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BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Ebbie Date: 28 Oct 10 - 02:26 AM Hey, it just occurred to me that this is the Halloween/ghost story season. (I'm *real* swift) I have lots of other experiences to relate. This is another one I recounted before on the Mudcat, I think, but here goes: An English actor friend, hoping to get permission to extend his visa started an acting class. There were about 10 of us and since it was at my abode I got to be in it. My 'abode' was a hundred year old three-story plus basement house museum with an interesting history. We held the class in the first floor. Our assignment for the last session was to create/write/perform something original. We all came up with fairly impressive efforts, I thought. But this one woman- 40-45ish - took the prize, so to speak. She stood in the archway that divided the dining room from the fireplace room and told us in a trembling voice about this girl who had grown up having to bury incidents in her life she couldn't bear thinking about so she had to 'close and lock door after door.' And now, she said, this same girl now grown into a woman is ready to face the past and she is having to open door after door. Sometimes her voice broke, sometimes it stopped completely and sometimes it seemed like she wouldn't be able to go on- but she always did. In front of her in a semicircle on couch and chairs e waited, rapt, for her next words. Then I "saw" a fairly tall male figure appear in the kitchen doorway to my right. For just an instant it stood there and then he moved swiftly to her side and put his arm firmly around her shoulder. And that's how they stood until she was done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: LadyJean Date: 28 Oct 10 - 01:46 AM Then there was then night I woke up because my sewing machine was going on it's own. I was a bit disconcerted, until I saw my cat, sitting on the foot pedal looking pleased with herself. I have long said, the best way to summon demons is to open a can of tuna and chant the incantation, "Here kitty kitty." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Amergin Date: 28 Oct 10 - 01:05 AM I heard demons one night....saw them out of the corner of my eyes just out of sight, too.....but then I was on 5 hits of acid at the time.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Ebbie Date: 28 Oct 10 - 01:02 AM Interesting thread - including the 'thread within the thread' that Justa Picker linked to. That one I don't think I had seen before. About my Earl 'vision' and the suggestion that a skywriter had written the name in the sky which I and my friend had just happened to be in the right place to see, I'm not sure that I ever explained before that these are Juneau skies- we don't have much air traffic of any kind. Any plane one sees is either approaching our airport or is leaving our airport. Our sky does not have planes way high going to points unknown. Besides which, if we had a skywriter in town we would know about it. This is not a big town. That said, the only thing that irks me about Wolfgang's implication that my accounts had any conflicting points. I should think that if I had told the story with exactly the same amount of detail both times that that would show artifice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Amos Date: 27 Oct 10 - 10:06 PM Five years ago, neuroscientist Christof Koch of the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), neurosurgeon Itzhak Fried of UCLA, and their colleagues discovered that a single neuron in the human brain can function much like a sophisticated computer and recognize people, landmarks, and objects, suggesting that a consistent and explicit code may help transform complex visual representations into long-term and more abstract memories. Ads by Google Copd patients - Expert Tips, Info, News & Articles Treatment Options & Member Support - www.EverydayHealth.com/COPD Now Koch and Fried, along with former Caltech graduate student and current postdoctoral fellow Moran Cerf, have found that individuals can exert conscious control over the firing of these single neuronsÑdespite the neurons' location in an area of the brain previously thought inaccessible to conscious controlÑand, in doing so, manipulate the behavior of an image on a computer screen. The work, which appears in a paper in the October 28 issue of the journal Nature, shows that "individuals can rapidly, consciously, and voluntarily control neurons deep inside their head," says Koch, the Lois and Victor Troendle Professor of Cognitive and Behavioral Biology and professor of computation and neural systems at Caltech. The study was conducted on 12 epilepsy patients at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, where Fried directs the Epilepsy Surgery Program. All of the patients suffered from seizures that could not be controlled by medication. To help localize where their seizures were originating in preparation for possible later surgery, the patients were surgically implanted with electrodes deep within the centers of their brains. Cerf used these electrodes to record the activity, as indicated by spikes on a computer screen, of individual neurons in parts of the medial temporal lobeÑa brain region that plays a major role in human memory and emotion. Full article here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST,native Date: 25 Jul 03 - 08:23 PM yes I have had an experence ,with some thing couldnt see it .Look up the meaning of GHOST in a dicksonary. I have been told by a very inteligent man,that dreams are more real if you wake up in the middle of a dream ,normally you wake up a little while after |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Helen Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:27 PM G, One day early last year I was on the first day of my 2 week holidays. I was feeling a bit overworked and needed to be able to unwind so that I could enjoy the time off. I had work to prepare for my next round of classes in a couple of weeks but I had decided that this was going to be a "do nothing and relax" day. The problem was I couldn't seem to relax. It was like I had ants in my pants. I couldn't sit still, I couldn't read my book, I tried watching a tv show I enjoy and I couldn't focus. Finally I made the decision that if I couldn't relax I might as well do some work, so I went in and sat at my work desk and as soon as I sat down the phone rang. It was my brother-in-law telling me that my Mum had died suddenly and unexpectedly. That explained to me why I had that "ants in the pants" feeling. My Mum and I always had a really good psychic connection, and my sister and I as well, although since we grew up not as strong as between Mum & I. I always knew that Mum would let me know when she had passed over. Because I was overwrought anyway the message didn't come through clearly - there was too much static in my brain, but I was getting something which was making me jumpy and I couldn't clarify the message. I woke up in the early hours of the morning knowing that my Grandma was just about to pass over, and I homed in her mentally/psychically and couldn't work out why I was looking down at her from about ceiling height, but then she "came" back down to the bed and passed over not long after that. I also woke up when one of my beloved cats died in the veterinary hospital at 4am. Helen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST Date: 25 Jul 03 - 06:34 PM Okay, speaking of cats: I used to kid with my mother that my cat Shadow was her "granddaughter" and gave her a picture of her. Mom displayed it on one of her bookshelves, and repeated my comment to visitors. Shadow got cancer, and I knew after two surgeries and chemotherapy that she wasn't going to make it. I kept Mom apprised of developments. One morning, when Mom was watching TV, Shadow's picture fell off the bookshelf. She put it back up. A few minutes later, it fell off again. Mom replaced it again. The third time it fell, she said, "Okay, I get the message. But I'm not calling my daughter because if the cat's really dead, she'll be too upset to talk to me right now." The picture stayed put after that. The morning all this happened was the morning I took Shadow in to have her put to sleep. Mom's door and windows were closed. There was no fan or air conditioner running. There had been no vibrations from neighboring apartments, and her building was far enough off the road that vibrations from a passing heavy vehicle didn't cause the picture to fall. She told me there was no reason for the picture to keep falling off the shelf, and there was no reason for it to have stopped falling after she announced that she'd gotten the message. Mom had other "visitations" as well: clocks falling off walls, knicknacks carefully turned on their sides, etc. They didn't scare her, but rather frustrated the hell out of her. "It's like being sent a blank telegram," she used to say. "Somebody's sending me a message, about SOMETHING but they won't tell me what about!" The instance with Shadow's picture was the only one that was clear. Given Mom's sensitivity (and mine, on occasion) to the "paranormal" I kind of expected a message when she passed away - falling pictures, phantom phone call, whatever - but didn't get one. I distinctly got the impression, however, that she was Quite Put Out about all of the strangers in her home after she died: the police, the Telophase folks, and some friends who came to give moral support. I half expected to see her coming out of her bedroom saying, "Who the hell are all these people nosing about my things????!?" Pretty creepy feeling. G |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST Date: 25 Jul 03 - 02:33 PM MEOW! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: katlaughing Date: 25 Jul 03 - 11:20 AM I agree with Helen, Wolfgang. It would be easier to understand what you mean if you were to start a thread explaining. I just add what my experiences with the paranormal are Have you had any experiences with the paranormal? I thought you didn't believe in such things. I'd be interested in hearing of your own personal experiences. It's that personal bit which gets me. It seems intolerant, to me, for you to come in, seemingly with the express purpose of debunking our own personal stories, rather than sharing with us your own. I don't think any of us really share our experiences in order to have them dissected. Finally, if some of us seem like closed books to you perhaps it is because, as I said, over the years we've learned what your views are on the subject and grow weary of the arguing. Sorry, Rapaire, for the drift. I won't be posting to this thread again. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Amos Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:30 AM But I do know one, undeniable, thing about an "afterlife": all too soon we're all going to know The Truth, the absolute, no-possible-doubt, Truth about it. Well, I dunno -- if the rich variability of human experience on this side of the life and death divide is actually holographic, then it is possible there will be as rich and varied an array of "truths" to be experienced when we shed our mneat credit-card units and shuffle "over". Just speculating here-- the notion that one kind of space-time will be common to all discorporate entities is kind of like Newtonian physics -- it looks right, as long as you don't look too close. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Helen Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:53 AM Wolfgang, you said: "Perhaps my post was way too short" and that is exactly why I have suggested that you start a thread with a fuller explanation of what you are talking about. Then you can insert a link to that thread into these type of threads and people will have a better opportunity to understand what you are saying. The way it is now, you are making brief allusions to something you know and understand very well without giving everyone the opportunity to know more about what you are basing your statements on. Helen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Rapparee Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:08 AM I refreshed this thread because I wanted to share the stories, which I did. I thought that there had to be such a thread, searched for it, found it, used it. Recycle, reuse.... I could easily explain what happened in my stories in ways other than attributing to them paranormal or supernatural attributes. Perhaps those explanations are the truth (whatever that is, seems slippery, and don't remind me of "Jesting Pilate"). There are many explanations for these occurences, and being one who tries to shave with Occam's Razor, the simplest and most mundane explanations are probably correct. My Aunt Tilly probably did awaken and "saw" my Grandmother in a half-sleeping state -- it had been a traumatic day and her thoughts would have been on Grandmother -- and other explanations are possible that do not invoke the "spirit world." I was 13 at the time, I knew it then. Whether or not one believes in such things as ghosts, survival after death, and so on is irrelevant -- these are tales of what others experienced, not detailed reports of scientific research. But I do know one, undeniable, thing about an "afterlife": all too soon we're all going to know The Truth, the absolute, no-possible-doubt, Truth about it. In the mean time, why not sit back and enjoy the stories? Ater all, you can enjoy a song or a symphony without discussing or even thinking about the physics of sound. And I promise you that even though I know the reasons that produce the spectrum, I still get a kick out of rainbows. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:40 AM I suppose experiences with Succubus would be included in this catagory.
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Wolfgang Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:38 AM convivial sharing among friends Kat, that's fine with me, so I just add what my experiences with the paranormal are or do you just want to admit experiences with a special slant? I do get the impression by your reactions (Helen, e.g.) that you still completely misunderstand my first post about Ebbie. Whatever my contribution to that misunderstanding was I am sorry about. Perhaps my post was way too short. To make it explicit: I see nothing in the two posts by Ebbie which is not completely within the normal range of variation when stories based on fact do get retold. Details vary, and on the whole, usually the story gets longer (there are several explanations to that and furcone has mentioned them). The only moral in my eyes from reading Ebbie's two accounts is not to take every detail reported as gospel truth. That was my sole aim in that post. Something totally different would be to claim that the gist of the story is not based on fact. If you read without anger my posts you'll see easily that I have made no such claim here (I have made it in different contexts, Helen, but not here). I have stated that I like furcone's sky-writer explanation. This can only be read to mean that I believe Ebbie's story to be based on fact (at least the gist of it) but that I tend to prefer another explanation for the same set of observations. Furcone has only presented what Ebbie has asked for in the other thread: So, everybody, if you can explain this to me I would welcome it. Some funny kind of welcome it was. why don't you admit, as Ebbie has pointed out, that you are a closed book Kat, the ones who are closed books are you and others here when pleading not to be told of other possible ideas. I agree here completely with furcone, again, who did list several possibilities including the one or maybe it was Earl. Yes, I even see this possibility but you may excuse that another possibility is more probable in my evaluation. You differ in your evaluation and that's fine with me but please have the tolerance to let others also post theirs. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST Date: 25 Jul 03 - 03:22 AM Wolfgang - we need you around more often - thank you for some rational insights - keep up the good work! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Sorcha Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:51 PM Wolfgang, even though it wasn't you who refreshed this (it was Rapaire who has stories of his own), really, man, why do you persist in coming in and trashing the rest of us? Neither side is ever going to change the other's mind. I agree with the "just don't open them" thing. I do love the personal stories and will probably never be 'rational' about this stuff. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Helen Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:49 PM Wolfgang has shown an interest in previous threads on a topic which he seems to think contributes to the proof or disproof of psychic experiences. That topic is the fallibility of memory and recall, especially over time. In this instance he seems to want to introduce this topic again, also in a thread about ghosts and the paranormal (this seems to be his pattern of bringing up the memory topic) and he has succeeded again in getting a reaction. If you want to read more about his opinions then I suggest you look at previous similar threads to evaluate his logic. Wolfgang, I respectfully suggest that if you wish to start your own discussion on the theory you hold that some psychic experiences can be explained in part, or even explained away, by the fallibility of memory then I suggest that you start a new thread and introduce the topic with an explanation of what you think about all of this. Maybe then when you inject your references to recall and memory into these specific threads about the paranormal and psychic experiences we will be able to have a better understanding of what you are saying based on the thread you have started, and to which you could add a link. By singling out one particular person's post and analysing it according to your theory or opinion you are in fact hijacking this unrelated thread. As it stands at present, although you often espouse the importance of using rigorous scientific method, so far I have not seen evidence that you do have an open mind to new evidence. Maybe, in your own thread about the topic that you are obviously so interested in, your scientific method will become more obvious. Respectfully, Helen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: SINSULL Date: 24 Jul 03 - 08:04 PM "My premise was that believing #1, that an unconscious mind is able to produce such a real phenomenon and #2, that I was present and able to see it takes a greater leap of faith than does the simple question as to whether there is life on the other side." That is an interesting observation, Ebbie. My experiences have led me to the exact opposite conclusion. It is easier for me to believe that the human mind has incredible and untouched potential which will someday make experiences such as yours commonplace. But, as Amos says, we are each entitled to our opinion. As to Wolfgang's comparison of the two posts: I don't get it. The story has stayed the same. The details do not change, exaggerate, whatever, the original telling. Or am I missing something? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Sorcha Date: 24 Jul 03 - 07:31 PM Oh shut the hell up, Greg. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 24 Jul 03 - 06:35 PM Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow
Same song different place.
Come on Kitty why you gotta be like that?
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: katlaughing Date: 24 Jul 03 - 06:20 PM skywriter got twisted to provide a reason to ridicule him Twisted by whom and to ridicule whom, Jeri? Sorry, I am not clear on your meaning. As to the other, well, I try to ignore the bait most of the time, anymore, but when it goes on and on, in any thread which we have like this one, and the same person makes it a point to come in and ridicule us for our beliefs, I will speak up. I don't think Mudcat has been nearly as rife with this kind of contention as it has been in the past, though, so maybe these instances stand out more. I still stand by my reply. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Jeri Date: 24 Jul 03 - 05:07 PM OK, the bit about details was subjective. The bit about the possibility of a skywriter got twisted to provide a reason to ridicule him. He sure did get a defensive sort of reaction! Can we just live and let live - and perhaps state our opinions sometimes without having different ones bludgeoned to death? (Answers self: No, Jeri. This is the internet. This is Mudcat. Any flaming is generally seen as more fun than the original topic and everything debate fodder.) The one and only experience I can remember having was when I was about 18. (I may have posted this at some time, so plz forgive.) I woke up one morning and my mom was in the living room and saw her hanging up the phone. I KNEW my aunt had just died before she even told me what the call was about. I'd had a dream right before I woke that I was walking through my aunt and uncle's house (where they lived before they moved), only it now just contained a series of long corridors, panelled in the same pine their house (from before they moved away) had been. There were doors. There was a sort of shelf, about the size a coffin would fit on, with a black curtain. I pulled back the curtain - nothing was there, but my aunt's voice said "now this is all yours," and I awoke. I think the "all" really meant memories and the "house" was how I remembered her in my own mind. There's a very tiny chance I'd heard part of my mom's side of the conversation before I'd awakened. I know I was surprised to see her hanging up the phone so early in the morning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: katlaughing Date: 24 Jul 03 - 04:33 PM NOT my story, Wolfgang...a theory posted by furcone, whoever THAT is, and supported by yourself. ...Ebbie and friend just happened to be near. Yeah, right...why don't you admit, as Ebbie has pointed out, that you are a closed book when it comes to anything which doesn't fit your supposed scientific methods? You make it a point to seek out these threads and deliberately disrupt what starts as a convivial sharing among friends, harming no one through their telling. It is also a bit much that you take the time and expend the energy to seek out old postings and try to prove something by comparison. I don't think most people give a damn. No matter what Ebiie said or didn't say, you would never admit to any evidence of anything anyway, so what is the point? I think you do it just to stir things up because you cannot stand to see others believe in something that is so contrary to your own beliefs. Ever heard of "live and let live" or "if you don't like the subject matter, don't open the thread?" It's been years...I think we all know, by now, your feelings about these types of discussions. Why don't you save it for your classroom? kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Jul 03 - 02:21 PM Ebbie, you make look it this way only be leaving out in the citation of the 2003 narrative sentences you do include in the 2000 (not 2001, BTW) narrative. You include We were not nearly as astonished and disbelieving then as we are now- mainly it made us laugh tearfully at Earl's 'goodbye'. Now, three years later, the implications boggle my mind. You leave out I was not nearly as blown away at that time as I am now. Somehow then it was more funny than anything else- as in, 'Isn't that just like Earl!'. Now, of course, from time to time, one of us will say, 'Did we really see that?' You include Two days after a friend unexpectedly died, another friend and I were walking along, talking about him. You leave out a couple of days after a friend had died unexpectedly, a friend and I were walking along a roadway. We had been discussing Earl's sudden death but were silent for a moment. Include comparable parts and have another look. What did you mean then in 2000 when posting 'It was completely stable'? Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Jul 03 - 01:39 PM kat, I agree your story is utterly ridiculous. The way I understand furcone the idea is far far simpler. Earl may have had a skywriter friend who this way did tribute to his friend and Ebbie and friend just happened to be near. No need to claim Earl foreseeing his sudden death just to fit the theme of the thread. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Ebbie Date: 24 Jul 03 - 01:37 PM As my mother would have said, "You guys take the cake!" One more time: July 2003 "Then my friend said, 'Look up there- what do you see?' I looked up into the sky, and there in front of us, formed clearly from white clouds- MUCH clearer and firmer than from the old Pepsi planes- was the word 'Earl'. The E was large and puffy and double width, the small letters single thickness, and there was a flourish extending from the l, partially underlining the word. The sky was clear- there were absolutely no other clouds in the sky, other than low on the horizon to the west there was a thin bank of clouds lit by the setting sun. Gradually the name slid to the left going out of sight around the bend in the forested road. As we walked around the bend perhaps two minutes later, there was not a scrap of cloud in the sky." August 2001 "Two days after a friend unexpectedly died, another friend and I were walking along, talking about him. At a certain point, she said, "Ebbie", look up there- what do you see? I looked up into the sky, not many degrees above the horizon. I said, Yeah, looks like an E- an a- an r- an l!! In an otherwise cloudless sky was a band of clouds that formed our friend's name. (The only other place there were any clouds was right above the setting sun, way off to the west)It was completely stable and clearer than the old Drink Pepsi-Cola! smoke ads, if you're old enough to remember them. We were not nearly as astonished and disbelieving then as we are now- mainly it made us laugh tearfully at Earl's 'goodbye'. Now, three years later, the implications boggle my mind." As you can see by comparing, I gave substantially more detail in the first account. Wolfgang, did I say or imply in 2001 that eventually the word just blinked out or faded or "gradually slid to the left"? No. I did not- because I didn't give that detail. The detail of how the letters looked is substantiated by what I drew in chalk when I got home that day. August 2001: It was completely stable and clearer than the old Drink Pepsi-Cola! smoke ads, July 2003: formed clearly from white clouds- MUCH clearer and firmer than from the old Pepsi planes- was the word 'Earl' Keep in mind that I don't live in a vacuum nor does my friend. On occasion we still discuss the phenomenon. It is interesting to compare Ebbie's Earl story above with how she told the story three years ago: here. 'It was completely stable' now becomes 'Gradually the name slid to the left' and, on the whole, the story gains in detail with increasing distance to the event. Wolfgang No, Wolfgang. I don't think I am reading more into your post than what you meant. As far as I am concerned, just then you lost credibility as a dispassionate scientist interested only in the truth, revealing yourself as another faulty human being with your own agenda. Eb |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Donuel Date: 24 Jul 03 - 01:20 PM My experience is not paranormal but real. In 1979 I witnessed two softball sized globes of light pass through the brick wall of our home. At a leisurely walking pace they passed through the opposite walls without effect - except for us and our cat who fluffed up in fear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: katlaughing Date: 24 Jul 03 - 12:44 PM Believing that Earl set something up ahead of time, knowing he was going to die *suddenly*, with a "skywriter" and knew at exactly what point Ebbie and her friend would be walking in that particular spot is ridiculous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Jul 03 - 12:26 PM Ebbie, you seem to see more in my post than what was there. Furcone did get my main point exactly. I like his or her sky-writer explanation. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST,Lepus Rex (where the fuck is my cookie?) Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:59 AM Ooh, I got one. A couple of weeks ago, some friends of mine were hanging out in front of a restaurant (Pharoah's or something, I think it's called now... Just north of 49th st. on Central ave. in lovely Columbia Heights, Minnesota.) when they had an odd experience: They noticed an elderly Asian man with a cane, slowly jaywalking in their direction across the northbound lanes of Central. Then they saw a car headed directly towards the man, seemingly unaware of his presence. The car didn't brake or swerve, but plowed right into him, or rather, it seemed, through him, and the driver continued on North. The old man was still there, walking across Central. My friends looked at each-other for a moment, to ask the other if they saw that, and when they looked back a second later, the old man had disappeared. Although they both agree on what they saw, they're split on whether it was "paranormal" or not. Whatever, it was weird. ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST,furcone Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:58 AM I assume that Wolfgang is pointing out the increased detail in the later telling of the story. This could be insignificant & just due to having more time to tell the story, or whatever - or it could indicate that the mind has adapted the memory to suit what Ebbie wants to believe, or maybe the tale has picked up detail from minute adaptations in being told over time, or the event has been fleshed out by later interpretations being hung on the basic memory. On the other hand - maybe Earl knew a sky-writer who had their own spectacular way of saying goodbye. Or maybe it was Earl. We can only form our own opinions from what Ebbie tells us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Ebbie Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:32 AM "Two days after a friend unexpectedly died, another friend and I were walking along, talking about him. At a certain point, she said, "Ebbie", look up there- what do you see? I looked up into the sky, not many degrees above the horizon. I said, Yeah, looks like an E- an a- an r- an l!! In an otherwise cloudless sky was a band of clouds that formed our friend's name. (The only other place there were any clouds was right above the setting sun, way off to the west)It was completely stable and clearer than the old Drink Pepsi-Cola! smoke ads, if you're old enough to remember them. We were not nearly as astonished and disbelieving then as we are now- mainly it made us laugh tearfully at Earl's 'goodbye'. Now, three years later, the implications boggle my mind. So, everybody, if you can explain this to me I would welcome it. Ebbie " Wolfgang, I am disappointed in you. Where in the world do you see a discrepancy? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:17 AM It is interesting to compare Ebbie's Earl story above with how she told the story three years ago: here. 'It was completely stable' now becomes 'Gradually the name slid to the left' and, on the whole, the story gains in detail with increasing distance to the event. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Ebbie Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:11 AM Humph! Yesterday I wrote a response to your post, Sinsull, and today it's gone. My premise was that believing #1, that an unconscious mind is able to produce such a real phenomenon and #2, that I was present and able to see it takes a greater leap of faith than does the simple question as to whether there is life on the other side. Any time that I start thinking that maybe this life is all that there is for us, Sins, all I have to do is think on the image of a baby being born. The babe would be ready to swear that where s/he has been is a safe, known environment and where s/he is being compelled to go is totally alien and downright scary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Amos Date: 23 Jul 03 - 09:55 PM Sins: Given two people in comparably good condition, I would be more inclined to bet on the discorporate one being able to create telekinetic effects on that scale. Just a matter of opinion, though....and everyone has got one of those, right?? :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: SINSULL Date: 23 Jul 03 - 07:26 PM Ebbie, I think it may be a leap of faith to assume that the departed Earl caused the phenomenon. It is just as likely that your friend did it unconsciously. Just a thought. SINS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Grab Date: 23 Jul 03 - 07:04 PM As a "sceptic" (in other words I may have an opinion on the likelihood of something, but I'll reserve judgement if it's not proven either way), I'd love to have such an experience. Unfortunately, not so far. The problem is always determining between ppl with genuine experiences and boring goths who want to make folks think they're interesting sensitive souls tortured by contact with the spirit world (the closest most have got to the spirit world is Jack Daniels). Luckily age probably rules out most of the latter here. ;-) Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Amos Date: 23 Jul 03 - 05:05 PM Ebbie: I think there are possible coherent if non-materialistic explanations, and you are not the only one tohave seen cloud-art done by a dearly departed. See PM. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: katlaughing Date: 23 Jul 03 - 04:10 PM Ebbie, perhaps you were meant to see it simply as confirmation, for your friend who also saw it, that it really existed. I used to have a book about North or South Carolina, can't remember which one, but there was a true story in there about a ghostly civil war battle which went on in some woods, much as Sorcha describes, just on the ground. People who had seen it, heard the battle, saw the soldiers, horses, cannons, etc. I believe that a person's soul can hang around for quite awhile. I also believe such phenomena is as nothing to accomplish, from the "other side." A very good book which answers a lot of these after-life type of questions is From My World to Yours by Jasper Swain. It's out of print. It's written by a very practical South African lawyer whose son and his friend were killed in a head-on collision. The son came back to basically dictate the book about what happened as he died, etc. It's fascinating and the father was such a skeptic, at first, that it took quite a bit to convince him to pay attention. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Sorcha Date: 23 Jul 03 - 02:22 PM We were driving from Winfield, KS to Grand Lake of the Cherokees in OK. Just past Coffeyville as I recall, one of us saw this battle in the clouds. 3 car loads of us pulled over and got out to watch. 2 opposing armies with horses, pennons, cannon, etc. are battling it out in the sky. Several other cars also stopped to watch so it wasn't a hallucination of mine. As more and more cannon smoke appeared it finally obscured the battle completely. I was about 14 so this would have been about 1965. I have lost contact with the surviving people so I don't know if they would remember it. The Earl story is fascinating! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Ebbie Date: 23 Jul 03 - 01:49 PM Sorcha, would you give a little detail, please? One of the things that bothers me about recounting the Earl story above is that it seems that no one thinks about it or its implications. Like my oldest brother- he said, 'Yeah, I can believe that' and launched into his own story, while I wasn't asking for belief (I already knew it was true), I was interested in hearing someone's views on how that kind of thing could happen and what it tells us about the afterlife. How, for instance, does a person (Earl, who was not overtly religious) get permission? capability? the clout? How long does a person's spirit hang around after death? In Earl's case, it was two or three days after his death- in another state, even. Oddly, also, although my friend and he had a strong connection of friendship, he and I did not, even though we had known each other in a casual way for about 10 years. (My friend said that she was greatly relieved when I saw it too; didn't know how to explain it to herself if she was the only one. I, on the other hand, am surprised that I too was able to see it- I would have thought it required actual mourning.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Sorcha Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:36 AM About 10-12 of us once watched the Ghost Riders in the Sky, but they weren't cowboys, it was a re enactment of what appeared to be a Civil War battle complete with cannons and cannon bals in the clouds. Very strange. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Ebbie Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:26 AM Speaking of the paranormal, a friend and I saw something in broad daylight a couple of years ago that I've never heard even postulated by anyone else. "Seeing" an animal in the clouds, OK. But I had never seen even a letter, much less a word, until that day. Does some oldtimer out there remember those DRINK PEPSI ads scrolled in the sky back in the 40s? A small plane would loop around releasing something (dry ice? Some kind of chemical?) that spelt out whatever. The letters would form legibly and then drift away, quite quickly. Well, a couple of days after a friend had died unexpectedly, a friend and I were walking along a roadway. We had been discussing Earl's sudden death but were silent for a moment. Then my friend said, 'Look up there- what do you see?' I looked up into the sky, and there in front of us, formed clearly from white clouds- MUCH clearer and firmer than from the old Pepsi planes- was the word 'Earl'. The E was large and puffy and double width, the small letters single thickness, and there was a flourish extending from the l, partially underlining the word. The sky was clear- there were absolutely no other clouds in the sky, other than low on the horizon to the west there was a thin bank of clouds lit by the setting sun. Gradually the name slid to the left going out of sight around the bend in the forested road. As we walked around the bend perhaps two minutes later, there was not a scrap of cloud in the sky. I was not nearly as blown away at that time as I am now. Somehow then it was more funny than anything else- as in, 'Isn't that just like Earl!'. Now, of course, from time to time, one of us will say, 'Did we really see that?' And yes. We did. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 22 Jul 03 - 01:37 PM I haven't ever seen anything, that I know of. I'm more prone to feeling things. And once in awhile in our old house, there are sounds with no obvious explanation... like things falling on the floor in the kitchen, with nothing out of place, and the cat sitting right next to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: Amos Date: 21 Jul 03 - 11:52 PM LOL, Sinsull!! Some cat!!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: LadyJean Date: 21 Jul 03 - 11:22 PM The Dinsmore house is a historic home in Northern Kentucky. The Dinsmores were packrats, which is making many historians very happy. One of the things they saved was a pre-indoor plumbing bathtub. It looks like a regular tub, only with now faucets, and wheels and a handle like a coaster wagon in the attic. One of the volunteers took a picture of it. When the photgraph was developed, there was a face in the attic window. It was one of the Dinsmores, long since dead and buried in the family graveyard up the hill from the house. I figure he just wondered why this girl was so interested in a bathtub. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: SINSULL Date: 21 Jul 03 - 08:10 PM Some of you know that I recently bought a house in Maine. Not a very old house and no murders or deaths related to it. About a month ago I discovered a drawer open in the kitchen when I came in for morning coffee. I wondered, closed it, and thought nothing more about it. Next morning two drawers were opened. I checked to see if they were loose - maybe a passing truck caused a vibration? This went on for a while until one morning, as I stood in front of them, one drawer after the other opened quietly. I was more than a bit rattled. It reminded me of that kitchen scene in Poltergeist. Well, my poltergeist made an immediate appearance. Freddie the Cat came out from under the sink and the door snapped shut behind him. He had figured out how to open the door, get in behind the drawers, and push them out. Why? Because he could. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 21 Jul 03 - 04:57 PM If any of you can get yer auld grannie's ghost to put in an appearance for sane people to experience, there's a million dollars waiting for you here |
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Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal From: katlaughing Date: 21 Jul 03 - 12:04 AM Here's one I told around the Mudcat Campfire back in '99. More, later. Great thread! |
