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POVERTY
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: hesperis Date: 17 Jul 01 - 04:35 PM Government cannot give enough for a basic level of income to ALL the people who need it. There are just too many who need it, and too much money that "needs" to be spent on lovely stuff like nuclear weapons. So people only get enough food for one to three weeks of every month, when we already have enough weaponry to blow this whole planet up. Yay. Ain't government grand? |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: GUEST,plopez Date: 09 Jul 01 - 01:36 AM Money can't buy hapines (though you can rent it by the hour ;) P. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Ebbie Date: 08 Jul 01 - 01:26 AM Some of the lifestyle values that we in the US so admire are not by choice. In the Philippines most families take care of their elderly parents and grandparents, whether it means taking them into their homes or by supporting them in their own. But if they don't, the elders starve- there aren't governmental services for the purpose. I'm told that the situation is basically the same in Poland, that if you are rich enough, your parent can gain entry to a nursing home, but if you don't have the money, they can't. Ebbie
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: DougR Date: 08 Jul 01 - 12:18 AM Thosp: San Juan. I did consulting for the National Endowment for the Arts on the Puerto Rico Symphony. I was there in the 70's but for no more than a week at at a time. DougR |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: thosp Date: 07 Jul 01 - 08:35 PM DougR --- where in puerto rico did you spend time -- i lived in pr for a couple of years in my youth ---- early 60's peace (Y) thosp |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: CarolC Date: 07 Jul 01 - 08:31 PM Doug R, I'm already getting all of the aid I'm eligible for. And yes, my situation is terrible. If it weren't for the Mudcat, I think I would probably go mad. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: DougR Date: 07 Jul 01 - 08:20 PM CarolC: don't you qualify for some kind of state aid? Your situation is terrible! Rick: yeah, I told everybody early in the thread as a conservative, I'm rich (just not in dollars) I don't know about the Condo, but I think I know where you might be able to find a condom. (You mind if it's been used?) Just kidding, of course. We have some great buys in Condos out here in the desert! DougR |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: CarolC Date: 07 Jul 01 - 07:03 PM Here, not all education is free, but if your income is low enough, you can get enough grants to pay for tuition to go to schools that are not very expensive. But the living expenses can be difficult. Many people take out student loans and are deeply in debt by the time they get their bachelors degrees. In my own case, my tuition costs and books are paid for as well as some of my living expenses, but my health problems make it impossible for me to carry more than six credit hours at a time, and sometimes they prevent me from being in school altogether. So that's my catch 22. With more money, I could afford to get the help I need for my health problems, but I need to finish my schooling before I can get more money. It sound to me like, for poor people at any rate, the US and Cuba come out about even in terms of getting basic needs met. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jul 01 - 06:44 PM I would sure like to sit down for a couple of hours with your friend Bob Biderman, Rick, and compare notes on Cuba...I've thought of teaching there myself...English, that is... Carol - In Cuba, all your medical care (including dental) is free, although medicine may not be...and the medical treatment is modern and good, I hear. Your main expenses there are food, clothing, and daily household sundries. That's what the Cubans I knew said they spent most of their money on. Rent and Hydro and stuff like that are very cheap. All levels of education are free also, but...many who would like to go to university can't afford to buy the books and keep themselves fed and all that, while taking the courses....so for them, it's a sort of catch-22 situation. So near and yet so far - LH |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: CarolC Date: 07 Jul 01 - 06:22 PM I have to say that I agree with you in principle about focusing on the positive, kat/katlaughing. However, I think maybe it's a good thing for people look at things in new ways from time to time. Maybe this thread will help people to do some of that. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Rick Fielding Date: 07 Jul 01 - 06:19 PM Jeez Doug, I forgot. being a Conservative you must be part of that .00000000001 that Dubya gave the tax break to. Please buy me a Martin D-45, and a bicycle, and a condom, oops, condo! Actually most of the rich people I know are pretty centrist in their politics (in the States that would be to the left of Leon Trotsky). Course the REAL conservatives around here don't waste their time on "folk trash" like moi......but as long as they buy a CD (mine) occasionally. LH, my friend Bob Biderman has just gotten back from a year teaching in Cuba. I'm looking forward to hearing about his adventures. Being a "cynical" leftie, I'll not be afraid to ask the hard questions. Rick (poor but USUALLY honest!) |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: katlaughing Date: 07 Jul 01 - 05:53 PM TishA asked about "Homeless." Just want you to know Mudcatter Homeless is doing well; just a bit busy at the moment with work and other stuff. I would prefer to see a thread titled PROSPERITY for I prefer to focus my mind, when I am able, on the more positive side of life. I confess, though, had a more ready dosh at the moment, my life would be much, much simpler. kat |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: CarolC Date: 07 Jul 01 - 05:39 PM Doug R, I hate to break it too you, but it's not significantly better here in the US for people like me who are disabled and don't have much or any help from relatives, than it is for retirees in Cuba. In fact, people like me aren't allowed to get help from relatives.
I don't have a car. I don't have access to public transportation. I don't have access to dental care, and I badly need it. Fresh vegetables are a luxury for me. I sometimes run out of food and money before the end of the month. And there are medicines and kinds of medical care that I don't have access to. Cuba might be an improvement for me. I think they, at least, have dental care.
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: DougR Date: 07 Jul 01 - 05:24 PM LH: I've spent some time in Puerto Rico. Have you been there? I wonder if there is a similarity betweet the two islands. Certainly there is a great deal of poverty in Puerto Rico. One thing in the article really impressed me. The feeling of family, and the willingness of family to help the old folks. It used to be that way more in the U. S. than it is now, I think. It used to be common for children to take old folks into their home when they reached the age where they couldn't care for themselves. Now it's off to the nursing home for them. I have mixed feelings, though, because I wouldn't want to be dependent or a burden on my kids when I reach that stage (assuming I do). DougR |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: thosp Date: 07 Jul 01 - 03:56 PM it's no bed of roses for many retirees in the usa also -- peace (Y) thosp |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jul 01 - 03:37 PM You're absolutely right about that, Doug! The article is accurate. Old people without younger relatives to help them are in a bad spot. I was keenly aware of the plight of retirees when I was in Cuba, because the people I was staying with were delivering "meals on wheels" to a number of retired people who were in desperate straits. Many old people have committed suicide because they can't afford to feed themselves. What has happened is that the Peso was allowed some years ago to float against the US dollar, and promptly lost virtually all value. The old people's pensions are still in Pesos. Presto! Instant poverty. I believe something similar has happened in Russia since 1989, which is when hard times began for Cuba. The pensions were quite adequate until the Peso was allowed to float...now they are entirely inadequate. Everyone down there wants American dollars, not Pesos. Cuba has become a victim, not of its own socialism (which has done a great deal for the people), but of huge changes in the world geopolitical situation outside of Cuba. This doesn't change the fact that they still take care of the general population far better than does most of the rest of Latin America, where you will also find old people (and young people) in desperate straits. I will never claim that Cuba is perfect...far from it. For the old people now, it is a very bad situation. I was among a very highly motivated, extraordinary group of people when I stayed there. That's partly why I was so happy there. Then too, there's just something about the place that I like, in a general sense...and that's the basic feeling of equality and good humour that one finds there. I have never been anywhere where I saw less evidence of racial prejudice in people...for example. Retired people in Canada aren't doing so well either, I'm afraid, in way too many cases. I fear for my own old age the way things are going here. - LH |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: DougR Date: 07 Jul 01 - 02:32 PM LH: knowing of your affinity for anything Cuban, a headline from this morning's newspaper caught my eye: ELDERLY CUBANS FIND THEIR GOLDEN YEARS TARNISHED. The article is reprinted from the Chicago Tribune, so it may be available in your area. Your comment above relating that one of the happiest weeks of your life was spent in Cuba, and words to the effect that though we would consider the folks paupers, they certainly had everything they needed, and then some, would lead me to believe that you spent little time with Cuba's retired population. There is a mandatory retirment age in Cuba. For men, it is 60, and for women 55 (no discrimination there, right?) Anyway, the article reports on the life after retiremnt of one Aaron Espinosa, a retired bus driver who lives alone. His situation is offered as an exmaple of the plight of the retirees in Cuba. The article states that although his rent and electricity are subsidized and cheap, Espinosa's ration card gives him only enough food for about two weeks a month. Sometimes he survives on just a meal or two meals a day; other times he gardens and does painting for neighbors to pay for medicine, extra food or clothing. Although the government offers free medical care, many medicines are sold only for dollars and are priced out of a retiree's reach. If one were to believe the information in the article, it would be hard to agree that "they certainly had everything they needed, and then some." Again, I realize you many not have been exposed to retirees when you were in Cuba, and your statement may relate only to those who still work. DougR |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: thosp Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:58 PM "i've been rich and i've been poor, believe me rich is better" Sophie Tucker |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Naemanson Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:45 PM My father says, "If it cost a nickel to go around the world I couldn't get out of sight!" As with Amos I am poverty stricken while providing for my daughters. But in 5 more years my salary becomes my own! |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jul 01 - 11:37 AM Wasn't it Neil Young who wrote "Lust Never Sleeps"? It was a big hit in China. - LH |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Jul 01 - 11:26 AM Very interesting. There is another no-opening-post thread running that just pissed people off. On reflection, I think the two threads illustrate the difference between good BS and bad BS-- does it inspire song or even discussion of songs related to the topic? This one sure did. Since "poverty" is a frequent topic of folk song, maybe the person thought desire would evoke a similar response. Of course if so, the problem was the title-- shouldda been LUST if that was the point. On the other hand, this isn't a country music site, and folksongs are a little harder to cram into a pigeonhole-- you know the old thing about country songs, that a tune has to have a truck, a woman, and a train in it (or something like that, I forget). ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: kendall Date: 07 Jul 01 - 09:01 AM LUXURY!! there were 50 of us, and we lived in a shoebox in the middle of the road! |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 06 Jul 01 - 11:09 PM One of my favourite Monty Python sketches, is the one were a man says "When we were young we were so poor we had no ventral heating in our house" his friend says "A house! you were lucky, we used to live in a matchbox" his other friend says "A matchbox! you were lucky, we used to live in a puddle" and so it goes on.Sorry I cant remember the rest of it but its really funny. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Amos Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:21 PM Well, I gotta say that I don't have no splashing cash either, but I do rub my nose in a damn CRT 40 hrs a week to keep a roof over my head and give my girlchile the luxury of wasting a chance to go to college. After all, that's what I had!!! And franly I would rather have more dought han less, but that's just me. I think I can trust myself to make more friends. A |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Nathan in Texas Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:15 PM Nothin' ain't worth nothin', but it's free. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Bill D Date: 06 Jul 01 - 08:28 PM ¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢ |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: CarolC Date: 06 Jul 01 - 08:11 PM Is that US or Canadian? |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:32 PM Speaking of which, where's that 25 cents you owe me? :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: CarolC Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:16 PM Bill D, what world are you living in? Even when you're broke they don't leave you alone. They're relentless. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Bill D Date: 06 Jul 01 - 05:44 PM well, as friend of mine is fond of saying.."...why, there's tens od dollars to be made in folk music!" |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jul 01 - 05:42 PM The happiest week I have ever spent was among Cubans, and they were all paupers in our terms...only in the sense that they had very little money, however. They certainly had everything they actually needed, and then some. - LH |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: John MacKenzie Date: 06 Jul 01 - 05:36 PM Poverty poverty knock Jock |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:56 PM Poverty, Equality, Fraternity. (Liberty comes with the package.)
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Rick Fielding Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:41 PM Yeah, occasionally a thread like this is POIFECT! I started out upper middle class with grand prospects (age 0 to 18) By then, could sing and play folksongs. It's been downhill ever since. Seems the poorer I get financially, the happier I get emotionally. When the wolf gets to the door he'll wonder why I'm laughing hysterically! What the Hell, if ya got a roof over your head, a good (preferably 'ol) geetar and friends, yer laughin! Rick |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Bill D Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:24 PM line from some old movie... "If a round trip on the Queen Mary were $10, I couldn't buy a one-way ticket on the Staten Island ferry." *remembering the days when it was REALLY bad, I developed a theory...being totally broke is relatively easier. If you have NOTHING, they leave you alone....if you get a few $$$$, you have a line of creditors, all demanding you give it to them!* |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: UB Ed Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:14 PM Oh. I guess that's why we have to "Think" about it. Contemplation toward self-awareness. Heavy stuff for Friday; off to get the kids! |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: kendall Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:03 PM I think it means that, well, as briefly as possible, If you dont know where you are,dont know how you got there, you cant know where you are going. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: UB Ed Date: 06 Jul 01 - 03:28 PM Kendall, please do.... |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Mark Clark Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:42 PM Good one, Art. I read that California wants to gear up for their own ethanol production. I guess they want to provide the Napa Valley vinyards with a secondary market. <g> - Mark |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: GUEST,Kaleb Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:38 PM I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left... |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Kim C Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:47 PM "If the devil danced in empty pockets, he'd have a ball in mine..........." |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: kendall Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:56 AM May I guess what Harpgirl means? |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Art Thieme Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:45 AM 51 |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: MMario Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:45 AM rich - not even close....I suspect a thread with no title and no post would garner a few answers... |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Matt_R Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:44 AM I think so! It's almost like a given discussion topic. I love these kinds of threads...where 'Catters can turn and empty thread with just a subject line, as you said, and fill it with everything from old-time humor to puns to song lyrics to real-life experiences, not to mention Art Thieme's contributions. Amazing. To quote the Holiday Inn commercial: "Rock on man!" --Matt |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Kim C Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:42 AM "A toast to my big brother George - the richest man in town." For those of you who don't know, that's a line from my all-time favorite movie, It's a Wonderful Life. When I was younger I loved it for its sappiness. Nowadays, I love it for its truth. George Bailey didn't have money, but he had all the things that really mattered; and because he had been a friend to many, they came to his aid when he was in trouble. And that line never fails to make me sob. It's the people who make my life joyous that are my greatest wealth. |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: GUEST Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:39 AM Is this a mudcat record? A Thread started by a posting with *nothing* in it, and over 50 people reply! :) Rich |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Art Thieme Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:39 AM Mark, Midwest version (Illinois and Iowa):
Hard luck papa Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Ringer Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:38 AM OK - I'm thinking, Harpgirl. Is the wink a clue? |
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Subject: RE: POVERTY From: Art Thieme Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:34 AM How 'bout them dirt daubbers, ain't they neat, Daoubin' that dirt down with they feet, Daubin' it up and daubin' it down, Daubin' to keep 'em out of town, If they come around then we gonna leave, Can't have 'em bringin" what's us they sleeves, If you wanna be a dirt dauber, hell, that's up to you, If you don't mind that crap on yo shoe, ... Art |
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