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BS: Bushwhacked-NINE!
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Subject: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:25 PM Clicky (I hope) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 29 Mar 01 - 08:13 PM Dear Carol, "I've been thinking about this one for a while. I haven't read all of the posts, so maybe this has already been addressed....MAV, it sounds like you're saying that it makes more sense to use faucet filters than it does to take good care of our water supply. Is that what you're saying, or am I misreading you?"
Thank you for asking. Let's have a conversation on this topic.
Here is something which is a fact and I don't really like the reality of it.
The way it is now, a city on a river takes water out, filters it, puts chlorine in it and distributes it to the citizens who then drink some of it, take showers in it, put detergent and other chemicals in it, flush toilets with it and consequently return it to the sewer and thus the sewage treatment plant.
The treatment plant then lets it settle, aerates it and adds more chlorine to it and returns it to the river.
So far, so good. OK?
The water now has unknown household chemicals, biological material, human waste and chlorine in it.
At the very least you will have numerous chlorine compounds, cholorform and dioxin in the river water now.
The next town down the river takes in water and adds chlorine to it etc. and on, and on, and on.....I think you probably are starting to get the picture. Each time the concentrations get worse.
Think about the water quality at the end of the line. UGH!
Allow me to repost your question... "it sounds like you're saying that it makes more sense to use faucet filters than it does to take good care of our water supply. Is that what you're saying, or am I misreading you?" Well, yes and no...I wouldn't be caught dead drinking "city water" without a faucet filter (or maybe I would) but as you probably know, I don't live in a city.
Perhaps that's why we have high incidences of certain "American" diseases (cancer etc.)
I'm not sure one can "take good care" of the typical water supply scenario outlined above.
I would think treating the water from a rain barrel would net you a better quality drinking water. I also believe the idea of using the same expensive quality of "drinking" water to flush, water the lawn, wash the car etc. is sheer madness in both financial and pragmatic terms. (Pronounced BILLION$)
Let me close by saying I do not want arsenic in drinking water, mine, your's or anybody else's .
Looking forward to your reply.
Best regards, mav
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 29 Mar 01 - 09:48 PM MAV,
I guess I don't know what the debate is about with regard to drinking water then. I'm having some difficulty finding any difference between your position and the positions of the people who are arguing with you on this subject. Perhaps I've done everyone an injustice by just scanning some of the posts. I do know what you are talking about when you describe the river water scenario. My drinking and bathing water comes from the Potomac River. The water here is terrible. It makes me very sick just taking showers in it, and that's with two filters on my shower. I never drink it. Filters don't get out enough of the contaminants that make me sick. I buy bottled water, although it's a big financial burden for me.
Maybe you're right about it not being possible to take better care of our water. I have to say, though, that I would dearly love for us to try. I'm tired of being sick. Take care, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Ebbie Date: 29 Mar 01 - 09:52 PM Mav, I'm with you on that subject: We need to compel ourselves to put in plumbing, however much it costs, that separates 'white', 'gray' and 'black' water. As it stands (or flows) now, our best water is going into the same sewage systems that treat our most polluted water. If we had had the forethought, when indoor plumbing was first installed- not really so many years ago- to separate the systems, we would readily see the sense of it. And it's not too late. We have a lot to answer for to the next generations. Ebbie
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 29 Mar 01 - 11:38 PM Dear Carol, "Maybe you're right about it not being possible to take better care of our water. I have to say, though, that I would dearly love for us to try. I'm tired of being sick"
I'm not saying it's not possible, they just haven't done it and I don't think we're on the right track.
I'm sorry your water situation is so bad. If you can't get out of there (my water comes from a shallow dug well in the yard), get a water distiller for drinking water and buy mineral supplements from the pharmacy.
Get a sauna and just towel off after. Have someone help you rig up a rainwater collection system to shampoo and bathe. I believe it rains quite a bit there.
I've done this while living in the woods out of necessity, I guess your different (urban) situation could demand similar solutions.
I realize this sounds a little "Mother Earth" but not relying on your poisonous municipal water supply and becoming self reliant could save your life.
Ebbie,
"Mav, I'm with you on that subject"
You're probably with me on lots of subjects, we just never got that far. "As it stands (or flows) now, our best water is going into the same sewage systems that treat our most polluted water"
Not only that, the storm sewers in many cities are required to flow into the sewage treatment plants (which cannot handle the extra capacity) and then just flow untreated raw effluent into rivers.
"If we had had the forethought, when indoor plumbing was first installed- not really so many years ago- to separate the systems, we would readily see the sense of it. And it's not too late" No, but you'd have to change laws or break them, risking a visit from the code enforcement officer. They are so much smarter than us (sarcasm).
There are composting toilet systems from Scandinavia which use no water at all and do not pollute.
Collecting rainwater and treating it on site would be much more efficient and less expensive than the ineffective water treatment methods used now (which is making Carol sick).
I find it hard to believe that household "gray water" is that hard to treat before returning it to the ground (a non-toilet septic tank)
"We have a lot to answer for to the next generations"
That's why I'm so critical of urban problems and the insane conditions one can find there. People just accept them as normal.
Being a "country cousin" I have to fix everything myself, but that gives me a chance to think and experiment. Well folks, it's been nice shootin' the $h!+ (so to speak) but I have to get to bed.
I'm looking forward to having more timely and thoughtful discussions with you on topics of the day. mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 30 Mar 01 - 12:38 AM MAV,
Actually, I've been looking at water distillers the last couple of days, but they are very expensive up front, and they are energy hogs as long as you use them. I'd like to get a small solar panel and a deep cycle marine battery so I can run it off the grid, but these are very high up front costs as well, and I'm on a limited income. A sauna is out of the question, financially, and I can't do the rainbarrel because I live in an apartment. (In a very small town surrounded by farmland.) I haven't figured out exactly what I'm going to do about this yet. That one particular need is competing with a whole lot of other needs that aren't getting met either. I have to decide how I'm going to allocate resources, and I'm finding it very difficult to do that right now.
I appreciate your suggestions, though. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 31 Mar 01 - 04:51 PM Dear Carol, There are many books on the topic, and probably numerous sites online which deal with the subject of solar water distillation.
If you've ever left a piece of plastic wrap or drop cloth on the lawn, you will see the mist and then droplets of water form.
One survival trick is to put poly (plastic sheeting) on a stick frame over a damp area or puddle. You place a stone or other weight in the middle to cause a low spot for water to drip from.
This is especially good for collecting dew.
A more elaborate (but HS science project level) system can be made up of a water tray (lined in black) and a sloping cover of window glass.
The sloping glass needs a little gutter under the bottom edge to catch the water that runs down the inside.
You would need to have sides and a back (could be styrofoam) to make it somewhat airtight and allow heat to build up inside.
The sun heats up the water and causes it to vaporize.
It then condenses on the cooler glass (must be glass, not plexiglass)
The above unit uses no electricity and would require some twiddling to get it dialed in. Since it is totally passive it may need to be made larger to make a usable amount of water.
This is much less complicated and expensive than solar cells and a deep discharge battery since it "cuts out the middleman" by using the sun's heat directly.
You could probably build one that would fit in one of your south facing windows for experimental purposes.
Be sure to use the "Handy Man's Secret Weapon"....(duck tape) Hang in there, mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 31 Mar 01 - 05:35 PM Thanks, MAV.
I've wondered a lot about a solar still. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the phrase "would require some twiddling to get it dialed in". Have you ever messed around with solar stills? I have very little available space and I've been wondering if I have enough room to make a still that would produce as much water as I would need if I were going to use it for showering as well as drinking. (I'm figuring if I use it for showering, I can get one of those portable hanging shower bags, so water delivery wouldn't be a problem) I figure I would probably need about five gallons a day. (I have long hair, and it's very thick and no, I'm not going to cut it off. ;-) Also, I don't have any south facing windows. I have an east facing window. Do you think that would work? Do you know the names of any books about solar stills? The only mention I was able to find on-line was a solar still sold by "Real Goods" that has to float on water to work, and produces very little water per day. I think it's for survival on the open sea. I used to see a lot more stuff on this subject back in the old "back to the land" days in the late seventies and early eighties, but I haven't seen much about it lately. Maybe we can get Wyo Woman to do some articles on this subject now that she's the new Managing Editor of Mother Earth News Magazine. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 31 Mar 01 - 10:20 PM Dear Carol,
"I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the phrase "would require some twiddling to get it dialed in"
Well, you might have to make a small one first just to get an idea of how much water a certain glass size (1 sq. ft. for example) will produce. Then you would know how big to make it and if it would be realistic.
I would only consider using distilled water for drinking purposes as it would be overkill (since it takes so long to make) for bathing.
"Also, I don't have any south facing windows. I have an east facing window. Do you think that would work?"
Well, I don't think you'd be real impressed, it would only work in the morning.
All water filters are not created equal. You may want to "go shopping" and let all the salesmen make their pitch on that topic and take their literature too. At the very least you would get a free education on the subject. If they can demonstrate the effectiveness of a given filter (even if it is a little expensive) it may blow away the one(s) you're currently using and give you the relief you need.
I guess my question is; Did you choose the filtration system, or did the landlord?
You may be able to do better since it's your health in question, not his "bottom line".
"Have you ever messed around with solar stills? I have very little available space and I've been wondering if I have enough room to make a still that would produce as much water as I would need if I were going to use it for showering as well as drinking. (I'm figuring if I use it for showering, I can get one of those portable hanging shower bags, so water delivery wouldn't be a problem) I figure I would probably need about five gallons a day"
Only as toys, since we have never had a bad water problem. I do know they would have to be pretty big to deliver that amount for you, and they would work best only during ideal weather conditions.
I think the best answer is rain water for bathing. If someone would just let you set up a wooden barrel, it's awesome for hair, ask Wyo Woman.
(I have long hair, and it's very thick and no, I'm not going to cut it off. ;-)"
I WOULD NEVER ask you to do that!
I did cut my own hair (lost the ponytail) and now keep it short for public purposes.
"Do you know the names of any books about solar stills? The only mention I was able to find on-line was a solar still sold by "Real Goods" that has to float on water to work, and produces very little water per day. I think it's for survival on the open sea. I used to see a lot more stuff on this subject back in the old "back to the land" days in the late seventies and early eighties, but I haven't seen much about it lately"
I'm afraid I don't. That's also where I saw the information, but I did go "back to the land" (of course I came from "back to the land" in the first place, just different land)
"Maybe we can get Wyo Woman to do some articles on this subject now that she's the new Managing Editor of Mother Earth News Magazine"
That's an exellent idea and I'm glad to know that about her. MEN has always been a great resource for those self-reliance kind of projects. I have a huge collection of them around here somewhere.
I've gotta fly, nice visiting with you.
mav out |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 01 Apr 01 - 04:27 AM Thanks for all of the suggestions, MAV. It's pretty obvious that I'm going to have to put a lot of thought into what I'm going to do about this. I feel that I've got a little more knowlege in my arsenal now, though. Take care, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 01 Apr 01 - 09:36 AM You're welcome and Good luck.
mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Naemanson Date: 01 Apr 01 - 10:26 PM The handyman's secret weapon is duct tape. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: GUEST,Uncle Jaque Date: 01 Apr 01 - 11:16 PM Ahoy, Mates; I'm BACK!!! Went to fire up me auld Gateway last week and it said; "Hard drive? What hard drive??? surely you jest! There's no 'Hard Drive' here! Please insert bootable media in the appropriate drive and perhaps we'll talk..." About a week and $260 later, we have a new 8.4 Gig HG (in stead of 3) a 200Mhz processor (up from 166) and some other ruffles and flourishes the details of which I don't particularly recall. It has taken most of the weekend to re-install software and restore data from backup CDRW (which I am REALLY GLAD we backed up, by the way) and re-establish internet settings etc. (what a pain- but a learning experience) we are back in the world! I did miss e-mail and this little community, but I did manage to put in some shop time restoring an antique revolver and tinkering on one of my inventions. Havn't been posting much here even before the crash, but do enjoy checking in to keep track of what's goin on. Do I detect a resurgence of civility and.. could it be... just a bit of human warmth breaking forth here??? Glory Hallellujia! I'm hoping... in a manner occasionally confused with casual prayer.. that as more of my beloved fellow Mudcatters get beyond some apparant assumptions, preconcieved stereotypes, and misconceptions sufficiently to come to know my Amigo MAV a little better, that they too will come to accept, appreciate, respect... and dare we ask?... even like him... as it has been my priviledge to do sice we met a couple of years ago. To the best of my knowledge, he doesn't eat cats (intentionally anyway, although he delights in Indian cuisine) bite little children, breathe fire or persecute anybody... for anything. I never knew just what "ragtime" meant until he explained it to me, and he plays a really mean blues harp. That's a harmonica for those of you down in Palm Beach County. It's good to be back! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Peter Kasin Date: 02 Apr 01 - 04:20 AM Welcome back, Uncle Jacques. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Naemanson Date: 02 Apr 01 - 06:11 AM Welcome back, Jaque. I have been digesting what was said between Carol, MAV, and Ebbie above. While it is all accurate and necessary I'm not sure Ebbie and Mav realize that Mav lives in an area where he can do all the things he talks about. He has access to a relatively clean environment. I believe Carol lives in a small town but in the heart of coal mining country. I'm not sure where Ebbie lives. My point is that the problem is not solved by an individual figuring out how to clean up his or her own water. We have to recognize that the days of solving the problem of pollution by dumping the waste into the environment is over. It is time to clean up, time to take responsibility for our mess, and time to ensure that our children and grandchildren can actually exist in the world we leave them. The world looks to the greatest nation to lead them and the nation looks to its president. And he is falling flat on his face worshipping at the altar of the almighty dollar and ignoring what the rest of us need. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: kendall Date: 02 Apr 01 - 09:35 AM Define "greatest" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Naemanson Date: 02 Apr 01 - 09:57 AM Greatest = Highest Standard Of Living (For the purposes of this discussion) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Ebbie Date: 02 Apr 01 - 01:22 PM I live in a fairly remote area, detached from the power grid in the US. We are accessible only by air and water. We have lots of water. It is treated, probably more because of potential giardia problems from wildlife in the woods than from actual pollution, but it is sweet and cold and clear year 'round. We create our own electricity locally by hydropower except on the odd occasion when an eagle short circuits the line and then we use turbopower until it's repaired. This is a cool climate so although root vegetables grow well here, a great many fruits and vegetables are not hardy enough. And because we are so far from markets we don't do a great deal of recycling. Even disposing of a junked car is expensive here. We have to remove the oil and gas and the tires (which cost us a separate $5.00 each to dispose of) have to come off. The whole operation costs the owner just under $300. Junking costs for refrigerators are proportionate. We pay $65 for having the Freon removed and disposed of and then 7 cents a pound at the landfill. All that said, I love it here. In many ways, I think Juneau, Alaska is part of the solution, not the problem. Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Naemanson Date: 02 Apr 01 - 01:58 PM I knew about the giardia. My brother lives in Anchorage and has mentioned it. It sounds like your area has a handle on recycling. What do you do about trash? Do you recycle containers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 02 Apr 01 - 02:03 PM I think that what's different in this incarnation of the Bushwhacked series, Uncle Jaque, is that those of us on both sides of the debate (if it could be called a debate) practiced civility and moderation. It also helped that we both agree that clean water is important, both at home as well as in the larger environment. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Ebbie Date: 02 Apr 01 - 02:14 PM Naemanson, the Lions Club picks up newsprint and aluminum from central pickup points. Glass is crushed at our local Friends of Recycling station and some of it is used sub-strata for streets. But a lot of it goes out in the trash instead of recycled because the word is out that it's piling up with no place to go. The reason that junking a car costs so much is that they say they can't make a profit on it by barging it the thousand miles down to Seattle. This is a new development, however; up until 3 years ago, junking a car was free once you had removed the oil and tires. Giardia, of course, can happen anywhere there is wildlife in the area. Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Naemanson Date: 02 Apr 01 - 03:33 PM thanks, Ebbie. Carol, part of the reason this is so civilized is that we haven't looked at the basic reason for the need to clean the water and the efforts the current administration is making to avoid the issue. (Uh oh, did I just say something to fire up the debate?) There is quite a discussion of the current administration's failures on the Kyoto thread. None of our conservatives have added to that thread yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 02 Apr 01 - 03:58 PM I agree with you Naemanson.
Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of people who become so invested in the candidates they support, that even when those candidates/office holders behave in ways that are contradictory to some of their beliefs or thought processes, they will defend all of that candidate/office holder's actions and decisions. I don't know if MAV is such a person or not. My observations of MAV's positions so far, is that he does in fact disagree with some of G.W.'s policies. I don't know if he would admit this or if he's even aware of it. I'm prepared to be corrected about this if I'm wrong. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: GUEST,kendall Date: 02 Apr 01 - 04:56 PM Is our standard of living higher than, say, Sweden? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: GUEST,#1 Date: 02 Apr 01 - 05:06 PM Nah, they start at sea level, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Naemanson Date: 02 Apr 01 - 05:50 PM You know what I mean, Kendall. Sure there are a few other nations who live better but none so profligate as the good ol' USA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 02 Apr 01 - 06:44 PM This has been a friendly thread because nobody has dared to disagree with the almighty MAV yet. I predict that once that happens, he will turn ugly and start spewing venom again, although he will be careful not to use actual expletives, and thereby be able to claim the moral high ground in his own mind. He will use names like "democRATs" and "socialist/communist/leftist" and other rude and/or inaccurate monikers of his own invention. Watch. Now I've done it. Mark my words. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 02 Apr 01 - 08:38 PM Alex, I think your post has probably done the trick. No need for anyone to disagree with him now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: GUEST,Stakley Date: 02 Apr 01 - 09:00 PM Ah, yes- the saintly, reasonable MAV. However you choose to dress shit up, gang, it's still shit and it still stinks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 02 Apr 01 - 09:09 PM Clearly I'm in over my head on this thread now, so I'll let more reasoned thinkers take over and I'll go back to playing in the shallow end where I belong.
Still having a hard time figuring out the difference between a liberal/democrat flamer and troll and a conservative/republican/libertarian flamer and troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: GUEST,MAV Date: 02 Apr 01 - 11:47 PM I didn't feel like resetting my cookie.
Naemanson,
Duck tape? Why, did something quack??
Duct tape is actually duck tape. It doesn't work real well on ductwork, it just gets dry and brittle and falls apart. It was originally designed to repair duck cloth, in which case it's just "ducky".
Mouse,
Consider your words marked.
"although he will be careful not to use actual expletives, and thereby be able to claim the moral high ground in his own mind.
And in the mind of anyone else who is offended by such highschool language, in fact I can swear like a bleeping pirate.
"He will use names like "democRATs" and "socialist/communist/leftist"
I never said..."Mousethief you are a ..." Why I had no idea you were a democrat or an LSC, if fact I think you said you weren't.
You said you didn't know who the Grand Imperial Wizard of the Senate was (democRAT Robert Byrd WV) which made me wonder why you felt compelled to argue politics in the first place.
"and other rude and/or inaccurate monikers of his own invention"
I thought "LSC" was an invention of Skeptic (maybe Chicago John) and was already a common reference icon of this forum (like your "shite"), so I used it. It certainly isn't my creature.
Of course if you are an "LSC" and are constantly taking pot shots at conservativism, you can't really expect me to sit here and not defend myself can you?
Hey stakley (or staklea) learn to spell your own name will you?
Yes, we smell you.
My wife was on the solid waste committee in our rural town. We are the model recycling community in the state.
Other towns ask us how we get the residents to participate to such a high degree of recycling.
I live in such an unspoiled environment because I choose to. I don't need any of the attributes of urban living and have never been a city dweller (well, except for Lincoln NE).
There has been a successful and concerted effort to clean up the rivers in this state and I will be the first to give the environmentalists credit for it. Never mind W, the Sentate rejected the Kyoto treaty months ago by perhaps 95 to 0. It was largely rejected because it didn't hold some of the world's worst polluters responsible for the gawd-awful messes being made (in the third world) but punished the US who by comparison has been relatively responsible.
"nobody has dared to disagree with the almighty MAV"
Disagree away, I won't bite.
the almighty mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Naemanson Date: 03 Apr 01 - 09:02 AM MAV, are we talking about the silver 2" tape? If so it is duct tape and is used to seal joints in duct work. Check with Bert, he used to work in the industry. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side and a dark side and binds the universe together." Also, since this is turning into a flame thread I will bow out too. A reasoned discussion is my interest not the merry flinging of barbs and racks. Have fun, boys. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 10:46 AM MAV, I'm still waiting for an apology for your telling me what I was really thinking when I said I was thinking something else. That right there proves that any language I might use about you is probably justified; only someone describable with such language would have both the hubris and the unconcern for others that such behavior displays. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:52 AM Stackly - Be alerted! Some bloody sod called "Stakley" is pretending to be you...at least I think he is. MAV already alluded to that in his post, but I thought you might discount it, coming from him. As a fellow leftist, I advise you to do something about it pronto. That stupid git "Stakley" has no right usurping your position in this thread! - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:01 PM Not sure if this counts for anything, but Merriam Webster shows "duct tape" as entering the written language in 1970 as "a wide silvery cloth adhesive tape designed for sealing joints in heating or air-conditioning ducts." It has no entry for "duck tape." Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Skeptic Date: 03 Apr 01 - 02:33 PM To interject fact into this otherwise fascinating exercise in fantasy, LSC was a creation of Chicago John. Referring, I think, to anyone who disagreed with his point of view. I, on the other hand classify those who disagree with me as simply wrong. AS that includes most everyone, it makes life easier. I think the "duct" and "duck" tape refers to two different products. The silvery kind is, (I think) metallic and works on HVAC duct work, while the other kind is fabric based and comes in lovely designer colors and doesn't work on ducts at all. It is invaluable at a gig for dealing with pesky tangles of patch cords and obnoxious hecklers. Sadly, there is no such thing as virtual duct tape (second meaning) Regards John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Apr 01 - 04:02 PM I should think that virtual duct tape could be quite useful...someone should write a program for it and sell it on the Net. You could tape over all the parts of other people's posts that you don't agree with or find insensitive or offensive in some way with this virtual duct tape. Then you wouldn't have to get all agitated all over again each time you took another look at a thread, but could just painlessly go by the parts that you didn't like! The tape would only show up on your own screen, of course. Wow! I think this program would be a big seller on Mudcat and would at least create the illusion of peace and harmony around even the most contentious issues. By the way, the whole water discussion earlier was great! No need for much virtual duct tape there. Well, unless you're really sensitive, that is... Oh, and there is NO SUCH THING as "duck" tape. That is simply a mispronunciation of duct tape by the same people who think that "youse" is a word you use for "you" when there's more than one other person in the room. If you don't like it, TAPE IT! :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 03 Apr 01 - 04:23 PM I don't know, mousethief. I've been pretty offended by some of the things you've said to me, but I'm not going to use that kind of language on you. I don't always succeed, but I try to live by the concept of rising above that which offends me. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Naemanson Date: 03 Apr 01 - 04:32 PM I try to live by a few simple principles: I treat others as I would like to be treated. I try, as hard as it sometimes is, to see that there are two sides to each issue. I try to let attacks slide past me and not to respond. Any of these principles sound familiar? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 05:10 PM I repent! You all are SO superior to me! Teach me your ways! Please! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 03 Apr 01 - 06:14 PM I repent! You all are SO superior to me! Teach me your ways! Please!
I'm going to take your request seriously, although you have couched it in sarcasm. That post, for a start. Do you think it served any useful purpose other than to vent negative feelings? Elsewhere in the forum, you have mentioned that you have A.D.D. I have it too. So I know what it's like. One of the things that is so great about a forum like this one, is that it gives us an opportunity to spend some time thinking about what we are going to communicate. It also gives us an opportunity to moniter our behavior. Those are two incredibly useful tools for people with A.D.D. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 06:59 PM Maybe I'm too thin-skinned, Carol. When you started foaming about how wonderful this particular Bushwacked thread was compared to earlier ones, I took that as a personal slam. I wanted to point out that the reason it was so wonderful had less to do with the reasons you cited, and more to do with the fact that nobody had crossed MAV, which was when all the previous Bushwacked threads turned ugly. I agree that people with ADD need to monitor their behavior. I admire your ability in this area. If I'm kicked and beaten and bruised enough here at Mudcat, I will probably get good at it too. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Greg F. Date: 03 Apr 01 - 08:15 PM Makes you appreciate just how wonderful it could be if nobody responded to MAV at all!Let's all give that a try. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 03 Apr 01 - 08:33 PM I know I run the risk of being flamed when I say this, mousethief. It is not my intention to get into a battle with you over this. I just want to say this one thing. Many of the experiences I've had in the Mudcat in which I've ended up feeling as you have described, kicked and beaten and bruised, have come about as a result of things you have posted and directed at me. "Foaming" would be an interesting example of this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 03 Apr 01 - 10:39 PM Dear Carol, Is this guy bothering you?
Although you seem perfectly capable of handling him yourself, he does seem to be perpetually willing to "bully" people.
Now about that Cajun accordian? Naemonson,
Come back, I was just kidding about duck tape. It's really duct tape.
Check it out.......
Hey "Genius",
"MAV, I'm still waiting for an apology for your telling me what I was really thinking when I said I was thinking something else"
NOPE! Not so fast! What I was thinking you were thinking is really what you were thinking not what you were saying you were thinking and actually I would like to know what the heck you were thinking, thinking something like that.....Think about it!
"That right there proves that any language I might use about you is probably justified; only someone describable with such language would have both the hubris and the unconcern for others that such behavior displays"
You're reaching, using anything as an excuse for such offensive vulgarity. I agree that only someone describable with such language would have both the hubris and the unconcern for others that such behavior displays.
"Maybe I'm too thin-skinned, Carol. When you started foaming..."
Yeah, maybe you are. She's way more reserved, stable and mature in her attitudes than you are....Why don't you nicen up.
Little Hawk,
Stackly, stakley, stacklea...I think he/she thinks these alias are fooling us into thinking it's different people.
And last (but least)....Dear what's-his-name
"Makes you appreciate just how wonderful it could be if nobody responded to MAV at all"
(feet up on desk, looking at ceiling, whistling softly while buffing nails, crickets chirping in background)p> mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 03 Apr 01 - 10:52 PM Sorry, MAV, can't do Cajun. My brain's not fast enough. Neither are my fingers. It's great to listen to, though, isn't it? Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Apr 01 - 10:57 PM "(feet up on desk, looking at ceiling, whistling softly while buffing nails, crickets chirping in background)" God, that sounds so nice and peaceful... I couldn't help chuckling and smiling when I read it. Thanks. I needed that tonight. Sometimes it's nice just to hear the crickets. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:03 PM In my humble opinion (he he)..Cajun or Zydico makes the accordian as hip as sax or a hot blues guitar.
Sigh....and I thought I'd found my Zydico guru, oh well, I can aspire and learn by ear.
One question though, are there two sizes of keys available in the "piano" accordian (like full sized ones)?
Ok, two questions, what are the buttons for? Thanks, mav out |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:19 PM You got crickets !? Our trees aren't even in leaf yet. There are at least three different widths of keys available on accordions that I know of. There may be more, but there's still a lot I don't know about accordions. The keys each play one note per key. So with the keys, you can play a melody, or chords if you play three keys at a time. (I know this sounds very elementary, but I can't explain it any other way.) Some of the buttons play chords (three notes per button). Some buttons play basses and counter basses (two notes per button). The buttons are used as chord accompaniment and as rhythm for the melody that is usually played on the keys. Like I said, I'm still learning a lot of this stuff myself, so I can't explain it as well as someone who's played the accordion for a long time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:52 PM Well, that's pretty good. I always heard "counter bass" but never before knew what it meant.
So I guess you have to kind of memorize those rascally buttons huh?
Thanks Carol, all good stuff. Guess I need the big keys.
re: crickets.....actually it was FOXNEWS but "crickets" was a more mood setting choice, a little application of poetic license.
"Our trees aren't even in leaf yet"
Just kidding, I still have 4' of snow in my yard.
It's time to put away our crayons. Night folks.
mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 04 Apr 01 - 12:12 AM Yup. You got to memorize them. It just takes practice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 04 Apr 01 - 01:55 AM Here we see how compassionate MAV is. I've already indicated, twice now, once rudely and once politely, that something he said was very offensive to me. To wit: MAV, I'm still waiting for an apology for your telling me what I was really thinking when I said I was thinking something else NOPE! Not so fast! What I was thinking you were thinking is really what you were thinking not what you were saying you were thinking and actually I would like to know what the heck you were thinking, thinking something like that.....Think about it! I'm afraid joking about something somebody else is serious about doesn't make it less serious, nor does it either justify or excuse past rudeness. The rudeness doesn't stop flowing, however. . She's way more reserved, stable and mature in her attitudes than you are.... Again, trying to read my mind? Or does "attitudes" here mean "postings"? Strange use for the word, but I've seen stranger things. Finally, the pot calls the kettle dirty: "Why don't you nicen up." Sure MAV. Next George Bush will be giving me advice on running an oil company. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 04 Apr 01 - 02:02 AM Many of the experiences I've had in the Mudcat in which I've ended up feeling as you have described, kicked and beaten and bruised, have come about as a result of things you have posted and directed at me. "Foaming" would be an interesting example of this. I am truly sorry if I have ever made you feel kicked, beaten, or bruised. I certainly wasn't intending to kick, beat, or bruise you with the use of "foaming" but to point out something of what I felt to be the emptiness (full of air, like foam) of praise of a thread without bickering, given the circumstances. Perhaps bad word choice; perhaps I should have just kept quiet. I'm sorry I made you feel bad. My foot is in my mouth more often than on the ground these days. And I'm especially sorry you were the victim of this. I certainly have disagreed with you more than once, and sometimes quite strongly, but have never, in my recollection, tried purposely to make you feel bad. And if I have done so and just don't remember (the memory is always so faulty at remembering one's own faults), I apologize.
sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 04 Apr 01 - 02:12 AM I accept your apology, Alex. It was graciously given, and I appreciate it. I guess that's why it's so important for us to monitor ourselves and what we say. It's so easy to make a slip of the tongue that can hurt people. You felt hurt by MAV, I felt hurt by you. We all have feelings. The part that I find most helpful, is being able to go back and look at what I've posted, see what kind of response I got from my posts, and evaluate whether or not I want to try a different approach in the future. I've learned an incredible amount about myself, and about other people this way. Nothing I've ever experienced before has helped me as much. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 04 Apr 01 - 02:19 AM Hey MAV, on a lighter note, since you seem incapable of apologizing and we're expected to get along, I went to the Duct Tape site you blicked to above, and found the following incredible statement: The new Duct tape CD, Side One, is drawing tremendous attention for a number of reasons. First and foremost is the incredible original sound of the band. Duct tape contrasts sharply with the many similar sounding groups dominating the airwaves. So are they original-sounding, or are there many similar sounding groups? Talk about wanting to eat your cake and have it. :-) Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: dick greenhaus Date: 04 Apr 01 - 10:26 AM ...and there is a product on the market with the copyrighted name of Duck Tape... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Apr 01 - 05:13 PM No! Well, that is just unconscionable! "Duck" Tape indeed! It's a disgrace. First some ignorant people misprounonce the word (or misconstrue it) and then some other people market it using said mistake as the new name. One uses the stuff on ducts, NOT on ducks. Just try using it on a duck and see what happens... I do not like where all this is leading...and I blame TV, the Jetsons, the Flintstones, the Simpsons, commercial advertising, Bob Hope(less), Al C(r)app, Bill the Cat, AND George Bush, the elder!!! Oh, and Jesse Jackson too! (talk about strange bedfellows...) When is this madness going to end??????????? - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: mousethief Date: 04 Apr 01 - 05:21 PM Little Hawk, once again I must ask you, is it time to switch to decaf? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 04 Apr 01 - 06:33 PM Little Hawk, it is not very often that I find myself disagreeing with you on anything. However, I must take exception to your gross slander of my hero, Bill the Cat. I'm sorry, but that's just going too far. Shall we step outside to discuss it? Irrespectfully, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Skeptic Date: 04 Apr 01 - 08:36 PM CarolC, I offer to be your second. Little Hawk Blame Bill the Cat indeed! Philistine. God alone (I can say that 'cause this ain't the PC thread) knows what other dangerous ideas you harbor, waiting to be proclaimed to unsuspecting mutcatters. I did notice that you left my favorite "to blame" off your list....Microsoft. Regards John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:20 PM Well, folks, here is the big news:
The Miami Herald, along with USA Today, have recounted in Florida and now, for the seventh or eighth time, we've been told that George Bush would have won a Florida recount.
Although it was close, President Bush is the legitimate president of the United States, fairly and justly elected according to our Constitution.
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Newspapers' recount shows Bush prevailedUSA Today-
George W. Bush would have won a hand count of Florida's disputed ballots if the standard advocated by Al Gore had been used, the first full study of the ballots reveals.
Bush would have won by 1,665 votes — more than triple his official 537-vote margin — if every dimple, hanging chad and mark on the ballots had been counted as votes, a USA TODAY/Miami Herald/Knight Ridder study shows.
The study is the first comprehensive review of the 61,195 "undervote" ballots that were at the center of Florida's disputed presidential election.
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If they keep recounting, W will get over 60% (a landslide) mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Troll Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:34 PM CarolC, I have two pounds of grapes and I await your call. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: flattop Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:38 PM Are you 100% happy with your new president MAV? Not disappointed a wee bit? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:47 PM Wow, troll. Kinda hard to pass up an offer like that one. I guess I'll have to put off my deul with Little Hawk for another day. I suppose Skeptic can hold the pistols or swords, eh? Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:47 PM
Rather Apologizes For Fund Raiserby DAVID BAUDER AP Television Writer
NEW YORK (AP) -- CBS News anchorman Dan Rather apologized Wednesday for ''an embarrassing and regrettable error in judgment'' by speaking at a Democratic Party fund-raiser in Texas last month. Donors paid as much as $1,000 to hear Rather on March 21 at a party held in the back yard of a friend, Austin City Council member Will Wynn, The Washington Post reported. News organizations usually set strict rules to maintain the appearance of impartiality among their correspondents. CBS News prohibits participation in political fund-raisers. ''It was a serious mistake, which I acknowledge,'' Rather said in a statement. ''No one believes more strongly in CBS News standards than I do, and I have let those standards down.'' Rather, anchorman of the ''CBS Evening News'' since 1981, said he has apologized to CBS News President Andrew Heyward and his colleagues at the network. ''I made an embarrassing and regrettable error in judgment by going to this event,'' he said. ''I am determined to do everything possible to guard against any future word and deed that would even suggest any question about where CBS News and I stand when it comes to ethical journalistic conduct.'' Rather, 69, was unavailable to answer questions, a spokeswoman said. He told the Post that he didn't know the event was a fund-raiser when he arrived in Austin, but that he didn't ask enough questions ahead of time. When he arrived, the event's purpose was clear but he went ahead with his talk. ''If someone wants to fault me for that, I wouldn't blame them,'' he told the Post. Rather, a Texas native, was not paid for his appearance, which raised about $20,000 for the Travis County Democratic Party. Other hosts of the event included Scott Ozmun, the county Democratic chairman, and Robin Rather, the anchor's daughter who's considering running for Austin mayor. No disciplinary action is anticipated for Rather, said CBS News spokeswoman Sandy Genelius. ''No one feels worse about this than Dan and nobody feels more strongly about CBS News standards than Dan,'' she said. Conservative groups already suspicious of Rather were buzzing on Wednesday. The story was prominently featured on RatherBiased.com, a Web site that collects statements uttered by Rather. Brent Bozell, president of the conservative watchdog group Media Research Center, called on Rather to apologize on the air. ''Without a genuine and sincere apology to the viewing public, Rather's lips will forever drip with hypocrisy,'' Bozell said. ''As of now, his stain covers the entire CBS News division.'' There are no plans for Rather to address the issue on the air, said his spokeswoman, Kim Akhtar. *********************************************************
Oh no, of course not!
And you gave us a hard time for properly naming him as a worthless and obviously biased newsreader. mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:54 PM Hey flattop,
"Are you 100% happy with your new president MAV? Not disappointed a wee bit?"
I especially like it when he *bleeps* on the reporters.
mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Apr 01 - 03:48 PM I hardly care which one of them got more votes in Florida. I consider the electoral college to be a farce anyway. I think they should really have split the term. Bush for a year, Gore for a year, Bush's wife (whose name I cannot recall...) for a year, and Tipper for a year. Now that would be something to watch, wouldn't it? Spread the pain around, I say. Why should one poor sucker have to swallow all of it? Carol - I do not consider a duel with grapes to be a very practical idea, but I'm considering it... John - you're dead right! How could I have forgotten Microsoft???? I am chagrined! Humiliated! Humbled! Devastated! Thrown off my stride! Inconvenienced! Carol - Remember when Bill & Opus ran for Pres & VP? Their slogan was "This Time...Why Not The Worst???" I loved that! They didn't win, however. Reagan did...thus realizing the very concept Bill & Opus had themselves proposed! Ironical, isn't it? Too bad Reagan was already married, or he could have wedded Maggie Thatcher and founded an American-British New World Order to endure for a thousand years. We could have nuked the commies while we still had the chance. Now it's too late. They've all gone to the free market economy. There's hardly anyone out there worth nuking anymore. Oh, Maggie was married too, I think, but she WORE THE PANTS!!! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition! :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 05 Apr 01 - 04:01 PM Little Hawk,
Practical, no. But it could be pretty interesting... you, troll, Skeptic, and me, and two pounds of grapes. Think about it. Maby we can even get Maggie Thatcher to join in. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Apr 01 - 06:36 PM Ummmm....but whose side would she be on? I have no wish to repeat the calamitous follies of certain Argentinian generals. Instead, add Hesperis and another 3 pounds of grapes, and you've got a deal! And we can get Matt R to be the announcer and do the play-by-play! - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: GUEST,re:MAV the pest Date: 05 Apr 01 - 07:24 PM Returning to Muddie as I occasionaly, I am beginning to wonder does this person actualy play or sing or do anything even vaguely musical? Or is it yet another Ditto Head recieving a salary from the Fat Slob Club? It is now inevitable that there will be civil proceedings brought against DBT which removed Jewish seniors and altered African American voter records in the state of Florida. If any of you were around during the Pinchet years you will probably recall the tactics of these neonatzis. It seems as if having exported them to Chile and some other coutries in the past where they were applied and tested, now are being used here in the USA.
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 05 Apr 01 - 11:06 PM GUEST,re:MAV the pest,
Is that you, Greg F.? If you dislike him so much, why do you keep baiting him? He didn't create those problems. He just has an opinion on them that you don't like. Maybe you would get better results if you put your energies into political activism in a context in which you could really make a difference, rather than in a music forum.
It seems like if you guys were going to solve any problems here, you would have done it long before round nine of this thread. Don't you think? Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Troll Date: 06 Apr 01 - 12:53 AM I'll run it by Skeptic and get back to you. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 06 Apr 01 - 01:24 AM Sounds good to me, troll. And Little Hawk, I just don't think I could bring myself to sling grapes at hesperis. Maybe if you could get her to say something bad about Bill the Cat... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Greg F. Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:33 AM No, Carol, it ain't me- I SIGN my posts, darlin. But thanks for the cheap shot & innuendo. Much appreciated- and illuminating. Does it surprise you to find out there's more than two or three people that think this Mav is an asshole? Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Troll Date: 06 Apr 01 - 09:09 AM Carol, actually I was more thinking of peeling the grapes for you whilst mumuring how lovely your accordian playing is in your shell-like ear, but, hey!, I'm up for a food fight if that's what you want. Just let me know if it's overalls or tuxedo. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 06 Apr 01 - 04:53 PM Sorry Greg F. It was the use of the word "it" when refering to a person that made me think of you. I've not seen anyone else do that here. If I made an incorrect assumption, I hope you will accept my apologies.
troll, I must admit that you're idea sounds much more tranquil than a food fight.
Sorry Little Hawk. You'll just have to sling grapes at hesperis yourself. I'm going to be having my shell-like ear murmered into instead. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 06 Apr 01 - 06:25 PM Dear Gregf:
"Returning to Muddie as I occasionaly,"
As you "occasionaly"(sp)...what?
"I am beginning to wonder does this person actualy play or sing or do anything even vaguely musical?"
Yes. You?
Bushwhacked-NINE! hardly sounds like a musical thread to me, or can you make the case?
"Or is it yet another Ditto Head recieving a salary from the Fat Slob Club?"
No, but I could lose 20 lbs, thanks for your concern.
"It is now inevitable that there will be civil proceedings brought against DBT which removed Jewish seniors and altered African American voter records in the state of Florida."
How many "altered African American voter records" are there to remove? Are they "altered" like Michael Jackson? or.....you know.......transgender
Actually the democrat controlled precincts in those disputed areas of Florida removed the voters from the lists, maybe THEY should have double checked. The agency just provided the names.
You weren't under the impression that the state controlled local elections were you?
"If any of you were around during the Pinchet years you will probably recall the tactics of these neonatzis. It seems as if having exported them to Chile and some other coutries in the past where they were applied and tested, now are being used here in the USA"
I don't remember "Pinchet" myself, is he related to Pinochio?
"neonatzis" Is that like Neonatal care givers for the wives of the Gestapo and SS? We've been over this crap before.
The DBT are Nazis? (National SOCIALIST Workers Party) The Nazis were not freedom loving followers of the US Constitution but rather violent rivals of their fellow socialists, the communists.
"I SIGN my posts"
Maybe...but you never say anything in them, just insults, ad hominem attacks and petty slander.
"Does it surprise you to find out there's more than two or three people that think this Mav is an asshole?" (See!)
No, nor does it surprise me that you have been unable or too lazy to refute anything I've posted but rather chosen to behave like which you called me above.
I maintain you hate American conservatives worse than the murdering communists, in fact I'll bet you love them and would defend them in conversation.
Check the news today, you can find Garp D**khe@d and Dianne Fineswine apologising to the Tieneman Square mass murderers for something we didn't do.
Your turn Gregf, use all the paper you need.
mav out
PS Hitlary announces she's not running for President in 2004. That leaves you with Jesse Jackass, algor, Tom Da Ash hole and Garp. That ought to be a great debate.
mav out two times
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 06 Apr 01 - 06:35 PM Why can't we just have John McCain? I think I would probably vote for him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 06 Apr 01 - 07:15 PM Dear Carol, "Why can't we just have John McCain?"
You CAN have him.
I've been saying he's not a Republican for a long time.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he defected.
Jeffords, Chaffe, Specter and a couple of others could get out too.
I'll trade you all those for Zel Miller and James Traficant.
Maybe we could get Danpatmoy (Moynahan) to run again (as an R).
We need to get the right sides on the right sides. Doncha think?
mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:08 PM Not familiar with Zel Miller, but you can definitely have Traficant.
But I'd probably vote for McCain whether he was a republican or a democrat. His party affiliation isn't important to me. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:24 PM Dear Carol, Me neither, but I think he's dirty, that's why he's so hot on CFR.
Actually I wouldn't really wish him on you, he'd be best as an independent.
He drew a lot of unenrolled and democrat vote in the states that allowed them to vote in the last Republican primary, but not a lot of R votes.
That should pretty much tell the story.
mav out |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:36 PM Hey MAV...
What makes you think I'm a democrat? ;-)
Actually I'm not wedded to any party. I'm only registered as a democrat so I can vote in the primaries (a requirement in West Virginia). I vote my conscience regardless of the candidate's party affiliation. I guess that makes me an independent (at least I was until it became an actual party. Now I can't even call myself that.). Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Ebbie Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:37 PM mav, your wordplay is quite typical of third graders- did your emotional development somehow get stuck there? Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Greg F. Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:48 PM Don't pick on the developmentally challenged, Ebbie- just think of him as a "special child". And best ignored. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Apr 01 - 09:00 PM Now, people...temper, temper...let's not get nasty. Back to fun topics. I have discussed the grapes with Hesperis and she likes the idea. Sorry I can offer no strong opinion on John McCain at this point... I really do feel sorry that you Americans don't know Jean Chretien better, because by God you would then have something to rant and rave about! He is the very epitome of the onetime classic comedic cliche of a raspy-voiced and not too bright French Canadian from a small backwoods town in Quebec. You gotta see and hear it to believe it. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: kendall Date: 06 Apr 01 - 09:27 PM John McCain lost the South Carolina primary because he had the bad judgement and the balls to say what he thought of Pat Robertson. Not a good idea in the bible belt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 06 Apr 01 - 10:26 PM Dear Carol, "What makes you think I'm a democrat? ;-)"
I'm sorry, hope I didn't insult you. Glad to hear the good news.
Ebbie;
"did your emotional development somehow get stuck there?"
That's it??? The best you can do? Rebuttal???
gregf:
"just think of him as a "special child"
Like I said, an expected empty post. Do you ever string together a complete paragraph or are you limited one sentence insults?
I really get tired of you extremophiles and your dextrorphobic attitudes.
It does me proud to see the LSCs of the world whack out including the latest outburst by the bozo to the North mentioned by Little Hawk, the PM.......Jack Cretin!!!
PREPARE TO REALLY WHACK....
BUSHWHACKED AGAIN!
You're getting a TAX CUT!!!!
WHETHER YOU WANT IT OR NOT!!!
mav out
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: kendall Date: 06 Apr 01 - 10:35 PM That doofus keeps saying "It's your money" well DUH! sure it's our money. It's also our Social Security, it's our medicare, it's our 4 trillion dollar debt, what does he think taxes are for anyway? They are for paying for the services we demand from Washington! I dont see how anyone with a teaspoon full of brains can say there is a surplus as long as we have that kind of national debt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: CarolC Date: 06 Apr 01 - 10:35 PM Wow, MAV. No, I'm not insulted. But do you have to rub things in so hard? (I'm not a Bush supporter, either.) Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Ebbie Date: 06 Apr 01 - 10:52 PM mav, FWIW, I'm not angry- and wasn't trying for a rebuttal. My question is a legitmate one though, don't you think? If you've been around little kids, you too have probably noticed the syndrome. It's a stage where they think it's the height of sophistication to build on words and names, especially with scatological refinements. Not to worry, though; most of us outgrow the urge. In the words of someone we all know and love, feel free to PM me. Eb |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: GUEST,re:tax cuts Date: 06 Apr 01 - 11:32 PM Read today on a email newsletter - X33 - is ending, no more reseach despite being near completion. For those who do not know what this is, simply a far better way to send stuff and people into space and bring them back again. It is a low operating cost small Shuttle. Course I am not saying it was axed because the Bushites want more BMW's, Sail Boats and Swiss Vacations but I bet that is what the errrr Liberal Press would say if they reported it. The names list of the folk now without a job is a very long one! For my part I would gladly pay MORE tax to keep these projects and not spend my money on imported junk or a flashy lifestyle. I read in the messages of the Financials on the Net one poster regrets voting for the Bush ticket adding that not only have they messed up the Stock Market now they are messing up international relations as well, but notice how MALL WART and it's very influential Lobby turns this into small potatoes. If it were not for that there would be a very nasty crisis. The Chinese need the exports more than the glory so I suppose they will relent after big public protests and the required hand wringing. BTW I do play the Guitar and love to sing so I am not another MAV!
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 07 Apr 01 - 12:58 AM Kendall,
The surplus is revenue collected in excess of spending on everything including those things you mentioned.
"what does he think taxes are for anyway?"
He thinks taxes are for democrats to use as bait for buying votes from people they promise to but never help.
He also knows the only people "helped" are those self-serving do-nothing employees of deliberately flawed programs.
Since they're going to collect around $33 Trillion in the next 10 years, $1.25 Trillion is NOTHING!
The likelyhood is that due to the tax cut, federal revenue will increase, it has in the past. Ebbie,
"I'm not angry- and wasn't trying for a rebuttal.... your wordplay is quite typical of third graders......they think it's the height of sophistication to build on words and names, especially with scatological refinements"
I have no idea what you're talking about unless it's this....."Jesse Jackass, algor, Tom Da Ash hole and Garp"
Well since those guys don't post here and are public figures, they're fair game. I've certainly had much worse leveled at me by people on this forum, not to mention "Bush shite" etc.
Of course it's childish, they're childish. The four mentioned are all criminals and if you watch them in action, you can see them mugging it up for the folks back home and then ripping them off as soon as they're not looking. Of course Jackson shakes people down right out in the open.
"one poster regrets voting for the Bush ticket adding that not only have they messed up the Stock Market now they are messing up international relations as well"
All inside of 60 days huh? The market has been tanking for 9 months, and everybody knows Greenspan caused the current fiasco by jerking around with the interest rates.
We shall see internationally. He's not backing down from the murdering communists, he's on the right track.
"For my part I would gladly pay MORE tax to keep these projects and not spend my money on imported junk or a flashy lifestyle"
Please understand, you are still free to give your entire income to the government if you wish. I seriously hope you will consider doiong so.
I believe there should only be two tax rates, 3% for conservatives, 65% for liberals.
mav out |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Skeptic Date: 07 Apr 01 - 12:04 PM At least W's consistant. Sigh 3-6-01 The Bush administration and Secretary Evans, chose not to correct the undercount of more than 3 million Americans in the 2000 Census. The Democrats believe that every person, like every vote should be counted. The Republicans clearly do not..A disproportionate percentage of people of color, children and the urban poor are not included in this count. 3-14-01 Bush's senate Republicans defeated a measure yesterday that would have kept medicare surplus from being spent on anything other than Medicare, or Debt reduction, making the money available for GWB to fund his massive tax cuts. 3-14-01 "You can't say one thing and do amother" GWBUSH, Orlando Sentinel 10-31-00 Bush broke his Explicit Promise to reduce harmful emmissions to appease right wing contributors. He reversed his position in a letter yesterday, to Senators Helms,Craig, Hagle, and Pat Roberts, calling the campaign promise, "a mistake", his actions undercut his EPA Administrator, in the face of settled climate change science to help out his biggest campaign contributors, the most far-right elements of his party and polluters. The impact of floods, droughts and deadly heatwaves and crop failures will have crippling consequences on the US, the world and the economy. 3-16-01 Bush takes his "dispassionate neglet" to America's public housing.(The Public Housing Drug Elimination Program) His decision to decrease funding (only half of the 310M for security, hightr utilities and other operational costs) in order to get Religious groups involved in neighborhoods, is another example of Republicans longterm insensitivity toward persons living in public housing. 3-23-01 Bush Breaks Another Promise: Plans Cuts in Child Care and Child abuse Prevention.Bush's promise "to leave no child behind" now sounds like other notable Bush betrayals, like the promise to reduce greenhouse gas emmissions. He plans to cut grants that help low income families afford child care by 200 million: child abuse prevention by over $15 million, and completely eliminate the $20 million "early learning fund" Also, considerating large cuts in the $235 Million programs that train pediatricians and other doctors in childrens hospitals. About 900,000 children suffer from abuse or neglect each year. *apparently Bush and the Republicans believe that EVERY CHILD SHOULD BE BORN, but once they enter this world, they will have to find some other way to survive, that they won't get any help from the federal government! 3-15-01 Bush announced that National Monuments have potential for drilling. He said the administration will look at ALL PUBLIC LANDS for energy 3-17-01 Bush administration filed a motion today, to postpone the date when one-third of our national forests would become off limits to developement. The move opend the door for negotiations between the Bush Administration and TIMBER INTERESTS.* big surprise! This act would overrule Clintons Roadless Forests Designations. 3-20-01 Bush announces he will block new rules limiting ARSENIC LEVELS in water. The new rules would have slashed acceptable levels of arsenic by 80% bringing into complience with codes already agreed upon by both the World Health Organization and the European Union and would have upgraded the arsenic standard for the first time in 60 years. 3-21-01 The Bush Administration blocked Interior Department Rules, suspending regulations for public lands that would have made it more difficult for mining companies to escape financial liability for violations in anti-pollutiion laws. 3-22-01 Bush's Federal agencies blocked today, an initiative to help save the Pacific Salmon, a Clinton initiative. 1-22-01 "I expect every member of this administration to stay well within the boundries that define legal and ethical conduct. This means avoiding EVEN THE APPEARENCE of problems" President G.W.Bush Bush-appointed Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, has decided NOT to divest himself of $100 Million in holdings of ALCOA (aluminum) a company he used to run. Bush is taking the economy into another Bush Resession, but his appointee's unusual stock arrangement, has unlimited growth potential. Last year alone, O'Neill made $50 Million in pay and stock options from Alcoa. As Treasury Secretary, O'Neill will be called on to set policy on a wide range of vital issues, including taxes, trade, and the strength of the dollar, that can influence Alcoa's and his own Profits. No matter how honest O'Neill is, the credibility of US economic policy is at stake, and there exists the appearence of a conflict of interests. *it is imposible to not consider his own personal position when setting policy. 3-22-01 Bush Says No to Bipartisan Patients' Rights Bill Because it's too Costly-*For his Big Donors. Bush said yesterday that he would VETO the bill, that his biggest supporters, including major employers groups, insurers, HMO's and the Business Roundtable, all of whom have been lobbying heavily. In his zeal to pay back his donors and oppose ANYTHING John McCain supports, GWB would rather let the bill die than to do anything truely beneficial for the American people. 3-20-01 Continuing his Texas record, Bush will carry on with Judicial appointments that do not reflect the make up of America and has gone so far as to RECIND 10 apointees for judgeship that Clinton submitted. Bush rejected Judge Gregory, a African American, the first to sit on the bench on the 4th US court of Appeals, and BOTH Virginia REPUBLICAN senators approved his appointment on a permenent basis. Continuing with his TEXAS policy of appointments , the breakdown was 77% White 13%Hispanic and 9% Black, although Texas population is broken down 57% White 28%Hispanic and 11% African American. "It is important that Bush use his Power od Judicial Appointments as a chance to create EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW, and not to turn the judiciary into another conservative think tank" 3-21-01 Bush Blows Off Electoral Reform. Bush returns to Florida as Administration refuses Extra Money for Federal Elections Committee. He refused a request fot 5.5 Million over two years for its office of election administration, the only federal office with power to address how elections are run. "George W Bush , Jeb Bush and the Republican party are at it again with their double talk, two step strategy. On the one hand, they send out K Harris, to say they are in favor of reform, but on the other hand they refuse to fund REAL efforts to reform the system on a State or National level." They not only turned down the request, but it also askes the FEC to CUT $1.4 Million from the $42.8 Million budget."Although Bush called for a repairing the tattered system that PUT him in the whitehouse, he rejected its first FORMAL opportunity to help fix the problems. 2-9-01 Bush to close Office of AIDS national Policy and the Office on the presidents ONE AMERICA, and transfer their responsibilities somewhere else. "Closing the Whitehouse offices created by President Clinton, specifically to fight the spread of AIDS and improve Race Relations, couldn't come at a worse time." The Post reported a recent SURGE in AIDS infections in the US and internationally."Discrimination continues to be a serious problem in America and closing these offices sends the wrong message" 2-26-01 Bush tax plan: Cut Homeless aid and Cops to pay for tax cut for the Wealthy.Proposed cuts of $1 Billion to the Justice Dept. Will impact drug inforcement, and law enforcement hiring community police officers. The plan calls for cuts in the 50 programs for the homeless.Bush also wants to abolish COPS program and turn it into block grants Regards John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 01 - 12:28 PM And yet, in these darkened moments, When the soul cries out for redemption And the heart grows faint upon crumbs of hope Do I sense the dread approach of an as yet unthought of monstrosity A vague and formless shadow That looms up out of the falling darkness As vain polemicists tilt and wave Their tired lances at the doors of empty cathedrals And then a creaking voice doth proclaim In tones of chaotic reverence..." ...."Bushwacked-TEN!!!"
For the Center cannot hold. And it is nearly upon us... :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Greg F. Date: 07 Apr 01 - 12:39 PM So, what did you expect? As 'Spaw sez, he's a Dangerous Moron. Or, rather, his handlers are dangerous- they have made clear throughout their careers exactly what their agenda is. And Dumbya is simply a figurehead. Want to feel REALLY bad? Remember: "You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet!!" To quore Dick Fariña, It was the red, white and blue makin' war on the poor Blind mother justice on a pile of manure." Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: kendall Date: 07 Apr 01 - 12:39 PM MAV, there is no way that you or anyone else can support this "tax cut". It is based on 3% growth. There is no growth. It's smoke and mirrors! Even if the money really existed, (which it doesn't) there is still the 4 trillion dollar debt. It's like the crazy aunt in the attic, you know she's there, but, you refuse to talk about her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: GUEST,re:Getting a tax cut whether you want it or Date: 07 Apr 01 - 01:21 PM Apparently anyone who still has a job when G Hoover Bush's reforms are complete will be slightly better off. They can buy a new water hose for the yard! They might need that too as Utilities are nearly treble the price they used be. However for those who do not have a job, including DITTO Heads, the tax cuts are no use at all. On a happier note, the Mexicans now feeling sorry for their American neighbors are now having second thoughts about the so called 'Agricultural' provisions - especially where the houses where they used stay are becomming so fire prone. So it seems the 30s are upon us again despite the valiant efforts of a well intentioned but totaly misinformed Wall Street. The Bushies want MicroSoft etc- at their price not Bill Gates', so it seems the old guard, i.e people who's parents or grandparents used own America will wrench control of everything from Beer Distribution to Silicon, but I could be wrong. If you have Stocks that means the Bushies will eraze the value until they are worth virtually nothing then they will buy them from you, doing you, by the way, a big favor Pal! Right wing? Hardly they have yet to send you, or your brother, father or sister, mother etc to a concentration camp. Course this is already being arranged in certain states where there are in place wierd laws and Private Custodial Corporations. The reader should already know which these are, all Republican ......Another policy now slightly dangerous, War, would have the same effect, you dead, but could so easily destroy everything including the entire Planet, even GW knows this! So it will be that last thing they do when all else fails. So in effect they want to take your MONEY, your JOB, your PROPERTY, your FAMILY and last your LIFE. The service workers are to be brought in from Mexico @3 bucks an hour and here is the rub - these people will have no rights at all, none. So if they cause any problems - adios! Dear MAV I do not want or need a Tax Cut. Anyone who has more than they need already does not unless they are greedy! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Ebbie Date: 07 Apr 01 - 01:38 PM There is one little window glowing in the distance: he may react when there is enough outcry. Last week's backpedaling regarding the administration's decision to discontinue testing for salmonella in public schools may be significant. We need to flood the White House and our congressional people and various agencies with our comments, complaints and suggestions. We need to apply pressure- and keep it there. Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: Skeptic Date: 08 Apr 01 - 12:27 PM Ebbie, I won't hold my breath. Remember the "back pedaling on the dissolution of the White House AID office? Per the Washington Post, apparently theonly thing left is a website and a staffless office. Technically, W didn't lie. The office exists. Just seems to be lacking staff. Regards John
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: kendall Date: 08 Apr 01 - 12:57 PM I have already contacted my senators, both republican syncophants, and I told them that I will do everything in my power to see them defeated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked-NINE! From: MAV Date: 08 Apr 01 - 05:40 PM Booga booga!
mav out
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