Lyr Req: Holst 2nd Suite in F

Subject: Desperate for lyrics!!
From:
Date: 14 Feb 98 - 10:39 PM

Hello, my name is Josh Morales, and this is my first time here, but it seems to be the best place to go for help. I'm wondering if anyone out there is familiar with Gustav Holst, who wrote the "Second Suite in F" which is a composition based on traditional folk songs. Well, the second movement is called "Song without words- 'I'll Love my Love'" and I know it has words, but I don't know what they are! I really would like to know, so that I can use them in an English assignment that is way passed due! If anyone can help me, please email me at [e-mail]. thank you!

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!!
From: Helen
Date: 14 Feb 98 - 11:54 PM

Hi

I found the midi file at this location - it should help with working out which tune it is.

http://www.bhealthi.com/midi/

The tune is not the same as Black is the Colour (*color* :-) i.e. translation for the Yankees) but there is a line in that which says:

I love my love, and well she knows, I love the ground whereon she goes..." etc so I wonder if it's a variation on that song.

Anyone else out there who can identify it?

Helen

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!!
From: Josh Morales
Date: 15 Feb 98 - 11:00 AM

thanx for replying, but I already have a MIDI I made myself of the entire suite, arranged for strings. If you're interesed, check it out at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7269 under the section "music". (sign the guestbook while you're there!) but I still don't know what the words are!

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!!
From: Susan of DT
Date: 15 Feb 98 - 12:24 PM

Look at [I know my love] in the database and see if this is what you are looking for. Use the blue box in the upper right hand corner.

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!!
From: Josh Morales
Date: 15 Feb 98 - 01:31 PM

I looked for the song, but it wasn't the one. I know the title is "I'll Love my Love". I tried doing a search of the internet, but you can never find anything you need there. Someone please help! thanx.

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!!
From: Bruce O.
Date: 17 Feb 98 - 01:40 AM

Probably "Maid in Bedlam" with burden line "I love my love, because I know my love loves me". Traditional version in JFSS 7, p. 93, 1905. Early version is in 'Scots Musical Museum', #46, (same burden). It commences "One morning very early, one morning in the spring". Tune in SMM is "Will you go to Flanders/ Gramachree Molly". It is an extensive recasting of a single sheet song with music of c 1740, "The Black's Lamentation". (He is mad for love of maid and in Bedlam.)

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!! - Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 12:10 PM

This page (click) has a list of movements for Second Suite for Military Band in F (1911):

1. March: Morris Dance, Swansea Town, Claudy Banks
2. Song Without Words "I'll Love My Love"
3. Song of the Blacksmith
4. Fantasia on the "Dargason"

From this, it appears the "I'll Love My Love" may not have had words. Any further information on the songs in this suite?

---

You can find a number of Holst MIDI files here (click) and here (click) and here (click). "Dargason" has always sounded so familiar when I've heard it. Does it have words?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!! - Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 01:48 PM

"Dargason" is a humorous duet between tuba and piccolo. "Greensleeves" is there, plus a dance tune like the "Irish Washerwoman." All tunes used by Holst in the piece, however, are from Hampshire.
Someone should be able to recognize "I'll Love My Love," but Holst deliberately labeled it a song without words. I think it actually is an old tune that has received words, but I'm not able to identify it. Writers about the music of Holst always refer his melody to "an old English song," but never quote. Holst was a friend of and collected songs with Ralph Vaughan Williams.

Holst, Suite No. 2 in F

(www.gustavholst.info/compositions/listing.php?piece_id=5)

Lines from "All Around My Hat":

Some young men there are who are preciously deceitful,
A-coaxin' of the fair young maids they mean to lead astray,
As soon as they deceive them, so cruelly they leave them,
I'll love my love forever though she's far, far away.

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!! - Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 03:31 PM

The old midi link is long dead, but a midi of the relevant passage can now be heard at http://www.classicalmidi.co.uk/holst.htm

Several programme sites do say that the song was from Hampshire, but this is wrong. Holst provided piano arrangements for a number of songs found there by Dr George Gardiner, and these were published in Folk Songs from Hampshire, 1909; hence perhaps the confusion. Writers of sleeve notes for classical music rarely seem to know much about folk music, and such errors are common.

Another site states, "The second movement uses the Cornish song I'll Love My Love, a modal lament about a maiden sent to Bedlam because her true love has gone to sea" (see Bruce Olson's note earlier on the subject). They are right; in a sense. The tune in question was noted by Mr E Quintrell, a church organist, from Mr J Boaden at Curry Cross Lanes, near Helston, in May 1905. Mr Boaden had learned it from a Mr Curry of Helston.

Mr Boaden, however, could not remember the words; hence Holst's sub-title. The tune was printed in The Journal of the Folk Song Society, vol II no 7, 1905, pp 93-94, with the following note by Lucy Broadwood:

"Mr Boaden learned this song from Mr Curry of Helston, long deceased. The words have been forgotten. Mr Quintrell, organist, who noted the tune, has been unable, so far, to obtain them; but there is little doubt that they must have been those of a popular ballad, Bedlam Walks, or The Maid in Bedlam, of which a version, taken from an old garland in the British Museum, is here given. In Johnson's [Scots Musical] Museum (1787) there are almost similar words put to a very different tune, namely Gramachree, better known as The Minstrel Boy. Johnson's version called The Maid in Bedlam is said to have been written by George Syron, a negro. Giordani (circa 1770) composed yet another, and uninteresting, tune to exactly the same words.


"The Rev S Baring Gould noted a few verses of a similar ballad, see The Loyal Lover in Songs of the West.

"The above tune was communicated by Dr George Gardiner whilst himself collecting in the West of England." - L.E.B.


There you have it, then: the song indeed has no words, but there is a reasonable guess made as to what its words might have been. I'll post them later, if there turn out to be none sufficiently close already here.

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!! - Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 03:38 PM

Thanks, Malcolm. I would be interested in a good guess.

Subject: RE: Desperate for lyrics!! - Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 03:53 PM

It turns out that the garland text was posted some time ago, at  Song: I love my love. No proper source details were given, and the final two verses were omitted. Apart from that it's an accurate transcription of the text as quoted in the Journal, though copied from an intermediate source, Inglis Gundry's Canow Kernow, 1966, 34, where it was reproduced from the Journal. Later in the same thread is an abc of the tune from the same source, which is also accurate. You'll recognise it as the melody used by Holst.

Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: I'LL LOVE MY LOVE (MAID IN BEDLAM)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 05:04 PM

I've just realised that the abc I mentioned had annoying guitar chords added to it, and wasn't quite as accurate as I had thought. Perhaps, after all, I should put the whole thing here as it appeared in the Journal.


I'LL LOVE MY LOVE, BECAUSE I KNOW MY LOVE LOVES ME

Tune noted by E Quintrell from Mr J Boaden, Curry Cross Lanes, Helston, Cornwall, in May 1905.

Text "from a garland in the British Museum".


Abroad as I was walking, one evening in the spring,
I heard a maid in Bedlam so sweetly for to sing;
Her chains she rattled with her hands, and thus replied she:
"I love my love, because I know my love loves me!"

Oh! my cruel parents have been too unkind!
They've drove and banished me, and tortured my mind!
Although I'm ruined for his sake, contented will I be;
I love my love, because I know my love loves me.

Could I become a swallow, I'd ascend up in the air;
Then, if I lost my labour, and shouldn't find him there,
I quickly would become a fish, and search the flowing sea;
I love my love, because I know my love loves me.

With straw I'll make a garland, and dress it very fine,
I'll mix the same with roses, lily, pink, and thyme,
I will preserve it for my love when he returns from sea;
I love my love, became I know my love loves me.

Just as she was sat weeping, her love came on the land,
Hearing she was in Bedlam, he ran straight out of hand,
And, as he entered in the gates he heard her sigh and say,
"I love my love, because I know my love loves me!"

He stood and gazed on her, hearing his love complain,
He could not stand any longer, he bled in every vein;
He flew into her snowy-white arms, and replied he:
"I love my love, because I know my love loves me."

She said, "My love, don't frighten me; are you my love, or no?"
"Oh yes, my dearest Nancy, I am your love, also
I am returned to make amends for all your injury;
I love my love, because I know my love loves me."

So now they are married, and may they happy be,
Like turtle-doves together, in love and unity.
All pretty maids with patience wait, that have got loves at sea;
I love my love, because I know my love loves me.



X:1
T:I'll love my love because I know my love loves me
T:The Maid in Bedlam
S:Mr J Boaden, Curry Cross Lanes, Helston, Cornwall
Z:Noted by Mr E Quintrell, May 1905
B:Journal of the Folk Song Society, vol II no 7, 1905, 93-94
N:Text "from a garland in the British Museum": lyric fitted notionally.
N:Roud 578
M:C
L:1/4
Q:1/4=100
K:C
A,|D (D/E/) (F/E/) D|A/ B/ c2 A/ G/|F3/2 D/ E E|D3 A,|
w:A-broad as_ I_ was walk_ing one_ even-ing in the spring, I
D (D/E/) (F/E/) D|(A/B/) c2 c|d (B/A/) G G|A3 (A/B/)|
w:heard a_ maid_ in bed_lam so sweet-ly_ for to sing: Her_
c (B/A/) d d|c B A (A/G/)|F D D D|C3 A,|
w:chains she_ rat-tled with her hands and_ thus re-pli-ed she: I
D3/2 E/ F3/2 G/|(A/B/) c d (A/G/)|F2 E2|D3|]
w:love my love be-cause_ I know my_ love loves me!



The DT file, A MAID IN BEDLAM is an inaccurate transcription from a record, with no tune. It appears to be a slightly mutilated form of this very text, with which it might appropriately be replaced at some point.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:00 PM

I know this was quite some time ago, but I am also searching for the lyrics to "I'll Love My Love." I know they exist, because I played the suite in band about four years ago, and I remember that my band director wanted us to play the song as if we were singing it. When we complained and stated that it was a song without words, he promptly produced the lyrics----the then choir director had a score with the lyric. All I remember is that the first line is: "When I was out walking one evening in the spring..."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:33 AM

The Holst tune is basically the one that I've always heard the words posted by Malcolm sung to - what's the problem ?

I've always assumed that "Dargason" was a dance tune - is it Playford ?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 03:48 PM

In Playford, yes:  Dargason,or The Sedany

It's older than that, though; I gather 16th century.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: GUEST,SARS
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 10:44 PM

Alright, I got the answer,
If you want a true verse, you need to buy an album by Host Singers
Named 'This have I done for my true love'

Unfortunately, I don't have this album or a CD, but
I'll love my love is also called as 'Maid in Bedlam'
Yes, I played this on the band,
And Yes, I compared this to the sample.

The verses are not exactly same, but the main ideas are same.
So, I think this is as far as an internet can help you.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 11:05 PM

You may have an answer, but (unless you are psychic or able to channel other peoples' past lives) you certainly don't have the answer; nor one as accurate as has already been provided in this old thread. By all means advertise the arrangement made by your friends, but please don't make claims for it that you can't back up.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Holst 2nd Suite in F
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 06:13 AM

I read somewhere that 'Dargason' was the ancestor of 'The Irish Washerwoman'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Holst 2nd Suite in F / I'll Love My Love
From: GUEST,Guest: Warsik
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 02:46 PM

Holst arranged a choral piece entitled "I Love My Love." It uses the same tune as the second movement of 2nd Suite in F (I've performed both), so I would assume that it is the same song as his "Song without words." It does indeed use the words also known as "Maid in Bedlam" posted above. This folk song was "collected" from the countryside by G.B. Gardiner.

A note on lyrics: Since folksongs were not traditionally written down, there are regional variants. This would account for the difference in number of verses and wording in the versions other people here have posted. The variant that Gardiner collected and that Holst used is as valid as the many other versions of the folksong.

The album that GUEST:SARS recommended is also recommended by my resource book: This Have I Done for My True Love by The Holst Singers, Stephen Layton, conductor. (Hyperion CDH55171).

~Information on "I Love My Love" paraphrased from "Repertoire Resource Guide- Teaching Music through Performance in Choir: Volume 1"

Hope this was helpful, or at least not a hindrance.
~warsik