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UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Paddy Plastique Date: 07 Dec 01 - 12:30 PM Anyone know if there's any out of work Somerset singers out there anywhere ?? Well, my fiendish plan would be to have 3 of them parachuted into Whitehall (or wherever Mr. Howells' Ministry of Karaoke is based) and then for them to dog the poor New Labour Welsh bugger in his every move for a couple of months.. sort of 'Brasseye' style - or like what the Gardai did to to the General. Of course, the remaining hordes of Somerset singers would also have to work flat out doing fundraisers to pay for the 'special forces' campaign.... any takers ? ... 1st 100 quid to come from the Wurzels, I s'pose ;-) |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Hawker Date: 06 Dec 01 - 08:30 PM I would like to know if he is anti JUST Somerset Folk singers or all!!!! No, really, this sort of thing is very wrong, The UK government is always banging on about our multicultural society. This form of music is a part of our heritage, which cannot be said for some forms of music today!!! Mr Howells should crawl back under his stone after he has publically apologised and got on with the debate in an unbiased manner - Politicians - I'd rather listen to 3 Somerset Folk singers than them rabbitting on what a load of old **!!£$**¬! Lucy |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 06 Dec 01 - 02:00 PM I think it may also come as some surprise to Hamish, that according to The Times he is a "folk drummer".
Some say there is no such thing as bad publicity. Not so sure that I agree 100% with that but it is not anything new in the UK for our music, just comfirming the stereotypical view that the Minister expressed.
I really think that we have to stand up now, get together and stop confirming the view that folkies can be safely ignored until needed for a safe ministerial joke or a 'silly season' press headline.
It is quite staggering when you take a good look at the damage this legislation has done and continues to do to folk clubs, sessions and traditional activities here. The battle is not won, it is only just starting. The answer is not for clubs and sessions to continue to skulk and hide away, but to demand the essential freedom of individuals to be able to proudly take part in the musical activities of their choice. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 06 Dec 01 - 10:32 AM The Times itself displays a degree of ignorance on the subject. Sharp first encountered Morris dancers at Christmas 1899 (not 1895) at Headington in Oxfordshire (not Somerset). Meanwhile, the Wurzels continue their campaign of self-publicity on the coat-tails of Howells' stupid remark. The worst possible outcome of the affair would be for people to believe that this undistinguished "mummerset" comedy band were in any way representative of folk music! |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: A Wandering Minstrel Date: 06 Dec 01 - 10:25 AM Mooman, what you do in the privacy of your own home is your concern :D I'm still trying to come to terms with the idea that the Wurzels are the defining voice of English folk! One way round the little corporals is to sing in the pub anyway and just not tell them. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 06 Dec 01 - 10:09 AM The following must have been in a later edition of The Times.
The Times 05 December 200.
A minister whose job is to promote culture and the arts is facing the music today after insulting the county most associated with England's centuries old folk tradition..
Kim Howells, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for the Department of Culture, Media and Sport said the idea of listening to Somerset folk singers was his idea of hell. His remark followed a question about restrictions on the number of musicians permitted to play together on licensed premises.
Somerset played a leading part in English folk music throughout the last century, beginning with the work of Cecil Sharp, founder of the English Folk Dance and Song Society. Later the tradition continued with bands such as the Wurzels, the Western Country Dance Band and the Yetties.
Sharp spent most of his career in Somerset researching the origins of its folk music. he rediscovered much of the area's traditional music that was played in the 17th and 18th centuries, which was already on the verge of being lost and forgotten in the early 1900s.
He first watched Morris men perform in the county in 1895 and shortly afterwards began his life's work, collecting and documenting the dances. Bands such as Roots Quartet continue to play Sharp's songs to audiences across the county and have recently produced a CD of the music collected.
Wally Dent agent for the Wurzels said: "It's disgusting that someone in such a role as Dr Howells should make such inappropriate and ill-informed remarks. I suggest he spends a little more time around the area and learns about its musical traditions"
Martin Carthy, the guitarist and singer regarded as one of the most influential figures in English folk music, whose admirers are said to include bob Dylan said. "Musicians have a tough enough time without a prat like that". Hamish Birchall, a folk drummer said. "If that's a joke, it's a very bad joke, particularly coming from a culture minister".
Somerset is also the home of music festivals such as Glastonbury, while PJ Harvey, who was last week Voted the greatest female rock and pop artist all time, is the daughter of a Dorset farmer.
In the commons exchange David Heath, Liberal Democrat MP for Somerton and Frome said. "Is it not ridiculous that, in the unlikely event of Michael Jackson and Maddona teaming up to do a gig down the local pub, they could do so, yet three people singing Somerset folk songs would not be able to do so?"
It is a criminal offence for more than two to play together in pubs and restaurants, which means that a quiet jazz piano trio or a string quartet are barred while karaoke or discos are permitted. Dr Howells was quick to respond to Mr Heath. "For a simple urban boy such as me, the idea of listening to three Somerset folk singers sounds like hell" he said. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 06 Dec 01 - 09:05 AM Kim.Howells@culture.gsi.gov.uk.
It would seem from earlier attempts that comments from non-UK residents, expressing their appreciation of our traditional activities, are very effective in informing and influencing those in power, who do not appreciate them.
Is Dr Howells going to be asked to present the BBC folk awards, wonder? Martin Carthy, is quoted in The Times as referring to the Minister as a 'prat'. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:20 AM See here UK folkies etc, for a small victory for commonsense over the "Environmental Health chappies". |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Firecat Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:18 AM Just goes to show, politicians have no taste in music! Firecat, who is involved in student politics as Schools Liaison Officer for the Selby College Student Union! Oops! |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: sian, west wales Date: 06 Dec 01 - 04:39 AM Well, it's front page of Wales' Western Mail today, plus another article on page 3, and a bit of comment in the Editorial. So ... sian |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,MC Fat Date: 06 Dec 01 - 04:22 AM At least this has stimulated debate even if some of the comments have been stereotypes or even way off target (i.e. The Wurzells I mean they were crap years ago !!). However as I think I mentioned in a previous thread the problem is really in enforcement and the fact that enforcement is handled by Environmental Health chappies who as most folks in the UK know are slightly to the right of Attilla the Hun. Local Authorities and their henchmen of the Waffen SS (aka Environmental Health) should have written guidance ( a Statutory Instrument ?) to desist from enforcement pending new legislation. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Dec 01 - 06:58 PM I note Gareth spells it Sommerset throughout - is that a accepted variant, or a personal idiosyncrasy? I hope the former - it looks better, to my mind.
Ain't it marvellous though - for years people bang their heads against the wall and get nowhere trying to get some attention paid to it, and then a politician makes a joke that could be taken as insulting somebody, and suddenly the focus is on it for a day or so.
Except of course they completely miss the point, which is that the sort of music being played makes no difference. However Kim Howell's crack did get through the wall of indifference, and we should be thankful to him for it. (And after all people say much worse things about the Welsh all the time and get away with it.) |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Gareth Date: 05 Dec 01 - 06:53 PM I heard it, I was not well pleased - unfortunately this is what we have to overcome. Gareth
I have sung the folk tradition, with one finger in my ear, |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: running.hare Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:41 PM "Did anyone hear MH talking to Jeremy Vine on the JY show today? During a discussion about Kim Howells' remarks, Mike played JV a couple of examples of current folk music. He enjoyed a brief burst from Nancy Kerr and James Fagan, but after hearing Cara Dillon remarked '..but that's not Folk'". I caught the said interveiw 1/2 way through. JV continued his 'thats not folk' coment with "the's not been a single hey nonny non in it"!!! ohh talk about enlightened DJs!!! MH was comenting about how no folk is played in all the varied mix of other music on 'mainstream' raidio 2 (as apposed to just 1 or 2 hrs a week) JV's final coment was "I don't see how we could play any folk music with out getting a folk band in to the studio" So if any 1 want's to volenteer to play live on Radio 2 Get emailing!!! alturnitivly send them an CD or 2 that they can play on air ;) ~lizabee |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Herga Kitty Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:03 PM Oh blimey - after all that I've just seen the post to umf saying Mike Harding talked about it on the Jimmy Young show today! "Did anyone hear MH talking to Jeremy Vine on the JY show today? During a discussion about Kim Howells' remarks, Mike played JV a couple of examples of current folk music. He enjoyed a brief burst from Nancy Kerr and James Fagan, but after hearing Cara Dillon remarked '..but that's not Folk'". |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Gareth Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:03 PM BTW Little known fact. Historically there is a strong link between Sommerset and South Wales. Firstly many Sommerset Folk came into the Coalfield at the end of the 19th centuary to find work, be it in the coal or the railways. Secondly, during the various army occupations of the Rhondda, in 1911, and again in 26 the Sommerset Regiment was used as the "garrison troops". Folk memories, and documentation, suggest that in 1926 the Sommerset Regiment had, from the comanding officer downwards, a feeling and sympathy for the population. There were complaints from the Coal Owners Association, and the then Chief Constable of Glamorgan - one Captain Lindsay - That the Sommersets were neglecting their duties and fraternising with the locals. In fact refusing to act as the armed wing of the Coal Owners, turning a blind eye to the scavenging of small coals from the tips etc., and in the words of one South Wales Miners Federation Official "Protecting the Population from the Police". The commanding officer refused to allow his officers to dine, or be entertained, by the Cheif Constable, or the Colliery Owners. Needless to say when the Sommersets left it was with, not a few, local recruits, and brides - And a lot of good will. Inrerestingly whilst that regiment was stationed in Ireland in 1918 onwards, similar complaints were also made. The comanding officer was the same when the regiment was engaged in Ireland, and the Rhondda. I wish I could remember his name. Can any Catter recall him, it was the same man who told his officers and men to apply for, (and they got) "safe Conduct" passes from the IRA to engage in Sporting or Social activities. All of which is massive thread drift, but may put the remarks of Dr Howells in context. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Gareth Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:02 PM BTW Little known fact. Historically there is a strong link between Sommerset and South Wales. Firstly many Sommerset Folk came into the Coalfield at the end of the 19th centuary to find work, be it in the coal or the railways. Secondly, during the various army occupations of the Rhondda, in 1911, and again in 26 the Sommerset Regiment was used as the "garrison troops". Folk memories, and documentation, suggest that in 1926 the Sommerset Regiment had, from the comanding officer downwards, a feeling and sympathy for the population. There were complaints from the Coal Owners Association, and the then Chief Constable of Glamorgan - one Captain Lindsay - That the Sommersets were neglecting their duties and fraternising with the locals. In fact refusing to act as the armed wing of the Coal Owners, turning a blind eye to the scavenging of small coals from the tips etc., and in the words of one South Wales Miners Federation Official "Protecting the Population from the Police". The commanding officer refused to allow his officers to dine, or be entertained, by the Cheif Constable, or the Colliery Owners. Needless to say when the Sommersets left it was with, not a few, local recruits, and brides - And a lot of good will. Inrerestingly whilst that regiment was stationed in Ireland in 1918 onwards, similar complaints were also made. The comanding officer was the same when the regiment was engaged in Ireland, and the Rhondda. I wish I could remember his name. Can any Catter recall him, it was the same man who told his officers and men to apply for, (and they got) "safe Conduct" passes from the IRA to engage in Sporting or Social activities. All of which is massive thread drift, but may put the remarks of Dr Howells in context. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Herga Kitty Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:50 PM As a matter of interest (after the previous link to the BBC website etc) - I was late home from work today so I missed Mike Harding (as well as the BBC 2 programme "Go Home on Time). Did this get a mention at all on our weekly BBC folk music programme? If not, is there any chance it might get mentioned on Andy Kershaw's programme on Friday??? |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,Peter jackson Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:32 PM Maybe the guy loves folk music and just doesn't like people from Somerset. You know the famous line, "No, He's not predjudice, he just doesn't like assholes.... |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: lady penelope Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:31 PM " The people's flag is brightest pink It's not as red as people think! "
" The people's flag is darkest grey TTFN M'Lady P. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: lady penelope Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:30 PM " The people's flag is brightest pink It's not as red as people think! " TTFN M'Lady P. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Dec 01 - 03:31 PM Or one singer in any public place other than a pub. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 05 Dec 01 - 02:00 PM The Department of Culture, Media and Sport dismissed Mr Howells's comments as "throwaway remarks", but did not say whether a formal apology would be made.
"Mr Howells is a music fan and he did not mean to cause any offence," a spokeswoman said.
The point was the question he was replying to was a good one and at the heart of the whole issue. I don't really want him to apoligise but he should answer and fully address the question. Two 'mega stars' in a pub do not need a licence, but 3 Somerset folk singers are prevented from singing without one. Fearing that we may be "straying into very dangerous territory" is not answer enough.
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 05 Dec 01 - 01:41 PM The following is Hamish Birchall's view of the latest deveolpments.
Dr Howell's did also say that the rules regulating live music in pubs and restaurants were 'silly'. But he only made a vague commitment to the possibility of a new licensing Bill in next year's Queen's Speech. Even if that happened it could be a further two years before legislation finally makes it onto the statute books (i.e. 2004). |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Dec 01 - 01:01 PM "try singing an anti-war song to the wrong crowd right about now... " - I take it that means in the USA. We don't seem to have those kind of crowds in folk clibsd in England so far as I'm aware. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 05 Dec 01 - 12:48 PM At the BBC website: Folk fans furious at minister |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Willie-O Date: 05 Dec 01 - 10:57 AM If you want to get horsewhipped and a damn good shellacking, just try singing an anti-war song to the wrong crowd right about now... Willie-O |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: mooman Date: 05 Dec 01 - 10:31 AM Minstrel! Are you seriously suggesting that we should not be horse-whipped? I for one would be most disappointed.... mooman |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 05 Dec 01 - 10:25 AM I caught the whole of the BBC's short follow-up feature to Kim Howells' unfortunate (though, I am sure, innocently and humorously intended) remarks. The upside of it was a brief visit to the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at Cecil Sharp House, with some sensible comments from Tim Walker, Chief Officer of EFDSS; the downside was an embarrassing clip from an elderly Top of the Pops programme featuring the Wurzels singing Combine Harvester, which is exactly what is needed to reinforce popular prejudices based on ignorance. If in doubt, it seems, show a parody of folksinging rather than the real thing; an easy cop-out which will simply encourage the snide and facile comments of those who, seeking an easy target, set up a man of straw in order to knock it down. The real article is made of stronger stuff, which is presumably why the carpers choose to mock a target which is largely of their own invention.
Presumably the BBC believed that it was presenting a balanced report. Roger's post, which appeared while I was typing this, suggests that the Wurzels' appearance was a result of their earlier, self-publicising intervention, and not the fault of a misguided BBC researcher; the effect, however, is the same, and does traditional music in England no favours. The Wurzels are representative of folk music in much the same way as Bob Monkhouse represents comedy.
Of course, if Mr Howells had the Wurzels in mind when making his comment, I can't say I blame him; though it's a pity he called them folksingers. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: A Wandering Minstrel Date: 05 Dec 01 - 09:52 AM The Daily Express eh? that explains a lot. For the uninformed thats a paper mainly read by right-wing landowning people who probably think that folksingers should be regularly horse-whipped! Looks to me like Doc Howells was actually having a good try at getting round to attacking the Two-in-a-bar rule in which case more power to his elbow. Not being from Somerset I am otherwise entirely unmoved :) |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: John Routledge Date: 05 Dec 01 - 09:22 AM I found the Hansard transcript very encouraging although I accept the danger of accepting totally what is said by politicians. In it's context I see no problem with Howell's albeit not very funny joke. Keep making representations - and music. Cheers Geordie |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 05 Dec 01 - 09:08 AM The Times 05 December 200. By Dalya Alberge. Arts Correspondent.
A disparaging remark by a Government culture minister about folk music has provoked an angry response from musicians.
Ian Smith, organiser of the Musician's Union's folk section, said "It shows how crassly ignorant someone of that level is. It's an insult. The folk and acoustic world has never been bigger".
Daily Express 05 December 2001 Now, accordionist of the Wurzels Tommy Banner, famed for the seventies hit Combine harvester, has hit back. "we play all over the place", he rages. "our music is for people fed up with listening to people like Kim Howells talking a lot of dung in the Commons." Perhaps a tape of Combine harvester would help Dr Howells pass the time in the kennel? |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Micca Date: 05 Dec 01 - 09:05 AM This story was featured in the main BBC nws at 1 oclock today, complete with a spokesperson from EFDSS I only Just caught part of it and hope it will still make the 2 pm news when i can get a better idea of how they are treating it!! |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Dec 01 - 09:03 AM I'd place the right to sing and make music slightly behind the right to breathe, and on the same level as the right to free speech, of which it is an example.
If someone running a cafe or a bar wants to say they don't want music or singing, more fool them, but they are within their rights. When a law says you have to have a licence to chat away to your friends in song or music, that is a law too far.
Who are you calling a Brit? |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,Illuminata Date: 05 Dec 01 - 08:40 AM You know, remarks which refer to music in pubs as an "essential freedom" and limits placed upon it as a "breach of human rights" is pretty off-putting and disingenuous. Some of you Brit folk truly are an arrogant lot. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,MC Fat Date: 05 Dec 01 - 08:11 AM We've got it all wrong by describing the music we know and love as traditional (or otherwise)British 'Folk Music'. To get anywhere in todays management speak world we need re-brand as 'Ethnic English Music' , 'Ethnic Scottish Music' etc. Believe me it's worked for someone I know who's is getting paid to teach Ethnic Irish Music to a community group in Sheffield. Otherwise the 'system' just thinks we're white middle class wankies. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Grab Date: 05 Dec 01 - 07:31 AM Shambles and IanHP, he's expressing his personal opinion, which he's entitled to do. He's also saying explicitly that although it's his personal opinion, he realises that the subject is important, and he will support those hypothetical 3 Somerset folk singers regardless of whether he enjoys their music. So let's go for a more fundamental truth. Rather than "politicians always saying stupid things", let's remember that the press will _always_ misquote them, or quote them out of context, if there's a story that can be made out of that misquoting. Think Al Gore and the Internet. Or think Cardinal Richelieu - "Give me six lines written by an honest man, and I will find something in them to hang him." Untwist knickers, remove from high horse, etc... Graham. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: mooman Date: 05 Dec 01 - 07:07 AM I agree with The Shambles that the pressure needs to be kept up but find the Hansard transcription encouraging despite Kim Howell's lame joke! He will most certainly qualify as a true "grockle" as of now! mooman |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:06 AM You have to remember that Kim Howells is from South Wales. Where (to quote Flanders and Swann) they sing "much too loud, much too often and flat". RtS (Disclaimer: this does not apply to any Welsh Mudcatters, any of the many friends I made living in Cardiff in the '60s or any members of Plaid Cymru with arsonical leanings) |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 05 Dec 01 - 02:28 AM For jolly good reason too. (The following is from the other thread).
Given all the problems presented to sessions and gigs by law and council authorities in England, The following is incredibly the way things are in Scotland....
(source: Donald McLeod, Licensing Solicitor, Aberdeen council):
In Aberdeen alone there are about 300 public houses, hotels and restaurants. A band could walk into any of these premises and play without any problem. The number of musicians is not an issue. The licensee does not have to do anything - he is not committing any offence, nor does he have to pay anything to the local authority.
Venues like nightclubs or theatres these are more closely regulated, usually requiring a Civic Public Entertainment Licence (Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982) which imposes additional public safety conditions.
The above was obtained by Hamish' Birchall, whose comments follow......
So here we have neighbouring EC jurisdictions one of which effectively limits musicians' employment to 5% of 111,000 potential venues, while in the other there is no such restriction. The difference could not be more stark. Note also the complete lack of any financial penalty for the provision of live music in these premises in Scotland.
I am quite sure that this extraordinary difference has legal implications. Scotland's live music laws are rational, and the country is actively implementing Article 27.1 of the Universal Declaration; but the equivalent law and enforcement in England/Wales is irrational (prevents live music where there are no noise or safety concerns), and actively opposes Article 27. The difference dates from about 1982 (there was a radical overhaul in Scottish licensing in 1976, but the full effects did not come into force until '82). Let us not do what UK folkies seem to to best, argue amongst ourselves about the finest details. let us all just keep up the pressure. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,Boab Date: 05 Dec 01 - 12:27 AM Er---to a Scot-Nat, "British Labour Party Minister of Culture" reads like an oxymoron-----[ :-), kind of!] |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: paddymac Date: 05 Dec 01 - 12:08 AM I know it's a big "if", but if the excerpt of the the debate presented above is accurate, it seems that the Minister's words have been taken out of context. Sounds as if he was merely trying to make a joke. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Coyote Breath Date: 04 Dec 01 - 10:32 PM Wow, guys. Here in Jolly Old Missouri it is strictly up to the club(or bar or grill or coffeehouse or whatever) owner whether there is live music in the establishment. The owners (or managers) also decide on what kind of music but it is a pretty relaxed business. If you have a business license (and probably even if you don't) you can present almost any entertainment you wish. How is it in other areas? Australia? Canada? Japan? Germany? Other states in the US? Business licenses are not expensive here, either. CB |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Dec 01 - 08:25 PM That was a sound-bite sort of remark - holding out bait in the hope it'll get picked up in the press. The thing that Kim Howells would probably most dearly love is to have a loud explosion of indignation from folkies, because that could make a better story. Cartoons. Have I got New for You. Private Eye. Attention!!
So I don't think there's any actual danger of annoying the man by kicking up a fuss.
Stories in the paper about this kind of thing probably help us, by drawing attention to the existence of folk music in pubs. But you can be certain that any stories mentioning it are going to poke fun. Not that that matters much.
I was pleased that in that parliamentary exchange there was at least a nod in the direction of recognising that music doesn't just happen in pubs. The bizarre thing is while the proposed legislation, when they get round to it, should go some way towards reducing the restrictions that discourage music in pubs, it seems pretty clear that there are no plans to liberalise the far stricter restrictions on music, including even a single person singing, in other places - such as coffee bars.
And that is clearly a breach of Human Rights, if we aren't allowed to sing when we choose.
Perhaps the letters to Kim Howells should point out that it isn't just three Somerset singers who would be barred from singing by the current laws, but a single Welsh politician, if he were to wish to sing in the House of Commons tea room. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Herga Kitty Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:40 PM Shambles - Yes, but if you really want to keep up the pressure you need to enlist the continuing support of sympathetic MPs |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:26 PM If you wish to express a view directly to the DCMS, you could email Licensing Minister Dr Kim Howells: Kim.Howells@culture.gsi.gov.uk |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Herga Kitty Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:17 PM Shambles It doesn't work like that. Central Government can circulate guidance and make recommendations to local authorities on how they exercise their statutory functions, but local authorities can stick two fingers up if they want to, unless Central Government has a stranglehold on funding. I know because I work for the DTLR. It was quite encouraging to read David Heath's remarks on the contribution live music in pubs can make to tourism, because the DTLR is about to launch a consultation on revised criteria for directing traffic to tourist destinations (with white and brown signs). If you want any more info on this let me know. I |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:11 PM UK folkies etc.
I think it is wrong to think that the government are introducing the licensing reform for the interests of folkies. It is up to us to ensure that the reforms do address these problems. They still seem to think it is a joke. These remarks give us a perfect opportunity to bring attention to these problems. The more complaints that are made by outraged folkies, the better. |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Gareth Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:09 PM Teresa - I know it off by heart, but some thing ain't posted. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Teresa Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:07 PM Oops, forgot the HTML code there. Getting rusty, I guess Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, |
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