Weird search results... (English Civil War)

Subject: wierd search results...
From: MMario
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 09:38 AM

was just searching for songs from the English Civil War - and though can literally find thousands of pages re: the War of Northern Agression/American Civil War/The War between the States - next to nothing on the English Civil War.

anyone that can point me toward so web resources on the songs from that period? I can't believe there isn't stuff posted out there.

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 09:49 AM

Sometimes you have to be a bit clever with searches. Try Oliver Cromwell or King Charles 1st and you will get some hits. Civil War - even with English will be so flooded with US results, you won't see the English ones for dust.

Alternately, you could start using Vivisimo, which "intelligently" categorises your search results. This can sometimes be very helpful.

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: UB Ed
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 09:53 AM

Sorry for no blue clickies:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~crossby/ECW/
http://www.proweb.co.uk/~roymat/civilw/civilw.html
http://www.cfcsc.dnd.ca/links/milhist/engciv.html

These came up fairly quickly via dogpile.com, searching "Engalnd"+"Civil War". If you add "Songs" the search yields less. May be best place to start.

Good luck.

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: MMario
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 09:54 AM

that's what is so wierd...I use a search with "exact phrase" - and "songs of the English Civil War" yielded a total of THREE......

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 09:57 AM

You might try searching the ballad indices for the dates--1642-1650. Don't know if Bodlean is set up to search that way, but Levy is (yea, I know Levy is American only)

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 10:00 AM

MMario

"Cavalier Songs" or "Roundhead Songs" will bring you back some of the stuff you want, including these

Civil War Songbook
Cavalier Ballads
Mackay

Roundhead is not so good as there was a punk band of that name!

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 10:04 AM

Aha! Use the "browse" function at Bodleian and choose Date from the pull down menu, then where it says From: use 1642.

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 10:07 AM

MMario

Most search engines ignore "exact phrase" when sent to them. They just do an all-word match. I've got used to this when using WebFerret!

Cheers!
Ian

BTW the "Civil War Songbook" link just points to one of the songs. You have to "peel" the link back (sorry). Also, some HTML genius may find I have hidden some more links under the 3 you have ?help?

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 10:10 AM

Civil War Songbook main index page.

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: MMario
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 10:22 AM

grazie all - sorry - one of my cousins is using the family brain cell today - I guess...

that's my story and I'm sticking to it

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: Noreen
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:23 AM

Ian, the two other 'links' you posted were nude... no URL or title... must have been lost for words!

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:28 AM

Oh hell ... there was some stuff but I must have deleted the ones with anything in instead of the empty ones (I was using a cut & paste template. Just shows you can get too clever!

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: Noreen
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 12:01 PM

:0)

Ian, View Source enables you to see what HTML you actually submitted- and nick other peoples' clever HTML!

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 12:11 PM

I didn't have any trouble with the second one but it only takes you to the front page, the Song Index is at the bottom of that page.

Subject: Lyr Add: RED AND GOLD (Ralph McTell)
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 12:15 PM

Mmario, are you familiar with Fairport Convention's song "Red and Gold"? It's not FROM the E.C.W., but it's ABOUT the E.C.W. And a fine song at that, too.

Red and Gold
Ralph McTell

Red and bold are royal colours,
Peasant colours are green and brown
Green is the corn in the brown earth when it's growing
Red and gold when the harvest is cut down.

Through Cropredy in Oxfordshire the Cherwell takes its course
And the willows weep into its waters clear
My name it is Will Timms; it's here that I was born
And raised in faith my king and God to fear.

In 1644 the king in Oxford town did dwell
Though we'd heard that Cromwell's army was nearby
It did not occur to me that little Cropredy
Could be witness to the meeting of both sides.

On June the 29th that year I was about my work
Cutting hedges in a meadow by the stream
My blade slipped, I cut my hand; my own dear blood did flow
Upon the brown earth, and the corn still green.

Now it did distress me so to watch my own blood flow
And quickly soak into the greedy ground
In red and gold my colours swam, and sweat broke on my brow
And, faint, I knew that I must lay me down.

At first I thought the thundering was just inside my head
So I raised myself above the hedge to see
And I watched as in a dream as the armies fought downstream
The battle for the bridge at Cropredy.

Now the king's men fought in red and gold
Though Cromwells men were plainer
The blood they spilled was coloured just the same
Through the hedgerows fragile cover, I saw brother killing brother
And all of this was done in Jesus' name.

All that day and all the next the battle it was raging
Though when darkness came, I slipped away
But the crying of the dying kept me wakeful and just lying
In my bed until the dawning of the day.

And the dreams I had were red and gold
And the little stream became a flood
From all my brothers killing one another
Till waking, I relised it's all my own dear blood.

Now some were buried in the church and some just where they fell
With no markers to declare their place of rest
But the poppies they do grow where they were never sown
And to my mind they do declare it best.

And each year when the green corn once again turns into gold
And the poppies in the field again remind me
Like the scar upon my hand and the blood spilt on this land
And the hungry earth so eager to confine me.

For red and gold they are the colours
One is blood and one is power
Though I may find my rest in Cropredy Church
In golden fields forever will sping the poppy flower.

By Cropredy the Cherwell is still bidden to keep flowing
And the willows by its side still gently weep
But still in restless dreams by this most peaceful stream
The poppies wake me from my rightful sleep.

And the dreams I have are red and gold
And the little stream becomes a flood
From all my brothers killing one another
Till waking I realised it's all my own dear blood.

-------
Alex

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: MMario
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 12:21 PM

acxtually - I was trying to find some older songs I could use at faire...(my mind, as most of you know works in bizarre ways)

but yes, looks like a nice song alex!

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: IanC
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 12:48 PM

Sorcha

We were discussing the links that AREN'T there!

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: Les from Hull
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 01:03 PM

My old English Civil War Society mates' favourite would be Babylon is Fallen (it's in the DT along with another with a similar title).

Mind you, you've got to remember that these friends were of the Cod and Halibut (properly, God and Parliament) persuasion and so were limited in their choice of stuff to sing - unlike those effete Royalists and their bawdy ways.

Parliamentary Armies were much given to the singing of Psalms before and after (even during) battle. The 'wrong but romantic' side had the best songs probably. The 'right but repulsive' side were much more serious. So perhaps you've got to pick your side if you want to be true to the spirit of the time.

Be careful which side you pick - Hull actually started that war by not letting King Charles 1 in, and we're ready to do it all over again if we have to.:-)

Les from Hull - Parliament's most northerly stronghold in England.

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: Noreen
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 02:02 PM

Alex, could have saved yourself a lot of typing- Red & Gold lyrics are already posted here. Cropredy will be ringing to sounds less warlike again, shortly, but I won't be there this year. *sigh*

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: wierd search results...
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 02:06 PM

Thanks, Noreen. Actually I didn't type it; I swiped it from a website and formatted it for Mudcat.

Alex