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Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen
DigiTrad:
THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN
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Subject: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: michaelr Date: 16 Jan 02 - 03:57 PM Does anyone know the origin/history of this song? Is Skreen a place in Ireland - or could it be a corruption of Skibbereen? Any info appreciated. ~Michael |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Sorcha Date: 16 Jan 02 - 04:34 PM It appears that Skreen is a real place; haven't found info about the song yet. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: lamarca Date: 16 Jan 02 - 04:48 PM Don't know the history, but I DO know that the DT's version for the second verse looks wrong (as are a lot of transcriptions from recordings). Even SingOut recently published the words incorrectly. Here is what the DT has, with my corrections:
A lad I spied by The tune has been "regularized", too - on Mick Hanly's version, there are a couple of lovely accidental notes that make the tune a lot more interesting, and I think the tune is printed that way in Sam Henry or Peter Kennedy (my books are at home, so I can't check right now). |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden whose cookie has expired Date: 16 Jan 02 - 05:26 PM Screen is short for Ballinascreen the Irish name for Draperstown (South County London/Derry. The song is a very beautiful version of the song also known as "P stands for Paddy" or "T for Thomas" |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: DonMeixner Date: 16 Jan 02 - 05:48 PM Hi Michael, The Corrie Folk Trio and Paddy Bell did a version of this tune that I am quite fond of. Roy Williamson, the author of The Flower of Scotland sang it. It was an Elektra recording here in the states. Elektra always had a brief description of the songs in those days. 1960's. If I can find the LP I'll look it up for you. Also try The Corries web site. There is a question and answer forum there. Gavin Browne gives the questions to his father, Rommie Browne and he answers them if he can. Don |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Stewie Date: 16 Jan 02 - 06:32 PM It is #8 in Colm O Lochlainn's 'More Irish Street Ballads' who noted that he had learned it from Dr Seamus O Ceallaigh, a native of Ballinascreen, and that Herbert Hughes had printed the tune and the 3 final verses in 'Irish Country Songs Vol 1' Boosey 1909. A friend of mine used to sing a nice version of this which I believe he learned from Nigel Denver's 'Rebellion' album. --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: michaelr Date: 16 Jan 02 - 07:42 PM Thanks all who replied. It appears there are two possible locations: Skreen, Co. Meath, and Ballinascreen, Co. Derry. I'm surmising here, and welcome corrections, but the word "Braes" could be Scots and, with the known Scots influences in Northeast Ireland, the Co. Derry town could be the more likely one. I'll have to look for Mick Hanly's and the Corries' versions; I'm familiar with the one Steve Tilston sings on the John Renbourn Band's "Ship of Fools" LP (one of the most brilliant albums ever). Again, thanks for the help. Michael |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Alice Date: 16 Jan 02 - 07:58 PM I thought I had written the Hughes collected lyrics in an earlier thread - haven't searched the forum for the old one yet, but in Herbert Hughes, he credited it to an old ballad from County Derry (from his 1909 Vol One of Irish Country Songs). Alice Flynn |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Barry T Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:06 PM Midi and (a set of) lyrics are here, but I can't recall my source for the lyrics. It was from an old book, and the word was spelled with a K. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,BigDaddy Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:14 PM I could be mistaken but I think we'd better turn our quest toward Scotland. I don't know of any braes in Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Alice Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:17 PM ... like I said... the song is from County Derry, Ireland. Alice |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Dale Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:17 PM I wouldn't know about the Corries/Bell version, BUT I do have the Fureys/Bell version on Capitol International 10559. That album and Capitol International 10543, by Anne Byrne with Paddy Roche and Mick Crotty, are still among my very favorites, and were the very first albums I converted to CD ~~ it is playing as I type) If anyone is interested in a Real Audio of Paddie's version, I will post it. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Dale Date: 16 Jan 02 - 09:24 PM The Corries Discography gives the recording history of both the Corries/Bell (1965) and Fureys/Bell (1963?) versions, both of which apparently were released originally on Waverly. |
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Subject: ADD: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 16 Jan 02 - 09:48 PM here are words I learned from Dave MacDonald, a Welshman living in Newfoundland. The Verdant Braes of Skreen As I roved out one May morning On the verdant banks of Screen I put my head to a tall tall tree To view the dew on her forest green The dew on her forest green A lad I spied near our burnside With a lass by an alder tree Her lips were like the berries when red and she a winsome one to see and she a one to see Come sit you down on the grass he said on the dewey grass so green The wee birds have all winged and gone Since I've my true love seen she said Since I've my true love seen Oh I won't sit on the grass she said No lover I'll be of thine For I fear your heart has gone astray Your love's no longer mine she said Your love is no longer mine Oh I will climb that high high tree And rob the wild bird's nest And back I will take whatever I find To the arms that I love best he said To the arms that I love best (hope I did the line breaks right) ---Jeff (PA)--- |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 16 Jan 02 - 09:51 PM oops. Looks like I did it wrong. Anyway, I heard it is one of those Irish symbolism songs..the arms he loves the best are Ireland..he is going to rob England and take the plunder to Ireland or some such thing...don't know for sure. The wee birds mean something, the birds' nest means something.. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Big Tim Date: 17 Jan 02 - 01:15 PM "brae" is commonly used in the Ireland as well as Scotland eg "Dolly's Brae", especially in the north. I was born in Donegal overlooking Carrowkeel BRAE! John M: thanks for the explanation of the place name, it's one that has baffled and eluded me since hearing the version by Louis Killen in the 60s. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 17 Jan 02 - 02:13 PM The song is too well known in other shapes, from wherever English is spoken, for the symbolism theory to hold water. It almost certainly had its origin outside Ireland. Here are the refs from Steve Roud's Folksong Index of Jan 2001.
T FOR THOMAS Oh if I was to climb a lofty old tree Journal Journal of the Folk-Song Society 8 (1927) p.25 C. Sharp MSS Williams, Mrs. Kathleen England : Gloucestershire : Wigpool Common 1921 (6 Sep) Sharp, Cecil J Text / Music |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Mrrzy Date: 17 Jan 02 - 02:23 PM 2 things: Braes is a singular noun, yes? (And when they bore his body down that rugged heather braes they placed a broad black brimmer on his head). And that line about climbing the high high tree appears in the seemingly completely unrelated Singing Bird. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Henry Date: 17 Jan 02 - 04:44 PM Glad to see you back in the land of the living, John. A Happy New Year to you and yours! Henry |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 17 Jan 02 - 06:02 PM Only sporadically Henry. Brae is a singular noun, braes is plural. The Singing Bird is not a traditional song but by the poet who called herself Katherine Tynan. Any coincidence of image between that song and this is a coincidence not a connection. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Sligoman Date: 17 Jan 02 - 08:01 PM There is also a parish of Skreen and Skreen Beg, just west of Ballysadare Bay near Aughris Head in County Sligo. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: michaelr Date: 17 Jan 02 - 09:43 PM Whoa there John - talk about too much information! But I do appreciate it. Whaen you say "it almost certainly had its origin outside Ireland" may I assume you mean Scotland (and not Liechtenstein)? Thanks again to all you awesome scholars. Michael |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,JTT Date: 18 Jan 02 - 11:47 AM A brae is a kind of shallow little glen. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Mrrzy Date: 18 Jan 02 - 11:55 AM The Wolfe Tones really do sing "that rugged heather braes" not THOSE rugged heather braes. Hmmm. Thanks, though. And to quote the Cardassian tailor on Deep Space 9 - "I believe in coincidence. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences." How old is the poem Singing Bird? While it may not be a "traditional" song it is nonetheless performed as a song by traditional singers, like the Clancy Brothers, which is how I know it. I also heard it sung when I was in Ireland. I'd like to know which came first, the Bird or the Braes, tee hee. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST Date: 18 Jan 02 - 12:38 PM Ballinascreen County Derry derivation = The Townland of the Shrine. Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Date: 18 Jan 02 - 01:31 PM |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 18 Jan 02 - 01:40 PM Sorry about pressing the wrong button just above. The singing by the Clancy Brothers of a song is no earnest of it being traditional.I know of only one singing by traditional singers of The Singing Bird and that is by the McPeake family. The Clancy Brothers almost certainly learned it from them. The author Katherine Tynan (also Hinkson) was living and published in 1894. Try DJ O'Donaghue: Poets of Ireland (1912) for more details. I don't have access to a copy presently. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MartinRyan Date: 13 Feb 11 - 04:41 PM Nice recording of The Verdant Braes of Skreen HERE Regards |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Tattie Bogle Date: 15 Feb 11 - 09:04 AM Beautifully sung! And another one here from Cara Dillon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K07SNDcQc28 |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Richard Mellish Date: 15 Feb 11 - 06:28 PM The word order in the line "Since I've my true love seen" seems to me another indication of the northern Irish origin. I associate the song particularly with the McPeakes. Richard |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Lighter Date: 15 Feb 11 - 07:51 PM Martin, thanks for posting. Wow! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Taconicus Date: 20 Mar 11 - 11:08 AM There's a verse on Briege Murphy's version (audio clip at link) that starts "And I'll not mind...." Does anyone know the origin (and full lyrics) of that verse? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: ollaimh Date: 20 Mar 11 - 11:08 PM i have to agree that mck hanly's version is among the best. i was in the boyne valley a year ago , staying at a lovely spot called the decoy cottages, and we went to a nearby pub in a village called screen. i wondered if that was the site of the origional song==but i guess not. i do love that song. i think john renborne's group ship of fools did a fine version as well--but that takes me back to an old album long gone. hanly's album "a kiss in the morning early" is one of the best folk albims of all time "over black water" from the same era is also fine i play it with a finger picking style guitar accompanyment, in dadgad tuning. people respond well at gigs, but i lack hanly's subtle ornimentation. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Screen Resident Date: 03 May 11 - 01:48 PM I live in Co Sligo Ireland in a parish called Screen and onhe area of the parish is referred to as "Ladies Brae" it may be what the song refers to as one can look west to County Mayo from the top |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Guernsey Pete Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:55 PM I was SURE, positive, positive, it was 'SCREE", no 'N'. Was this just from somebody's sloppy singing, or am I getting old ? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Don Wise Date: 31 Oct 11 - 07:59 AM The Corries & Paddie Bell recorded it on the LP "The Promise of the Day". Unfortunately, the sleeve notes are only about the musicians, not the songs. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Lighter Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:11 PM David Hammond recorded the song beautifully in the 1960s. I can't recall the name of the album. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MartinRyan Date: 01 Nov 11 - 02:51 AM Skreen |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:56 AM According to old Francis McPeake "Braes of Skreen" refers to " a range of hills in Tyrone ". It may possible be in the area of Donacavey, near Fintona. JMA |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Nov 12 - 01:28 AM Yes i learned it off the Corries and The Promise of the Day album. Bu the time I nought it - the version of the Corries withjust two of them playing had their own TV series - so the repackaging of the The Promise of the Day on the Music for Pleasure label was a desperate cash in. I bought it at the local supermarket. The Corries version was only three verses Oh I won't sit on he grass she said No lover will I be of thine For I hear ye lie wi' a corner lass And you heart's no longer mine, she said And your heart's no longer mine. I seem to remember Mick Hipkess of Drowsy Maggie singing a similar version. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:42 AM "... corner lass"? What mean ~~ prostitute, perhaps. Or possibly a mishearing or mondegreen? ~ I know this in most versions I have heard as "For I hear you are in love with a Connaught lass [or 'maid', tho 'lass' better makes an interior ½-rhyme or assonance with 'grass'], And your heart is no longer mine". (Connaught, along with Leinster, Munster and Ulster, was one of the ancient 4 kingdoms of Ireland.) ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:18 AM And running round in my head, a clinching final verse that I can't recall whose singing I got it from ~~ I will never more trust what a young man says Be his eyes either blue or brown, Unless that he be on a high gallows-tree And he says that he wants to come down, my dear, And he says that he wants to come down. Anyone else come across this stanza? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:36 AM Connaught makes more sense |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Jim McLean Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:25 AM The Corries sang: ... for I hear ye lie wi' a Connaught girl .... |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:29 AM And there was me thinking the lucky old boot was having it off with the female equivalent of a corner boy. Or even a girl from notorious Connor family. Silly me! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN (from Hughes) From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Nov 12 - 11:40 AM Sheet music for voice and piano accompaniment can be found in Irish Country Songs, Vol. 1, edited, arranged, and for the most part collected by Herbert Hughes (London: Boosey & Co., 1909), page 1: [Only 3 verses are given.] THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN [Words?] From an old Ballad. [Music?] County Derry. "Oh , I'll not sit on the grass," she said, "Nor be a love of thine, For I hear you love a Connacht maid, And your heart is no longer mine," she said, "And your heart is no longer mine." "Oh, I'll not heed what an old man says Whose days are well nigh done, And I'll not heed what a young man says, For he's fair for many a one," she says, "For he's fair for many a one." "Oh I will climb a high, high tree And rob a wild bird's nest, And back I'll bring whatever I do find To the arms that I love best," she said, "To the arms that I love best." |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:24 PM When I learnt this song a long while ago it included the "I'll not heed ..." verse, as also recalled (with somewhat different words) by MtheGM. Only now following some of the links further up this thread do I discover that some versions lack that verse. I have never been sure which party is saying some of the things. "I'll not heed ..." is probably the girl speaking, but could be the boy telling her not to believe what she's heard about him. Where some versions have "back I'll bring ... she said", the lovely version from Mai Hernon has "back I'll bring whatever I shall find to the girl ...". So there is indeed uncertainty. The alleged new lover is often said to be a "Connaught" maid, but in the version that I first heard it sounded more like "Garnock" and both the Hernon and Dillon versions sound to me like "Carnock". Anyone have theories about that? Richard |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Richard Mellish Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:38 PM Above was me. Cookie now reset. Dunno why it had disappeared. Does someone cause them to disintegrate by dipping them in the tea? Richard |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:42 PM Years ago I won a song writing shield award from Connaught Gold Butter. But even then I didn't make the connection. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN From: Jim Dixon Date: 14 Nov 12 - 07:35 PM From Colm O Lochlainn, More Irish Street Ballads (Dublin : Three Candles, ©1965), page 16: 8.—THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN As I roved out one evening fair, By the verdant braes of Skreen, I set my back to a hawthorn tree, To view the sun in the west country, The dew on the forest green. A lad I spied by our burn-side, And a maiden by his knee, And he was dark as the berry brown red, And she all wae and worn to see, All wae and worn was she. "O! sit ye down on the grass," he said, "On the dewy grass so green, For the wee birds all have come and gone Since I my true love have seen," he said, "Since I've my true love seen." "O! then, I'll not sit on the grass," she said, "Nor be a love of thine, For I hear you love a Connacht maid, And your heart is no longer mine," she said, "And your heart is no longer mine." "O! I'll not heed what an old man says, For his days are well-nigh done, And I'll not heed what a young man says, For he's fair for many a one," she says, "For he's fair for many a one." "But I will climb a high, high tree, And rob a wild bird's nest, And back I'll bring whatever I do find To the arms that I love best," she said, "To the arms that I love best." [End note:] More than fifty years ago I learnt this from Dr. Séamus Ó Ceallaigh who lived at 53 Rathgar Road. He was a native of Ballinascreen and numbered among his ancestors Cormac Ó Ceallaigh, a famous harper and harp-maker. See Ceól No. 3 ** Dr. Ó Ceallaigh. Herbert Hughes has printed the tune and the three final verses Irish Country Songs, vol. i (Boosey, 1909). In Dr. Ó Ceallaigh's house was held one of the last meetings of the leaders before the Rising of 1916. |
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