Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?

Subject: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: marty D
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 01:13 AM

I know these are not folk composers but I love their music whether alone or in colaboration. I just saw the last few minutes of a program with Lou Reed singing September Song and Lotte Lenya doing one I didn't recognise. Any other fans?

marty

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 03:26 AM

Yes, The Threepenny Opera is a favorite. I saw a production of" Mahogony" and was immediately struck by the opening number, because I previously only knew that as a song recorded by The Doors on their first album. "Show me the way to the next whisky bar...."

chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: dwditty
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 10:10 AM

Frankie Armstrong and Dave Van Ronk put out a CD called "Let No One Deceive You" the songs of Bertolt Brecht. Let it be known that Jim Morrison (Doors) did not write Alabama Song (Show me the way to the next whiskey bar), nor did Bobby Darin write Mack the knife.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 11:57 AM

I've been down on Lotte Lenya since she dissed Brecht on the made-for-TV production of "Mahagony." and I didn't care for that production, which tried to make it into grand opera -- like they missed the point of Brecht/Weill somehow.

My 20th C. German Drama studies -- which was all Brecht, of course -- is probably what made a leftie out of me. thank you, Dr. Schluchter, wherever you are.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: GUEST,alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 02:59 PM

I like Brecht and Weill. There is the magnificent offensiveness of Mahagonny - it's not just the songs either. Other unmissable Brecht songs include "Die Legende vom Toten Soldat" and "Choral vom großen Baal". Brecht was a man who could be brilliantly rude and sharp at the same time when using very simple language. I'm not sure I'd have wanted him as a friend, but his work is an inspiration.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 08:58 PM

I've mentioned this before, but in the past I figured that if someone i was dating could tolerate my album of Brecht SINGING Brecht, then nothing else would ever bother them!

Love Weill and brecht, but doubt I'd have wanted either one for a neighbour!

Rick

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: GUEST,Julie B at home
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 09:08 PM

Some of my favorite Kurt Weill songs are:

"I'm a stranger here myself" & "Foolish Heart" both from "One Touch of Venus", Weill's only musical comedy, with lyrics by Ogden Nash. (I saw this performed in concert version at the Lindbury Studio in Covent Garden, London (UK) earlier this year by the "Lost Musicals Society", where top performers take part for no fee, just to ensure that 'lost' musicals like this one can still get produced occassionally).

"What good would the moon be?" (from the show "Street Scene", lyrics by Langston Hughes),

"The Saga of Jenny", "My Ship", "One Life to Live" (all from "Lady in the Dark", lyrics by Ira Gershwin - saw this performed at the National Theater, London, UK in 1999)

I have two books of Weill music (piano/vocal scores):
"Kurt Weill - From Berlin to Broadway" ISBN 0-88188-333-6, includes a selection of 24 of his most well known songs
"One Touch of Venus" vocal selections. THis was hard to get hold of, but Chappels in Milton Keynes managed it. It's published by TRO Hampshire House publishing Corp. ("available through your dealer or direct from TRO songways service inc., 170 NE 33rd Ft Lauderdale Fla 33334)

Julie B

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 09:11 PM

Here is my free translation of the love song from the _Dreigroschenoper_:

No JP had signed a certificate.
No-one said blessings or broke a glass.
Your clothes were the same as on the day we met
And there was no rice in the grass.
Don't stare at your plate when the food is all gone --
Put it up to wash with the rest.
Our love will go on, or it won't go on,
If not in the east, the west.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 09:12 PM

Julie, this is SUCH a stupid question, but it's bothered me for years.

Can you explain the name "Milton Keynes"? What does it mean? WAS there a guy named M.K.? Thanks.

Rick

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: toadfrog
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 10:04 PM

Brecht was grade-A swine! But his lyrics are brilliant. I also plouged through most of his Dregrosschenroman as an undergraduate. I don't recommend it.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 11:12 PM

Is there an English translation of The Threepenny Opera that's considered "the" translation? I grew up on an LP with translation by Marc Blitzstein. Later in life I read another translation, which I didn't enjoy as much - maybe because I've been so used to Blitzstein's. The other translation might be more literal and accurate - in the army song Blitzstein has it as "....we'll chop 'em to bits because we like our hamburgers raw!" The other has it as "beefsteak tartare," which is the German raw ground beef dish and probably more accurate a translation. I like, though, how Blitzstein captures the spirit of the song.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 06:14 AM

Milton Keynes is a new city in north Buckinghamshire, started in the 1960's. It includes such older towns as Bletchley, Wolverton and Newport Pagnell. There is actually a tiny village of Milton Keynes somewhere in there.

I think they chose the name for the whole city because it has echoes of John Milton and John Maynard Keynes.

There are many villages with the same basic name (Milton, Easton, etc) in England, and when you got a couple close together it was common to add on the family name of the lord of the manor to distinguish them. Milton Ernest and Milton Bryan are not far away. Milton Regis would have been owned by the king.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 12:13 PM

Thanks Snuffy. Figured it might have something to do with "John and John Maynard", but Milton is a common first name over here, so I thought it also possible that 'Ol Milty Keynes might have named a bit of turf after himself!

Rick

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 02:16 PM

Milton Keynes is a "new town" in south England, which by all accounts was well worth demolishing as soon as it was built (back in the fifties and sixties). The person you are referring to Rick, is probably John Maynard Keynes. I don't know much about him, but I believe he was an economist who believed in investing in public works programmes to help depressed economies to alleviate unemployment and to improve their infrastructure for the time when they moved out of depression. I believe he was gay and lived in the first half of the twentieth century. There are plenty of better educated Mudcatters than me, so no doubt someone a little more erudite will read this thread and be kind enough to enlighten us both! Alan.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 08:46 PM

Chantyranger, The Blitzstein was the first, and It's a good 'un. Marc's Musical The Cradle Will Rock is pretty amazing too.

There is also some good Eisler (?sp) music for some of the Brecht. Still want to pick up that Van Ronk/Armstrong recording. I've heard some of the cuts from it and they do a splendid job.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: English Jon
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 03:25 AM

I used to work for a music publishers. One of my responsibilities was preparing parts for any Kurt Weill show in Western Europe.

It was a crap job, but some of the music was good.

We also did Rogers and Hammerstein for this side of the pond, and also Sondheim.

Cheers, English Jon

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Llanfair
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 04:13 PM

I sing "wife of the soldier" and want to learn "pirate jenny"
Cheers, Bron.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 01:36 AM

Thanks for the tip on "The Cradle Will Rock," Susan A - R.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 06:15 AM

I'm horrified that 20th Century German Studies should be all Brecht, but he's still one of the key figures in the history of the theatre . . (For a start you missed Borchert's "Drausen vor dur Tur" . . which I have particularly fond memories of because of God being in a Moroccan gaol a week before he was due to appear on stage . . . )

Wife of the soldier is particularly fine (notice how it was anti-Nazi propaganda by a German . . it approximately follows the progress of the Nazi troops); it offers a useful teaching point about the distinction! I have to say I prefer the tune Steeleye Span use (on Rocket Cottage - it almost makes that pretty ordinary LP worth owning) to Weil's. Howver my favorite version of it is that on "We died in hell - they called is Paschendaele", where it's sung in three different langages (NOT at the same time, but on a verse-by-verse basis).

Also - Brecht was only an utter bastard where women were concerned.

George

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 09:25 AM

I've only skimmed the posts above but as a nautical singer I have a fascination with "The Ship, the Black Freighter" with it's apocalyptic vision of the pirate ship coming in to haul us all away. Would make a chilling memorial song for some of them unrepentant wall street pirates. I'd like to work up a Balkan arrangement for some group like the Johnson Girls and see what evolved.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 09:27 AM

Does Kurt pronounce his name Vile, and is he on the Food Network sometime? Or do I have a different Kurt Weill?

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 09:38 AM

Mizzy - your pronnunciation is about right - beyond that I don't know (I'd sort of assumed KW was no longer alive, but who knows . . .)

G.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 09:47 AM

If it's who I think it is, then my boss is his uncle!

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 10:56 AM

Kurt Weill died in 1950, at age 50. Blitzstein was asked by Lenya and Weill to write the english translation of "Drei...opera", and, at least as far as they were concerned, his was the authorized and definitive version-it was the big hit version, as well--there was an earlier english translation, dating back to the thirties, that didn't make it, and there is also an old filmed version, directed by G.W. Pabst, released, I think, in German, French, and English, but which was more of a movie with songs than an opera--Both Brecht and Weill sued because it had been changed so much--

One of my favorite Brecht/Weill experiences was the recent recreation of "Happy End" at the Bridewell Theatre in London. This show was such a disaster when it was originally produced in Berlin in 1929, that it lasted only two nights, Brecht, till the end of his life, never acknowledged that it existed, but many of Weill's songs re-emerged and became classics--

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: LR Mole
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 11:01 AM

There's probably a whole thread about translation changing meaning, but in one of the Threepennys I have when Jenny is asked, kill 'em now or later? she answers with a sort of jaunty "Hop-la", whatever that means. In Judy Collins' version, though, she answers in a sort of dreamy/stoned voice, "Killum NOW..." More chilling.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: GUEST,kilshannig / Rob
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 02:10 PM

Hey Marty,

If you like Brecht & Weill ( and modern artists!!) try the album "Lost in the stars". Brecht & Weill music performed by Sting, Marianne Faithfull, Jack Bruce and others. Bill Freisel produced it ?! There also seems to be a recording of a show of B & W music sung by Sting, Gianni Naninni ...anyone knows? Rob

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 03:28 PM

There was also a wonderful album by folkies Will Holt and Marta Shlamme called "A Kurt Weill Cabaret" that featured material from a cabaret-style show that they used to do--

Subject: Marc Blitzstein - Weill/Brecht translator
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 04:32 PM

Marc Blitzstein is quite an interesting character in his own right. The movie The Cradle Will Rock tells of his production of the musical with the same name. It's a fascinating movie. Did they make a movie of Blitzstein's musical itself?

Click Here for a thread on "Pirate Jenny" and "Mack the Knife." Here's that "Hoppla" part, along with my prose translation:

Wenn man fragt, wer wohl sterben muss.
And da werden Sie mich sagen hören: Alle!
Und wenn dann der Kopf fällt, sage ich: Hoppla!

When they ask who must die,
You will hear me say, "All of them!"
And then when the head falls, I'll say, "Hoppla!"

I suppose you could translate "hoppla" as "hurray," but the German word seems to have a more sinister shade of meaning. Blitzstein did a good job of translation, but Brecht's German was far more powerful.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 08:46 PM

GeorgeH, I was speaking broadly, but I am afraid I don't remember Borchert. I'll look him up. Test out my reading knowledge. Also, I'm afraid, all who knew him say he did not like to bathe, and stank. I remember one quote in the Saturday Review: "Unfortunately, he's a genius." How he could nail the female characters Dreigroschen so well is beyond me.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: John Hindsill
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 11:43 PM

Funny this thread should show up now, as, just this past Saturday, I saw a production of 'The Threepenny Opera' performed in Universal City/Hollywood, CA. It was directed by a member of the 1950s N.Y. cast and based on that production.

The music is very avant-garde, at times disonnent, and very interesting. I felt the performance was not as acerbic and ironic as the material seems to call for...none-the-less I enjoyed it.

If you are in the L.A area, it is at Theatre West, but it closes Sunday, I believe.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 01:52 AM

Is this a touring production? If so, I'll have to look for it to possibly come to San Francisco.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 05:17 AM

MAG: Yes, I didn't for a moment believe Brecht WAS the limit of your reading . . . It's just that Borchert (whose name I could well be spelling wrongly . .) has a particular interest to me because of working on the (University) production I referred to . . this was about 30 years ago, but it's still one of my two favourite theatrical memories.

As for Brecht's personal habits - I am now more knowlegeble (though perhaps not wiser!!) Clearly your knowledge of him far exceeds mine; all I was saying is that while his treatment of women was notorious, to categorise him as a "Grade A Swine" is a rather inadequate assessment of him!

Oh, and Milton Keynes is by no means as bad as it's cracked up to be (provided you're not trying to find any PARTICULAR street!!)

G.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: John Hindsill
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 09:54 AM

Chanteyranger--This is a local, professional production, but, alas, not a touring one. It's Hollywood or Burst!.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: quokka
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:13 AM

Brecht's song 'The Infanticide of Marie Farrar' is very powerful

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 11:03 PM

We had a little bit of discussion about that one recently--it's proof of Brecht's stature as a writer--

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 11:43 PM

As far as I can tell, there is no one like Weill and Brecht. Perhaps some Sondheim has come close.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:10 PM

None before and none after that I can peg.

Art

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:08 PM

Just listened to an old cd by Teresa Stratas. Lenya, of course, is my favorite, but Stratas comes close, surpassing Lemper on some songs that need to be sung softly and slowly. Youkali is one.

Her disc, "The Unknown Kurt Weill," has some seldom heard songs.

Nanna's Lied
Complainte de la Seine
Klops-Lied (Meatball song)
Berlin im Licht
Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib?
Die Muschel von Margate (Petroleum song)
Wie Lange Noch?
Das Abschiedbrief
Es Regnet
Buddy on the Night Shift (Propaganda songs no. 5)
Je ne t'aime pas
Lied von der braunen Inseln (Petroleum Song)
Youkali, tango habañera

Mudcat has very few of Weill's songs. His Paris songs get little mention, except for Youkali (Roger Fernay and Kurt Weill).

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 04:36 PM

YOUKALI-Kurt Weil translation of Roger Fernay's lyrics to Spanish from Ana Belen's version
I translated the two lines from the French that are left out in her version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abUG5jHzZz8

Her CD Cantan a Kurt Weill contains 20 nicely translated Weil songs.
http://www.amazon.com/Cantan-Kurt-Weill-Ana-Belen/dp/B0000365EL

Al fin de casi todo               
mi barca vagabunda
mecida por las olas
con fuerza me arrastró
La isla misteriosa
la que soñamos todos
parece que te invita
a entrar en su interior

Youkali, es el país que alguien soñó
Youkali, es donde se inventó el color
Youkali, en su frontera se detuvi el dolor
en la oscuridad es rayo de luz
la estrella a seguir, Youkali

Youkali, es el respeto de todos promesas cambia
Youkali, es la tierra cambio d'el amor
Es lo mejor que guardamos en el corazón
La libertad que soñaste tanto acariciar

Youkali, es la tierra del nuestros deseos
Youkali, es felicidad, es placer

Es tan real como soñar
No existe tal Youkali
Es tan real como soñar
No existe tal Youkali
Y la vida nos lleva,
cansada, cotidiana
por un valle de lágrimas
que no deja escapar
dejándonos el alma
por todos los rincones
dejándonos jirones
soñando por soñar

Youkali, es el país que alguien soñó
Youkali, es donde se inventó el color
Youkali, en su frontera se detuvi el dolor
en la oscuridad es rayo de luz
la estrella a seguir, Youkali

Youkali, es el respeto de todos promesas cambia
Youkali, es la tierra cambio d'el amor
Es lo mejor que guardamos en el corazón
La libertad que soñaste tanto acariciar

Youkali, es la tierra del nuestros deseos
Youkali, es felicidad, es placer

Es tan real como soñar
No existe tal Youkali
Es tan real como soñar
No existe tal Youkali

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 06:10 PM

Someone asked about the pronumciation of Kurt Weill's surname. I believe that once he'd settled in the States he changed it form vile to wile.

Subject: RE: Anyone like Kurt Weill, Bert Brecht?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:26 PM

Has anyone notice there are more than three chords to any of these songs, and such strange chords! My group has been working up "Pirate Jenny."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble