BS: Backgammon Advice

Subject: Backgammon Advice
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 09:19 PM

My girlfriend has just introduced me to the 'delights' of backgammon.

I have to say that it's the most frustrating game ever. You think hard and make the best moves you can, but your opponent always seems to have the run of the dice, and throws exactly what you don't want...

Every time!

Anyway, I'd like to become a better player, and would be grateful for any advice. I've searched the 'net a bit, and whilst there are lots of sites out there, I've not been able to find any decent tutorials that explain the best moves.

Can anyone recommend any, or point me in the direction of a decent book?

I'm not adverse to maths, but I am adverse to statistically mean dice.

Any thoughts, please?

Many thanks,

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 09:47 PM

I dunno' what your question is, but it's a great game and has much of the trategy of chess but with the elements of "chance." Great players will win 7 out of 10 games against lesser players and rank amateurs can often win a game or two against the greatest. learn the elements of the game and to become a real player, learn a couple of important things:

Learn the odds on rolling specific numbers. There are two ways to roll a 12 and eight ways to roll a six.

Learn how to play a "back game"....it's where the name comes from and it is the most used part by great players and rarely used by amateurs.

Always know how many pips differentiate you and your opponent. Combined with the other two above, you'll be better able to both offer and accept "doubles" in what may appear to be bad circumstances and you end up with bigger winnings.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:40 PM

Play a lot, with a lot of different players, to see the different "styles" of the game.

Over time you will start to see some sort of "bits of strategy" (or perhaps "bits of tactics" is a better phrase), for example:

In general, protecting one's stones is better than leaving them open to attack, but there are exceptions here also.

A stone that is in your opponent's home area, if bonked, will go back to your opponent's home area, so not much is lost; a stone in YOUR home area, if bonked, has to go all the way around the board again, so if you have to choose between leaving one open to attack over the other, it's usually better to leave the one (in your opponent's home area) rather than the other (in your own).

As Spaw alluded to, some rolls are more likely than others; keep this in mind when you decide which points to block, and where to leave stones vulnerable to attack.

These are the sorts of generalities you will pick up as you play more and more games.

Some very basic basics: If you roll 5/6 early in the game, and your opponent's bar point is not blocked, you can make "Lover's Leap" and move one stone from your opponent's 1-point to your opponent's 12-point.

Further, if you roll 1/3, 2/4, 3/5, or 4/6 early in the game, you can take one stone from each of your 5 and 7 points, and cover another point in your inner table.

That's enough for now; good luck, have fun, and don't stress TOO much if you lose. It takes a little bit of experience to really understand how best to utilize any given roll in any given situation. And even then, your opponent can "get lucky" and zonk you!

Have fun!

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:46 PM

Ahhh..........A Player! After I get home Alex, we'll have to start a "Backgammon by Mail" here.........LOL........That concept in chess always cracked me up and the idea that you could do it in Backgammon........yeah, right!..........."Sorry, that's double 6 so......"

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:50 PM

Maybe we could get a neutral 3rd party to roll dice for us, and email us with the results. It would take longer, but tehre's no opportunity for cheating.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:57 PM

Had that thought too..........Who do we use?....Kat?........Round us up a roller and we'll play when I get home..........This oughta' be a hoot!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:59 PM

Works for me!

Take care, old man. May the good angels guide your robot(s) and bring you home safely to your wife and kids (and various statuary).

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: Sourdough
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 02:20 AM

An interesting variation would be to have several player pairs playing with the same dice rolls.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:31 AM

Kat, NEUTRAL????

ME! ME!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 07:44 AM

A friend once said to me: Why do you win so much more often than I do? I think this is a game of chance.

I said: At least as long as you think it is it isn't. As soon as you'll be better in strategy then the chance element will be stronger.

Heed Catspaw's advice about the different odds but don't listen to the actual numbers he cites. There is one way to roll a twelve and there are five ways to roll a six. However, more famous men have made similar mistakes. A great French mathematician of centuries ago is on the record for having claimed that to roll an Eleven is as probable as to roll a Twelve.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 08:45 AM

Well Wolfgang, it depends on how you count each di.....warfie?....Isn't it something like that in German? Whatever it is, try not to be 7 points away and open!......(unless your situation dictates a strategy where it might be beneficial to be hit!

Y'all go on and play and I'll catch up when I get back. I still wonder what the original question was.....??...??..???.....

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:26 AM

Is a simulator reliable? I've never really understood random number generators.

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:29 AM

PS -- Good Luck Spaw!

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: alison
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:32 AM

there are bound to be online sites where you can play.... count me in guys...... nothing I like better than thrashing people at backgammon....lol

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:52 AM

MSN Gaming room-- here has it. http://zone.msn.com/backgammon/

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:00 AM

The probability to roll a Twelve is 1/36 and the probability of rolling a Six is 5/36 and it doesn't depend on anything but fair dice. It's math and it has only a single correct solution.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: Grab
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:38 AM

Ed, some more maths...

The chance of one player getting two successive doubles (of any value) and the other player not getting any is about 1/52 (5^2 / 6^4), which makes it fairly likely to happen during a game. The chance of one player getting three successive doubles and the other player not getting any is about 1/373 (5^3 / 6^6), which is unlikely but should be expected to happen at least once over 2 or 3 games. Of course, it'll always happen at the worst time for you (such as when they're moving pieces off and you're desperately trying not to be gammoned!) but that's just the way it goes...

Last time I played it on a board I lost to someone who'd never played before, which was amusing, but I had a computer version on my Amiga which played a pretty mean game. I never learnt any of the betting side though - anyone know of links to somewhere about that?

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Backgammon Advice
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 11:30 AM

The trick on the doubling, Graham, is to know exactly how far you are ahead (or behind). In rolls. If you double when you are looking at a certain or near-certain gammon, your opponent will cede one game instead of losing 2. You're doing them a favor! So you can't be TOO far ahead.

I've got a little pocket backgammon game given me by my XMIL, and it doubles far more often than I do (I never think about it!). So over many, many games (it usually beats me about 60% of the time) I've kind of gotten a "feel" for when to accept a double and when to cede the game.

Unfortunately the machine is really stupid when it comes to rolling off. Whoever programmed it wasn't terribly sophisticated in his (or her) end-game.

Alex