Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By

Subject: Lyr Add: WE'LL UNDERSTAND IT BETTER BY AND BY
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Nov 01 - 12:21 AM

WE'LL UNDERSTAND IT BETTER BY AND BY

By Charles A. Tindley, about 1906

We are tossed and driven on the restless sea of time;
Somber skies and howling tempests oft succeed a bright sunshine;
In that land of perfect day, when the mists have rolled away,
We will understand it better by and by.

Refrain
By and by, when the morning comes,
When the saints of God are gathered home,
We'll tell the story how we've overcome,
For we'll understand it better by and by.

We are often destitute of the things that life demands,
Want of food and want of shelter, thirsty hills and barren lands;
We are trusting in the Lord and according to God's Word,
We will understand it better by and by.

Trials dark on every hand, and we cannot understand
All the ways that God could lead us to that blessed promised land;
But he guides us with His eye, and we'll follow till we die,
For we'll understand it better by and by.

Temptations, hidden snares often take us unawares,
And our hearts are made to bleed for a thoughtless word or deed;
And we wonder why the test when we try to do our best,
But we'll understand it better by and by.

Tindley was the son of a slave and self-taught. He became minister of a large congregation and wrote a number of hymns. The above is from the Cyberhymnal (with Midi). In the John and Ruby Lomax 1939 Southern States recording Trip, a variant, (THE LAND OF) PURPLE DAY, sung by Will Lee of Rose Pine, LA, offers verses that will be added to this thread later.
@religion @hymn

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Nov 01 - 01:14 AM

Click here for a thread about another Tindley song, THE HALLELUJAH SIDE.
Dale Rose posted an interesting piece about Tindley in the thread.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: (THE LAND OF) PURPLE DAY
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 06:16 PM

(THE LAND OF) PURPLE DAY

Cho.
Bye an' bye, Lord, when de mornin' come,
All those saints are goin' to be gather-ed home,
We will tell all our story of how we overcome,
We will understand it better, bye an' bye.

We will go to the land of the pillars,
Down to the land of peace and sun,
There we will go with Jesus, in that land of purple day.
In that land o' purple day, we will roll the stone away,
We will understand it better, bye an' bye.

Sung by Will Lee ("John Baptist"), Rose Pine, LA
Its descent from the Tindley hymn, We'll Understand It Better By and By, was pointed out by Masuto Sakarai. Perfect Day becomes Purple Day. There is another verse, but part is not intelligible. Lomax and Lomax, 1939 Southern States Recording Trip (placed with spirituals).
@religion @hymn

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 06:48 PM

Not particularly scholarly, here, but my gospel quartet does this song, so I'll get back to thisthread and post the lyrics. I don't sing the lead, so I'll have to go back to a tape to make sure that I get the words right..

Jerry

Subject: Lyr Add: THE SAINTS BOUND FOR HEAVEN
From: Burke
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 07:13 PM

Interesting, I wonder if he was familiar with the Shape note tune: The Saints Bound for Heaven (Southern Harmony 1840) Tune on the middle staff

1. Our bondage it shall end, by and by, by and by,
Our bondage it shall end, by and by;
From Egypt's yoke set free;
Hail the glorious jubilee,
And to Canaan we'll return, by and by, by and by,
And to Canaan we'll return, by and by.

2. Our deliverer he shall come, by and by, by and by,
Our deliverer he shall come, by and by;
And our sorrows have an end,
With our threescore years and ten,
And vast glory crown the day, by and by, by and by,
And vast glory crown the day, by and by.

3. Though our enemies are strong, we'll go on, we'll go on,
Though our enemies are strong, we'll go on;
Though our hearts dissolve with fear,
Lo, Sinai's God is near,
While the fiery pillar moves, we'll go on, we'll go on,
While the fiery pillar moves, we'll go on.

4. Though Marah has bitter streams, we'll go on, we'll go on,
Though Marah has bitter streams, we'll go on;
Though Baca's vale be dry,
And the land yield no supply;
To a land of corn and wine, we'll go on, we'll go on,
To a land of corn and wine, we'll go on.

5. And when to Jordan's floods, we are come, we are come,
And when to Jordan's floods, we are come;
Jehovah rules the tide,
And the waters he'll divide,
And the ransomed host shall shout, we are come, we are come,
And the ransomed host shall shout, we are come.

6. Then friends shall meet again, who have loved, who have loved,
Then friends shall meet again, who have loved;
Our embraces shall be sweet
At the dear Redeemer's feet,
When we meet to part no more, who have loved, who have loved,
When we meet to part no more, who have love.

7. Then with all the happy throng, we'll rejoice, we'll rejoice,
Then with all the happy throng, we'll rejoice;
Shouting glory to our King,
Till the vaults of heaven ring,
And through all eternity we'll rejoice, we'll rejoice,
And through all eternity we'll rejoice.

@hymn @religion

Line Breaks <br> added.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Burke
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 07:33 PM

I thought I had the breaks in!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 07:56 PM

Walker's Southern Harmony... is rare, even in facsimile. Has it been reprinted recently? The price range is $95 to $2500 (1st ed. 1835). If you have it, I may be asking questions about some of its material.
Its contents almost certainly influenced some hymns-spirituals by the more educated freedmen. I would guess that Tindley knew it, but the material and the tunes of the two hymns are quite different. There are spirituals that use the By and By phrase in several ways but those I can find don't have the content of The Saints Bound For Heaven.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:02 PM

oops! Just noted that the click you gave was to Southern Harmony. I have bookmarked the site.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Burke
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:08 PM

You can buy it as well, which is easier than downloading the pages one at a time. I paid about $25 for mine when the publisher put it on sale a few years ago.

The September 1993 reprinting has a sleeve with a CD containing 29 favorite songs sung at Big Singings from 1966 to 1992. Published by the University Press of Kentucky, 663 South Limestone, Lexington, KY 40508 (phone [phone]). ISBN 081311859X. The listed price from this source is $32.50, plus postage of $3.50 for the first copy and $0.75 for each additional copy. Quantity discounts can be arranged. (However, in October, 2000, the book was on sale at the publisher for $22.75, and Borders.com was also selling it at a similar discount.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: masato sakurai
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:14 PM

"Saints Bound for Heaven" is also in The Sacred Harp. The words are HERE.

Tune: J. King and William Walker, 1840
Lyrics: Elliott's Sacred Lyre, 1828
Meter: Particular Meter: 7,3,7,7,7,3

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Burke
Date: 07 Nov 01 - 08:28 PM

I started coping from the Sacred Harp page, but the word repeats were omitted & there are only 3 verses. I have to figure out how to insinuate verses 6 & 7 into a singing.

I hope ya'll have found your local Sacred Harp singing if there's one near by. I'm pretty sure the people in Kentucky sing from both Sacred Harp & Southern Harmony.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Further Along
From: Burke
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:02 AM

Dicho, I have to thank you for the song you started the thread with. I'd heard the chorus, but had no idea there were verses to go with it.

I had the wrong song on my brain last night. The gospel song that's themetically related & very close in time to Tindley's is Farther (Further) Along.

It's in DT, but here's another version that I lifed from an interesting thread in rec.music.country.old-time. John Garst, the poster, is one of those people who has spent a lot of time going through old hymn books to locate this kind of information. He also wrote the "Rudiments" section of the 1991 ed. of The Sacred Harp.
rec.music.country.old-time
Date: 1998/07/26

The earliest version of which I [John Garst] am aware was printed in 1911, labeled "arranged." Here it is. Notice: "Further", not "Farther."

Tempted and tried we're oft made to wonder
Why it should be thus all the day long;
While there are others living about us,
Never molested, though in the wrong.

Chorus
Further along we'll know more about it,
Further along we'll understand why;
Cheer up, my brother, live in the sunshine,
We'll understand it all by and by.

Sometimes I wonder why I must suffer,
Go in the rain, the cold and the snow,
When there are many living in comfort,
Giving no heed to all I can do.

Tempted and tried how often we question
Why we must suffer year after year;
Being accused by those of our loved ones,
E'en tho' we've walked in God's holy fear.

Often when death has taken our loved ones,
Leaving our home so lone and so drear;
Then do we wonder why others prosper,
Living so wicked year after year.

"Faithful till death," saith our loving Master;
Short is our time to labor and wait;
Then will our toiling seem to be nothing,
When we shall pass the heavenly gate.

Soon we will see our dear loving Savior,
Hear the last trumpet sound thro' the sky;
Then we will meet those gone on before us,
Then we shall know and understand why.

- Arr B. E. W. [arren]

@hymn @religion @gospel

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: masato sakurai
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:02 AM

Sound ecordings of "Saints Bound for Heaven" are (quoted from here:

Saints Bound For Heaven
A1954+ JOE BEASLEY MEMORIAL SACRED HARP ALBUM - (also cd)
A1977+ "CHRISTIAN HARMONY" OOP
A1990 "SOUNDING JOY" 87TH UNITED CONVENTION - (also cd)
A1990 MISSOURI STATE CONVENTION OOP
A1991+ ALABAMA STATE CONVENTION - (also cd)
A1993 "BIG SINGING" (SOUTHERN HARMONY IN BENTON, KY)
B1992 "THE UNIVERSAL PICKERS"

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: masato sakurai
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:29 AM

Burke. Thanks! I haven't thought of "Farther Along". It's on Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt & Emmylou Harris's Trio. Sam Cooke sang it. In Rise Up Singing and Songs of Zion, too. Dorothy Horstman says the date was earlier, though:

"This song was written in November 1900 by W.S. Stevens of Queen City, Missouri, shortly after the death of his son. Although the song was created in 1900, it was first published in 1907 in The Holiness Carol Songbook."(Sing Your Heart Out, Country Boy, 3rd ed. (Country Music Foundation Press, 1996, p. 42)

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Burke
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 11:56 AM

Thanks for the information on Stevens. I did a search of WorldCat and The Holiness Carol Songbook is not listed as held in any libraries.

The recordings listed are not available through commercial channels. You can find how to get those recordings from the Shape Note Resource Guide

The Joe Beasely CD's or tapes are your best bet. The Alabama State Convention is also good, but you have to order multiple copies or be in the same place as Keith Willard when he has some with him. "Sounding Joy" is from people who will deliver promptly & is also a good recording. If you want the tape, order soon because I think Morning Trumpet is moving toward CD's only.

Universal Pickers is a bluegrass quartet that did a recording of all Sacred Harp music & is just not the same as a convention tape.

The Big Singing mentioned is the CD that comes with The Southern Harmony.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Burke
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:41 PM

I noticed that Masato's list of recordings was from an old list & missed one.

In Sweetest Union Join - 96th United Convention, Henagar, AL Audio CD Recorded in 1999.

This is a great Sacred Harp recording that gets better & better the more I listen to it. The ordering instructions are at the same site as the others.

I programmed my CD player & listened to the 4 convention versions in succession several times. All are good. The "In Sweetest Union" is my favorite because it really kicks. I forgot to include the Big Singing.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 12:37 AM

Burke and Masato, I looked for copies of Sing your heart out, country boy, and found that copies of the 1986 reprint are over $200. Any recent reprinting here that I don't pick up through the used book dealers?

Subject: Sing Your Heart Out, Country Boy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 02:30 AM

Dicho, I think I'd hold off on "Sing Your Heart Out." I have the third edition, published in 1996. I bought it a couple years ago for about twenty bucks. I see a used copy at www.bookfinder.com for $178.50, which is ridiculous. The book seems to have been quite popular, and I'll betcha a fourth edition will come out soon.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: open mike
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 01:33 PM

the version that came to mind was the "tempted and tried" lyrics-yes Trio did a good job on this one.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Burke
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 04:45 PM

The editions of this book seem to come out about every 10 years. 1st was in 1975, 2nd 1986, 3rd 1996. We could have to wait a couple of years. I'm going to borrow it on interlibrary loan.

The publisher of the 2nd & 3rd ed. was the Country Music Foundation. They don't seem to have a web presence, but here's what I found in a white pages search:
Country Music Foundation
222 5th Ave S
Nashville, TN 37203-4206
Phone: [phone]

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: TNDARLN
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 12:34 PM

I grew up singing this out of the Broadman Hymnal [1940 ed.] where it's titled "When the Morning Comes". Words adapted; Southern melody, arr. B. B. McKinney, 1937.

v.1: Trials dark...
v.2: Oft our cherished plans...
v.3: Temptations, hidden snares...
Refrain: "By and by, when the morning comes..."

Can scan and email, if anyone likes. Burke, didn't you buy a Broadman hymnal here?

BTW, Bryan Bowers closed his concert here Thursday night with Farther Along, after doing an original spoken/sung piece about where he was/what went through his head on 9-11. Very cool. T

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Tweed
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 04:54 PM

Thanks to Burke for "Farther Along". I just got a mandolin and that song will be perfect to hear in my head while figuring out where the notes are on the shortboard. I think I heard Mother Maybelle Carter doing that version on a record somewhere along the line.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: GUEST,Felipa
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 05:40 PM

Woody Guthrie had a parody of Farther Along
Why do these planes bring death to my people
Nitro-explosives, big cannons and guns?
Where are my warm clothes, my food and my shelter?
I've got to know, I've got to know why.
(chorus: Farther along w'll know all about it...) I haven't checked whether this is in the DT database.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Tweed
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 06:00 PM

Felipa, if you can find the rest of Woody's version, would ya post it on here? I'm gonna go figure out how the beast works. I got a feeling there's loads of good stuff.(DT database)

Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN THE MISTS HAVE ROLLED AWAY
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 07:59 PM

Lyr. Add: WHEN THE MISTS HAVE ROLLED AWAY
Words Annie H, Barker, 1883; Music Ira D. Sankey
1.
When the mists have rolled in splendor
From the beauty of the hills,
And the sunlight falls in gladness
On the rivers and the rills,
We recall our Father's promise
In the rainbow of the spray;
We shall know each other better
When the mists have rolled away.
Refrain:
We shall know, as we are known,
Never more to walk alone,
In the dawning of the morning
Of that bright and happy day,
We shall know each other better,
When the mists have rolled away.
2.
Oft we tread the path before us
With a weary, hardened heart.
Oft we toil amid the shadows,
And our fields are far apart.
But the Savior's "Come, ye blessed"
All our labor will repay
When we gather in the morning
Where the mists have rolled away.
3.
We shall come with joy and gladness,
We shall gather round the throne.
Face to face with those that love us
We shall know as we are known.
And the song of our redemption
Shall resound through endless day
When the shadows have departed
And the mists have rolled away.

"We Shall Understand It Better By and By," Tindley, is based on this Sankey hymn; first sung in the Free Trade Hall, Manchester, in 1883 at one of Mr. Moody's meetings.

The following song seems to be based on "When the Mists Have Rolled Away."

Lyr. Add: WHEN THE MIST IS ROLLED AWAY

1.
We're tossed and we're driven
On this restless sea of time;
Summer skies and howlin' winds
All succeed a bright sunshine;
In that land of Perfect Day,
When the mist is rolled away,
We'll understand it better by and by.
Chorus:
By and by, oh, when the morning comes,
All the saints of God be gathered home.
We will tell the story how we overcome;
We will understand it better by and by.
2.
We are often destituted
Of the things that life demands;
Want of shelter and of food.
Marchin' through this borrowed land
----------------------
----------------------
We'll understand it better by and by.
3.
Temptations and hidden snares
Often takes us unawares;
And our heart is made to bleed
With the words and thoughtless deed;
And we're brought to a test
When we're tryin' to do our best
But we'll understand it by and by.

No. 9, p. 442-443, M. E. Henry, ed., "Negro Songs from Georgia." Songs obtained from Miss Julia Stokes, Atlanta, GA. "Sung by "Aunt" Martha Hardwick (colored), of Blakely, Early Co., Georgia, May, 1929."
Jour. American Folklore Society, vol. 44, no. 174, pp. 437-447, Oct.-Dec. 1931.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:36 PM

YouTube video: Peasall Sisters-"Farther Along"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc6mcKUucaw&search=I%27ll%20Fly%20Away%20brother%20where%20out%20thou

Added August 16, 2006;From hoover4000
"this little girls are actually good, and very cute. They sang "keep on the sunny side" for the movie "O Brother Where Art Thou?"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: We'll Understand It Better By and By
From: TinDor
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 12:16 PM

Instru (stride version) of the Tindley song by Thindley

Thelonious Monk - Bye Bye When The Morning Comes - 1963