What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?

Subject: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 02:14 PM

Per this article in today's post, she's losing it - is it just the pressure of being a star?

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 02:26 PM

She needs Cosmo Tepperman! He made it work for Condolezza Schwartz, he can help Mariah.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 05:48 PM

Poor girl. I should have such stress.. I'll swap with her for a week if she wants....

LTS

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 05:59 PM

Hey, guys, always post the text, and not just a link,if you are going to start a thread discussing it--the links to newspapers and wire services die in one to two weeks, then they are archived, and then you can't read unless you pay!! Here is the AP article--

I must be honest and say that I have never been able to tell one Mariah Carey song from another, but perhaps here fans are more discerning than I am--as to the story, My first thought was that it was a publicity stunt to boost flagging record sales, but people don't usually slash themselves with broken crockery as a publicity stunt. And the spokesman is trying to downplay the idea that it was a suicide attempt--when they "downplay". it usually means something bad happened--

Carey Under 'Psychiatric Care'

Updated: Wed, Aug 01 1:20 PM EDT

By NEKESA MUMBI MOODY, AP Music Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - Mariah Carey is under psychiatric care following last week's hospitalization, which her publicist now says was the result of an "emotional and physical breakdown."

The 31-year-old singer, who has canceled all public appearances, including her headlining appearance at Wednesday night's MTV 20th birthday party, checked herself into an undisclosed hospital last week. At the time, her spokeswoman Cindi Berger said Carey was suffering from "extreme exhaustion."

But on Wednesday, Berger told The Associated Press: "She has suffered an emotional and physical breakdown ... she is under psychiatric care."

Berger denied tabloid reports that Carey tried to commit suicide. She said that just before the breakdown, Carey suffered cuts to her body, but the injuries were unintentional.

"She did break some dishes and glasses, and she may have stepped on them," Berger said.

Carey's breakdown comes at perhaps the most critical point in her 11-year career. The singer signed a multimillion-dollar contract with Virgin Records in April after leaving Columbia Records, where she got her start.

She'll star in a movie for the first time when "Glitter," about an aspiring pop star, opens later this month. She also performed the songs for the movie soundtrack, "Glitter."

But it's doubtful Carey will be able to promote either project. Berger could not say when Carey might be released.

"I'm taking it one day at a time, but right now she is resting and improving," said Berger.

Just before her hospitalization, Carey left two despondent messages on her official Web site, complaining of being overworked and getting too little attention from her new record label. She said she wanted to close her management company and take a break, but Berger said nothing has changed and her management remains the same.

Last month, Carey made a surreal impromptu appearance on MTV's "Total Request Live," dressed in little more than a lavender T-shirt and pushing an ice cream cart filled with popsicles for the teen audience. She also made a publicity appearance at a Long Island mall, where her publicist took a microphone away from her to prevent her from speaking.

Carey, who is divorced from Sony Music chief Tommy Mottola, had been dating Latin singer Luis Miguel. Berger said Miguel had not visited Carey in the hospital, but has called her manager to express concern. She said the two had not "officially broken up."

Carey has sold tens of millions of albums and has numerous No. 1 hits, including "Fantasy," "Dream Lover," and "Always Be My Baby."

Her current single, "Loverboy," had been languishing on the charts because of poor radio airplay. Once Virgin dropped the price to 49 cents, it leaped to the No. 2 position on this week's Billboard Hot 100 singles chart.

---

On the Net:

http://www.mariahcarey.com

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 11:10 PM

Well, they are human just like the rest of us and I wouldn't want that kind of pressure on me, esp. to judge myself by sales of records/cds. It seems sad that some can be so driven that it comes to this, instead of them making a pile of money on the first few, then going on to something else, or just taking it easy. A life of such imbalance is bound to exact extreme costs. I hope she will be okay, even though I don't like her music.

kat

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: SeanM
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 12:53 AM

Eh, from all I've seen and heard about her, it's kharmic wheel time. She clawed her way to the top, using sex as the least of the ways to do it, and now she faces that wonderful feeling of "Am I over? Did I get in front of a marketing machine without the talent to do more than be a flash in the pan?"

Hate to sound crude, but Bix Biederbeck she ain't. Time to take some prozac, get a clue, and get a profession she's qualified for that won't result in 'incidental cuts'.

M

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Deni
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 03:34 AM

I'm going back for another listen. I always thought she had a lovely voice....

Get well soon,MC, that 'emotional & physical breakdown' sounds terrible. Let's hope you're just knackered.

did i say 'knackered'? Yep!

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Ringer
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 05:07 AM

I've never heard her, but I saw a report in last weekend's press that she had a 6-octave range. Can this be?

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: SeanM
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 05:36 AM

As I was informed by a 'fan' of hers, she has INCREDIBLE native talent. However, rather than develop that, she decided to drop out of training to be a 'pop diva'.

I stand by the idea that this is kharma. As was explained to me by said fan, the "divorce" mentioned was stage 2 of the 'get me famous' plan. Stage one was the seduction of her producer, whom upon her 'breaking big' was promptly dumped so that she could date the studio exec. Now, she's 'secure' in her 'fame' and can drop to date others.

Jealous? A bit. I'll admit - I'd trade places with her talentwise in a second. As a person, what I've heard, often from her own fans, strikes me as the actions of a shallow manipulative person who isn't an artist, merely a poor to medium skilled business person who happens to have been blessed with talents that she doesn't honestly seem to care about.

Again - hopes that she recovers, and goes into something that doesn't pain her so much. The world could use a few less disposable bubblegum divas.

M

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 08:28 AM

What's wrong? Excessive lifestyle. Excessive ambition. Too much fame. Too much pressure. And godawful music, IMO...but I'm sure her fans love it.

She is now finding out what happens when you get exactly what you think you want out of life...the common delusions of "fame and fortune".

I thank God I am NOT in her position. It must be like being a doomed gladiator in the Roman arena, with the whole world watching your every move.

- LH

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 09:36 AM

Sounds like she reached the top and looked around, and she was still HER, when she thought that getting there would make everything different. Wonder how many 20-y-o dotcom millionaires had the same trouble...

And about posting links, WashPost doesn't make you pay that I know of, and right now it was still fresh, but I do see your point, I was just enjoying the fact that I can now actually do blickies. But I can do both.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 09:42 AM

I just don't get it with these people. When you've already made millions, if you're getting exhausted, why not just take a break???? Personally I would love to have a hit song and achieve a position of power in the music industry. I would then force everybody to listen to my versions of traditional ballads, hand picking wonderful musicians to accompany me(all acoustic, of course)! Unfortunately I haven't managed to seduce any record producers or studio execs yet!

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 10:31 AM

Mrzzy,

From the Washington Post Site:

>Search Fees

> You can search The Washington Post archives for free, but >a fee will be charged to see the full text of any article >the past 14 days are available at no cost on our main >>>>>>search page.

>Articles dating back to January 1977 are available for >>>>searching.The following prices will be charged to read the >full text of stories: $2.95 per article on weekdays, 6 >>>>a.m. to 6 p.m. Eastern Time $1.50 per article all other >>times >You must set up an account to access the full text of articles.

So yes, the WashPost does make you pay-- I had a big go around with them about the outrageous fees that they (and, now, almost all of the other papers) charge, because I was working on a research project that required a lot of old news stories. You can't even read them without paying the fee, so you don't know whether the article has the information that you need without paying for it first--I could actually buy the back issues from them for a lot less, but then there is a lot of extraneous newsprint to deal with--

It wasn't possible to finish the project because I just couldn't afford the fees--

duplicate posts deleted
joeclone

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Metchosin
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 11:04 AM

hmmm...a lot of Schadenfreud going on in this thread.....too bad.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Bardford
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 11:38 AM

Good call, Metchosin. Fame and ambition doesn't immunize anyone from mental health problems.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 11:49 AM

No, it probably incites them... but still, poor thing, now she's trying to get away and all the media are still hounding her. Maybe she shouldn't have fed them at the table, eh!

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 12:54 PM

I like her singing ability. I don't like the amount of flesh she shows when she performs. I think it cheapens the music.

She is one of the most commercially "sold out" artists I have ever seen or heard of. I hope this incident convinces her to retrench a little and concentrate more on making graet music.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 03:04 PM

6 octaves is correct. She beats out Minnie Ripperton not only in range but in control and style to boot. She may not have a lot of ethics (I don't know, I don't bother to keep up on the shenanigans of pop icons), but the woman has a voice that not many even come close to.

She may not be a jazz/blues singer, but to insinuate that she is a no talent is a bit much. I *wish* I had her range! I'll have to be satisfied with my measely 3 octaves and be done with it. :D

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 04:31 PM

6 octaves is amazing all right. How big a range does Joni Mitchell have? Just wondering...

- LH

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 04:54 PM

Does she really have that range? If she used it in any of her recordings, I've missed it--And not to diminish her talent in anyway, but her voice and here selection of material seem totally undistinguished--my generally impression is that her voice is processed to such a degree that it no longer has any distinctive characteristics at all on her recordings--

Now that I think about it, I have a distinct recollection of seeing her cover "I'll Be There" on MTV Unplugged a number of years back, and noticing that a back up singer did the high parts--

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 10:27 PM

Listen to some of her songs. That high pitched whistling sound is not a synthesizer. She is *singing* those notes. It's amazing. Add to this that she has quite the low range as well.

I don't usually pay attention to pop musicians. For instance, I could not name you one song Whitney Houston sings. But the things Mariah can do with her voice are *so* amazing that, as a singer, I can't do much else but be jealous and pay attention.

3 octaves does not suck, I know this, but man. *6*!!

Bloo with envy

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: thosp
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 11:17 PM

i can only wish her well --- i really don't know anything about her personally -and unless i walk a mile in her shoes i would prefer not to critisize her- but i have heard her sing -- and i was bowled over by her range -- i'm just not into her (no pun intended)

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Lucius
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 12:40 AM

Go to a piano and play six octaves, then put on various Mariah Carey albums. Her range is about three octaves, including her colorotura soprano. She does not sing alto, tenor or bass.

I always thought that her music sounded lightweight, as if she is singing back-up without a lead melody. Not surprising, considering her start.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: bobbi
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 02:17 AM

Can't be the "Star Thingy"... I'm a star and it hasn't cracked me!

One or more of three things: 1. She's trying to get out of an ill-negotiated contract.

2. She's married and he's driving her nuts.

3. She's married and he's driving her nuts!

b

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Deni
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 03:35 AM

Dear Bloo with envy.

You are doing OK. There are those of us who envy your 3 octaves. SPIT. Snarl. Gnash.

Ah well, show biz is full of ups and downs!!!!

Love to anyone who bothers to sing at all, it ain't no bed of roses... Deni

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Finny
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 03:48 AM

Sad to hear it! Any illness is really harsh, let alone mental illness. Hope she gets over it soon.

I don't mean to knock her abilities here, cos hey, she's making money off it and I'm not, so who am I to comment, I always thought she had really good backing singers and it is they who really do her justice and help her sell her albums. That's just my thoughts...solidarity to backing singers!

Finny

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Grab
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 10:22 AM

She's a damn good singer. Trouble is, either (a) she's a lousy songwriter, or (b) she has lousy songwriters, which puts her in the "interchangeable pop fluff" category. Music Box had precisely one good song on it, "Without You", and that was a cover. If she can't recognise crap songs, she shouldn't be too surprised when she slides off the charts. Or she can be surprised, but I won't have too much sympathy.

Graham.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 10:32 AM

About right, Graham. Now Jann Ardenn, on the other hand, is a very good songwriter, I'd say.

- LH

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 11:43 AM

Lucious.

Are you saying that each category of vocal range carries with it the potential for only one octave? I.E.: Soprano is one octave, below that, Alto another, below that Tenor another? I had always thought that, with each voice came a range that overlapped a little those above and below.

If, however, what you say is correct, I am a soprano, an alto and have some tenor capabilities.

However, if my understanding is correct, it is not possible that she has a mere 3 octaves. I have 3 octaves (can sing the "Doh Rey Mi" song 3 times straight through), and come nowhere near her range.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 11:50 AM

Mariah Carey is one of the video stars--and there are many, whose handlers have made them successful by selling the look first, and making sure that the music didn't interfere with it--

Unfortunately, Mariah doesn't look the way she did ten years ago--People talk about her operatic voice,(as I said, I watched her on MTV Unplugged, and have my doubts, but I leave that to others to argue) well, those operatic divas tend to fill out, and she is moving in that direction, as well. She is not unattractive, but she has gotten to be considerably more solid--Her marketers have emphasized the "look" as opposed to the sound, and now her looks have changed--I am sure she noticed it before we did, and probably feels like those added pounds have kept the record sales down.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 03:00 PM

I saw an Mtv or Vh1 show where she sang with Aretha Franklin and Aretha mopped up the floor with her. I think she should show more flesh and sing less songs. I hope she is ok.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 05:59 PM

Aretha owns the mop, ceiling and the floor. It would be unfair to practically anyone to share a stage with her (many have tried, virtually all have regretted it, I'll bet, apart from the experience of being on the same stage of course....). I personally find Mariah Carey tedious and shrill.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Lucius
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 01:09 AM

Celtic Soul, I am not saying that vocal range runs one octave per catagory, thats absurd. There is a persistant myth that Mariah Carey can sing over six (some say seven) octaves. Not even Bobby McFerrin can do that, and he is ten times the musician that Mariah Carey is.

I think that the exaggerations of her being able to sing over six octaves are an attempt to give her legitimacy. I have music students who mouth this claim, and cannot even define what an octave is.

Normally I love blarney, but this isn't funny anymore.

Lucius

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 01:18 AM

So her problem is that she is married and he's driving her nuts. Like I said, I should have her problems.... mine's been driving me nuts for 11 years next month, and I daresay I drive him nuts as well. That's marriage. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

LTS

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 09:47 AM

Lucius.

Her being a "poor musician" really has nothing to do with her range.

I have seen nothing in your posts that absolutely refutes her having 6 octaves. When I have listened to her, she beats me out by several, and I have 3. She has at the *very* least 5, and I dunno about anyone else, but that impresses me.

I can still think highly of a persons raw talents no matter what they have done with their life, who they have slept with to gain their pop status, or whether or not they have had breakdowns. I don't allow that to taint my opinions of a persons abilities, and hers are considerable. I would trade ranges in a heartbeat with her. This is not to say that I would trade everything with her, certainly not lifestyle, or choice in musical genre.

But just consider for a moment what *someone else* might have done with that same range! It boggles the mind.

We will probably have to agree to disagree, Lucius. :D

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 11:52 AM

Celtic Soul.

You are the one who is making the claim, not Lucius. If you would be so kind, tell us what her range is, the lowest note that you find, and the highest--use the standard Octave designation, which is C, c, c', c'', c''', c'''', middle C being c'--

Keep in mind that some of those high notes that you hear may be achieved in the recording studio with an octave doubler effect, and, in Pop recordings, that it is not uncommon for additional voices to be blended in to fill out the sound. As I said above, I remember watching her on MTV Unplugged, curious as I was to see if she could actually sing Michael Jackson's boy soprano part--my recollection is that there was another singer who actually sang that part.

Best to use a keyboard to determine where the pitches are--

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 12:13 PM

Thank YOU Ted!

Rick

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Alice
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 12:52 PM

You're not going to determine her range just by listening to her songs. Songs are not written to encompass all the notes of a singer's range. You would have to hear her sing from her lowest note to her highest to know what her range is. (Her mother, Patricia Carey, who is of Irish descent, is a vocal coach and opera singer who was a soloist with the New York City Opera in the late 60's and early 70's). Here is a review of M.C. written in 1991, when she was starting out:click here
"The Pop-Gospel According to Mariah Carey"
By Stephen Holden The New York Times - Sept. 15, 1991

Mariah Carey has the air of an ambitious teen-ager who was forced to grow up too fast. One-half diffident youth, one-half brusque sophisticate, she seems to be a woman who doesn't believe in wasting words. And her shyness is only partly concealed by the determined set of her jaw. One day last July, the 21-year-old singer, who had been up until 6 in the morning, was back in the studio by 2 in the afternoon, helping mix final vocals on her new album. She was clearly relishing her workhorse schedule. For, appearances to the contrary, Ms. Carey did not magically ascend from nowhere 15 months ago to the top of the pop charts. "Most people don't think I've paid any dues," she said during a break at Right Track Recording in midtown Manhattan. "But I condensed 10 years of work into 3. It was like fast-forwarding. I worked around the clock. I would waitress until midnight, then go to the studio and work till 7 in the morning on the album, then sleep, then do the whole thing again, day after day. No one helped me out, and I lived on very little money." That debut album, "Mariah Carey" -- one of the most intensively promoted in Columbia Records history -- has sold more than five million copies and won Ms. Carey a Grammy for best new artist of 1990. The follow-up, "Emotions" (Columbia 47980; all three formats), to be released Tuesday, arrives less than a year and a half later. Coming so soon on the heels of her megahit, the release cuts against conventional wisdom in the record business. Most pop stars wait two to three years between albums. "I discussed it with everyone," she said. "We decided I should put out a new album soon, becuase I was growing so much from the last album. "I wanted 'Emotions' to be more sparsely produced than the first one," she continued, "and for the most part it is. I also wanted to use the influences of all the music I loved, like Motown stuff and Stevie Wonder. I felt the uptempo songs were a little overproduced on the first record." Both records feature Ms. Carey's technically impressive and impassioned pop-gospel singing. Few vocalists in any musical genre have voices as flexible as Ms. Carey's nearly four-octave instrument. The new record should mute critical dismissals of Ms. Carey as a Whitney Houston vocal clone, even though their albums have been made by many of the same hands. In the last year, Ms. Carey has succeeded in stealing some of Ms. Houston's thunder. Sales of "Mariah Carey" have exceeded those of Ms. Houston's third and latest record, "I'm Your Baby Tonight," by some two million copies. Ms. Carey is uncomfortable discussing the comparisons. But Walter Afanasieff, who helped arrange Ms. Houston's three albums and co-produced several tracks on "Emotions" with Ms. Carey, is not. "Mariah is a songwriter and prducer as well as a singer," he said. "Whitney doesn't write songs and doesn't produce. She usually comes in and sings at the last stage of the recording process. Whitney has a beautiful voice, but Mariah has infinitely more control. Mariah will 40 ideas of what to sing on a particular lick and choose the best. I think 'Emotions' will show a total separation between the two." Although most songs on "Emotions" stick to the pop-gospel format of the first album, Ms. Carey's profile has been dramatically sharpened with leaner, springier arrangements. And her vocal trademark -- in which she leaps into a high coloratura register and swings like a virtuoso trapeze artist -- is showcased much more effectively on "Emotions." If Ms. Carey's sonic feats are comparable to those of Yma Sumac or Minnie Riperton, what distinguishes them is a rhythmic charge. At the opposite extreme, Ms. Carey's dark lower register is showcased powerfully for the first time in "If It's Over," a collaboration with Carole King that harks back to Ms. King's late-60s classic, "A Natural Woman." Here and there, Ms. Carey's singing takes on a raw, rockish edge that recalls the soul belter Teena Marie. And on the album's final cut, "The Wind," she moves promisingly into the realm of jazz-torch singing. The song was discovered by Mr. Afanasieff on Keith Jarrett's "Paris Concert" album. Ms. Carey added her own lyrics. The only sign of pop immaturity on "Emotions" can be found in Ms. Carey's lyrics, which describe the rapturous highs and desperate lows of romance in blunt, strung-together pop cliches, with minimal rhyming. "You've got me feeling emotions," go the opening lines of the album's title song. "Deeper than I've ever dreamed of/ You've got em feeling emotions/ Higher than the heavens above."

Ms. Carey, who seems much too practical to be the tortured romantic her lyrics suggest, insisted that her writing does not mirror a tempostuous love life. "Sometimes the inspiration is more real life than romance, but I make it about love because it's easier to write about, and more people can relate to it." Ms. Carey's no-nonsense attitude reflects the pragmatism of someone who has always viewed herself as independent. Her parents were divorced when she was 3. Her father, an aeronautical engineer, is black and Venezuelan. Her mother, Patricia Carey, who is of Irish descent, is a vocal coach and opera singer who was a soloist with the New York City Opera in the late 60's and early 70's. Her brother and sister, who are 9 and 10 years her senior, left home by their late teens. Beginning at age 7, Ms. Carey said, her only baby sitter was a little radio. "My mom and I almost grew up together," she said. "We were like a team. She used to bring me with her everywhere, and I was like a young adult at 5 or 6. Because she sometimes worked during the day and at night, I often had to stay home alone. It was what gave me my independence." The family moved 13 times, though at least during her teens Ms. Carey was able to stay in one place, Huntington, L.I., long enough to make friends. While most of them went off to college, she moved to New York to pursue her career. Obsessed with pop music since she was a toddler, Ms. Carey began songwriting at 13. Through friends of her brother, she met Ben Margulies, her first impotant collaborator. Together they wrote six songs for her first album, including the No.1 hits "Vision of Love," "Someday" and "Love Takes Time." The two are now estranged because of a business dispute. "When we met she was 17 years old and I was 24," Mr. Margulies recalled the other day. "We worked together for a three-year period developing most of the songs on the first album. She had the ability just to hear things in the air and to start developing songs out of them. Often I would sit down and start playing something, and from the feel of a chord, she would start singing melody lines and coming up with a concept. "I'm looking forward to getting back to together in the not too distant future and working again like we used to. Hopefully, art will prevail over business." Through Manhattan's musical network, Ms. Carey landed a job as a backup singer for Brenda K. Starr, a dance-music performer who became her outspoken champion. It was Ms. Starr who, at a record-industry party, dragged Ms. Carey over to meet Tommy Mottola, the president of CBS Records (now Sony Music Entertainment), and gave him her tape. Mr. Mottola made Ms. Carey his protegee and served as executive producer of both records (published reports have linked them romantically, though neither will discuss their relationship publicly). The personalized star treatment undoubtedly jump-started her career, but it's likely her phenomenal gospel voice would have propelled her to the top of the charts anyway. Though Ms. Carey sounds as if she grew up singing in a Harlem church, she discovered gospel in a roundabout way.

"When I was a little girl, my brother and sister were listening to records by Al Green, Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin and Gladys Knight," she said. "When I got older, I found out that Al Green and Aretah Franklin had recorded gospel records, and I went out and bought them. From ther I discovered the Clark Sisters, Shirley Caesar, Mahalia Jackson, Vanessa Bell Armstrong and whoever. I love that style because it's so free and real and raw."

She was never tempted to study opera, although she has the voice for it. "I respect incredibly all the years of vocal training you have to sing that way," she said, "but it's just not me." Still, without her mother's example, she probably wouldn't have become a professional singer.

"Because my mom did it for a living when I was young, I knew it could be more than a pipe dream," she said. "My mom always told me, 'You are special. You have a talent.' She gave me the belief that I could do this."

If Ms. Carey is a major pop celebrity, she is the temperamental opposite of a star like Madonna, who demands attention, revels in controversy and loves performing. Although she has yet to embark on a tour. Sooner or later, she realizes, she will have to make the leap.

"I'm not a Broadway type of person," she said. "I'm something of an introvert, who is happiest when I'm creating in my own little world in the studio. I'm not into performing. I have to make myself do it because it comes with the territory. If I toured, I wouldn't have had another album out for at least another year. It's so hard on my voice. I need a lot of sleep, and my songs are all strenuous. Because I'm not a dancer-slash-singer, when I go out there people don't want to hear me just breeze through them. They want to hear every note. I'm definitely not going to do a full-out tour for this album either.

"I don't want to be about hype and media," she continued. "I don't want to put myself in everyone's face and make them sick of me at this early stage of my career. I make pop music. That's what I do, and it makes me happy. I want to be around for a while."

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Alice
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 01:19 PM

Note in the article I quoted above that her range was stated to be almost 4 octaves. Her mother is a coloratura soprano. We are born with vocal folds and potential that determines our singing range. She apparently inherited her mother's coloratura range (being a flexible and agile voice and the ability to sing the highest notes). Being raised by a mom who was a vocal coach for her from an early age, she did have the ability (and inborn gift) to be a professional singer at the young age she started recording. The problem is, it seems maturity to handle that kind of career pressure is not what she has.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 04:38 PM

The article is, of course, totally a PR agency concoction. After her divorce, Mariah herself said that she had no control whatsoever of any aspect of her life, including what she wore and the way that her hair was done. And as for the quotes, well I've seen her interviewed at length. The term "Brusque Sophisticate" is optimistic--she speaks in monosyllables.

Vocal ability is not necessarily inherited, as anyone who has heard Frank Sinatra, Jr, will afirm, and the article says that Mariah has never studied, either with her mother, or anyone else. But it does give us a real feel for the machine that was behind making her a star--thanks for digging it up, Alice!

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: hesperis
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 04:54 PM

It also points out the major weakness of her songs - she writes about love to try to be more accessible, rather than because she's lived it.

Still, I hope she recovers, and can take this turning point as easily as possible.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 05:19 PM

Lucius and MTed.

My understanding is a general one, based on having heard her original album, and doing a comparison with my own range. I am making an assumption here, based on what I have heard and what she has claimed (or her PR agents for her). My only point is that she has to have more than three, and fairly well above that, as she is well outside of my range (which I *do* know). I am also accepting what I have myself heard and read. And yes, I do tend to believe too much of what I read. ;D

As for things being tweeked in studio, for certain that is more than possible. However, as with Milly Vanilly, if you do this and *claim* it to be natural, eventually, you'll get outted for it. She has been on the pop music scene for some time, and still says that is her natural voice, and there are no reports refuting these claims.

In order to prove my own point, however, I would have to go out and buy one of her albums, listen to it, find the highest and lowest notes, plunk them out on a piano, and then come back here and tell you what I have found.

I really don't want to purchase anything by her, I don't have a lot of time for an online search, and I would rather not go and listen to the radio until she is played, so I will *concede* the point.

I am still impressed. You can decide not to be, and all is still right with the world. :)

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Firecat
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 06:24 PM

Well, I'm not a Mariah fan, but I am a bit worried about this. One of my ambitions is to be a professional singer, but there seems to be quite a few checking into rehab or similar at the moment. Apart from Mariah, AJ from American band the Backstreet Boys is in, and I heard rumours that Geri Halliwell and Christina Aguilera were as well! I don't want to end up dropping to that sort of level if I pursue my dream!

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 12:58 AM

Celtic Soul,

I don't want to particularly pick on you, so I'll just leave the discussion as to what Mariah Carey can or cannot do--one thing I will say, and that is that recordings are a product, and they record companies spend a lot of money making the most saleable product that they can. Nothing is an individual effort, it tends to be a corporate effort, right down to the settings on the nobs in the studio--everything is aimed at selling recordings, nothing else matters--Mariah Carey is a product, and they do whatever is necessary to get the product into the shape they want it--

Firecat is concerned about downside, and the real downside is that the only people who succeed are the ones who make the product more important than everything else--that seems to catch up with people one way or another.

One of the things about mudcat and folk music in general is that is is a place for musicians and entertainers who felt like there were other things that were more important to them than just selling the product--

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 08:48 AM

M. Ted

I don't feel picked on, not in the least. Thank you for your concilliatory tone. :D

And I could not agree more. It is a shame that the industry does so much to strip a person of themselves in order to sell them. There *are* so many stories of tragedy out there, and it saddens me that so many have sold their soul, only to find out that fame was not what they thought it would be.

I apologize if I have thwarted the intent of the thread, Firecat and others.

On that subject, I can only say that I would rather be infamous than famous in this day and age. ;D

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 10:06 AM

It seems like it is no longer possible for people to have careers in music--there is either superstardom or nothing--which means, for most people, nothing--

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Alice
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 10:09 AM

Our vocal range is a PHYSICAL characteristic, which does relate to the fact that we are born usually with similar physical traits of our parents and ancestors. Singing ability is physical, and cannot just be trained if the basic components are not inborn. Even if she didn't have similar vocal traits as her mother, I can't imagine that she learned nothing about technique in all the years of hearing her mother practice.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 12:13 PM

So what, Billy Holiday only had an octave and a half.

Interesting but not surprising that such ignorance and lack of sympathy regarding mental illness has been expressed on this thread. The consensus for some being, that Mariah Carey somehow deserves her health problems and that if she wasn't such an "ambitious bitch" or of such "low moral character" or a "willing participant in the star maker machine" or if she had "chosen a field more suitable to her talent" or hadn't had "problems with her relationships with men" that she might not be in her predicament and that her behavior is the cause of her current apparent mental health problems.

Nice try, but just as believing that by taking the right vitamin or eating the right vegetable might somehow bestow you with some protection from cancer, thinking that "upstanding behavior" or ability to make "correct lifestyle choices" will buy you "good karma" and make you immune to mental illness, is a bit of a crock as well.

The short of it is that, the woman appears to be ill and as any human being, is deserving of compassion and care, not pity and ridicule.

Would the same attitude have applied if the woman had come down with MS or Cancer?

Rich or poor, intolerable stress can beset anyone and it is ironic that an illness or disorder is socially less acceptable if "it is all in your head" rather than "all in your pancreas".

Perhaps a visit here or or here might be enlightening for some.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: thosp
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 01:39 PM

amen to that Metchosin

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 04:48 PM

I just re-read my posts--as far as I was concerned, we were only discussing here range, with a few comments on the fact that the industry doesn't leave much opportunity to have real lives--perhaps avoiding the issue a bit, but I certainly never said any of the things that you claim--In fact, while there were a few jabs, no one even hinted at most of the stuff that you spelled out--

As far as I am concerned, I don't really know what happened or why--whether it was a reflection of some deeper problem, or a transient response to situational pressures--I hope that she is able to get through whatever problems she has in the best way possible.

As always, the PR machines control what we know, and they are concerned with only one thing, which is selling records--they have managed to get her the airplay that she wasn't getting before--her new recording is in the latest top ten--

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 09:46 PM

I was always of the belief that her problem was a total inability to hold a note
GtD

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 03:42 PM

Metchosin

I don't think her behavior has been the cause of her behavior, but it may have been symptomatic of it. She does have my sympathy. She has had a good run. As I said before, I hope this causes her to concentrate more on the music than selling flesh. I hope we all get to find oput just how good she really is.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 05:29 PM

Metchosin.

You speak as if pitying someone were a bad thing? I can't say as I agree.

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 05:39 PM

Excellent post, Metchosin, thank you. Don't know anything about the woman in question, but she is a human being with problems, as well as everything else.

Noreen

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 07:33 AM

Well, I didn't post to this one before because I really don't care for her catterwauling but I figure she can have problems like any of us........But really now!!!!

OH DEARIE ME

The news just said that her handlers have announced she has been hospitalized with an "EMOTIONAL SETBACK"..........emotional setback???........now what the hell kinda' crap................geeeziz...............

Spaw

Subject: RE: What is wrong with poor Mariah Carey?
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 02:07 PM

Celtic Soul, "pity" to me implies a Victorian sensibility and with it an implicit objectifying sense of superiority.

No surprise there Spaw, the prevailing attidudes towards mental disorders, even transient ones, more often than not, are couched in shame, hence euphamisms. Guess they just couldn't quite get their toungue around saying something in public such as "bipolar disorder/manic depressive" or just plain "depressed". Then again, they could have just said "she has the vapours".*BG*