Don't press the button twice. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: nutty Date: 15 Mar 01 - 06:11 PM Not done deliberately - a technological blip - can someone tell me how to prevent it??
sometimes the lag causes it to post twice..don't worry about it...it's why we exist |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 05:50 PM What really provokes me is double posts. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: nutty Date: 15 Mar 01 - 05:47 PM I believe that if people were prevented from having multiple identities a lot of this "flaming,unpleasantness,etc" Could be prevented Mudcat as a community can have no credibility while members of Mudcat lack credibility IMO, certain Mudcat members, deliberately cause confusion by posting under various persona and use information that they have available to them to deliberately rile other members Are these "new" members really "new" or just old members who are bored and seeking to liven things up by being provoking??
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 05:20 PM Matt, I'll never doubt you again. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: Matt_R Date: 15 Mar 01 - 05:16 PM See, I tooooooooold you! |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:58 PM Thanks, Alex.
No, I don't live in Orillia. I spent about a month there recently. It's a great place. Carol |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:53 PM Okay, good; I thought I was cracking up. March it is. You live in Orillia? Sheesh, there's too many of you guys. Nice pics. Pretty babe-oid. Too bad you have to play the accordion. (grin!) Alex |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:36 PM ...and it should say 15 March. *sheesh* I'm getting tired. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:33 PM That should say 4:08 PM. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:32 PM mousethief, see my 15 April, 4:08 post to this thread. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:32 PM You never can tell with this modern poetry shit. It was good prose, too. Actually much better as prose (as is most modern poetry shit). Air I can dig. Well, not literally, but.... |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:29 PM 'Teef, did you grin? It warn't no pome neither. I just spaced it like that to give you some AIR. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:24 PM I liked the poem better, Susan. So, Carol, when do the rest of us get to see what a babe you are? (Keep in mind that Matt thought my 3-day-old niece was a "hottie") Alex |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:23 PM I don't know about all this sucking everything out of leaping hard-ons, Susan. Sounds like maybe you need to get away for a private weekend with your hubby, but it's really too much information for the Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:23 PM *Blush* again, Matt. (Thanks) |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: Matt_R Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM Might I take a moment to say what an absolute BABE Carol is? |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:17 PM Sometimes the Mudcat is like a bitch in heat. Sometimes it's like PMS. Sometimes it's a leaping hard-on. Sometimes it's like church. Or school. Or a concert. Or a boxing match. Or a TV wrestling event. It's all here in some form all the time... sometimes the balance just goes yawing over one way or another... it can be any metaphor we choose, for a little while before it shrugs that one off too. Sometimes it sucks out of us everything we have. Sometimes it pours in everything we need. Strangely, or obviously, which way we experience it can depend on our own viewpoint. I think being connected to people is going to have this effect in any setting... the thing is, do you engage or do you not. And if so, with what mindset. We seem to be able to love more outrageously and openly here in MudCyberness; why is it a surprise we can hate with more finely tuned accuracy too, or magnify fears more exponentially? And it isn't just music people learn here either. Or creativity that we hone. What I love about the cycles of Mudcat is the obvious learning that occurs among those who stick around. No one seems to be able to avoid being affected in some poitive fashion, over a period of time. I think we don't look at that often enough. I learned me how to deal with all new sortsa shit this past year. It was hard work and I have more to learn, but I'se proud of a year's effort, and am willing to be proud of others' efforts as well. I look around, you know, and I see it. I hope others do too. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM My point exactly, Alex. If you take the fun out of flaming, who's going to want to do it. All it takes is tenacity. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:12 PM ON THE OTHER HAND, the fact that we hijacked this thread and turned it into a droll argument about how to deal with flame wars might itself have a lot to do with the flames dying down at roughly the same time. Rather than get caught up in an unwinnable argument about the nature of flame wars, the flamers just went off and found something else to do. Hmmmmm. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:10 PM Carol, which post were you responding to with the "schoolmarm" comment? I'm starting to get confused here. Part of the problem is that we can't know what MIGHT have happened or what WOULD have happened, so we can't at all figure out how much causality to assign to anything that actually happens. Sure, you nagged. Did that stop the flame war, or did it simply run out of steam? In my experience, they all run out of steam eventually, and all the earlier when there's not a spiteful anonymous "guest" to keep coming back and posting trollbait. This one looked about ready for the ashcan when you jumped in, Carol. So I'm unwilling at this point to assign the "blame" for the apparent death of the flamewar to your --for lack of a better word-- nagging. Alex |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:08 PM My last was in reference to mousethief's 4:01 pm post. This is getting too weird, even for me. Alex, my pictures can be found here. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:05 PM Thanks for the concrete poetry, Susan. Very nice. One of the fun things here is when a thread designed specifically for flaming gets turned around and made into something else. For instance this thread started as a spoof of another thread, and has turned into a semi-philosophical discussion about flaming and what constitutes "running its course." Could be a lot worse. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:03 PM Well, I recall recently being accused of nagging people like a schoolmarm, Alex. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:03 PM I don't know if you look stupid, Carol, your photo's not on the photo page. Must we plead and beg? |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:02 PM What I have been trying to do when I feel baited is THIS: Take a BREATH and another GO OUTSIDE play sniff the air SING A SONG OR SIX THEN see if a thread really needs my attention And if so-- which one? One that is building something ANYTHING and THEN if I have TIME read one like this just to SEE how my friends are doing. So that when they are ready to talk to laugh to ask questions to rethink it all I'll know what they mean. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:01 PM I'd say it DID run its course. What do you think constitutes NOT running the course? I'm willing to hear what you mean. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:01 PM Alex, I may be stupider than I look. But as long as it appears to be working for me, I'm going to keep trying. It's the best I can do. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 03:57 PM I think I worded my second to last post badly. Alex, this thing that could have erupted into a flame war, and hopefully has not, was not allowed to run its course. |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: mousethief Date: 15 Mar 01 - 03:55 PM Biskit: He hs the right to his opinion, however vilely expressed, but those who disagree wtih him, don't? If they say "he's spewing bile" then they're flaming, and to hell with 'em. Except that YOU are obviously allowed to say that I was spewing bile, adn that's NOT flaming. Of course nobody thinks it's flaming when THEY do it. Just when the other guy does. Carol, do you think it was your posts that killed the flame war? Time for ego reduction surgery. Matt, can't you take a little teasing? Sheesh. I thought you were content. Alex |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: Biskit Date: 15 Mar 01 - 03:51 PM Mousethief, there is a difference between compassion and just being hateful and ugly, I have noticed lately on several threads, you have become the latter. Should we judge you for your being hateful, or try to correct you for spewing your bile of ugliness. Or commend you for your thoughtfulness on other threads, and hope that someday you'll return to your old self. I don't agree with MAV, or the majority of his far right opinions. But BY GOD I'll defend to the death his RIGHT to his opinion. PEACE,(through understanding)-Biskit- |
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Subject: RE: WELCOME NEW MUDCATTER POL POT ! From: CarolC Date: 15 Mar 01 - 03:51 PM My last was to mousethief. |
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