Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st

Subject: Tune Add: MUIRSHEEN DURKIN / MOLLY DURKIN
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 22 Nov 98 - 11:36 PM

There are two songs in the DT that are very similar. The tune below is the one that I know as Goodbye Muirsheen Durkin, where the verse and chorus share the same tune. I think the same should apply to Molly Durkin which has a similar structure. The verses don't seem to scan as easily as the other version though.

Regards John

MIDI file: durk_nu.mid

Timebase: 120

TimeSig: 2/4 24 8
Key: D
Tempo: 109 (545455 microsec/crotchet)
Name: Durk1n
Start
0180 1 62 100 0030 0 62 000 0000 1 64 100 0030 0 64 000 0000 1 66 100 0060 0 66 000 0000 1 66 100 0060 0 66 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 62 100 0060 0 62 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 69 100 0120 0 69 000 0000 1 71 100 0060 0 71 000 0000 1 73 100 0060 0 73 000 0000 1 69 100 0060 0 69 000 0000 1 67 100 0060 0 67 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 62 100 0120 0 62 000 0000 1 62 100 0030 0 62 000 0000 1 64 100 0030 0 64 000 0000 1 66 100 0060 0 66 000 0000 1 66 100 0060 0 66 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 62 100 0060 0 62 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 69 100 0060 0 69 000 0000 1 69 100 0090 0 69 000 0000 1 71 100 0030 0 71 000 0000 1 73 100 0060 0 73 000 0000 1 69 100 0060 0 69 000 0000 1 71 100 0060 0 71 000 0000 1 73 100 0060 0 73 000 0000 1 74 100 0180 0 74 000 0000 1 69 100 0060 0 69 000 0000 1 74 100 0060 0 74 000 0000 1 74 100 0060 0 74 000 0000 1 76 100 0060 0 76 000 0000 1 74 100 0060 0 74 000 0000 1 73 100 0060 0 73 000 0000 1 69 100 0120 0 69 000 0000 1 71 100 0060 0 71 000 0000 1 73 100 0060 0 73 000 0000 1 69 100 0060 0 69 000 0000 1 67 100 0060 0 67 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 62 100 0120 0 62 000 0000 1 62 100 0030 0 62 000 0000 1 64 100 0030 0 64 000 0000 1 66 100 0060 0 66 000 0000 1 66 100 0060 0 66 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 62 100 0060 0 62 000 0000 1 64 100 0060 0 64 000 0000 1 69 100 0060 0 69 000 0000 1 69 100 0090 0 69 000 0000 1 71 100 0030 0 71 000 0000 1 73 100 0060 0 73 000 0000 1 69 100 0060 0 69 000 0000 1 71 100 0060 0 71 000 0000 1 73 100 0060 0 73 000 0000 1 74 100 0120 0 74 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Durkin
M:2/4
Q:1/4=109
K:D
D7E|F2F2E2D2|E2A4B2|c2A2G2E2|E2D4DE|F2F2E2D2|
E2A2A3B|c2A2B2c2|d6A2|d2d2e2d2|c2A4B2|c2A2G2E2|
E2D4DE|F2F2E2D2|E2A2A3B|c2A2B2c2|d4||

Subject: Tune Add: MUIRSHEEN DURKIN
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 02:15 AM

This is a good rollicking song, lacking a tune in the DT. There is a very similar song also called Molly Durkin in the database, which doesn't seem to scan quite as well. Does anyone know whether it shares the same or similar tune?

Regards
John

MIDI file: muirshee.mid

Timebase: 192

Name: MUIRSHEEN DURKIN
Text: Trad
Copyright: Notated 1999 by John J Leahy
Tempo: 165 (363636 microsec/crotchet)
Key: C
TimeSig: 2/2 24 8
Start
0000 1 60 110 0142 0 60 000 0002 1 62 110 0046 0 62 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0336 0 60 000 0048 1 60 110 0142 0 60 000 0002 1 62 110 0046 0 62 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 67 110 0336 0 67 000 0048 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 72 110 0528 0 72 000 0048 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 74 110 0160 0 74 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0336 0 60 000 0048 1 60 110 0142 0 60 000 0002 1 62 110 0046 0 62 000 0002 1 64 110 0336 0 64 000 0048 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0528 0 60 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:MUIRSHEEN DURKIN
M:2/2
Q:1/4=165
K:C
C3/2D/2E2E2D2|C2D2G2G2|A2B2G2F2|D2D2C4|C3/2D/2E2E2D2|
C2D2G4|A2BBG2A2|B2c6|G2c2c2d2|c2B2G2G2|A2B2G2F2|
D2D2C4|C3/2D/2E4D2|C2D2G2G2|A2B2G2F2|D2C11/2||

Subject: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: Jon W.
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 06:02 PM

I've been curious about this song, two versions of which seem to be common. Both are in DT. "Molly" has the protagonist leaving Ireland primarily because of heartbreak, while in "Muirshin" he leaves for less certain reasons, perhaps just boredom. In both he seeks fortune and fame in the gold fields of Californy. Any idea which came first? Or did they diverge so early it's impossible to tell? I have a re-issue of a 1929 recording of "Molly Durkin" if that's any help.

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: mike putt
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 04:37 AM

I have always only known Muirshin as a Dublin ballad sung through generations

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: MARINER
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 05:00 AM

I go with "Muirshin" as well, but I doubt very much if its a "Dublin" ballad.The whole thing is too rural in content to be from Dublin. Like thousands of other ballads and songs, Irish and otherwise, it may have been "adopted" by the Dublin people (as opposed to Dubliners).(There are those who think "Dirty old Town" was written about Dublin. It became popular in the 1960's through the singing of Johnny McEvoy, who came from the Irish midlands, maybe thats where it originated??.

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: Roughyed
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 02:26 PM

Muirshin Durkin always sounded like one of those music hall songs like Rocky Road to Dublin to me but I don't know. One of the interesting things about Dirty Old Town being taken up by Irish singers is the way the versions I have heard corrupt the word 'croft' in the first line which means a bit of waste land in Salford. I have heard it as call and cry and all sorts of things.

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 09:03 PM

Wasn't "Dirty Old Town" written by Ewan Mc coll for one of the Radio Ballads ?
I would suggest that the young man's name originates in the Irish "Muiris" + the diminutive suffix "ín" thus giving "Muirsín" spelled in various ways by those with no knowledge of ther language as Mursheen , Murshin , Murshen etc.
Annraoi

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: Crane Driver
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 11:06 PM

I always thought "Muirshin Durkin" referred to the town the man of the song was leaving. The place-name "Deargain" Anglicised as Durkin occurs in Co. Kerry.

And yes, Ewan Macoll wrote "Dirty Old Town" about Salford, near Manchester, England, but before the days of the radio ballads. Not every song you hear sung by Irish groups is an Irish song. I've even heard Macoll's "Shoals of Herring" - about the Norfolk fishing industry - turned into "The Shores of Erin"!!!

That's the folk process!!!

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 07 Oct 01 - 07:12 PM

Crane Driver, you're right about Muirsheen Durkin referring to the place, I think. The guy says 'sure as my name is Carney', so MD isn't his name, at any rate.

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 03:40 AM

Not necessarily (though I thought so too until now), for the person saying goodbye, Carney, is not the same as the one who is being said goodbye to.

from the 'Pogues' website:
In Irish, "Muirshin" is the dimunitive for someone named Maurice (or "Muris" in gaelic), so it would be something like "Young Maurice" or "Little Maurice" (thanks Tom).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: MartinRyan
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 06:38 PM

This site gives an American reference for "Molly" which someone may be able to check.

Regards

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 06:48 PM

The only thing I have found on this is a 20s/30s recording (? the same one as JonW ?). I have it on the "Farewell To Ireland" set of CDs by Murty Rabbett & His Gaelic Band. I doubt that this will help at all but the notes say:

"Born Mortimer Rabbett in Oranmore, Co. Galway, he moved to Boston in 1927. Ha sang and played piccolo, flute and whistle whith Dan Sullivan's Shamrock Band. Following the second world war he led his own band. He died and is buried in Boston. Molly Durkin (Tr.11, CD2( is a different take on the wellknowk Murseeen Durkin."

Jon

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: GUEST,Is Muirshin or Muirsheen a person's name?
Date: 10 Mar 12 - 07:05 PM

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: Young Buchan
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 06:31 AM

You can take MD to be a drinking companion with whom he will resort no more, or a farmer to whom he is putting in his notice; but it is idle speculation. The writer nees an internal rhyme for 'working': Jane Birkin had just run off with Serge Gainsbourg, and few men risk missing the California boat to sing farewell to their favourite gherkin; so what else could he come up with?

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: mayomick
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 09:11 AM

The original tune is from the reel "The Pretty Girls From Mayo" . According to Session comments at the link below, Ted Furey knew this tune under the name of "Mrs. Dirkin" :

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/8516

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: clueless don
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 08:42 AM

Thanks to the Irish Rovers, I know the song as "Goodbye Mrs. Durkin.

Don

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 11:42 AM

Ballad anthologist Colm O Lochlainn included the song in "More Irish Street Ballads" (1965). He called it "Good Bye Mursheen Durkin."

O Lochlainn says, "I learnt the last verse in childhood, and 'invented' the other two, finding nothing else but a fragment 'And now to end my story, I'll marry Queen Victory.'"

O Lochlainn was born in 1892. The single verse he learned in childhood is now the usual chorus (though he has "Corney" (for Cornelius) rather than "Carney" or "Barney."

Evidently he never heard Murty Rabbett's recording, or had long forgotten it if he did. As I recall, it's essentially the same as "Molly Durkin" in the DT (from a Jerry Silverman book). In that one, the singer's name is "Cooney" and he's "off to Califooney." (That's also how I remember Rabbett singing it.) And the singer in the DT version promises to marry "Miss O'Kelly."

The Irish Rovers made additional changes, for example "Mrs." Durkin, and the line about "Queen Victory." I believe that the Rovers are mostly responsible for the song's popularity since the late '60s.

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 11:46 AM

Actually, the Dubliners recorded "Muirsin Durkin" in 1967 on "More of the Hard Stuff."

Was that before the Irish Rovers?

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 11:52 AM

I think the first popularisation was by Johnny McEvoy, sometime around early 1960's. Will check the date.

Regards

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 11:53 AM

1966

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 12:01 PM

Thanks, Martin. Did the Dubliners' sing his version or their own?

Subject: RE: Muirshin or Molly Durkin? which came 1st
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 12:06 PM

Off the top of my head - I don't know! My recollection is that they were at least very similar. Should be able to find audio/lyrics online...

Regards