UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:02 PM

More details of the problem Urgent help UK folkies etc.

Given the problems presented for our session in the past year, I feel that the remarks, light-hearted I accept, are very ill advised for the Culture Minister to make.

Essential freedoms being curtailed by local authorities are not matters for Ministers to joke about. If Mr Howells does not understand this yet, he certainly needs to be reminded of this until his department actually provide a firm date for reform or issue firm instructions to local authorities as to how they deal with sessions and folk clubs, until the law can be changed.

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Teresa
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:59 PM

Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We sing the "Red Flag" once a year.
--From a parody by Leon Rosselson

Don't have access to the lyrics and credits at the moment. ...
Teresa

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:57 PM

I came across a quote the other day to the effect that the reason so many politicians are assassinated is that nothing else seems to faze them...

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:55 PM

Thanks Gareth

I really think it would be counter-productive to organise angry protests against a throwaway remark in the Commons if the DCMS are actually planning to do what folkies have been asking them to do for the last several years.....

Sorry about duplication of messages but that's because the posts are getting stuck in the ether and the only way out without losing your text is to send it again.... (or is it???)

Kitty

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:50 PM

OK, I apologize to this specific set of politicians, in this particular context.

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Gareth
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:47 PM

I can assure you that having heard Kim Howells give an odd rendering at Labour Party Social Functions at conferences, he is not anti folk. - If it had been, say "The Blackleg Miner", "Cosher Bailey", or say that Valleys favourite "Hymns and Arias" then he would have had no complaints.

Don't forget it was Terry Pratchett who coined the phrase "West Country and Western".

Read Kittys full text B4 u complain.

Gareth.

"I'll sing you the tale of the Collier and the Candle,
Of a long bitter fight that darkned the Land"

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:39 PM

Thanks Kitty.

Madonna and Michael Jackson performing together in a pub would be Hell for me.

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:35 PM

Gosh Joe, that was quick - you corrected it before I sent the correction 3 minutes later. I only put the angle brackets in because you'd put line breaks in song lyrics I posted before!

Ian HP - the House of Commons exchange makes you wonder how Kim Howells feels about Lowdens in the Midlands .....

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:20 PM

I've already posted on this to Shambles' PEL thread, and umf. The context is actually that the Minister concerned was announcing that the British Government are planning to change the law to make it easier for pubs etc to get public entertainment licences, which will make life easier for live musicians generally including folkies.

The full exchange in the House of Commons was as follows:-

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmhansrd.htm

Music (Licensed Premises)

<<11. Mr. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North): When she will introduce legislation to abolish the restrictions on the numbers of musicians permitted to play together in licensed premises. [16995]>>

<<The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Dr. Kim Howells): We intend to present a Bill to reform and modernise the alcohol and public entertainment licensing laws as soon as parliamentary time permits. However, there is no current restriction on the number of musicians who may play together in licensed premises if the licensee has first obtained an appropriate public entertainment licence. I am aware that obtaining such licences can be a prohibitively expensive business in some local authority areas, because of the attitude of those authorities.>> <<Mr. Hopkins: Many thousands of part-time and professional musicians who wish to play and entertain in pubs and restaurants, and millions who wish to listen to them, find that that is not possible because of the current restriction--the two-in-a-bar rule. Is it not nonsensical that a quiet jazz piano trio or a string quartet may not play in such premises, while a loud karaoke machine or discotheque may operate in them? >>

<Dr. Howells: I entirely agree. We want to make licensing a much simpler, less bureaucratic and cheaper process, so that there is no deterrent to seeking the appropriate licences. It is obvious that the legislation badly needs to be updated: it dates back to the mid-1960s, when I suppose an acoustic-guitar folk trio made a good deal less noise than one person with a loud amplifier. >>

<<Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate): If the legislation needs updating so badly, and given that legislation modernising licensing laws was promised to the electorate in the Labour party manifesto, why did that proposed legislation not appear in the Queen's Speech? >>

<<Dr. Howells: Because this Government were elected to improve public services. Those were the Government's priorities, as we made very clear, and they are the priorities that we have stuck to in our legislative programme. We hope very much that there will be space for a Bill allowing us to make these reforms, and that it will be announced in the next Queen's Speech. >>

<<Mr. Tony Banks (West Ham): Are we not living in a much nicer world when we can listen to music rather than having to face the music, as we have to here from time to time? >>

<<Will my hon. Friend look again at the restrictions on buskers on the underground and at British Rail stations? They add to the enjoyment and gaiety of life, but so often they are moved on. Can we not view the situation in a proper way, so that the buskers can earn their living and we can all enjoy their performances? >>

<<Dr. Howells: I do not believe that that would be part of a reform of licensing Bill, but it is an interesting thought. Some extremely dreary public places are enlivened by the activities of buskers. >>

<<Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome): Is it not ridiculous that, in the unlikely event of Michael Jackson and Madonna teaming up to do a gig down the local pub, they could so, yet three people singing Somerset folk songs would not be able to do so? Does the Minister not recognise that live music in pubs and inns has the potential to make a major contribution to tourism in rural areas, which we have already said we want to promote? >>

<<Dr. Howells: We are straying into very dangerous territory. For a simple urban boy such as me, the idea of listening to three Somerset folk singers sounds like hell. Having said that, the hon. Gentleman is right: music does enliven many pubs and restaurants. It should thrive. Silly rules are preventing it from doing so. >>

---

Kitty, Mudcat reads angle brackets as HTML commands, and you have to use special ampersand codes to display them properly. Best not to use them at all unless you're doing HTML.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:17 PM

I seem to recall another man named Kim who wielded a lot of power......Cambridge man. He was listened to by people all over the world. Maybe this Kim is worth keeping an eye on too......

Spaw

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:08 PM

I'm from Somerset and my Mom don't understand me
I'm from Somerset and Kim Howells just can't stand me
I sing on a stage with two other mates.
I voted Labour those dirty ingrates
Even though We sing like we have the whooping cough
If you don't like our singing you can bloody well feck off!
But keep those government grants a coming our wayyyyyyyyyy.

(Sorry I misread. I see now that he is Minister of Culture. I guess Somerset folk singers are culture of some kind.)

On a serious note, a Minister of Culture shouldn't really be making value judgements on such things. It probably indicated a lack of taste or tact or judgement on his part. Maybe all three. As a Canadian living in the USA who actually did not hear the remark I think I'll confinr my complaints on the matter to this forum. Good Luck Ian!

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:53 PM

How about a man named Kim???

What is the context? Why would a labour minister care? Are the folksingers in Somerset in some sort of a special union or guild? Is there anything especially bad about folk singers from Somerset? I can't imagine why anyone in Ireland or Spain would care what he said about three hypothetical singers from Somerset. It all seems very surreal to me.

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:44 PM

Aw, they were probably navel-contemplating singer-songwriters. I can't think of anything worse than THAT, either.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:44 PM

I dunno. Was he speaking of folk musicians in general or musicians from Somerset? Or perhaps he had three specific musicians in mind, in which case I shall reserve judgement until I've heard them myself. Besides, saying that politicians make stupid comments is a lot like saying beer is wet, regardless of party affiliation or side of the pond.

Subject: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
From: Ian HP
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:27 PM

During a discussion on BBC Radio Bristol about a parliamentary debate yesterday (3 December 2001), British Labour Party Culture Minister Kim Howells said he "couldn't think of anything worse than sitting in a pub listening to three folk singers from Somerset". What a disgusting state of affairs that a Labour Minister - or any - should be so ignorant, dismissive and insulting of his cultural heritage. Could you imagine the reaction if this had been said in Ireland? Spain? etc.. Complaints, please, to House of Commons, London.