Help: Effect of Famine on Irish Folk Music

Subject: Famine
From: GUEST,Sean
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 06:08 PM

I am trying to research the effect that the Potato Famine had on Irish music. I'm having a little trouble finding information on it. If anyone can help me, I'd be very appreciative.

Subject: RE: Help: Famine
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 06:12 PM

Well if nothing else it certainly did disseminate the music to faraway places, as the hungry Irish emmigrated.

Alex

Subject: RE: Help: Famine
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 08:57 PM

It's an ill wind indeed that blows no good... I love Irish music.

Subject: RE: Help: Famine
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 09:58 PM

My first thought was The Famine Song, and then I put @famine in the search box......whhoooeee! Some of them aren't exactly about The Famine, but there are lot to choose from.

Subject: RE: Help: Famine
From: GUEST,Brían
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 01:57 AM

I n the "road from Connemara" songs and stories told by Seosamh Ó hÉanaí, Joe claims that the area he grew up in, Carna on the west coast of Ireland was so rich in song because that was where all the starving people who took to the roads ended up. They would stop at a house for afew days and trade stories and songs. One can't estimate the loss of oral song and literature. The Gaeilgeóirí (Gaelic speakers) were the group which suffered the worst in the famine.Famine (from famina < latin for hunger). The Irish called it An Gorta Mór(The Great Hunger) in their own toungue. Its causes like contemporary famines were not were not rooted in lack of food. Christy Moore in a performance of "The City of Chicago" recites a list of the amazing volume and array of food exported from Ireland at the very height of the famine. See the novel, "Famine by Liam O'Flaherty for a moving portrayal of how the famine affected one family and the systems and institutions it came in conflict with. One example of how the famine affected irish music is the book "O'Neill's Music of Ireland. This is the book tireless collector and lecturer Harry Bradshaw referred to as "The Bible" for traditional musicians.This book was actually published in America from tunes collected from irish musicians living in Chicago.

Subject: RE: Help: Famine
From: Fiolar
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 11:46 AM

According to singer Frank Harte on Irish Radio some time ago there was a great absence of contemporary songs about the actual hunger. It's almost as if the ballad-maker could not bring himself to write about the horror and starvation that surrounded him.Among the other songs that Frank sang on the programme was this. No title was given.

The mad pictures of women and men walked my way,
And its haunted I am in the broad light of day.
By the Nore of Kilkenny, I sat down and I cried,
For the ghost of a nation that walked by my side.

On the wide falling meadows of fair Slievenamon,
The field-mouse was master; the tenant had gone.
By Cluan Meala's dark workhouse, I sat down and I cried,
For the living and the dead walked as bridegroom and bride>

Who emptied the village of Carrigaleen?
Who laid out the body of fair Skibbereen?
By the stones of Cork Harbour, I sat down and I cried,
For the vessel of exile lay dark alongside.

Farewell Castlecomer, Rathkeale and the Nore,
Clonmel, Carrigal and the Blackwater Shore.
Behind us the landlord and bailiff we leave,
And we sail to America our lives for to save.

"Carrigaleen" is probably "Carrigaline" in County Cork. The above was sung by Frank on a programme called "The Famine Years." Hope it helps.

Subject: RE: Help: Famine
From:
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 01:11 AM

a couple I can think of are Praties they grow small, and Dan O'Hara. I imagine the praties are in the search area...don't know about Dan O'Hara. I am sure they were written far after. One thing I heard on a very nice Irish Rovers special...the liked to have a fiddler on the "coffin ships" because it kept more people alive. Not that they cared per se probably, but they could walk themselves off the ship if they were alive and it was probably just all around easier. Also, I have heard that the reason so many were able to come here (and how did starving people get enough money to emigrate...it just doesn't make sense...they had nothing...) was because they were used for ballast that could walk themselves on and off the ships. My great grandmother came over at the age of seven all by herself. Never heard from any of her family again. How she managed heaven knows. She became a maid for the Taft family and one of the Taft young men wanted to marry her. mg

Subject: RE: Help: Famine
From:
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 01:18 AM

I have something else to say on the subject. And that is these famine survivors, who ended up here in great numbers, brought a great love of music with them. One of their only pleasures, after endless hours of carrying bricks or washing other peoples' underwear, was going to the music halls and listening to music that they then passed down to us. And especially on St. Patrick's day we want to hear the music that was passed down to us, corny as it may be, because that is what they liked. A lot of the old stuff probably got left behind for whatever reasons, like leaving the O in your name behind. Anyway, as an Irish-American, I get my Irish up seriously when around St. Patrick's Day the experts have to sneer at us for liking Danny Boy and Molly Malone and the Pig was Kept in the Parlor. It disrespects our ancestors and what they went through when you do that, especially if you are being paid to play on that day. mg

Subject: RE: Help: Famine
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 04:54 AM

I don't know of *any* Irish songs about the Great Hunger; "Over Here" or "The Praties They Are Small" is in fact a song written by Irish emigrants in America.

It's a bit like the Holocaust; survivors' guilt and pain means they don't want to sing about how they survived and how the people they loved died.

You might be interested in reading Thomas Kenneally's The Great Shame, which is about the Fenians, the transportations to Australia, the Famine and that whole period; he has a good take on the guilt, and how the Famine changed Irish society from one based on bonding and generosity to one where suspicion and greed were necessary to "get ahead".

Subject: Lyr Add: LOUGH SHEELIN SIDE
From: Frank McGrath
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 09:36 PM

The one song which springs to mind immediately actually predates the famine and that is 'Skibereen'. The famine was such a trauma on the country that it was never 'celebrated' in song at the time. I know of no songs contemporary to the period.

There is no doubt that much of our oral and music tradition was lost during that time. The Irish language became a 'paupers' tongue and was a considerable disadvantage to those who wished to emigrate and find decent work. The few surviving traveling musicians and bards (they had been outlawed in previous centuries) found little custom for their trade except for emigrant wakes. At those wakes people usually danced their farewells – songs did not feature as much.

I know of no expert papers or studies which will help your quest but I am interested in the subject and shall make enquiries. In the meanwhile here is some background information you might find useful in setting the scene for your research.

The census of 1841 measured Irelands population at 8.2 million people. He census of 1851 showed a decline to 6.5 million and the Census Commissioners calculated that the population would have grown to over 9 million were it not for famine and resulting emigration.

Reports of the time make for harrowing reading. Even as late as 1851 the potato blight was having significant effect and it was not until 1852 that satisfactory harvests were reported.

The 'shame' and horror associated with The Great Hunger has lasted for generations and it is only in recent years that a little of the national trauma of the time has been exorcised in song, poetry and drama.

Here are some links you may find useful for Irish famine information on the web.

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/famine.html

http://www.irelandstory.com/past/famine/index.htm

http://www.local.ie/general/history/famine/index.shtml

http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish_famine.html

http://www.oup-usa.org/isbn/0198182791.html

http://www2.magmacom.com/~jward/famine.html

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~eas5e/Irish/Famine.html

http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~jdana/history/famine.html

Closely connected with the famine are the agrarian disputes and rebellions which occurred throughout Ireland the 18th and 19th centuries. Less traumatic than death by starvation, evictions prompted songs to be written which give a glimpse of what the pre and post famine times may have been like.

Similar to 'Skibereen' is the song 'Lough Sheelin Side' is about the Tonagh eviction in Co. Cavan.

LOUGH SHEELIN SIDE

Farewell my country a long farewell,
My tale of anguish no tongue can tell.
For I'm forced to fly over the ocean wide,
From the home I love by Lough Sheelin side.

How proud was I of my girl so fair,
I was envied most by the young men there.
When I brought her back a bashful bride,
To the home I love by Lough Sheelin side.

CHORUS: Farewell my love, a fond adieu,
Farewell my comrades and county too.
For I'm forced to fly over the ocean wide,
From the home I love by Lough Sheelin side.

All our joys were too good to last,
The landlord came our homes to blast.
In vain we pleaded but mercy no,
He drove us out in the blinding snow.

No one opened for us their door,
For each one vengeance would reach for sure.
My Eileen fainted in my arms and died,
On that snowy night by Lough Sheelin side.

I buried her down in the churchyard low,
Where in the springtime the wildflowers grow.
I shed no tears for my tongue was dry,
On that snowy night by Lough Sheelin side.

Farewell my country, farewell all day,
For the ship will soon take me far away.
But my fond heart would sooner bide,
In the home I love by Lough Sheelin side.

END

I hope to post more relevant information in due course. I wish you well in your research and I am very interested to see the results of your quest.

Best regards
Frank McGrath