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BS: lower case posts with no punctuation
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Mark Cohen Date: 10 Jul 01 - 11:09 PM Most of my patients are too young for this Forum, Rob. But they'd probably appreciate the admiration! Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: wysiwyg Date: 10 Jul 01 - 01:15 PM RELATED THREAD.
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Geoff the Duck Date: 06 Jul 01 - 11:04 AM tHE ONE WHICH ANNOYS ME iS WHEN THE COMPUTER DECIDES TO sWITCH TO cAPS lOCK WHEN i AIN'T LOOKING! Quack! |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Jack the Sailor Date: 05 Jul 01 - 11:10 AM if youve red this far i admire UR patients |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Angie Date: 05 Jul 01 - 10:32 AM i'm just too lazy to care |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: katlaughing Date: 05 Jul 01 - 03:23 AM McGrath, better they should use a real character on the packages in the name of Alferd (sic) Packer. He's even got a song about him by Phil Ochs which could be tied in.:-) BTW, wouldn't a "pig's ear of a long post" have been best? |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Crazy Eddie Date: 05 Jul 01 - 02:27 AM Dave O: A "long pigs-ear of a posting" might have been better. Shouldn't that read "long pig's-ear of a posting" ? :o) Pedantic Eddie
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Amos Date: 04 Jul 01 - 01:33 PM Given the basic ability -- to type comfortably and handle English comfortably -- why not strive within reason to make your communications more effective? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jul 01 - 01:06 PM Whether you use the keyboard or a voice-recogniton program, you should still read it over and do a bit of editing to make sure that it clearly says what you want it to say. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 04 Jul 01 - 11:08 AM Lyndi-Loo: A "long pigs-ear of a posting" might have been better. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Les from Hull Date: 04 Jul 01 - 11:03 AM McGrath - you can switch the grammar checker off, or you can switch off the bits that you don't like. I can't believe it, I'm sticking up for Microsoft :o( |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Jul 01 - 10:16 AM (Thread drifty) I've always thought there could be a big market for Cannibal Crisps, with authentic artificial human-flavour. You can already get hedgehog-flavour crisps on the same principle, guaranteed to contain no real hedgehog but to taste the same as if they did.
Kids would love them You could have a picture of Hannibal Lector on the packets confirming that the taste was accurate...
When I write stuff on Word it keeps on trying to correct my grammar. I resent that a little, because I think my grammar is better than that of Word. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Gervase Date: 04 Jul 01 - 07:40 AM Different? Could be tasty in some parts of Polynesia! The idea of human pork scratchings doesn't do much for me, though :^) |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Lyndi-loo Date: 04 Jul 01 - 07:27 AM Whoops, I meant "recognition". This keyboard can't spell for toffee! |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Lyndi-loo Date: 04 Jul 01 - 07:26 AM I don't like the idea of posting via a speech regonition device. My God, people would ramble on for hours and as people generally speak less grammatically than they write, the result would be a long, pig's ear of a posting that nobody could be bothered to read.(I just noticed there I had to put in a comma between long and pig otherwise the meaning would be totally different!) *BG* LL |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Bill D Date: 03 Jul 01 - 01:22 PM grammar checkers are 'down the road' a bit, I'm afraid, and I will tolerate those who obviously haven't had the education/practice .......but as I have posted several times, if you have a PC, a spelling checker for typing right HERE, in this box, is only as far away as this clicky FREE spelling checker...for several languages. as to lack of capitals OR ALL CAPS, that is a matter of attitude and, perhaps, in the case of e.e. cummings and tex, a matter of taste/art. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: katlaughing Date: 03 Jul 01 - 01:10 PM Dragon Naturally Speaking is expensive, but the trial version I tried out did a good job of speech recognition, too. Saves on repetitive movement syndromes, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: bbc Date: 03 Jul 01 - 01:09 PM True enough, Don. There are certainly times I get aggravated trying to understand what's being said through the idiosyncrasies. It's always our choice to not read. I've embarrassed myself a few times, though, assuming that something was done by choice when, in fact, it was the best that person could manage. I'd prefer to give the benefit of the doubt. And, yes, you are right, Mary. Many times, those w/ problems try harder than others. The world's a big place w/ many kinds in it. Let's just continue to be aware of that fact. I love the broadness of the world Mudcat puts me in touch w/--more than my day-to-day life ever could! best, bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 03 Jul 01 - 01:02 PM Speaking as one with minimal disabilities myself, I've observed that people with disabilities are usually the ones who spend extra time making their communications understandable, ie whatever it takes to blend in and not appear different from others. My 82-year-old uncle who sends me email spends a lot of time hunting and pecking his letters, and I've seen improvement as he learns to type faster. His letters are longer now! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jul 01 - 12:23 PM bbc, I agree with what you say, and I am not angry or hostile. My concern is as follows: you say On Mudcat, though, I am interested in *what* people say, not how they say it. Me also. The problem is that sometimes whatsomeone says is rendered so difficult to figure out by the way they say it that I wonder if I want to be bothered to spend the time and effort to decode it. If a person is challenged in some way, that's one thing. But if one really wishes to be understood, I think they should at least make minimal effort to be understandable. Seems simple enough to me. "Style" is fine. But when style interferes with comprehensibility, it defeats the purpose. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Gervase Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:38 AM Speech recognition software's getting better all the time. I've tried out IBM's ViaVoice on a couple of Macs and been impressed by the results. The program has to "learn" the user's voice pattern, and the more time spent "coaching" it the better the end result, but it does allow you to blather away to the machine and see the results as text, complete with proper capitalisation, punctuation and formatting. For meself I still prefer to type (particularly as colleagues could be puzzled if I start ranting at the screen when posting here!), and I don't think any program is yet able to write HTML - which means that even a post written by a speech-recognition program would need to be tweaked and formatted with the line-breaks and other odds and sods. But if your not a natural with the tripewriter, then ViaVoice (or its rival, Dragon Dictate) would seem a pretty good alternative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Kim C Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:30 AM Good writing skills are important. But not everyone has them, and some people never learn. At least us math-impaired folks have the advantage of the hand-held calculator, without which I would be a complete and total mathematical idiot. I don't think any of my pards think less of me because my math skills aren't too great. Now, if we could come up with a spell/grammar check that actually WORKED............. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Les from Hull Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:20 AM Well I've also stayed out of this so far, but here's my two small copper coins worth. I'm more interested in what people have to say, than in the way they say it. Personally I don't care too much how people post (although all capital letters is hard to read, so I probably won't). Like many of us say, there may be all sorts of reasons why people write the way they do. But like others here, I suspect, I'm much more impressed by well-written, correctly typed and spelt postings. I can't help it. It's the way I am. I used to teach effective writing, so I'm glad to see when people have writing skills and use them. If people are interested enough, they will improve their writing skills. There are classes, books and tutoring available, the same as for musical skills. It's a useful life skill, being able to write well. It's one I would certainly recommend. But it's not often vital. Les |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: katlaughing Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:00 AM well-said, bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: bbc Date: 03 Jul 01 - 09:45 AM Maybe it's just me. This is the 2nd thread I've opened today that seems to have a lot of anger in it. You might want to think *why* the way others post makes you angry. Like Kim, I was an English major. I also took typing in school. As long as I can figure out what something says, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about how it was written. I do have some concerns about society, since it doesn't seem that kids are being taught spelling & grammar anymore. Many of the teachers of my generation seem to have little grasp of proper sentence form. On Mudcat, though, I am interested in *what* people say, not how they say it. The things that concern me are negative attitudes & emotions. Out-of-the-norm structure could be caused by so many things of which we are unaware--lack of education, non-English speakers, learning disabilities, physical disabilities, etc. Do you want to inhibit such folks from joining our discussions? I don't. respectfully, bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Murray MacLeod Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:22 PM Wasn't going to mention this, kinda hoped the thread would die, but the author of Archie and Mehitabel has twice been misspelt as Dom Marquis. He was in fact as I recollect, Don Marquis. "Dom Marquis" would probably be a kewl title for a musical about the life and times of de Sade, however. Murray Anal Retentive Avec Portfolio |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Amos Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:13 PM For those who wish to continue citing the cockroach, please note it is "toujours" and "gai", meaning "keep on smilin'" or "keep your pecker up" or "always lighthearted" or something of the kind. "Toujours" is a contraction (well, maybe a compression) of tous les jours and "gai" means gay in the old-fashioned cheery sense.:>) Walther P. Picky-Picky |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Áine Date: 02 Jul 01 - 06:07 PM Dear Murray, I humbly beg your pardon for puttin' a twist in your britches and using lower case in some of my postings. I confess, in front of God and the Mudcat, that I have typed without using the Shift key -- mea culpa. However, I have done this terrible thing to communicate to a fellow 'Catter, shamefully neglecting to use my little finger on the keyboard, only as an homage to Dom Marquis (and, of course, archie and mehitabel); an author and characters which are dear to myself and the 'Catter who shall not be named. Please accept my apologia for distressing you. I did not know what I did do. However, I shall remain 'tourjour gay, tourjour gay' and assume my very small identity and similarly small typing style when it suits me. as for yourself, dear murray, take the bosses advice and 'skip it' if it bothers you too much -- otherwise, i'll have to sic mehitabel on ya... -- Áine |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Kim C Date: 02 Jul 01 - 05:33 PM I was an English major so of course I can appreciate good punctuation and spelieeng Seriously... I guess many of us have our own unique way of speaking, and some may want that to translate to the written word. My brother, who just turned 46, is new to computers and e-mail and all that. He doesn't type too well. But he ain't heavy, so I don't hold it agin him. ;-) Also I think there is a difference between formal and informal speech/writing, and that there is a time and place for each. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jul 01 - 04:14 PM For a new paragraph you put a P (or p)in those angle brackets instead of a BR - or do it with BR (or br) twice. The single BR is what you need when you need to make it a new line in a song or poem.
Sooner or later we'll get some joker who decides the way to get noticed is to switch the lower case and upper case around.
tHIS IS THE KIND OF THING i MEAN... |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:37 PM "So perhaps it is a wise course not to be overly judgmental and condescending until the rights of the matter are really clear." Yes, once we are sure what's right, then we want to go ahead and be as judgmental and condescending as we like. Really? There'a new goal to shoot for! ;~) ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: katlaughing Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:28 PM thanks fer thet, Tex yer a real gentleman with the accent to prove it, I'll bet 'course, so's McGrath, defending m'carcass i reckon we've all got our foibles so let's not loose the foils nor slings and arrows just doing our best and being kewl!**BG** |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: marty D Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:24 PM Hang tough Murray. Even if some people aren't doing it on purpose due to lack of keyboard skills or various ailments, it still LOOKS like the rapid 'Dumbing Down' that makes some of us shake our heads in wonder. The problem of course is that in this day and age ANY suggestion that implies people could try harder, immediately becomes a 'Political issue'. I sure don't have it all together as far as grammatical or spelling skills, but I at least re-read what I've written a couple of times before pushing the button. Still get in trouble now and then though! marty |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: texastoolman Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:35 PM good for you amos you understand what i'm doing as well i am a poet by nature have been since my teen-age years i have and will cotinue to write in this fashion i imagine i talk the same way those who don't like my writing probably wouldn't like my accent either t s (tough situation) in regards murray's comment about my typo as dylan said "you're a cow" not kat ................................tex |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Don Firth Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:30 PM If I have something to say that I feel is worth saying, I try to say it as clearly and understandably as possible. Why make it difficult if you are really trying to communicate? Unique style is one thing. If consistent, it can be polished until it's understandable. That's what Don Marquis and e.e.cummings did. That's far different from just being a lazy slob. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:22 PM A line break is a bit of HTML that looks like this: <br> With the text entry system at Mudcat, text that is not separated by one blank line will appear as one big chunk in the final post unless HTML such as the line break is added - you've probably seen lyric posts where all the lines of a verse appear as one line of text or as a paragraph. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: chip a Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:07 PM Hooray for you, Geoff the Duck! I couldn't agree more. Lets remember that we're not talking to ourselves here. I don't mind reading posts written in all lower case or any other way if I don't have to struggle to understand them. If it's hard to read, I skip it and go on. I never learned how to write and use punctuation very well during my short stay in public school. I'll bet there are lots of others like me who are doing their best even if it's not up to the standards of the grammar police. I do try to make it readable though. What's a line break? Chip A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: CET Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:36 AM Sigh. I'm an editor by trade. Part of my job is teaching Canadian Forces members and federal civil servants to write plain English. Every group includes somebody who says, "Why do I have to bother with [punctuation, capitalization, etc.--skill he or she lacks] when people understand me?" I always reply, "How do you know they understand you? Have you asked them all?" And, sure enough, I soon find that many are accustomed to handling barrages of telephone calls and e-mails demanding clarification of their written instructions, requests and explanations. I do my level best to teach them to get to the point, and explain that point in simple sentences following the conventions of written English, so their work can be done with the release of the original message. Many people believe that writing in a fancy or complex way makes them seem more interesting or appealing. I think that this is a delusion, and that people who use odd or contrived writing styles -- including those writing e-mails and Internet posts -- do so for one of two reasons: they don't know enough words, or they are not taking the trouble to use the words they know. In my admittedly arrogant opinion. Charmion |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Amos Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:29 AM As with any symbol system, especially a rich and flexible one like English, you have to differentiate in receiving posts between the intention to communicate genuinely but with a creative flourish, as in Tex' cummings-like poems, and the kind of insitutionalized attitude of neglect and indifferent passive-aggression which someone else might demonstrate by typing in all lower case because he "just didn't care" to use a convention. Similar symptom, totally different cause, and what is really interesting is that we can and do detect the difference with a fairly high degree of accuracy. When we get it wrong, and start treating a poetic flourish as a case of disrespectful ignoral of standard conventions, then, of course, we can really embarass ourselves. So perhaps it is a wise course not to be overly judgmental and condescending until the rights of the matter are really clear. And e.e.cummings was not being pretentious, IMHO; he was being genuinely poetic in a direction not taken before. Bear in mind he preceded the Beat generation and their experimental typefaces by 20 years or perhaps a bit less; and I believe that his experiment was actually a success in that it opened a new modality to poetry. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:07 AM McGrath, you're certainly not alone as I skip them too. That is unless I can see that someone has not left a blank line between paragraphs or alternatively has failed to use line breaks. In these instances, as a general rule, I edit the post to make it easier for all to read. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Jim Dixon Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:04 AM How come "kewl" isn't spelled "QL"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Bill D Date: 02 Jul 01 - 10:35 AM and a big QUACK of agreement to Geoff the Duck...well said! Slang, cant, dialect, jargon and random spelling & punctuation are perfectly useful and acceptable in some circumstances, but I simply do NOT understand folks who cannot (or will not) make the effort to be comprehensible to those who don't know the code. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jul 01 - 07:39 AM What really makes it difficult to read is when people write long posts without putting in paragraph breaks. That is no doubt sometimes because they don't know how to - but I find I tend to skip right over the posts, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Geoff the Duck Date: 02 Jul 01 - 07:20 AM In my experience of life, my purpose in talking to someone was to communicate ideas. If you wish to transfer an idea, then you must be understood by the recipient of the idea. If you know the person well, you will have a commonality of experiences including language, slang terms and shortcuts of expression. In that circumstance it is appropriate to use these shortcuts and slang terms. If I am speaking to a stranger, I try to use an even tone of voice, and restrict my vocabulary to words likely to be in common parlance. It is polite, and also my meaning is more likely to be understood. It shows that you respect the needs of the other person! I could speak in Dailect or use only Technical Jargon, but I choose not to out of consideration to my audience, and also because there is no point in me speaking if I do not intend to be understood!!! My suggestion to the low(ercase)lifes who do not use any capitals or punctuation would be. Please treat ME with some respect! What is the point of wasting your time posting if we are going to automatically ignore unintelligible gibberish? Quack!!! GtD |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jul 01 - 07:13 AM after all we are all human *beans* says kat.
I wouldn't bet on it myself.
My screen spelling used to be diabolical. I have no difficulty in spelling, but my fingers stray, and somehow on the screen my eyes don't pick up the typos. But then I found a little spellchecker that works with writing posts, and it makes life a lot easier for anybody trying to read what I've written - and it spots any Upper Case letters I've missed as well, or inappropriately put in.
I don't find it any quicker to leave out capitals letters. I suppose if I only had one hand I might, but typing with two fingers, one on each hand it is just as quick. After all, you can only put in one letter at a time, and whether it is upper case or lower case makes no difference to that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Gervase Date: 02 Jul 01 - 06:24 AM Iy may be quicker, but it does take longer to read and the point of the posting is harder to get. I'm with Jon on this - I imagine it's harder for people for whom English isn't their first language to get their heads around postings which have no caps or punctuation. The best thing would be if everyone was taught basic keyboard skills at primary school level. I'm lucky enough to been taught to touch-type on an old-fashioned manual tripewriter, but it wasn't The only problem is, because typing becomes an extension of thinking, sometimes I tend to ramble on and on and on and ... ...at which helpful nurse slams lid of laptop down on crazed fingers and administers large tranquilliser... I had a problem with wordsrunningtogether once when I spilled tea on the keyboard and buggered up the space bar. It drove me completely mad, so I can't imagine what sort of mind would actually want to type like that! |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: The Cat's Whiskers Date: 02 Jul 01 - 06:21 AM Lack of punctuation has it's merits I guess, it's the abreviations like "m8", "r", "u", "b4" and "2k1" that REALLY piss me off! What do you think of smileys?? :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: ard mhacha Date: 02 Jul 01 - 06:08 AM Hello All, A very nice debate, but , please tell me why almost everyone refers to an interesting, good etc, subject as COOL. When I was young anything good was referred to as s--t hot, sounds a dam more descriptive than CCCCOOL, anyway, even in Summer here its always bloody CCCCOOL. Slan Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Firecat Date: 02 Jul 01 - 05:56 AM the only reason people post in lower case letters and without punctuation a lot of the time is because its a lot quicker and easier itsevenquickerandeasierbynotevenputtingspacesineventhoughthewritingcanturnouttonotbethateasytoread Right, back to normal then! |
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Subject: RE: BS: lower case posts with no punctuation From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Jul 01 - 04:05 AM \have you read the new book by jeff noone\ \its very weird because it has no capitals or puntuation\ \apart from back-slashes\ \and carriage returns\ His earlier books are grammaticaly normal even if the stories are a bit strange. I have not yet started this one but it seems to be about the music business. Is the '\' and absense of any other punctuation anything to do with that? How rap songs are written? Modern day parlance? Or am I completely daft? Cheers DtG |