song history - How Can I Keep From Singing

Subject: RE: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: masato sakurai
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 05:57 AM

John Julian (A Dictionary of Hymnology, vol. 1, 2nd rev. ed., 1907; rpt. Dover, p. 699) regards Lowry as the author:

Lowry, Robert, D.D., [...] Of Dr. Lowry's hymns those which have attained the widest circulation are:--
...
5. My life flows on in endless song. Joy in God. In Bright Jewels, 1869; the Royal Diadem, 1873, and others in America and G. Britain, with music by the author.
...

Subject: RE: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: masato sakurai
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 04:48 AM

The song is also in Philip Phillips' Hallowed songs ... designed for prayer-meetings, young men's Christian associations Sunday-schools, religious meetings, family worship, praise meetings, etc. (without music; Publication date: [c1874]), where no author is given. "No. 15: My life flows on in endless song" is on p. 4.

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 12:02 AM

I have not said the song is a Quaker hymn; the lyrics (and one of the tunes) is Lowry's. The point is that if Plenn's grandmother told Doris Plenn that it was a Quaker song, and the grandmother ws Quaker, Plenn herself may have been responsible for Seeger and others believing that it was a Quaker song.

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singi
From: Burke
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 10:35 PM

I haven't seen anything I consider authoritative to indicate that Plenn's grandmother was a Quaker. Since Sandy says the whole Quaker thing was Pete's mistake, I see no reason to give creedance to that idea.

I have no idea about the quote, but the description of the Grandmother is where Quakerism is mentioned, not in the quote itself.

But why the obsession with trying to make it a Quaker hymn?

Robert Lowry is cleary responsible for the tune, along with many other popular Gospel songs. The words are 'source unknown.' Could be Lowry, or he got it from someone else. Hymnologists have not been able to find anyone else to credit.

It was republised many times in the late 19th century. Dorothy Plenn's family seems to have kept singing it even as it may not have been constantly included in later Gospel song books. Her grandmother could have believed anything about the song. That just tells you what gave it meaning for her, not where it came from.

Given the date of 1869 indicating possibly the 1860's for it's writing, I'm inclined to read it as song about the tumult of the Civil War. Life can be full of tumult, though, so how one identifies with the words can be very individual & personal.

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 09:50 PM

Burke, the link to the statement about Plenn's "Quaker grandmother" is in my post of 8:10 pm. (forgot to link in my earlier post). The quote itself is in the earlier post. Here is the link again:
How Can I Keep

I had read the Paton posts in the other thread and they do not indicate whether or not Plenn's grandmother was a Quaker, nor whether the quote attributed to her in the remarks to which I linked are genuine (the quote not mentioned in Paton's posts, she may not have seen it).

Did Pete Seeger invent the quotation?

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singi
From: Burke
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 08:47 PM

Anna Warner was very real. A brief bio is on Cyberhymnal.
The attribution of the hymn to her is what is questionable.

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 08:41 PM

I have a copy of J.R. Sweney and W.J. Kirkpatrick's Hymns of the Gospel New and Old (date & publisher unknown to me, because it lacks the title page), which includes "How Can I Keep from Singing?" (no. 259; with the Lowry tune) and says the author is "R.L."; the composer Rev. R. Lowry, D.D. In Sankey et al.'s Gospel Hymns Nos. 1 to 6 Complete (1895, p. 250 [no. 244]; with the Sankey tune), the author is "anon."

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singi
From: Burke
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 08:29 PM

Q, Please read the thread You can't keep me from singing. Sandy has several messages that explain how the confusion about Quakers arose. There is no need to repost it all here.

All the places that say it's Quaker are perpetuating an initial mistake on Pete Seeger's part. People all seem to like the wrong story better than right one.

I have no idea where that Granny quote came from, your message does not have a link to your source. Does it give the source of the quote?

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 08:15 PM

There is a Japanese version in Sanbika ["The Hymnal"] (Nihon Kirisuto Kyoodan [The United Church of Christ in Japan], 1954, no. 530): "Ukiyo no nageki mo kokoro ni tomeji," with the Lowry tune (tune name: ENDLESS SONG). This is a revision of an earlier translation in Sanbika [Meiji edition] published in 1894 (no. 303; words only; tune name: ENDLESS SONG).

1. Ukiyo no nageki mo kokoro ni tomeji,
   Tokoyo no tanoshimi mi ni koso mitsure.
   Misora ni kikoyuru tae naru uta ni,
   Awasete warera mo iza home utawan.

2. Ukiyo no sakae wa kienaba kiene,
   Makoto no sakae wa Shu ni koso are ya.
   Yamiyo ni au tomo Shu tomo ni imashite,
   Miuta o tamaeba iza home utawan.

3. Misora o aogeba ukiyo no kumo wa
   Hi ni hi ni kieyuki kiri hata harenu.
   Yukute ni kagayaku tokoyo no hikari
   Mitomeshi warrera wa iza home utawan.

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 08:10 PM

Burke, re your re-posting of Sandy Paton's comments. Was Doris Plenn's grandmother a Quaker? Or is the quotation I put in my post of 5:43 pm, supposedly made to Plenn by her grandmother, false?

Here is the link to the quotation, which I forgot to give: Pete Singing

Who is Ann Warner or did she exist? (Not the Frank and Anne Warner collectors or the modern songwriter, but the one who was said to have composed the song ca. 1850).

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singi
From: Burke
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 06:56 PM

Quakers: Friends, Society of
also called Friends Church , byname Quakers Christian group that arose in mid-17th-century England, dedicated to living in accordance with the "Inward Light," or direct inward apprehension of God, without creeds, clergy, or other ecclesiastical forms. As most powerfully expressed by George Fox (1624–91), Friends felt that their "experimental" discovery of God would lead to the purification of all of Christendom. It did not; but Friends founded one American colony and were dominant for a time in several others, and though their numbers are now comparatively small, they continue to make disproportionate contributions to science, industry, and especially to the Christian effort for social reform.
"Society of Friends." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2004. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 9 Mar. 2004 .

Shakers: United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing celibate millenarian sect that established communal settlements in the United States in the 18th century. Dedicated to productive labour as well as to a life of perfection, Shaker communities flourished economically and contributed a distinctive style of architecture, furniture, and handicraft to American culture before the sect's decline in the late 19th and 20th centuries.

The Shakers derived originally from a small branch of radical English Quakers who had adopted the French Camisards' ritual practices of shaking, shouting, dancing, whirling, and singing in tongues. The Shaker doctrine, as it came to be known in the United States, was formulated by Ann Lee, an illiterate textile worker of Manchester, who was converted to the "Shaking Quakers" in 1758. After experiencing persecution and imprisonment for participation in noisy worship services, "Mother Ann" had a series of revelations, after which she regarded herself—and was so regarded by her followers—as the female aspect of God's dual nature and the second Incarnation of Christ. She established celibacy as a cardinal principle of the sect.

"Shaker." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2004. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 9 Mar. 2004 .

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singi
From: Burke
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 06:48 PM

Copied from the other thread. Sandy is an authority we can trust here:

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Can't Keep Me From Singing
From: Sandy Paton - PM
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 10:07 PM

Doris Plenn was not a Quaker. She learned the hymn she later re-wrote as an Episcopalian. You will note that I hedged my bets in my earlier post by saying "I'm told" that Quaker meetings are traditionally silent (until someone is moved to speak, that is). The contemporary songs recently compiled into a modern Quaker "hymnal" (including the Sydney Carter contributions) would be likely to include "How Can I Keep from Singing" as a powerful song popularized by contemporary "folk" singers, along with similar songs of "spirit" and social awareness. To call it "a Quaker hymn" is to suggest that the later "adoption of an adaptation" by a group replaces the actual origin, which it surely does not. Boy, I must have made my position as clear as mud, as my mother used to say.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 06:41 PM

Enya's songbook calls it a Shaker hymn.

What's the difference between a Quaker and a Shaker?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 06:09 PM

A website with both English and Spanish versions attributes the Lowry song to the Shakers. The Spanish version:

Lyr. Add: Cómo Puede Dejar De Cantar?

Mi vida transcurre como una canción sin fin
por encima de los lamentos de la tierra,
oigo el auténtico, aunque lejano himno
que saluda una creación nueva.

A través de todo el tumulto y la contienda
Oigo la música llamando
Suena un eco en mi alma
Có puedo dejar de cantar?

Mientras la tempestad ruge fuerte,
oigo que la verdad vive.
Y aunque la obscuridad me rodea,
me son concedidas en la noche.

Ninguna tormenta puede alterar mi profunda calma,
Mientras me adhiera a esta roca.
Puesto que el amor es en el señor del cielo y la tierra
Cómo puedo dejar de cantar?

Cuando los tiranos tiembien de miedo
y oigan su toque de muerte sonando,
cuando los amigos se regocijan tanto lejos como cerca
Cómo puedo dejar de cantar?

En celda de prisión y vil calabozo
nuestros pensamientos vuelan hacia ellos,
cuando los amigos son puros por vergüenza
cómo puedo dejar de cantar?

Como Puede Dejar De Cantar

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 05:43 PM

Several websites attribute this hymn to the Shakers. Kididdles.com which has many children's songs attributes it to the Shakers, and has a more PC kiddies version.

This website gives Doris Plenn's story of how she got the story from her Quaker grandmother in North Carolina. The grandmother told her: "Honey, this is my favorite song, and I want you to always remember it. It was made up years ago when people like us were being thrown in jail for their beliefs."
Plenn was told the original words were written in the 1850's by Ann Warner, who lived on an island in the Hudson that happens to be four miles south of my home in Beacon.
The third verse is by Doris Plenn, the song below copyright 1964 Sanga Music Inc.

The version in the DT re-arranges the Plenn verses. Here is the arrangement by Noel Stookey and Doris Plenn, copyright 1979 by Public Domain Foundation, Inc.

Lyr. Add: How Can I Keep From Singing

My life flows on in endless song
Above earth's lamentations
I hear the real, though far off hymn
That hails a new creation.

Above the tumult and the strife
I hear the music ringing
It sounds an echo in my soul
How can I keep from singing?

When tyrants tremble, sick with fear
And hear their death-knell ringing
When friends rejoice both far and near
How can I keep from singing?

In prison cell and dungeon vile
Our thoughts to them go winging
When friends by shame are undefiled
How can I keep from singing?

And while the tempest loudly roars
I hear the truth, it liveth
And through the darkness round me close
Songs in the night it giveth.

No storm can shake my inmost calm
While to that rock I'm clinging
Since love is lord of heaven and earth
How can I keep from singing?
How can I keep from singing?

How Can I Keep From Singing

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 04:52 PM

The original 1860 hymn by Robert Lowry is not in the DT, but the words were posted by Joe Offer in thread 40581.
Lowry How Can I Keep

The midi to the DT re-write sounds something like the original tune written by Robert Lowry for his lyrics, but a more upbeat tune by Ira D. Sankey is preferred by many.

Midis for both the Lowry and Sankey tunes are in Cyberhymnal, also the scores. (Can't bring up the scores- I have Acrobat but lack '%pdf' and don't know how to add it)
How Can I Keep From Singing

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: GUEST,Frank T
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 03:32 PM

Pete Seeger recorded it again on his CD " Pete" which came out a few years ago. It is an excellent Cd .. if you haven't heard it get a copy ... fantastic stuff !

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singi
From: open mike
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 09:05 PM

does SATB stand for Soprano Alto Tenor Bass?
and is that the name of a choir book?

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singi
From: Burke
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 06:35 PM

The Quaker information is totally & completely wrong. See the links provided in the earlier messages, especially the one in Spaw's message.

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 03:42 PM

I saw a choir version (SATB) that indicated that it was a Quaker song from c. 1870. It is also found in a contemporary Catholic song book titled "Spirit & Song".

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: GUEST,pat shields
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 10:00 PM

I know John McCutcheon had a album by that title in the 70's...maybe if you email him he can shed some light.

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: Amergin
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 10:21 PM

If I remember correctly, one of the books I have says that Plenn wrote that one verse about the McCarthy era....

Subject: RE: Help: song history - How Can I Keep From Singing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 09:08 PM

Copied from a duplicate thread.
-Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Help: song history
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 20-Mar-01 - 02:21 PM

Jennifer, If you'll put "how can I keep from singing" (without the quotes) in the Digitrad and Forum Search box on the first page of this site, you'll get lots of info. It seems that this song is a favorite of many people, and seem to turn up in many conversations. I noted in one thread that it's the name of Pete Seeger's autobiography.

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Subject: RE: Help: song history
From: catspaw49
Date: 20-Mar-01 - 02:35 PM

Some info here alluding to Quaker origins which ties in some with the abolition/civil rights end.

But that particular thing is debunked by Sandy Paton on THIS THREAD

Good reading.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: song history
From: Burke
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 07:13 PM

It's not Quaker.

The music is by Robert Lowry, who wrote a lot of tunes for evangelical hymns in the late 19th century. The words are sometimes attributed to Anna Warner, but from another list I've been told: The Dictionary of American Hymnology regarded the matter as unsettled, author unknown.

Its original printing (with tune) was in Rob't. Lowry, ed., Bright Jewels for the Sunday School (Boston: H.A. Brown & Co., 1869), p. 16. It was republished many times after that.

Pete Seeger learned it from Doris Plenn, who had it from her North Carolina family. Doris Plenn is also supposed to be responsible for the 3rd "tyrants tremble" verse. There are some other minor variations.

The words are here in the DT database. You can find the original words at Cyberhymnal

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/c/hcaikeep.htm

Subject: song history
From: GUEST,Jennifer
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 02:03 PM

I am looking for info regarding the song "How Can I Keep From Singing". I know it was done by Pete Seeger in the '60's, but I've also heard it has some association with Abolition/Civil Rights. Does anyone know about this?