My pet musical peeve

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: dorareever
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 06:44 PM

People losing "guts" in exchange for "technique",they can have a wonderful pitch,their guitars can be tuned perfectly but that's all they have.It's better to hear someone singing in tune,obviously,but great singing or playing is not just that.You have to work on both things.Fake punk singers that think that shouting is the way to show that they're oh-so-angry and they can't even shout well.Those who keep in their minds music packed in separate files as "folk" "rock" "blues" "rap",people who experiment too much,people that don't want to experiment,people forgetting that melody is what you need when writing a song,people that said they want to be in a band and then don't show up for reharsing,bands that just want to play covers (if you're in a folk band...it's people who play folk songs without adding nothing to them.I can't stand that),silly metal guitar solos....too many too list!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 02:58 PM

Oh my Lord! I just heard the absolutely worse rendition of "God Bless America" I've ever heard. Some young blonde was singing it at the ceremony honoring the USO at the White House. Awful! Irving Berlin, I'm confident is spinning in his grave.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 12:45 PM

i've been there before. BOB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Trevor
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 05:49 AM

I've just found another one: listening to the recording of our last gig and realising how far we have to go before we're anything better than mediocre!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 02:08 PM

always tuning your guitar whether it needs it or not. BOB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 12:06 PM

I guess I didn't make that clear. He comes for a month about four times a year. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: pinkfiddle
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 12:06 PM

Hmmm

Good on Auxiris - people not bothering to learning new tunes/songs and playing the same ones at sessions every week till we all go mad!

And MTed - live singers with recorded background music. There's a man who does this in my local pub and it is just awful. Altogether now...'We wish YOU were in Carrickfergus...'

My own peeves (some already mentioned)

Meaningless thrashy bits at the end of songs (as seen in the Waterboys' performance last night) Pan pipes buskers (as I've said before) People in sessions who purposely change the tempo and don't see what's wrong with it People who go to sessions and don't listen and play the wrong chords or do random twiddling over the top of tunes. The Wild Rover and people who ask for it to be played! People who think playing percussion instruments is a doddle and therefore ok for them to go and randomly bang a bodhran/other drum when they don't know how.

Could go on but it all seems a bit negative! I think I might start a new thread about what our fave things in music are. Probably done before but then I guess this one has too!

pf

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,KB again
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 12:03 PM

That's not so bad DougR if he's only once a year. Its the ones that do the same song every fortnight that get me...

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 10:57 AM

GUEST KB, I know exactly what you mean. There is a performer who comes to my favorite Pub probably four times a year, and performs Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights. He has been coming to this Pub for at least seven or eight years. He hasn't performed one new song in any set during that time. One knows when he finishes one song, what the next song is going to be. He is not a great singer, but is a great performer. He attracts a large crowd of college age kids because he is raucous, and does a masterful job of selling beer. Therefore, management loves him.

"Finnigan's Wake," is one of the crowd favorites. Anyone who claps in the wrong place is cajoled into chugaluging his/her drink. The kids love it.

I like the guy personally, but I never listen to his sets anymore. I wait for the better singers, like Bill Craig from Canada, to come to the Dubliner and he'll be there this weekend!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Kim C
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 10:36 AM

Aw Kris, I reckon it's the music wot brings us all together in the first place. :-)

Mister noodles when we practice. I give him the evil eye. But perhaps sometimes I am too serious in practice. He does not, however, do this on stage.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,KB without cookie again
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 10:11 AM

As to the with or without paper thing - one of my peeves is people who perform the same song again and again and again. I'm pretty sure I'm being unreasonable on that - but I can't help it, it irritates me & I go out of my way not to do it. SO - not having time to get memory perfect on sufficient material to keep me going, I tend to use a crib sheet. So I think perhaps you have to juggle the requirement for variety with the requirement for preparation & come up with whichever compromise suits you best.
Anyone else wonder how we can all stand eachother - flawed vessels as we are....

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: toadfrog
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:08 PM

Well, Doug's first choice was a good one, although a bit narrow for a pet peeve. Try also:

1. Taking perfectly good traditional a capella songs and "improving" them with guitar accompaniments, harmonies and the like.

2. People who get up on stage and screw up the rhythm of a song by dragging out notes - seemingly to show that they are big shots and can get away with it.

3. Operatic types who sing folk songs with the idea of showcasing their voices and don't respect the song (after seeing "Pretty Saro" in Songcatcher, I will never again deny that operatic types have something to add!

4. Singer-songwriters who insinuate themselves into folk groups.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 10:59 PM

oh, okay, thanks for the info, the only bands that i've been in. has had bass guitar, drums, keyboards, 2 guitars, but we played a lot of different venues than you guys.BOB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 10:35 PM

Bob, old time bands, jug bands, skiffle bands...sometimes bluegrass bands and Irish bands. My bunch even has a jawbone we take along for special effects.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 10:20 PM

what type of band has spoons, and bones players? BOB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Midchuck
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 10:03 PM

Spoons/bones players, particularly those who bang along on every song, no matter how slow or quiet.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 08:11 PM

All of those things bug me, but, I think the noodlers take the cake. Seems to me that it's always pickers, not singers who do this.You never hear a singer humming like pickers noodle.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 07:57 PM

People who ask you to sing then talk right through your song: people who stamp on the floor to try to turn your nice lyrical song into the up-tempo karaoke/disco version of it, the latter crime being the ruder of the two, and one young "lady" will never know how nearly she got her feet stamped on - unless she does it again! Tattie B

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 07:53 PM

hmmmm...well, some people genuinely can't memorize well...(sort of like dyslexia...brain wiring)...but can sing and/or play wonderfully WITH the visual help...I will forgive and enjoy these...I will NOT forgive the ones who can't follow the tune OR words with it right in front of them. That's what 'making a request' is for...maybe someone else there does know the song!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 06:56 PM

I've only been back on the folk scene for about twelve months after a considerable lay off....somebody please tell me when it became the practice to bring along dirty great folders full of songs to singarounds and sing from them every bloody week and NEVER take the trouble to learn the words? What's the point? Why?!?!


That's my peeve and that is the end of it....

Harry.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 01:01 PM

Ooooh! Minus! My old singing mate who said "acapello" was like that ----- except she didn't have any musical education! She was insistent that a song be sung EXACTLY as it was written, with no small stylish variations of melody whatsoever. Now of course you don't want to rewrite someone's song, but there is that thing called Style that keeps us all from sounding the same.

In that interesting situation, I was the one with all the formal training, and my educated opinion carried No Weight Whatsoever. Miss Thang made all the decisions.

but like I said before... gee... where is she now? mwahahahaha

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST, a mudcatter minus cookie
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 12:48 PM

Sorry, although I'm a regular Mudcatter, I had to toss my cookie for this one, in case the person in question reads this:

A band member who regularly tries to out-argue her fellow band members on every matter of taste and judgment that comes up.

Apparently because she is the only one in the band with a music degree and knows lots of music theory and history, she thinks her opinion should carry more weight than anyone else's. She always knows, or thinks she knows, what chord goes where, whether a certain grace note should be played or not, and which of two versions of a tune is more authentic. Nothing is ever just a matter of opinion to her. Every opinion is either correct or incorrect, and hers is the correct one, and she is more than happy to educate you by explaining why.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:42 AM

Since it's kind of a blah day here, I'm feeling more "peevish" than yesterday when I perused this thread.

Here's mine - A person I've played with for years has a different sense of timing on coming in after an instrumental break. Someone can play a great fiddle, or mando, or banjo break on a song this person is leading, and then the person will "hold" for what seems like an eternity before starting the next verse, making it seem like the instrumentalist has stopped too early.

This person's overall timing is good, it's just that maddening delay. I've finally started playing "filler" riffs into the next measure whenever this person sings. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: guinnesschik
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:08 AM

*blush* Thanks, MMario. Nice to know our efforts don't always go unappreciated. Maybe we should relocate....

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 10:44 AM

People at songcircles who insist on singing ONLY out of RUS, and start something else if somebody begins an alien song.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 09:51 AM

guinesschik - on the other hand - it was really great to hear "you guys" do some of my favorites - in what was to me new and exciting renditions. Sometimes - though you may love a song - hearing it for the umpteenth time in exactly the same style just doesn't cut it any more.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: guinnesschik
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 09:33 AM

Audience members who want you to sound just like someone else, as in "Wow. That was interesting. So-and-so doesn't do it that way." I usually respond with..."Well, we're not so-and-so."

And, all of the above.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 12:56 AM

Hey GutBucketeer, even worse is the professional who treats her audience like shit - leaving them standing outside in the rain because she couldn't turn up on time for the sound check, or being rude to them if they wander in by mistake or to just enquire about how long it will be.... whose musicians demand the very best (to the extent of turning down a newly tuned Steinway grand piano), but who then play like it was their first lesson at Kindergarten.... whose 'Green Room' requirements cost almost as much as their fee and then they leave most of it, complaining about it.....

I could go on for ages (and still be talking about only one person!!)!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 11:14 PM

JAB: In my opinion, a professional who does that is only half professional. Don't retreat too far.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 11:07 PM

Growing smaller and smaller with each new post to this thread. As a relatively new singer and instrumentalist, I would certainly appreciate being quietly, nudge, told, or somehow informed when/if I'm doing any of the above. I'll retreat back to my basement and come out again next February.

Now, my pet peeve is going to a performance by a "folk legend" who you truly idolize, and who is supposed to be a professional, and find they have not taken the time to go over their set, practice, make sure they know the songs they are trying to sing. Instead, of a concert you get a rambling discourse of past "great folk events", half completed songs, and self discussion on what to sing next. While I may be learning how to perform and often forget/stumble due to anxiety, they are supposed to know better.

Sheeplishly retreating now to practice some more.

JAB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:20 PM

Yeah, I realize that, Kendall, but folks have already pointed out they are ...noodlers! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: kendall
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 03:39 PM

If the noodlers had a clue about manners, it wouldn't be necessary to mention it.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: DougR
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 12:05 PM

Several people have mentioned noodling between songs is a pain in the butt. Would it be considered bad manners for a group to set some rules before the session ...one of them being cut out the f--king noodling?!!!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,Kim C still no cookie
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:51 AM

I am guilty of playing too fast - not usually on purpose though! It's one of my foibles I have to work at.

When I was a young lassie taking classical piano lessons, family members would invariably ask me at family gatherings to play something for them. So I would. Usually it was something I was working on, some Chopin or Brahms or something... and then they'd pull that, oh that was real fine, now play something we know. So I just stopped playing for them since they didn't know how to appreciate it. Hmpf.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:19 AM

Well, I certainly can't say that I've ever *enjoyed* the Star Spangled Banner, as I hate the song (and all nationalist anthems like it).

But that said, the Hendrix version was a masterpiece of anti-war instrumental playing.

As to Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston versions--I've never heard Mariah sing it. Whitney Houston's version is pretty much a gospel song rather than an anthem. Hence the wobbly and garbly sound to many white folks' ears. I think Whitney may have based her version on one Mahalia Jackson used to sing (though its been a long time since I've heard either versions).

I once heard Mariah and Whitney sing together. It became quickly apparent (not to mention painfully obvious) that Mariah can't sing, and Whitney can. Righteously. I think she is an extremely gifted singer, sadly travelling through life in the fast lane, where she is bound to lose it eventually.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:12 AM

Dead Horse - remind me never to sing for you...*grin* - and I'll try to behave if you are performing.

MMario-guiltyoffartoomanyofthemoribundequinespeeves

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,KB with cookie missing
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:05 AM

Well I'm guilty of about 3 of the things mentioned - but I'm not admitting to which they are..
What I hate is someone shouting out 'lets have something cheerful now' just as I go up to do my spot - for which I've practiced something all intense and mournful and meaningful (which is probably about to irritate the hell out of someone anyway....)
And noodlers are the very devil aren't they? Don't they realise that the next person can't start til they stop - so hence they are extending the gap not filling it.

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: RangerSteve
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 07:41 AM

People who yell, rather than sing, the lyrics, in an attempt to show how meaningful their lyrics are.

Old Time and Bluegrass folks who play and sing too fast. The instrumentals are mostly dance music, and dancing is not a speed contest. Playing a song too fast is pointless, since the audience is going to miss a lot of the lyrics, and doesn't have the chance to ask you to repeat yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Trevor
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 04:35 AM

How about "Yeah, that was alright but will you do one we can all join in with now? Do you know 'The Wild Rover' or 'Streets of London'? Do you know any Wham?" Honest!

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Dead Horse
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 04:13 AM

Singers who forget next line, try to find it in some inner recess of brain, start verse again, long pause, "No, lost it again" Then decides to start at very beginning of song, still loses it. Sings something else instead. All this can take what seems like half an hour. Shanties sung too fast. Shanties sung too slow. Shanties sung with no feeling. Drunks who ask for "That Irish one you do" Audiences that don't wait to hear what chorus YOU are doing, before singing their own. Joining in on last line of verse, rather than on chorus. People who ask what my pet hates are............ I could go on, but I don't want to sound opinionated ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 10:55 PM

that is so very true, and there are those who'll never suspect nothing. BOB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: kendall
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 07:46 PM

You've heard of people who dont know nothin? well, there are those who dont even SUSPECT anything.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: 53
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 06:51 PM

ho ho ho BOB

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 06:35 PM

How about when people who can't sing insist on screeching out songs to the whole neighborhood? We onece rented to someone who would sing along to the radio at the top of her lungs, no matter when it was. Not only was she nowhere near being on key, she thought she was a soprano, despite all evidence to the contrary. We actually had people come to the house one day asking what was wrong, they'd this terrible noise.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 04:04 PM

'Hands only' instrument players who play tunes so fast that us poor wind instrumentalists are hyperventillating, wheezing and blue or just plain suffocating by the end.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 03:55 PM

Instrumentalists who "noodle" in between songs/tunes at asession so that other musicians can't start a tune or singers find a note, etc.

Bat Goddess

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 03:41 PM

I know I can't do anything about this one, but I'm going to throw it in anyway... people who request modern songs when you are playing in a historical context. I actually had someone ask me, at an 1850s event, if I knew Orange Blossom Special.

Oh, and this one... we were at an 18th century event where one of the PARTICIPANTS insisted on playing modern bluegrass tunes (they are old-timey, after all), and didn't seem to understand the concept of taking turns.

At this same event, after I did what I like to call "the bagpipe trick" on my fiddle, some guy says, oh, you didn't play such and such note. I said, here, you play it then. He backed off.

The other one is people who sing along loudly and either don't know the words or can't sing at all.

People who just assume we will play for free. Now, really, a lot of times we do, for local events. But we have been to events where other people were getting paid, and I sorta feel like, well, if you can pay them, then you can pay us too.

Someone already mentioned those people who tell you how much they enjoy your show, then never call you.

But to be fair... there are moments that make all the BS worthwhile. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: kendall
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 02:09 PM

I've been to a few folk clubs where a local performer will show up, do his 3 songs and leave. They are too good to listen to anyone else. These people really fry my arse.

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: GUEST,53/Glenda
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 02:07 PM

Ooh! Now I am a guilty party! I am JUST learning to play without having to have the book in front of me, but then, I am mainly playing in my own living room! ;)

Glenda

Subject: RE: BS: My pet musical peeve
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 02:05 PM

Agents who book your glam metal band for "Conference of Music Industry Professionals" that turns out to be the dinner dance at a Methodist Summer retreat for Organists and Choir Directors--