BS: Zip codes/post codes

Subject: Zip codes/post codes
From: Cappuccino
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 03:40 AM

I'm sitting here in Oxfordshire and I'm preparing lots of packets and envelopes to send stuff to several of you American-type people, and I'm wondering about zip codes. Here in Britain, I believe the prosaically-titled 'post code', of two groups of three or four letters and numbers, will identify a house within say a hundred yards.

How closely can an address be located by zipcode alone? Why do some zipcodes have five numbers and then another four - I thought at first it was for more precise location in a big city, but I've just realised that one like that appears to be in the middle of a desert. And is it really true that the absence of a zip code will cause a long delay in a letter getting through?

And I'm wondering why I'm writing that first sentence in the present tense, like I'm being Damon Runyon...

- IanB

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: kendall
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 05:41 AM

I dont know all there is to know,(about anything) but, as I understand it, the numbers do nail it down to a specific place. For instance, here the O is the region, (New England) the 4 is the state (Maine) then I must slip to the last number, 6, which is South Portland Maine. The extra numbers such as, 04074-0313 is my old address. The first five are for Scarborough Maine, and, the 0313 is the Post Office box. That's all I know.

The delay you were told about is not that bad, although, if some postal employee has a bad day he/she might tend to ignore that letter. Go into the mudcat resources and check out addresses. Many of us are listed there.

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 06:24 AM

What genius dreamed up the British ones - he'd obviously never tried to sort them on a computer:

1 or 2 letters followed by 1 or 2 digits then a space then 1 digit then 2 letters. So after B1 comes B10, B11 etc, and B2 doesn't get a look in till after B19.

And then central London is different again - not EC42 but EC4P!!

But then the GPO persevered with odd 1/2ps in stamp values long after everyone else had given up.

Confused? You will be.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Banjer
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 07:38 AM

Yes the numbers do locate a specific area. I think the whole purpose of the zip codes and postal codes for Canada and other side of the pond folk is to make them sortable by machine. I notice also that if the zip does have a four number extension, in many cases that extension is the same as a PO Box number, if one is used. All I know is all the bills that are addressed to me, (and some that aren't) seem to find their way safely to my mail box.

I have not trusted the US Postal service since I was in the Army. I was young and foolish back then when I sent home a packet of irreplaceable photos. They never arrived and the fellow that took the pictures and had the negatives shipped out to Nam shortly after taking them and never returned.

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 08:00 AM

Look up a zip code here.

The extra four letters on the end is a more recent addition, so not all addresses include it. I have a post office box for my mailing address which causes a lot of confusion. Like Kendall said, if a postal employee has had a bad day (or if they're new) and the letter has the street address instead of the PO box number, it gets returned or has a nasty sticker on the outside saying that I should advise all correspondents of my correct address. This is impossible for me to do because people get my street address out of the phone book. Also, every time I fill out a form, I put both addresses, but some bureaucrat deletes the PO box number so that only my street address is entered. Here in a small town you can actually just put the name and town, and it will eventually get to the correct person.

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 08:04 AM

Everything you never wanted to know can be found in FRANK'S COMPULSIVE GUIDE TO POSTAL ADDRESSES

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Allan C.
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 08:17 AM

According to the United States Postal Service:

ZIP is an acronym for Zone Improvement Plan. A ZIP Code is a 5-digit code that identifies a specific geographic delivery area. ZIP Codes can represent an area within a state (an area that may or may not cross county boundaries), an area that crosses state boundaries (an unusual condition), or a single building or company that has a very high mail volume.

The "extra" four digits that appear after the main body of numbers in the zip code do often denote post office box numbers. They can also link a street address to a specific area within that identified by the first five numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 08:26 AM

Mary mentions small towns.........The village I live in as far smaller than where Mary lives and the postmaster (Harold) knows damn near everyone by name. We have two rural route drivers and one postman for town delivery so you can see we're pretty small. Like Mary said, if something manages to make it here with my name on it, I'll get it. Mail can also become a source of gossip here too, nothing nasty or invasive really, but not many people here get packages from overseas and the fact that I get a number of things from 'Catters around the world makes me a mail celebrity.....doesn't pay as well as a male celebrity, but.........Having received several packages from Australia, I've gained quite a bit of status down with the hot-stove coffee klatch at the Shoot & Scoot!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Allan C.
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 08:49 AM

David C. tells me that he once got a letter from a young niece (who lives in another state) that was simply addressed, "Uncle David, (his town,) West Virginia". There is something sorta special about having the postmaster/mistress know you that well.

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 09:39 AM

About being well known ~~ I have always thought that mail addressed to Natalie, Nova Scotia would find its way to its intended recipient.

Because of a rather long and not all that interesting reason, anyone sending mail to my community has several options. Any combination of two town names and their respective zip codes will work,

It has been said that mail addressed to the 9 digit identifier will reach the intended address, since all are supposed to be unique. I have heard that in practice though, that such mail is frequently returned to sender.

Ah, there is the music connection ~~ return to sender, address unknown, no such number . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Banjer
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 03:35 PM

'Spaw sez..........Having received several packages from Australia, I've gained quite a bit of status down with the hot-stove coffee klatch at the Shoot & Scoot! .....

What he doesn't tell us is that as a result of eating what was in some of those packages he was also well known to the local Air Raid Marshalls and various EPA dignitaries also visited the area...but didn't stay long because of the odor caused by the offending product...or the after effects therof! This is probably why he lives in the small town environment..can't get anyone to build or move within 30 miles of the lad.

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 04:04 PM


The ZIP code thing has been fairly well covered. It is a "location specific" code that can be used for mail routing. The basic 5-digit codes gets the mail (usually) to a specific "letter carrier's" route. Or at least to a specific Postal substation.

The "extended zip code," the added digits, should be specific to a particular "mailbox."

The actual use of the ZIP code is premised on someone actually reading what is written, and entering the ZIP code so that it is printed in barcode along the bottom of the envelope. After that, the letter can be processed "by machine." Only large or "central" POs (technically "mail distribution centers") actually bother to "barcode" stuff, and mail that you recieve without a bar code probably hasn't benefited from having the ZIP in the address.

Mail with the extended ZIP - all 9 digits - should be deliverable with no other address, but it ain't gonna happen. In practice, the actual delivery person doesn't use the ZIPS, and will send it back to the "dead letter office" - which is equivalent to discarding it, in many cases.

Some addresses may have both a PO Box and a "street address." According to mail instructions in company phone books (Raytheon and Boeing, among others) the USPS practice is to use whichever is listed first.

The distribution centers will "hand sort" anything without a ZIP, and the delay is not that serious (if everybody's in a good mood there on that day).

If the delivery person can't make out the right street address (or PO Box number), turnaround for someone to look at it and "hand address" a correction may run up to 3 months. (Or "unto forever.")

All of above based mostly on personal experience.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 05:12 PM

A vaguely-related, slightly-off thread question: when I am foolish enough to buy anything over the Internet from a US company, the Web sites often insist I enter a valid zip code, even when their web site allows overseas countries. Admittedly, its just bad web programming on their part, but is there a valid 'no such zip' code? (By the by,I tend to put NA when they insist on a state - that's Not Applicable, isn't it? Whatever, it seems to work)

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 09:50 PM

I don't think our telephone book ever lists PO box numbers. One time when I moved into a new house I didn't give them my street address, so they just checked the deed. Because of the time of year and the fact that we were the first house on the street, all the deed said was L56 (lot 56). So the phone book listed my address as 156 instead of 163 which it eventually became. That little error may be the reason my house got egged one night. But then it may have saved me other eggings!

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: rangeroger
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 12:33 AM

My town has no house to house mail delivery, so everyone has to have a PO box.Anything mailed to the street address goes to the PO box.The Postmaster pretty much knows everyone,so the mail goes to the right person as pointed out by other small town residents.

The funny thing is, if I mail something to Kellogg,2 miles east of me, it gets routed through Spokane,Washington,70 miles to the west.It can sometimes take 4 or 5 days for a letter to make the trip.

The mail sorting machines can also become confused if you write out the full name of a state instead of the the 2 letter designation they are programmed to read.IE;Washington instead of WA, California instead of CA...etc.

rr

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: GUEST,Fortunato
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 10:12 AM

IanB.

Because the address environment is so diverse in the US, and must identity locations like the end of a dirt road in Kentucky, a small island in Maine, and a high rise in Manhattan and a suburb in Takoma, the zip + 4 provides differing information. In a sub-division in Kansas City, the last two digits will identify two houses, yours and your neighbor across the street. In a Post Office box environment it will be a section of boxes. The USPS determines the necessary delivery information for the specific address and assigns a zipcode and uploads it to the national database.

These codes enable automating sorting of the mail nationally. Without them the USPS could not sort the hundreds of billions of pieces of mail done each year. It works like this. When you drop your letter in the mailbox in the UK it is flown to a large Airport Mail Facility in the US. It will be processed on a machine with optical character and bar code readers that will send it into one of several product lines depending on the preparation you have done. It will then be handled according to your preparation through automated systems, receiving in the process a zip+4 barcode. Even if your mailpiece is handwritten and has no zip code it is unlikely (25%) a person will engage it until it reaches the hand of the letter carrier or box clerk. If it is typewritten the chances are much smaller, add a zip code and then a plus four and you get down to less than 7%.

. Hope this helps. Fortunato

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Cappuccino
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 10:51 AM

Well, thank you all - even though I read part of John's post as 'mail destruction centres' the first time. Thanks Fortunato, I've actually seen the OCR machines working here in Britain, and I'm told that they incorporate an 'intelligent' facility, by which even a slightly wrong zip/post code, or a slightly mis-spelled town name, can be compared with each other automatically, and the machine makes a decision on the likely destination.

I was simply curious as to the amount of detail a zipcode would give, exactly on the lines Fortunato said - from dirt roads to high-rises.

But now it brings up another question. Spaw, what the hell is a Shoot & Scoot?

- Ian B

Subject: RE: BS: Zip codes/post codes
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 11:20 AM

I get my mail at a PO box in a city (Portsmouth, NH) 25 miles away. Nottingham, where I actually live (can't fit everything inside that damned little box), has no house to house delivery (that type of delivery comes through Barrington, an awkward drive to pick up packages, etc., in the opposite direction) so we did have a Nottingham PO box for 15 years, but then reached a point where our schedules didn't allow us to pick up the mail except, perhaps, alternate Saturdays -- a real problem. But while we had the Nottingham PO box, mail addressed to the street address (which is what is listed in the phone book, of course) got to us. Now the Nottingham post office doesn't officially know us, so anything addressed to our street address gets sent back as undeliverable. I think only the totally anal retentive use the additional 4 numbers of ZIP plus 4. It means there's enough numbers for every man, woman, child, dog and cat in the country, but they still haven't figured out how to actually find us (except for junk mail).

Bat Goddess