Making a demo CD

Subject: Making a demo CD
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 02:42 PM

Hello all. I'm soon to be making a short fiddling demo in a home studio, with the intention of having something recorded that I can hand out if I'm trying to get work. I have very little confidence in the musical or recording expertise of the guy with the basement studio, so I wanted to ask a few questions here first.

1. I was planning on doing just two tracks, a medley of fast tunes and a waltz; do you think that's enough?

2. I'm not sure whether to do them as a fiddle solo or to add rhythm guitar. On one hand, the guitar would probably make it sound better. But on the other hand, if the point of a demo is to demonstrate what I can do, and I can't play fiddle and guitar simultaneously in real life, maybe solo fiddle would be more appropriate.

3. If I do add rhythm guitar, my instinct is that I should do the guitar track first. Is there any reason I should consider doing the fiddle track first?

4. If I play the guitar (and it may sound like I've already decided to, but I haven't), would it be better to use the studio's "condenser mike" or the (Fishman) pickup in my guitar?

5. The guy tells me that the results can be burned onto a CD. When I'm buying a blank CD to bring, is there a difference between CDs meant for computers and CDs meant for CD players? Can I expect a CD burned by a computer to be playable on any CD player, or will it be in some other format and only readable by computers?

Thanks a lot Mudcat friends,

Marion

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Spartacus
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 02:48 PM

You should do at least 5, and put your best stuff first.

Add the guitar to a few tracks but let the music focus on you.

Always mic instruments when possible.

Any CD labeled CD-R will work. I heard, but cannot prove that the gold dye lasts longer than the blue.

good luck

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 02:49 PM

Ummm... my 0.02...

I think you'd be better off backing yourself, if ya can't find a chum to sit in and help out...

Record the guitar track first...

Condenser mic or pickup? Use 'em both and mix 'em together... with the right mix, it'll sound fantastic!

Differences between CD's... Ummm... not so much these days... If someone has an old cd player they might not be able to spin some of the bigger cds these days, but MOST cd players will support CDR's...

DO NOT BRING A CDRW! CDRW's (re-writeable) are notorioulsy BAD for burning CDA (CD Audio) files onto so they can be read by a cd player...

Good luck eh!

I hope we get to hear it when it's done!

;-)

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Spartacus
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 02:52 PM

Sorry, I missed the which to record first. Definitely the guitar first.

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 08:29 PM

Well, I'd say make it a live recording - if you've got someone who plays guitar who can come along, and you feel you make a better sound with them playing, fair enough. But double tracking with yourself defeats the purpose of the exercise, which is to let people know what you sound like. If you want to show what your guitar -playing is like, do a track or so of that.

Actually if you were insistant on double tracking, I think the opposite way to the people who've said guitar first - the lead instrument is the fiddle, the guitar is playing to accompany it, not the other way round. Starting with a guitar is like starting with a drum and a bass and all that stuff they say you should do for pop recordss - it would be likely to iron out all the rhythmic complexity of the fiddle playing.

There are two types of recordable CDs - CD-Rs are the one you record on just once, and what you get is a CD that you can play on any CD player; CD-RWs are the ones which you can use like a floppy disc or a ZIP disc, put new stuff on and take it off when you want. It is possible to put music on a CD-RW, and play it on a PC - and I believe it is even possible to fix it so that it can be played on a CD player, but the discs cost more, and the result probably isn't as good anyway.

The sort you should use for a demo CD is the CD-R (that's what we call them in England anyway - from the thread it sounds as if they may be called something else in some places). Then you can play it on any CD player. (And you can play a CD-R on a PC, the same way you can play any ordinary CD.)

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 08:37 PM

CDR One time recording

CDRW re-recordable CD

CDA Put a music CD into your CR rom drive on yor PC, and open your windows explorer.. look a tthe file extensions on the 'tracks' on your CD and you'll that the files on the cd are "whateverthetracknumber".CDA

I didn't mean to add to any confusion bringing that up...

;-)

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: GUEST,Fortunato
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 09:35 PM

Marion, I'm going to respectfully disagree slightly with our friends above. I would record your guitar first with the pickup. Next overdub your fiddle, and last over dub the guitar through the microphone. Why? In the first track you can hum or whistle yourself through your tune since their will be no microphone on. It's hard to play rhythmn guitar with no singing or lead. 2nd your scratch guitar track will hold your fiddle to the rhythmn. Last you overdub the 'keeper' guitar track with the mike, and you will have learned somethings about how you want it to sound. I also suggest you keep your guitar as spare as possible, less is more; you want your fiddle to be always out front. Keep your alternating bass notes consistent. Good luck and let me know what you end up doing.

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: hesperis
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 10:53 PM

Another note about CD-R: Ask the guy what brand he uses. Sometimes certain burners don't like certain brands. And have him make you more than one - three is good to start.

The other thing is that older car CD players, and most of the oldest CD players cannot play CD-R because they can't "see" the data on it. It will work on all newer CD players because they've got better technology now.

And make sure there's no dust on it, keep it out of the heat and sun. Burned CDs are a LOT more sensitive to stuff like that than commercial CDs made from a glass master. Keep one of the CDs in a very safe place (like a bank box or the coldest room in your house), keep one to copy off more from (definitely in the coldest room in your house), and play the other.

(Muttermutter, peoplehavegottensousedtocdsthatthydon'ttakecareofthemproperlyanymore, *breath* andthentheyblamethecdifitstopsworkingorskipstoomuch, muttermutter.)

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 11:16 PM

Good advice. I'd go along with Fortunato. You can mix the guitar very low, but remember that the folks LISTENING to the CD, may know nothing about fiddle tunes or how they're supposed to sound. They may notice (and appreciate) a slightly fuller sound though.

Rick

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: GUEST,Firecat at college
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 07:48 AM

Do these tips go towards doing an a capella solo recording of different songs as well? I'm gonna be doing that later hopefully!

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:11 AM

Hey Marion, the important question is, are you in New York City, once again, Sorcha Dorcha has lost it's fiddler - (New York's Hardest Working Celtic Band...). Want to audition? Larry

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:49 AM

agree 100% with fortunato. its incredibly difficult to record a good swinging backing on top of a pre-recorded fiddle solo because there's no give and take between the two players which there is when youre playing live. it wont be perfect with the guitar first, either, but in my experience its alway a million time better. and if you do what fortunato says and put on the bcking again after the solo, it should be a million times better again. god knows why, but thats how it always seems to come out. i dont see anything wrong with guitar backing on the demo even if it wont be there on the night: the object of the exercise is to make thedemo sound exciting so the listeners attention is grabbed, if your guitar bit adds something put it in. that's why you must put your best track first: people listening to demos are generally in a hurry and wont listen to the second if they dont like the first. and dont put a well-known tune as the first track...unless youre the best player in the world good luck, if youve got something to say there's people out there waiting to listen.

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: mooman
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:05 AM

My tuppenceworth! I tend to agree fully with McGrath on this one. I have tried both ways and much prefer to add the rhythm track (e.g. guitar) after the solo instrument. I haven't had a problem getting a good "kick-ass" backing on top of the solo, provided I have listened to the former a few times though and have thoroughly got the "feel" of it.

I do agree though that a better still recording will result when two or more instinctive musicians are able to "bounce" and "feed" off one another. This in my experience tends to add a freshness and immediacy to the recording.

Good luck with the demo Marion!

mooman

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Spartacus
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:15 AM

You may get more feeling out of the recording if you both play together, but I have done a lot of recording at home alone, and with another guitar player. The quality of the recording suffers if you record it all live. If you can record a performance, that's a great way to go. But if you're on a budget and you're using an old four track in your basement, you should do everything you can to keep the sound quality high. That requires recording the tracks individually. That works for me, anyway....

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:16 AM

well this debate is very interesting. i think i'll get the old portastudio out and have a playaround. mooman and mgrah sound as if they know what they are talking about, but my expeience goes the other way. there is another way of course, which is a bit more foolproof, even if it might make for a rather clinical aproach in rhythmical terms. that is to record the solo line while listening to a click track, and then adding the backing. youre less likely to get those awkward little hitches you may get using the other two approaches.

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 12:53 PM

One thing, recording is about getting it on tape or whatever kind of technical wizardry they are using. Once it's recorded, putting it on to a CD is separate process, and might even be done at a different time by different people.

Once it's recorded it can be copied and changed and so forth. And CDs can be made as and when you need them., as few or as many as you want.

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 03:45 PM

So it's agreed that I should get a CD-R and not a CD-RW, eh?

Thanks for your thoughts, everybody.

Marion

Subject: Serial numbers
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 10:06 AM

I'm thinking of doing something similar, and I'll be archiving some old tapes and stuff too. I shall invent some form of serial/catalogue number for any CDs I turn out, mainly for my own benefit; but I find myself wondering, are there any rules about this if I wanted to sell anything? Is there a register of catalogue numbers somewhere that would p[revent me using, say, "HMV" or "SP" as a prefix? Can I just make something up?

Steve

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Deni-C
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 10:17 AM

I was told the serial numbers are for your benefit, therefore SPCD001 etc.... would be the usual sort of thing, or whatever you like....

Cheers
D

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Genie
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 08:26 PM

Marion, re the question of what to include on the demo, here's my thinking.

I don't expect prospective clients to listen to a long demo, especially if they are not enamored of the first song or two. I fear that if the first song is, say, a slow ballad and the second is, say, a fast bluegrass song, and they prefer polkas or R & B, they may not bother listening to the 3rd, 4th, etc., cuts. (Granted, CDs make it much easier for folks to browse thru the demo than a tape would.)

I think the best kind of demo CD is one modelled after those infomercials for "The Best of The 50s" or Slim Whitman or the like. They play a whole lot of 20- to 30-sec. clips in rapid succession. That kind of demo has a chance of letting the prospective client really sample your repertoire without spending a lot of time.

Another option would be to record a 5-min. medley of song clips from different styles and place that at the beginning of the CD, followed by 4 or 5 full songs.

Anyway, just as printed ad copy does no good if folks don't read it, the demo will be effective only if folks will listen to enough of it to get a good representation of your range of musical talents/skills.

Genie

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:13 AM

I expect she's already done it by now, Genie!

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Genie
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:06 AM

Oops! Didn't notice the initial post date when I saw this thread in the forum yesterday, Steve.

Oh, well, I imagine other folks may look into this thread from time to time for a discussion of the general issue.

Marion, I'd be interested to know what kind of demo CD you did end up making and what kind of results you have been getting from it.

Genie

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Hamish
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 08:57 AM

Short as possible whil still covering a representative breadth of material. Strong impact from the first note. Cut the arrangemnts short to keep impact. Having said that, two tracks might make you seem like a two-trick pony (to coin a phrase). Can I have my tuppence now, please?

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: M.Ted
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 01:13 PM

Steve, you probably should started new thread, on cataloging--I would be very interested in knowing how those who do a lot of recording go about organizing their work--

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:19 AM

This came up in Making a demo CD. OK: any observations/suggestions/tips on how to make up a serial or catalogue number for your own home-made CDs? I don't expect there's anything to stop me labelling my first one "SP1" or "SPCD0001" ... or is there? Is there a central registry of record and CD catalogues, where each one has to be unique to safeguard the maker against fakes?

Steve

Subject: New thread
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:23 AM

Oh B*gger! That's supposed to be on the Serial/catalog no's for your own CDs thread! Ignore my last post: another senior moment!

Steve

Subject: RE: Making a demo CD
From: GUEST,An
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 01:27 PM

Hi all, I'm working on a demo myself, and found this thread interesting. I'm in a studio this weekend with a guitar player, to record two songs that I have written. In our tryouts we had difficulty getting the beat absolutely steady. Is there a way to listen to a metronome of some sort through headphones or is that the wrong approach all together. We don't have a semi accoustic guitar at the moment, so the tip of playing that first (which is brilliant!) doesn't work unless the metronome isn't picked up...
Any additional tips from singers or people who have worked with singer/ guitar/ and (in our next recording session) viola are very welcome.
An