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Help: Amway Corporation
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Subject: Amway Corporation From: English Jon Date: 02 May 01 - 07:04 AM Anyone had any dealings with these people? Anyone know if it works? Any info greatly appreciated. Cheers, Jon |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: GUEST,Mr Red @ Library Date: 02 May 01 - 07:19 AM The only people who tell you it works are the ones introducing you to it. It takes a lot of hard work and the people I know who got involved didn't stay with it. their only competition uses the same computer system and is probably them anyway The products are fine but the business model is pyramidal Play the triangle instead! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Frug Date: 02 May 01 - 07:23 AM Jon I've come across lots of people who have been involved with Amway including my brother. The basic idea sounds fine . You start selling products to friends and family and you get a commission and you get your own purchases at discounts. Then you get asked if you want to be an organiser and recruit other people to do the selling and you get a chunk of their action too. Then you get asked to ask your people if the want to be organisers and more bucks for everyone 'cause your now a super regional area overlord and so it goes on. Theoretically fine but in pracice if it were that easy there'd be a lot more wealthy people out there. It's really just a form of pyramid selling which looks attractive at first but gets more difficult as you run out of immediate family and friend to induce into it. Also you need to sell loadsa stuff to make a living. may be a good way to earn a bit of pin money but a good career move it ain't. frank |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: catspaw49 Date: 02 May 01 - 07:29 AM One of the better known and old time pyramids........They contribute to the patient overload at the Neil Young Center dor the Terminally Screwed........DON'T BE ONE OF THEM!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: English Jon Date: 02 May 01 - 07:45 AM Interesting... My parents are looking at it. Desperate for a retirement fund, I suppose. I've taken a good hard look at it, and basically, it seems O.K. in principle, but I just don't trust it. EJ |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: IanC Date: 02 May 01 - 07:47 AM I can reiterate what others have said. Don't touch it! Friends of mine went into it in a big way and they're still trying to get out after 3-4 years!
Cheers! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Frug Date: 02 May 01 - 07:51 AM Jon I would seriously counsel your folks against it as an option for developing a retirement pot. The people who I've known that have got involved have found it a hard slog to make relatively little. There are other dangers as well. You can become a nuisance to your friends and family and that can do real damage to relationships. There is a pressure aspect to the organisation and as far as sales jobs go it figures in the lowest echelon. Frank |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: LR Mole Date: 02 May 01 - 08:01 AM Looks too good to be true and therefore probably is, as they say. My take on it, personally, is that if you want to trade your hope of normal friendships and cordial relations with relatives for something, it might as well be spiritual matters, rather than soap.Both forms of missionarying cause the same frozen smiles from strangers and oh-no-here-it-is-again strain among family and acquaintances. Besides, anything that demands constantly increasing results ain't natural. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: SINSULL Date: 02 May 01 - 08:30 AM RUN FAST AND RUN FAR! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 May 01 - 09:16 AM I concur with the others - keep away -it's a pyramid. I once worked out (when I had a brain that is!) that if it could work as well as they say - 1 person recruiting 10 etc - in a VERY short space of time everyone in the world would be selling Amway products to each other. In addition read James Dysons (the inventor) autobiography. Amway, apparantly, tried to rip him off in a big way and it was only after huge court battles that he managed to stop them selling his patents without paying him! Cheers and hope your parents do find something good - How abot something gentle that is pleasant to do and uses up some of the time they will have in retirement - woodcraft, leathercraft (ask Bill Sables on this) etc??? Dave the Gnome |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: wysiwyg Date: 02 May 01 - 09:33 AM Well, one can always join Scientology to get away from Amway once the hooks are in. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Gary T Date: 02 May 01 - 10:22 AM Amway the company is not a bad outfit. Most of their poor reputation comes from the questionable practices of their distributors (the individuals selling the stuff). As with most network marketing plans, it looks great on paper but serious money is made only by a small percentage of folks who have a real knack for this type of sales. An individual needs a large organization under him to generate good earnings, as it's virtually impossible to do well on the products you can personally sell. It's selling the idea to others that really pays off. Because a chart of the compensation plan looks pyramidal, network marketing (or multilevel marketing) is often called a pyramid plan. Technically, a pyramid scheme (also called a Ponzi scheme) is an illegal scam that depends on getting significant amounts of money from new recruits, who procede to try to get further recruits to give them money, who procede etc. Some pryamid schemes attempt to give themselves an air of legitimacy by including some bogus product, but that tends to be pretty transparent. Network marketing has its own problems, but the reputable companies really are selling useful (to some, anyway) products or services and don't require huge investments just to get on board. It is not properly called a pyramid plan, and is to be distinguished from those illegal and victimizing operations. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Kim C Date: 02 May 01 - 10:33 AM Direct sales can be a good thing. Like Gary said, network marketing is NOT the same as a pyramid. I have been a Mary Kay gal for nearly 8 years and while I don't bother with the recruiting part of the business, it has helped pay for vacations and car insurance and contact lenses. Plus I have met a lot of nice people and my skin looks great! ;-) (trust me, it didn't used to) I have used Amway products, and their products are good. But for some reason, the distributors act all squirrely about things, and I don't like that. There are people in direct sales who make good money, but you do have to work to make the money. It's not sit back in your chair and wait for people to call you. I mean, you can do that, but if you want to make the big money, you have to work for it. If your parents want to work a direct sales business, there are lots of good, reputable companies to choose from. They might check with the Direct Selling Association - at least I think that's it, I know the letters are DSA - to see what might be right for them. Cheers---- Kim |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: UB Ed Date: 02 May 01 - 10:48 AM Multi-level marketing can indeed work for folks. However, they need to enter into the deal with the notion that they will have to work just as hard at whatever MLM venture they do as they would at any other job (actually, people sucessful in MLM may work harder because its "their" business. Mom and Dad should look at their retirement goals and how this would fit in. What do they want to earn monthly from Amway and what level of effort would this require? Additionally, alot of people fail because they don't fully appreciate what is expected/required for success. You really need to be out selling beyond initial family and friends. Are Mom and Dad willing to do that? Ed |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: English Jon Date: 02 May 01 - 11:31 AM Interesting. I've seen the Amway "plan" described in quite some detail, and this is all usefull information. Whether or not it is "credible information" as Amway put it is another matter!!! Squirrels, did someone say? I think the fact that my father is a practical Socialist might knacker him in his business endeavours. He has a sideline in making appalachian dulcimers, which he sells for about £80 (about $120 U.S) I.E. at cost, because he thinks everyone should be able to afford a decent quality instrument. Where's the business sense in that? But that just illustrates what my folks are like. Too nice for their own good. Coupled with a Calvinistic work ethic, I just have this worrying feeling that they're going to end up working overtime for free. Cheers English Jon (who is doing an 11 hour day today. sucker) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Lyrical Lady Date: 02 May 01 - 12:19 PM I sell Watkin's Products ... which is also network marketing. It's been very good for me ... and because the products are so good ... they do sell themselves. Costs very little to get started, great help from the sponsers and best of all you get a great discount on all the products you use everyday....LL |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: GUEST,Confidential Date: 02 May 01 - 12:57 PM the most pressing moral dilemma I ever faced was when a young couple who thad just had "the presentation" asked me what I thought. I can only reiterate SINSULL's comment [above] I had been @ the meeting as their interpreter, and professional ethics had forbidden ANY editorial comment in my interpretation. The clients were also friends, however, and it tore me up to see how overawed they'd been by the trappings of affluence [and the gaqrageful of soap] of the presenter, who was a "pearl" or a "diamond" or somesuch blather indicating PTBarnum award of the month . I signed to them, very soberly and seriously, IF is sounds too good to be true, it's probably not true. You want my opinion? amway makes some really good product, but i call it [fingerspelled] s_c_a_m_w_a_y" their follow-up questions allowed me to explain pyramid/chainletter schemes. I bought some soap and a bomb of silicone spray from them :( so jon ... encourage the luthier in him to crank up dulcimer production , make some real beauts with rogers machines ... cheers another Canuck |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Kim C Date: 02 May 01 - 01:08 PM I have a big ol' shakey bottle of Watkins cinnamon on my spice rack. And the plain ol' black pepper - awesome. If they want to do a sales thing, whether it's direct marketing, or their own products... it needs to be a Good Product that People Will Want. With consumables like cosmetics or spices or household cleaners, people have to come back for more. And if the product is good, and you treat your customers well, they'll come back, and bring their friends with them. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: JedMarum Date: 02 May 01 - 01:34 PM I'll add my two cents; HUMBUG! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: GUEST Date: 02 May 01 - 01:49 PM I am a regular poster, but will not use my name because I'm still embarrased to admit I once succumbed to the Amway "circle drawing" spiel ! Everything said in above posts rings true - from the hestitant behaviour of relatives and friends who are afraid to take your phone calls, to the "walk the beaches of the world" mentality of "upliners" who claim they're next door to being millionaires, while trolling the aisles of K-Mart on their noon hours looking for likely "prospects"! Amway - their products are good, but there's not enough time in a year to sell the amount that will make you comfortable. DO NOT TRY IT AS A RETIREMENT SCHEME !!! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: M.Ted Date: 02 May 01 - 02:57 PM Your Socialist Dad won't last a day with Amway--forget that it's Amway, forget all the stuff about Ponzi Schemes, only think of this: if he and your mum are to succeed, they have to feel comfortable selling, and a big part of selling is being able to overcome constant rejection, and still look a person square in the eye and ask them to buy something from you for two or three times what they are paying for it--not many can do that, especially on a day-to-day basis-- Have a good heart to heart with them both--and talk about what they actually like to do, and stick with them til they find a way to do it--Most important--don't let them pay out from their savings for samples or demonstration kits, or for a shed full of biodegradeable soapflakes-- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: SINSULL Date: 02 May 01 - 03:01 PM I never thought I would ever have to admit to this again BUT in my misguided youth and against the sound advice of family and friends, I borrowed myself into years of debt by investing in Holiday Magic and Action. I believe the founders of Amway came from Holiday Magic. As did the EST guy. I had to move back in with my parents to get the loans paid off. Now, being me, I have to say it was not all bad. I was a painfully shy person who blossomed into a better than average sales rep as a result of their training and support. Worth three years of income? I doubt it. If you want to distribute products, look around at all the opportunities. If you are expecting to become even moderately rich by convincing your friends and neighbors to work with or for you, FORGET IT. RUN! RUN! RUN! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: M.Ted Date: 02 May 01 - 03:17 PM And they all came from "Dare to Be Great!", and its subsidiary, Koscot Interplanetary Kosmetics, which, if memory serves, never actually got around to producing any cosmetics--Several of my nearest and dearest friends, out of school and on their own, also ended up back at home and paying off mountains of debt-- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Justa Picker Date: 02 May 01 - 03:39 PM Any business that compels you to exploit, manipulate and/or compromise relationships with family and friends, to sell product is one to be avoided, if you care about these people and have any personal integrity. The Kicker: If you should attend one of these types of multi-level marketing "get togethers" and the organizer takes you aside following the presentation, and asks you to sit down and write out the name of every person you know or have ever met, RUN, don't walk out of there! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: IvanB Date: 02 May 01 - 03:44 PM I was once invited (by my 1st wife's boss) to a presentation by 'Crown Development Company.' We had already made plans for the evening in question, but agreed to attend the beginning of the presentation since our prior engagement was later in the evening. What I heard scared the hell out of me and, unfortunately, we had to leave the meeting before finding out who Crown Development was. The next day I called our AG's office to see if they had any info. They also had never heard of the company but were alarmed by the information I gave them. They called my wife's boss, who later called me in a fury to inform me that Crown was merely a front for Amway because people wouldn't come to the presentations if they knew upfront who it was. She offered me the chance to redeem our friendship by attending another presentation the following week, which I gracefully as possible declined. Frankly, I had already had a bellyfull of Amway's tactics and certainly didn't believe any company which had to make its presentations under a 'front' name could be all that legitimate. Amway is one of the largest corporations in Michigan (my home state) and, in my opinion have some of the most questionable sales practices. True, they escape the definition of a true Ponzi scheme by the inclusion of product sales, but I must state that, in two hours of the presentation i mentioned above, the distribution model was hyped but never was a product mentioned. If it had, I'd have been able to leave even sooner. At one point, it almost seemed as if most Michiganians were selling Amway products to one another. The products are OK, but much more expensive than comparable products. Be aware of one other fact: by your participation in Amway, whether by selling their products or purchasing them you will be supporting some of the most far right politics that exist. I state this not so much as a judgment as a statement of fact regarding the causes supported by Amway's (very wealthy) officers.
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Margo Date: 02 May 01 - 03:45 PM ACTUALLY, legally, Amway is NOT a pyramid scheme. A true pyramid scheme by definition HAS NO PRODUCT to speak of. Amway corp. has wonderful products. I am signed up with Quixtar (the online shopping service) where I get my Amway products. They come right to me. The big beef people have about Amway is the practice of sucking people in without mentioning it is Amway. I HATE that. If I was to be a business builder (which I'm not) I would tell people about Quixtar and say up front "the best thing is, you can get your Amway products without being an Amway distributor." I tried the business building thing. Here are IMHO the difficulties with it: NUMBERS GAME: Like any sales position, you have to talk to a lot of people before you find anyone who wants to get in. Not all of those who get in will want to build a business (myself point in case: I just buy for myself). So you need to stay motivated and believe in yourself to continue onward and keep looking for people. TIME COMMITMENT: It's like a real estate agent at everyone's beck and call at all hours. When you make appointments to show the Amway plan you need to do it when it is convenient for your prospect. And you have to be able to follow up later. That's where I had difficulty. I have a family, and not that much free time. MOTIVATION: A seasoned sales person is used to a lot of "no's". But for someone who hasn't done sales, it can be very discouraging. There are organizations along with Amway (separate from Amway) that help with motivation, but you really do get exposed to a lot of hype. If you get too hyped up, it turns your prospects off. You have to find the happy medium. Just because it isn't for me, I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying. It is a real experience. All the best, Margo |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: KathWestra Date: 02 May 01 - 03:47 PM I grew up in Amway-Land. Amway was founded in a garage in or near Grand Rapids, Michigan. Its founders were two Dutch Calvinists (did someone mention Calvinism???) named Rich De Vos and Jay VanAndel. They made many millions of dollars on their venture. They are huge contributors to the Republican Party. They lobby on behalf of corporate polluters. They are a virulently anti-union, family-owned, privately held corporation (read, their books are not open to scrutiny). Big Mick can probably contribute tales about the anti-union stuff. Half of the public buildings -- museum, concert hall, etc. -- in Grand Rapids are now named after either Van Andel or De Vos. (When I go home to visit my Dad, I joke about the time they'll just rename the city after one or the other of them.)
The thing about Amway that I find so personally distasteful is the way their higher-level distributors (the "diamond" and "platinum" guys) paint a "streets paved with gold if only you'll sign on" picture for the newcomers -- who are almost invariably working class folk who are desperately looking for a way to supplement an inadequate income. Their promises, as so many have commented earlier in this thread, are empty. And they have an insidious way of blaming the failure of the system on the people who fail to achieve the promised affluence. The Amway sales culture has a particularly pernicious resemblance to a nasty religious cult -- people who sign on are pressured not only to buy product, and to recruit their friends and relatives, but to listen to inspirational tapes by DeVos, attend inspirational retreats, read inspirational books by DeVos, etc. If you don't buy into the whole package, then you're dubbed a failure who really wasn't serious about tapping into the promised land. So in addition to your inadequate income, you're saddled with the stigma of being labeled an Inadequate Person.
I consider Calvinism to be one of the ugliest of organized religions: unforgiving, judgmental, and quick to blame anyone who doesn't fit in or follow its program to the letter. It does not surprise me at all that Amway sprung in its perverted way from this church. I echo all of those above who said: STAY AWAY! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Alice Date: 02 May 01 - 04:04 PM John, there are many reliable sources of information on the reasons why your parents should not join Amway. Here are some sources that you can provide to them so they can read it for themselves. One of the many problems with Amway and some other MLM types of recruitment is that it often uses some of the same thought reform/manipulation techniques that cults use - getting people emotionally hyped up in a group atmosphere where the pressure of the group makes them conform to the agenda, promises of success if you do what they tell you and threats of failure if you don't, getting you hooked before you are fully informed about the facts, etc. Here are some online sources of information:
CLICK HERE FOR A PAGE THAT LINKS TO ALL OF THE SITES IN THE FOLLOWING LIST
By the way, my mother got into Amway thinking it would help her make some money when she retired. When my parents died, half of a basement room was filled with her inventory of Amway products. (I tried them, and frankly I thought they were poor quality and overpriced.) My mother had signed me up as one of her down line distributors, and after her death I contacted her customers to see if they wanted to purchase products. EVERY single one of them said they didn't really like the products, and they had only bought them because they felt sorry for my mom. That is all too common a reason people buy the products. They feel like they are obligated to "help" the friend or relative that is trying to make a business of it. All too often, people destroy relationships when they try to recruit the people they know into the business.
CLICK HERE FOR A PAGE THAT LINKS TO ALL OF THE SITES IN THE FOLLOWING LIST
MLM Inquiry and Analysis:
What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing? - An insightful and intelligent inquiry into the MLM business proposition.
Sites that Evaluate, Expose and Report Personal Experiences with Amway, the Largest MLM:
Behind the Smoke and Mirrors - A powerful, compelling new book about the corruption of the Amway distribution system in which upliners make huge profits selling so-called training and motivation materials to unsuspecting downliners. The book is authored by a 14-year Amway veteran who has seen it all and has the courage to tell what she knows. A behind the scenes exposé. Anyone thinking of being an Amway distributor must read this. Also a valuable book for those millions who lost money, time, or direction pursuing the Amway dream machine.
Government/Regulator Advice and Info: Profits in Pyramid Schemes? - Information and activities of the Federal Trade Commission relevant to the MLM industry.
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Sandy Paton Date: 02 May 01 - 07:09 PM We were invited to sing at a neighbor's "presentation" party when they became Amway distributors. The meeting opened with everyone holding hands and singing "God Bless America", followed by the impassioned inspirational pitch. These neighbors worked very hard at it, and were, for awhile, extremely successful with Amway's multi-level scheme. They sold the nice home they had and bought a very expensive estate a few miles up the road. They bought a fancier car. Their dream lasted for a fair number of years, and then their bubble burst. They had to declare bankruptcy, lost the fancy home and car, and one might even say they lost a lot of friends. They are now living in a small condo in a nearby town. Politically, they were Amway compatible, but the scheme failed them. If your father's a good, old-time Socialist, warn him away from this super-patriotic, super-right-wing, super-religious bunch. To succeed in the business at all, he'll have to compromise his beliefs and values. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Boab Date: 03 May 01 - 03:45 AM Amway---good products, I tried it, dropped it when I realised my life was being taken over for little return by just about the rightest of right wing Republican organisations in the U.S.of A. I'll bet President-non-elect Bush is grateful for a big financial boost from "the Company". Let's talk about music!!----- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: English Jon Date: 03 May 01 - 05:42 AM Great stuff... Thanks everybody. I'll pass all of this on. Ultimateley they'll have to decide for themselves where they want to go with it, if at all. I hadn't thought about "party funding" aspects of the company, I take it the Republicans are like our Conservatives? I.E. far right? If so, that should put my Dad off... Oh well. Many thanks everyone. Cheers, Jon |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Deckman Date: 03 May 01 - 07:04 PM Again, I'm astounded at the relevence of mudcat. I'm on the Board of Directors of a small business group. We often have to wrestle with difficult issues regarding various businesses. One of our Board members wants to ban multi level groups. I've been pushing for more information, the pros and cons. And here comes this wonderful mudcat thread. Thankyouone and all. CHEERS, Bob (deckman) Nelson |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: M.Ted Date: 03 May 01 - 07:56 PM One of the charming little points that always endeared the Dutch Reformed types to me was their take on the Calvinist work ethic (lets not blame Calvin for this, when he was cleaning up Zurich, he could have never imagined where it all would lead), which essentially says that your worldly success is a reflection of your virtue--didn't sell enough of that Amway soap? Must be that you're not spiritually pure enough-- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Rick Fielding Date: 03 May 01 - 08:43 PM Sadly I've known several people over the years who although fine folks were naieve enough to believe that pyramid scams (no matter what they get called every few years) were the answer to their financial needs. They eventually lose their friends and fill in those spaces with other "pyramid people". How sad that your nearest and dearest have come to you because of commerce alone. Please, stay away from these things. Especially the ones with totally disingenuous titles like "Woman Helping Women". They prey on folks trusting nature. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Mooh Date: 05 May 01 - 09:25 AM Frankly, I'll disagree with some posters here. I've twice been grazed by Amway. Once when someone foolishly referred them to me and I had to practically threaten violence to get rid of them. The second time when someone "donated" cleaning supplies to a job I was working at the time. I found the supplies to be of poor quality and difficult to work with. There's no wonder that Amway hasn't cracked the big markets for such things, the products I saw were crap. Any company that contributes almost two million dollars to Bush wouldn't get my business anyway. Hope they stay out of the music business. Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Phil Cooper Date: 05 May 01 - 09:46 AM I had a significant other who sold amway cosmetics, and I never saw it pay the rent. She tried to get me involved, but I never would take the bait. Drug dealers sell PRODUCT too, and only the ones selling to the ones selling to the ones, etc, make any money there either. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Big Mick Date: 05 May 01 - 11:14 AM I can't say it any better than my dear friend Kath (Which reminds me........when you coming home and how come I haven't heard from you??????)........has said. She hit it exactly. Years ago I used to make the tapes of Rich and Jay's motivational speaches for sales to the distributors, read that saps. Took me about 2 months to realize what these vultures were all about. Just recently a friend of mine that worked for them for 30 years was let go in a massive layoff. These are people that devoted themselves to this company for years and were rewarded with an unceremonious dumping in order to preserve the profit margins so the DeVos's and Van Andel's can maintain their lifestyle. Kath, it cracks me up how much we think alike. I was speaking before a committee meeting on the naming of all of these structures and I wondered out loud if it was harder for DeVos to give his millions, or the father who donated $15 for each of his kids to put their name on a little plaque in the hall. Who had made the greater sacrifice? I mentioned that I thought we sometimes honor the wrong heroes. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: English Jon Date: 08 May 01 - 04:44 AM Just to let you all know, I've passed this info onto the family elders, which caused considerable interest. Anyway, I have registered my concerns. The trouble seems to be that the actual people in the lines are really perfectly normal and O.K. it's just that the system is insidious and manipulative. So. I've told them I think it's a lemon. Anyone got any suggestions for an HONEST get-rich-quick scheme? ;) Thought not. Cheers... English Jon |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Frug Date: 08 May 01 - 05:12 AM Yes Jon I think thats a fair summing up. Unfortunately the people in the lines become either a victim or worse they become part of it. When my brother was approached it was an old friend that did it and when my bro' suseqently saw the light and dropped out he lost that friendship because his 'friend' stood to lose an income because of it . That's they way it goes. Hope your folks take the right decision. As to get rich quick schemes don't seem to have any about me at present but if I find one I'll let you know. I was interested in the fact that yiour dad made appalachian dulcimers. Has he thought of trying to make this more revenue productive? Maybe if he made a stock up and costed them properly and tried to set up either a realtionship with some music shops or touted them round the festivals he might be able to generate some income. Develop his own web site for marketing????? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Kim C Date: 08 May 01 - 02:02 PM I don't think there's any such thing as get rich quick. Several of us have mentioned that even with a reputable sales company, there's still a lot of work involved if you want to make the big bucks. As they say, the only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary. Has your dad ever thought about marketing kits and/or instructions for how to build dulcimers? Could be a way for a little extry income without having to build the whole instrument. What does your mother want to do? She could work with him, or do her own thing. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: GUEST Date: 08 May 01 - 04:59 PM Some interesting info re Amway's activities in Canada. FYI, they were levied the largest fine for fraud (25,000,000) in Canadian history.Click here |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Julie B Date: 09 May 01 - 08:22 AM ...Wonderful thread! Surely Pyramid Selling is just another form of 'chain letter'? If someone tries to involve you in one, it's pretty obvious that they're interested your money rather than your friendship. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. I was horrified on the two occassions when I was unexpectedly approached (once by a previous next door neighbour and once by a singing teacher!). Needless to say, I declined their offers politely and firmly, but naturally my relationships with these people were never the same again (the neighbour had a marriage break-up and moved, and I got a different music teacher!) Julie |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 27 Aug 09 - 09:08 AM I lost a major client to Amway who went from having a £5,000+ per month turnover, and rather than continuing to promote his business, put all hos energy into Amway... in one month earning £17. I went to an Amway recruiting session and my jaw dropped. The sales pitch wasn't far short of psychological bullying - my feedback was just one word evangelic. What Amway fails to mention is that turnover is related to the extent of the sales person's social network, and if that network is converted to salespeople instead of customers, then once the overlaps are accounted for, there isn't that much more potential to earn. I have a very simple get-out mind-set. Imagine that the entire population est 60 million become sales people, and 10% of the population buy on average 1 product/month? Hopw much does each sales person earn on average? And conversely, if they are not among the very very few at the top of the pyramid, how much more could they have earned putting their energy into their own viable innovative business idea? You might gather I am not a fan of Amway, they cost me £4,000 a year. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 27 Aug 09 - 09:10 AM and shouldn't this be BS? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Deckman Date: 27 Aug 09 - 09:11 AM I've always felt that Amway is nothing more than a pyramid scheme. It skirts the law by VERY close margins. Bob(deckman)Nelson |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Maryrrf Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:21 AM I attended (unknowingly) an Amway meeting years ago at the invitation of a colleague. It was like an evangelical 'revival' meeting and every tactic in the book was used to persuade the attendees to sign up, including intimidation, enticements (speaker flashing diamond rings, wearing expensive suit, talking about his yacht, etc.- "Why would anyone be so stupid as to NOT want this opportunity???"). It was presented as an opportunity to make money without doing anything - once you get sales reps working under you you just sit back and collect a percentage of their sales... I was disgusted and simply told the person who had 'invited' us that if I'd know it was Amway I'd never have attended the meeting. I've known some people who made money from Amway but they were not afraid to be obnoxious and intrusive, they worked at it all the time, including buttonholing people in fast food restaurants, elevators, etc. and trying to suck them in to the scheme, and they were obsessed about it and relentless. I know more people who signed up and got burned. Not a reputable organization, in my opinion. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:27 AM That was very close to the meeting I went to. The presenter was talking about making choices ... about getting nowhere in life or making a success by signing up to Amway. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Stringsinger Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:55 AM This belongs in the BS section. Amway is a Ponzi scheme. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: open mike Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:16 AM Since a few others have posted about what multi-level marketing they are into, i will say that i help to distribute a product--Water filters. These are solid carbon block units which attach at the point of use. I am a firm believer in their efficiency and my work as an independant distributor is basically a service to others who feel that their water source is not as clean as they would like. I have been drinking water right out of a stream for many years, and having a filter in the line that is guaranteed to remove chemicals, giardia cysts and other impurities is a real bonus. If any of you drink bottled water, with a 5 gal. jug in your house that you have to refill you may find that having a filtered faucet by your tap is more convenient! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Bonzo3legs Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:31 PM I used to do the accounts of Amway UK Ltd in the 1970s. It was run by a bunch of absolute shits hell bent on screwing folks. They were based in Milton Keynes, I was given some free samples - some sort of drain cleaner if I remember. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:44 PM Gee, I haven't heard about Amway in years! I think they operate on the same principle as Boy Scout popcorn and Girl Scout cookies: sell an ordinary product at an inflated price, taking advantage of the buyers' friendship and sympathy - not a total ripoff, but definitely taking advantage of friendship and trust. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Ebbie Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:56 PM FWIW, this thread isn't labeled BS because back in '01, there was no BS. (Yeah, right:) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: EBarnacle Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:59 PM Stringsinger, We can discuss MLM's on Saturday. They are not ALL scum but Amway certainly has a high percentage of them. I am involved with one of them. The good ones fill an important niche. They take on good products and recruit a sales force for products which are good but are not breaking through into the larger market. The one I am with is good but is losing focus by bringing too many unrelated products into their line. All I do with them now is pass the products to my friends at my price and use them myself. The owner of the company has told me that, to maintain the MLM structure he has to invest less than 5% of the retail price of the product in product. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: JohnInKansas Date: 22 Apr 11 - 08:05 AM A next door neighbor at our previous home dealt in Amway and was apparently quite successful with it. He quite obviously had been at it for some time, and had at least a half-vast tribe of sub-tier dealers who trooped in and out regularly to pick up products and deliver "his cut." So far as I know he did no direct selling on his own (but may have still been recruiting). My observations are that the products are, in most cases, of "usable" quality, if you're not too fussy about the results. It is extremely unlikely that a person can make more than "occasional pin money" from selling them, and only those who recruite lower tier sellers are likely to make even moderate income from the deal. IF YOU ARE RECRUITED by anyone below the highest level, your recruiter's cut of your sales must pay his recruiter's cut of your sales, who must pay ... on up the line. As with any Ponzi scheme, the only ones who can possibly profit are those who got there first. Except under unusual and very fortuitous conditions, you are not first in line. One "analysis" a few years back derived the postulate that to have a net positive cash flow over a sustained period, each tier of a branch in an Amway "nework" must be a minimum of 30 to 40 percent larger than the tier above it. If your "recruiter" has recruited 50 people to work for him/her, you (and each of his other 49) will need to recruit at least 65 to work successfully for you. And to be successful for more than a very short term each of your 65 "workers" must recruit an additional 85 people to sell the stuff for them. One might get by with fewer active "workers" but the drop-out rate for your "less successful" business will demand that you continually recruit new replacements for the ones who give up. At the time, it appeared that this analyst had obtained fairly specific information about the Amway program, and in particular about their "revenue sharing" cuts and distributions. His calculations did appear to be "real math" and not just guesswork. (The article appeared in a "newsletter" from an established investment firm as advice on career planning, sent to me because they hadn't yet figured out that I had nothing to invest that met their minimum account restrictions.) A second observation, without intent to be disparaging, was that about half the "agents" who visited my neighbor on Amway business appeared (in casual conversation) to be "intelligence impaired," although none were obviously dysfunctional in non-challenging situations. (I don't think I would have cared to try to explain even a very simple tax return to any of them, as they appeared unable to grasp much past "change for a quarter.") One must suspect that his recruits came mostly from "populations" he had identified as most easily recruited(?). Unless you are peculiarly adapted to accepting what appears to me to be a "cult mentality" and being a "true believer," I'd think you'd be at least as well off renting a booth at the local flea market and raiding trash bins for something to sell. But I've never believed that I'd be much of a saleperson, so I may have an odd view of it all. John |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: artbrooks Date: 22 Apr 11 - 08:13 AM Another reopening of a 10-year-old thread. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: GUEST,999 Date: 22 Apr 11 - 12:11 PM Someone I worked with tried to get me into Amway years ago. I listened to the spheel: your dream circle, your fondest wishes, what you envision it would be like to be just ticketyboo. My answer was Farrah Fawcett to all three and I left. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: ChrisJBrady Date: 22 Apr 11 - 12:27 PM Check out a fairly definitive expose of Amway / Scamway at: http://www.rickross.com/groups/amway.html http://forum.rickross.com Take care. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: ChrisJBrady Date: 22 Apr 11 - 12:29 PM Sorry - blue clicky here: http://www.rickross.com/groups/amway.html |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Sep 11 - 01:45 AM This thread was reopened by Spam, but the devil made me post a message. There seems to be a religious aspect to many of these multi-level marketing schemes. The sales meetings, particularly, have the feel of a religious revival. We used to rent our Catholic church hall out for Amway sales meetings, but we decided to drop them because their almost-religious materialism conflicted with our way of thinking. They seemed to be an aspect of born-again Prosperity theology (health and wealth gospel), a Christian religious belief whose proponents claim the Bible teaches that financial blessing is the will of God for Christians - that seems to me to be an aberration of Calvinism. All those people with their fancy clothes and fancy cars made us feel creepy. That stuff didn't seem to fit with our food locker, of which we were very proud. If you were to guess that I was one of the primary opponents of renting to Amway, you might be right. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Deckman Date: 11 Sep 11 - 09:11 AM Joe ... my respectfull admiration grows! bob(deckman)nelson |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: saulgoldie Date: 11 Sep 11 - 10:15 AM Pyramid...enriches those st the top...heavy evangelical component... As SINSULL said earlier, "run fast and run far." Saul |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Sep 11 - 01:40 PM There are many Amway songs, "I Am Amway" is a recitation classic. "I Am Amway" by Paul Harvey is superb. Chases the moths out of my pocketbook ! Glorious Amway May have been posted before, But some of the songs are gems. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Bonzo3legs Date: 11 Sep 11 - 02:03 PM I did the accounts of Amway UK Ltd back in the 1980s. It was run by an arrogant prat called Liam I remember. I'm glad they went bust. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Sep 11 - 02:08 PM Pat Boone did a couple of Amway parodies. They can be heard at the site I linked. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Stringsinger Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:12 PM Now Amway is a real Ponzi scheme. Also very reactionary politically. It's as American as the Third Reich. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: gnu Date: 12 Sep 11 - 02:21 PM One of the engineering students at uni was an Amway salesman. Good cover fer sellin dope. Maybe he was just a multi-tasker? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 13 Sep 11 - 12:18 PM I had a client who let a successful business slide down the drain with the hope of making a fortune with Amway. Income before 5K-6K/month, after £11/month that is £11, not £11,000. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: lefthanded guitar Date: 13 Sep 11 - 02:47 PM Interesting to hear this- years ago a cousin I barely knew contacted me with her Amway business, which I politely declined to be part of. I know of a friend's daughter who seems to be making some money selling Mary Kay, but only part time and you need a LOT of customers. I also have a musician friend( who I also hadn't heard from for months, is that a coincidence? lol ), who suddenly called me up and tried to enlist me in selling Fuller Brush products- also sounded like a pyramid scheme to me, tho I believe their products are decent enough. I bless your Socialist dad for his principles -there are too few people out there who put principle before profit; and btw I am half tempted to buy a dulcimer from him myself . BUT I think he should raise the price a little above cost, why can't he make some money off his craft?? Maybe you can convince him to go 25% or 50% higher- they would still be reasonable and he would have a retirement business. Or may be he can even offer some kind of sliding scale, for those who can pay what they can afford, and those who can pay more. Good luck to dad, he sounds like a fine man. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:01 PM I put Amway in filter, looking for a thread on Amway songs, but that brings up Tramway threads. "Amway" in quotes brings up zilch. Amway in Search yields mostly below the line threads, but no songs. Is there a thread on Amway songs? I linked a source in this thread, but I was hoping someone had posted lyrics to Pat Boone's sendup. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: GUEST,999 Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:17 PM Amway classic sound bytes You'll find some there, Q. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:38 PM My link has the two Pat Boone songs, one may listen to them, but the lyrics are hard to catch. I was hoping someone had already posted them or for an online site with posted lyrics. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: GUEST,999 Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:16 PM Dang. That's the same site I said to Google to. Shoulda known you'd have that base covered. I'll gi'e it a listen, too. Maybe . . . |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Sep 11 - 05:19 AM The powers that be in Amway were like some raving USAian religious sect. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:30 PM Jes' good ole entrepreneurship. Not too original, some of the old sky pilots were pretty entrancing too. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Amway Corporation From: Amos Date: 14 Sep 11 - 04:51 PM Their products are pretty good. Their corporate structure, not so much. A |
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