Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler
Date: 08 Mar 18 - 04:58 PM

If I remember rightly "Morgenroth" makes an appearance on Poul Andersen's "Star Fox", along with "Johnny i hardly knew ye."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Mar 18 - 10:11 AM

For Civil War songs, start with Irwin Silber's book, "Songs of the Civil War" (1960).

Great songs, great and extensive notes.

Next try the album to accompany Ken Burns's TV series "The Civil War" (1990). Some really beautiful stuff, but almost all instrumental.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 11:36 PM

According to Wikipedia, which is always right, "Dixie" has its origins with an Ohio composer, though the specific Ohioan is subject to debate. Its popularity comes from minstrel shows.
U.S. Grant, the General/ President, wrote that he only knew two melodies. One was the Star Spangled Banner, the other one wasn't. When I first read that I thought it was a kind of 'meta' joke, that Grant could recognize only one tune, and the other tune simply was something different. But I realized later that more likely it was his way of saying the other one was "Dixie".

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 11:10 PM

To get back to the civil war, there is a brilliant film called I think "Ride with the Devil" with Toby "Spiderman" Mcguire in which he is called Dutch though probably would have been more German than from the Netherlands.

A lot of Germans descended upon Syracuse where I now reside and no doubt would have constituted a great deal to the Union Army units created in Central New York. The music of the period is something I would like to research, especially as the Confederate "anthem" Dixie was actually written by a a guy in New York City, or so I'm led to believe.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 08:46 PM

> "German and English are the same language, separated by two hundred years!"

More like 1500 years. Otherwise, correct.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 08:20 PM

I had long ago heard a 'story' that there had been a serious proposal that Hebrew be made the official U.S. language. This is an indication that I'm not making it up. I am confident that no matter how true the story, it would've been a non-starter for multiple reasons. Hebrew was a 'dead' language in the sense that no one used it as a lingua franca, Jews included. Jews, of course, spoke a vernacular form of German known as Yiddish, and Jews from Eastern areas in Europe spoke a vernacular form of Spanish known as Ladino. Anyone seriously contemplating using Hebrew as a common tongue would have to do major updates to bring it to 18th century standards.
Then what about Shakespeare? What about Fielding? What about Defoe? Who would want to give up the considerable body of work and the incredible depth and flexibility of English, 17th, 18th, 19th Century?

As to German, Snopes has the story and fleshes out the legend and calls it falsche. There were certainly many German speakers in the Colonies and the nascent United States, but they were never in numbers to challenge the amount of English speakers. People who wanted to speak German in daily life just went on speaking German, and they still do.

I took some German lessons at The Goethe Institute in downtown Boston about the same time as Neun un Neunzig Luftabalons was hitting the U.S. charts and my German instructor more than once said "German and English are the same language, separated by two hundred years!"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:00 PM

Surely German regimental bands in the American Civil War also played the march "Dueppeler Morgenroth," by Friedrich Zikoff, written around 1835.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZmeVvW3zow

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: Mad Maudlin
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM

Good translations, Joe! Your German is really good! Hats off to you.

Subject: Add: Ach Wie Bald
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 11:56 PM

I'm glad you asked, Uncle Jacque. I found the answer in Das Große Hausbuch der Volkslieder (Walter Hansen, 1978). "Morgenroth is apparently not of German-American origin. It was written by Wilhelm Hauff (1802-1827), to the melody of an old Swabian tune, "Ach Wie Bald." As you can see, he borrowed heavily from the lyrics of the older song. The original song may be even sadder than "Morgenroth."
-Joe Offer-

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ACH WIE BALD, ACH WIE BALD! (Swabian folk song)
1. Ach wie bald, ach wie bald! Schwindet Schönheit und Gestalt! Prahlst du gleich mit deinen Wangen, Die wie Schnee und Rosen prangen, Auch die rosen welken ab. 2. Kaum gedacht, kaum gedacht, Ist der Freud ein End gemacht, Gestern Lust und Freud genossen, Heute durch die Brust geschossen, Morgen in dem kühlen Grab. 3. Weine nicht, weine nicht, Falsche Seele, weine nicht! Denn was nützen solche Tränen, Die aus falschem Herzen strömen, Wo kein Treu zu finden ist? 4. Wie das ist, wie das ist, Aller M&aum;dchen Freud und List: Viel versprechen, wenig halten, In der Liebe ganz erkalten, Eh der Tag vorüber ist. 5. Machtest mir, machtest mir, Stets nur Kummer, Sorg und Müh! In der Nacht bei Sturm und Regen Lief ich deiner Lieb entgegen, Und du bist so falsch an mir! 6. Fort von mir, fort von mir Falsche Seele, fort von mir! Jetzt zerreiß ich alle Stricke, Bei mir findest du kein Glücke - Hätte ich dich nie gekannt!	Oh, how soon, oh how soon Do form and beauty disappear You beam with your cheeks Just like the snow and roses gleam But still the roses wither. Scarcely thought, scarcely thought That joy would come to an end Yesterday enjoying happiness and joy Today, shot in the breast Tomorrow, in the cold grave. Do not cry, do not cry, False soul, do not cry! For what good are such tears That stream from false hearts Where nothing true is to be found? The way it is, the way it is, For all maidens, both joy and underhandedness Much is promised, but nothing received, In love, much becomes cold Before the day is over. You cause me, you cause me Much grief, sorrow and trouble. In the night in storm and rain, I went against your love And you are false to me! Away from me, away from me! False soul, away from me! Now I tear apart the ties - With me, you will find no happiness I wish I had never known you!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: Mad Maudlin
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 11:35 PM

Interesting topic....There were many Germans in North Carolina and several Texan units as well. Probably not as many as in Heintzleman's Brigade, though. As for German nearly becoming America's National Language, don't know about that.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:17 PM

Does anyone know the History of this song?

I would venture to guess that it might have it's roots in Heintzleman's Brigade, a predominantly German unit of the Federal (Union) Army which communicated and issued it's orders in German. I do not know of any such German ethnic units in the Confederacy, although there may have been some.

It seems that not long before the ACW, German was the language of choice of a large segment of the American population, and at one point came very close to being voted the American National language over English. Anyone have the details on that?

Subject: Morgenroth (U.S. Civil War)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 12:11 AM

This song was requested in the Help Forum (click) when Mudcat was down.
-Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Is mudcat down again?
From: kimmers
Date: 24-Sep-01 - 08:56 PM

.... which I will ask here, on the theory that those who find their way to this help forum must be the REAL Mudcat inner clique:

I have an amateur recording, very nice, of a friend-of-a-friend singing and playing some American Civil War era folksongs. One of the songs on the disk is in German and is titled only, "Morgenroth". The friend who gave me the disk is curious abouth this song, as neither of us have been able to find anything out about it. And I don't understand German!

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Subject: RE: Is mudcat down again?
From:
Date: 24-Sep-01 - 09:11 PM

Kimmers

Morgenroth literally means 'morning red', but I assume it is something to do with 'dawn's rosy fingers' as the poets say.

There is a midi here of Morgenroth (Reiter's Morgenlied) and lyrics with translation on the same site here

Is this the one?

Wassail! V

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Subject: RE: Is mudcat down again?
From: Spaw and Cleigh
Date: 24-Sep-01 - 09:26 PM

Hey kimmers.....TRY THIS It's a start...The name is "Morgenrot" to be correct...need a translation....Where's Wolfgang?

Spaw and Cleigh

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Subject: RE: Is mudcat down again?
From: Snuffy
Date: 24-Sep-01 - 09:33 PM

The old German spelling used to heve a lot of silent H's that have now been dropped - like NeandertHal, MorgenrotH, etc.

Your words are the same as on the link I posted, and both sites say it's a US Civil War song, so I guess we've nailed it.

Wassail! V

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Subject: RE: Is mudcat down again?
From: kimmers
Date: 24-Sep-01 - 09:58 PM

Hey, thanks, guys! Yup, that's the song. I had the archaic spelling, which might have been why my searches were turning up nada.

Now if I could just learn to pronounce the words! Our church choir director usually makes us learn one German piece for Lessons and Carols each year, mainly because HE speaks German! Those throaty German consonants sound so phlegmy that I'm positive that the tenors are spitting on the back of my neck...

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Subject: RE: Is mudcat down again?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24-Sep-01 - 11:59 PM

Kimmers, I hope you get that pronunciation right. After I had lived in Berlin for two years, I came back to the States and joined a choir led by an old friend. She was in the Sacramento Turn Verein Chorale at the time, and she was supposed to sing a lot of German songs although she didn't know a word of the language. She has a beautiful voice, but her pronunciation made me cringe.
Now I cringe when my current choir director sings "Ave Maria." Of course, they can sight-read the music, and I can't.
-Joe Offer-

Morgenroth (Wilhelm Hauf)

Red light of dawn, Do you light my way to an early death? Soon will the trumpets blow, Then must I leave my life. I, and many of my comrades. Hardly considered, That happiness would come to an end Yesterday on the proud steeds, Today, shot in the breast Tomorrow, in the cold grave. Oh, how soon Beauty and form disappear You shine with your cheeks Just like milk and purple shine.* Alas, the roses are withering. Therefore quietly Will it happen to me as God ordains Now shall I valiantly struggle And if I should suffer death, So dies a worthy riding man.

Morgenrot, Morgenrot, Leuchtest mir zum frühen Tod? |: Bald wird die Trompete blasen, Dann muß ich mein Leben lassen, Ich und mancher Kamerad! :| 2. Kaum gedacht, kaum gedacht, Wird der Lust ein End gemacht! |: Gestern noch auf stolzen Rossen, Heute durch die Brust geschossen, Morgen in das kühle Grab! :| 3. Ach wie bald, ach wie bald, Schwindet Schönheit und Gestalt! |: Strahlst du gleich mit deinen Wangen, Die wie Milch und Purpur prangen, Ach, die Rosen welken all! :| 4. Darum still, darum still Füg ich mich, wie Gott es will. |: Nun, so will ich wacker streiten, Und sollt ich den Tod erleiden, Stirbt ein braver Reitersmann! :|

*Hey, it's not my fault - that's the literal translation...

-Joe Offer-