Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers

Subject: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:04 AM

Hoping some or one of you can help me. Rick's thread on who are we related to, got me looking at a semi-famous ancestor, Sir John Yeamans who was a governor of Barbados, then in the Carolinas.

Anyway, my uncle had him traced back to Bristol, England. This evening I came across an article which said he was really Sir John Foster of Yeamans. Do any of you know what that might mean? Is there a "Yeamans" town or something that is near or part of Bristol? From all the accounts after that, it appears he just became John Yeamans, which later was changed to Youmans, my mother's maiden name.

Anyhow, thanks for any enlightenment!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Les from Hull
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:15 AM

I can't find a town or village of that name on my mapping program. It's possible that Yeamans could be the name of a house or an estate. Perhaps some Bristolian Mudcatter can help.

Les

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Hyperabid
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:17 AM

I lived in Bristol for over ten years and have no knowledge of such a palce however I'm just off to have a look in my UK Road atlas.

Hyper

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Hyperabid
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:23 AM

I can find no listing for Yeaman as a place name, but I believe it is Scots Kelt in origin and there are a number of street up north bearing the name.

I append a list for your interest.

YEAMAN PLACE, EDINBURGH,EH11
YEAMAN SHORE, DUNDEE,DD1
YEAMAN STREET, CARNOUSTIE,ANGUS,DD7
YEAMAN STREET, FORFAR,ANGUS,DD8
YEAMAN STREET, RATTRAY,BLAIRGOWRIE,PERTHSHIRE,PH10
YEAMAN STREET, STOKE-ON-TRENT,ST4
YEAMAN'S LANE, DUNDEE,DD2

Hope this helps...

Hyper

YEAMANS ALLEY, DUNDEE,DD2

YEAMANS COURT, DUNDEE,DD2

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Lanfranc
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:27 AM

I can find no trace of a place name Yeamans, but there is a town called Yeovil, a River Yeo and another town called Yatton (possibly originally Yeotown?) all in the old county of Somerset (now Avon), which is adjacent to Bristol.

A yeoman was a man who held and cultivated a small estate worth more than 40 shillings a year, and was thus qualified for jury service. The word also described a servant in a royal or noble house, or a member of a group of fighting men who could be called on by the king. The Yeomen of the Guard or Yeomen Warders are better known as "Beefeaters", as in the Tower of London, and are part of the sovereign's bodyguard.

In Middle English, I believe that "yeo" indicated a man who lived by a river. It could be that the River Yeo is tautology!

Don't know whether this helps, but it was fun researching!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:35 AM

Yes, like Trent, Avon and Thames, Yeo is a tortology, all meaning river.

And those called upon to fight for the King were Yeomanry Regiments, as in the Queen's Own Dorset Yeomanry, a cavalry regiment that fought in both world wars, the Boer, the Crimean and the Peninsula wars. There are about 5 members left. Somerset also had a yeomanry force, but I can't remember the full and proper title.

Do you have dates for this John Foster, a death or birthplace? He may be traceable in the Family Records Centre, especially if he became famous.

LTS

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Hyperabid
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:42 AM

Regretably we have a parish by parish and county by county registration system and there is limited centralisation of information but you might want to try...

Society of Genealogists
14 Charterhouse Buildings, Goswell Road, London EC1M 7BA Tel: [phone]
St Catherine's Indexes to 1920
Located about 400 yards north of the Barbican (turn left out of Barbican tube)
Mon to Fri from 10:00 each day
Sat 10:00 to 18:00
The SoG has recently obtained the indices to the miscellaneous returns.

Hyper

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:47 AM

kat - I'm in Bristol. There's a John Foster who used to be Mayor in 1483. Too early? there was also another Mayor who went by the name of Yeamans, first name Robert. I'm taking a visiting friend on a walk around town tomorrow - I'll keep my eye out for anything useful. If you do track him down to a particular place and would like info or photos sent to you, let me know. Meantime, here's a web page with some info.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 06:07 AM

Sir John Yeamans is mentioned here, his father being a Robert Yeamans. There was a merchant called Robert Yeamans in Bristol around that time. He's mentioned here near the top of the page (he met a nasty end but was quite a breeder). Anyway, it turns out that indeed he was Sir John's father (see here. It doesn't mention Yeamans as a place, but I'll have a poke around and see what else comes up. I expect you already have all this info, but it makes for fascinating reading!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Grab
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 06:15 AM

Lanfranc, for "yeoman" the dictionary turns up:-

"A farmer who cultivates his own land, especially a member of a former class of small freeholding farmers in England" - source "Middle English yoman, perhaps from Old English geaman, from Old Frisian gaman, villager".

Is it possible he was "Sir John Foster, Yeoman", ie. that the "yeaman" part denoted he was originally a farmer?

Another thought - could the name be a variation on "manse" or "manor", which would indicate his house/estate? Maybe "Yeo Manse"?

Graham.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: IanC
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 06:47 AM

Hi

If someone is described as "of somewhere" it denotes a place where he was associated. Since there is no village or town of this name, it was probably a manor. My house and the associated manor is, for example, named after the Kirby family who lived at the manor originally named Gasselyns (thus Kirby or Kyrkeby of Gasselyns). You might find it worthwhile looking in Domesday!

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Les from Hull
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 07:27 AM

I see that Robert Yeamans tried a similar trick to one we had in Hull at the same time - that of betraying the town to the King. He met the same end as the bloke who tried it in Hull. That Governor of Hull was replaced by another who turns out to be Ickle Dorritt's great, great-something-or-other.

Kat - the title Baronet is hereditary. Mostly you got the title by giving some money to James I, but that entitled you to be called Sir Bufton Tufton, Bart (the Bart stands for baronet, not for Bart Simpson who won't stand for anything). So, where's the money?

Those Bristol merchants with links to the Barbadoes (as they were called then) were usually in the sugar trade (and unfortunately the Slave Trade as well).

Another reason for somebody changing their family name was if some bloke only had daughters, the husband of number one daughter might change his surname so that he could inherit (it being a condition of the will).

Hope some of this helps

Les

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 10:11 AM

"of" may normally mean place, but it could possibly also mean relationship to a person or family.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 11:04 AM

You guys are just GREAT!! Thank you! I got so excited, I stayed up until 4am, looking at all of the stuff a search on google came up with. I did see several of the things you've linked to Fibula, but not all and I didn't understand what I was looking at, until now.

This is the first thing I found: St. Nichlas Abbey and, indeed, Les, my question exactly, "where is the money?"**BG** I also found one reference which called him an "English nobleman of" tattered or mislaid "fortunes." (Can't remember the exact adjective.)

That first link says he killed Berrringer in a duel and then married his widow, but the following gives a slightly different, probably truest telling of what happened:

The old architecture of Barbados is fascinating and many examples are found in the plantation houses around the island.

One such is St. Nicholas Abbey. Built around the 1660s, the abbey is a "gem of a house" nestled in the hills of St. Peter. It is one of the parish's major tourist attractions. The Abbey is a "Jacobean house", that is, a house built in British territories between the reigns of James I and Charles II, in the early and mid-seventeenth Century.

There are only three of that period's houses left in the Western Hemisphere, Nicholas Abbey and Drax Hall in Barbados, and Bacon's Castle in Virginia. The Barbadian houses are both older than Bacon's Castle. St. Nicholas Abbey has a distinctive roofline: elegant curvilinear gables at the front and the sides, the tall ornate brick chimneys, and graceful roof sculptures (decorative finials) on the apices, and in the valleys between the gables. The Abbey has a very tall, dignified shape and a rich pattern of plaster quoins around the windows and at the building's corners.

Many of these features were borrowed from Dutch architecture, especially the gables. At the time, Anglo-Dutch trade was very strong, and the British tended to copy continental styles.

Benjamin Berringer may have brought the plans back from England and had the Abbey built exactly to them – chimneys, fireplaces and all.

Other unique features are the huge Dutch kitchen chimney. Originally the kitchen was a separate structure to reduce fire hazards. It was later joined to the main house.

To the south is a well-preserved design of a medieval herb garden. It consists of an intricate design of tiny beds, perfectly preserved...but without the herbs.

Beyond is a walled courtyard with a pair of matching outhouses on the left (bath and toilet), roofed with original clay tiles that are finely preserved after more than 300 years. Early this century, the outhouses were updated to a bathroom wing.

A Georgian arcaded portico and sash windows were subsequently added when Sir John Gay Alleyne acquired it in 1746. He was Speaker of the House of Assembly for 30 years.

The Chinese Chippendale staircase also dates from 1746 and it is unique to the Caribbean.

The interior mouldings and other decoration may have been original or part of Sir John's improvements.

Intricately carved mouldings enhance the cornices, main beams and arched doorways over which lions' heads are placed, while the cedar panelling of the front rooms dates from the late 19th Century.

Among the house's treasures are a magnificent 200-year-old grandfather clock, a collection of Wedgwood portrait medallions, and a bed bearing the coronet of Marie-Louise, Empress of France, the second wife of Napoleon Bonaparte.

The property also contains a Victorian water pump, drip-stones, Spanish jars, a boiling house with the sugar plant from Fairfield Plantation, a sugar windmill and a smaller water-mill, a forest of giant mahogany trees and majestic cabbage-palms.

More than 330 years of history are found in St. Nicholas Abbey and each year, visitors trek to Barbados to enjoy the beauty of this treasure.

The tale surrounding the earliest owners of St. Nicholas Abbey makes for intriguing reading.

Nicholas Plantation was the property of Benjamin Berringer and John Yeamans, both planters and seemingly partners in real estate speculation.

As the story goes, Berringer was married to Margaret Foster, a clergyman's daughter, but he spent much of his time in England between 1652 and '56, leaving his wife and daughter alone in Barbados.

He returned to the island in 1656 and built the Abbey. In 1661 he was killed in Speightstown, possibly poisoned by his partner Yeamans – one theory goes, for Yeamans married the widow Berringer and lived at Nicholas Abbey. From all reports, he was an opportunist who dabbled in political intrigue, changing loyalties from the Royalist to Cromwellian and back to Royalist as it suited his purposes.

Eventually he became the leader of a group called the Barbadian Adventurers, who explored the Carolinas; and apparently, Yeamans went on to become the Governor of Carolina.

Quite an ancestor, eh!? I did find reference in my uncle's notes and online that Robert, his dad?, I think, was listed as Mayor of Bristol in 1669, but I don't think that could be his dad because that is after my Sir John died.

It is also interesting that the one reference I found said he was Sir John Foster of Yeamans and Berringer, the partner whom he killed, was married to a Foster. I had never heard any Foster connection at all until last night.

It looks like my Sir John Yeamans lived from 1610-1674, my uncle found his willl dated and written in 1671 in Columbia, S.C. According to my uncle's notes, Sir John's father was John Yeamans, 1590-1645, Bristol, England, married to Blanche Germain who died in 1647.

My uncle's notes are hard to read, but it looks as though my Sir John may have had a son, Robert.

Anyway, don't know where the Foster of comes from, but I will folow up on your leads and I do thank you all for your help. This is so much fun...all the time spent looking is worth it when you run across something like this.

My son-in-law from Antigua and I have always joked that my ancestors probably owned some of his. While it is unlikely, probably, since they were on different islands and his family stayed in the West Indies, I also found out, last night, that my Sir John took 200 slaves to the Carolinas with him. Not a worthy thing to note, but of course to be expected for those times.

Thanks, again!

kat

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 11:08 AM

Fibula, thank you very much for your offer. Please don't go out of your way, but if you do find anything I'd love to know more. I am confused about my uncle's handwritten notes and as to who Sir John Yeamans in Barbadoes' father was. I thought it likely it was Robert, but my uncle seems to have thought it was this other John, married to Blanche, unless, that was my John's grandfather. He has three John Yeamans written down, so it gets confusing. I have also left some queries on a couple of genealogy websites, so, we'll see what turns up!

My grandparent's would be scndalised at some of this info!

Thanks, again!

kat

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: wildlone
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 03:32 PM

As an aside to this, the town of Yeovil and the river it stands on used to be called the Ivel and the next town down was Ivelchester.
I know that in October 1642 the town was called Ivel as I have a copy of the pamphlet great news from Sherborne printed at that time. I cannot find when the name was changed.
dave

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: wildlone
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 03:42 PM

kat have you seen this site? Click here
dave

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 07:06 PM

Oh boy, Dave, thanks! I'd only seen a couple of them, not the whole line up! I hope I get some sleep tonight!**BG**

kat

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 01 - 11:56 AM

I think the derivation from Yoeman is the most likely; many English surnames derived from people's occupation/ title or from some local feature

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Fiolar
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 05:54 AM

The word "Yeo" has several differant connotations. According to Adrian Room's "Dictionary of Place Names" most of the Devon Yeos have a name that represents the Old English "ea" meaning river. However it could also come from Old English "eow" meaning "Yew." To confuse further it could also derive from Celtic meaing "forked" eg where two rivers join. You pays your money.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 11:25 AM

The kindred connection site wants $$$ to actually show you anything..for some free searching try

http://www.gendex.com/ or The LDS Database ..LOTS of names I just followed one branch of my family back to 1668

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 12:36 PM

Thnaks, Fiolar!

Bill, I only paid KindredKonnections $5 after checking out the free ones. Frankly, I am surprised at my Mormon relatives, as it looks as though they haven't entered much of anything on the LDS site. I hadn't see the other one, though, so i will check it out. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 05:56 PM

Whooeee, looks like you're on a roll....

Interestingly enough, the Drax estate still exists in parts of Dorset. Whether it is the same Drax family or not, I don't know, but they were still there in WWI......

LTS

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 07:14 PM

There's also a place called Drax in Yorkshire

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: wes.w
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 09:30 AM

As perhaps the nearest Catter to Yeovil (7 miles), I'd suggest there is nothing down this far that I can see any connection with placename wise. But 'Foster Yeoman' are a large stone quarrying company between Frome and Shepton Mallet, Somerset not far south of Bristol.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 10:55 AM

Thanks, wesw....this has all been so interesting. I thank you all for your suggestions and am tracking down more info each day with the help you've all given. My family are amazed!**BG**

Much appreciated,

kat

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 05:50 PM

We had a firm called Drax Aerospace open up for a while near here, a source of considerable curiosity to my friend and me, as it seemed very unlikely.

Penny

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 02:39 PM

Pedants corner
Yeoman
I was told by an archery expert that lonbows were made of yew (it buggered my song that had them in ash). As a result the longbowmen were called yewmen which corrupted to Yeomen or a Yeoman.
yeomen were called upon to practice archery at the village butts on Sundays.
presumeably they were given cultivation rights in return for being on 24 hour call.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Place Name Query for UKers
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 02:48 PM

So, Mr. Red, was Yeamans mentioned as another variation? That is what my Youmans came from, apparently.

thanks, I've always loved yew trees:-)

kat