Northern Ireland - anthem?

Subject: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,clueless
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:36 AM

I was just wondering - does Northern Ireland has its own national anthem?

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:50 AM

Amhán Na bhFiann/Soldier's Song

Sinne Fianna Fáil,
Atá Fá gheall ag Éirinn,
Buidhean dár sluagh tar rúinn do ráinig chughainn:
Fámhoídh bheírh saor,
Sean-tír ár sinnsear feasta
Ní fágfar fá'n tíorán ná fa'n tráil;
Anocht a theigeamh sa bhearna baoghail,
Le gean ar Gaedhí chun báis nó saoghail,
Le gunna sgréach: Fá lamhach na piléar.
Seo Libh canaidh amhrán na bhFiann.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 10:07 AM

So, Garg, is Canada's anthem "The Star Spangled Banner"?

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 10:15 AM

Gargoyle,

That's the Republic of Ireland's anthem, Northern Ireland is a part of the UK.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: John Routledge
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 10:24 AM

Didn't realise that you were "clueless" Gargoyle.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Big Tim
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 12:04 PM

No. It shares "God Save the Queen" with the rest of the UK.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: The Pooka
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 12:07 PM

I thought it was "The Old Orange Flute". :) (Jussssst kidding fellers....)

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,clueless again
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 12:22 PM

Yeah but even though Wales and Scotland also share the UK anthem they still have their own "regional" anthems. So I thought Northern Ireland might have one as well. Somewhere I read it was "Londonderry Air" - could that be true?

Cheers

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: The Pooka
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 12:33 PM

For a Mudcat thread on Ulster Scots music, Click here

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 12:37 PM

I'm wondering, too. These sites (THIS & THIS) say the national anthem of Northern Ireland is "A Londonderry Air" ("Danny Boy"). According to this site (Click here), it is "God Save the Queen".

~Masato

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 12:43 PM

It's a pity they're both shite. I vote for "mahnah mahnah" by The Muppets.

At my graduation (Queen's Uni in Belfast) the playing of the British National Anthem was dropped in favour of the European one (Ode to Joy), if I remember rightly. (We did, however, have an RUC band at the garden party afterwards playing "The Green Grassy Slopes of the Boyne", but there wasn't much fuss made about that - maybe no one recognised it.)

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 12:44 PM

At 'home' international football and rugby matches they play 'The (London)Derry Air'.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: The Pooka
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 01:15 PM

Well here below is an interesting article, from August 2000 I think, bemoaning the lack of an official N.I. anthem and advocating, among other things, the creation & adoption of one by the Northen Ireland Assembly. / Saaay, is there a Mudcat Challenge in here somewhere? We've been re-writing or replacing some *old* anthems on another thread...I'll put 'Catters' songwriting talent (and Harmonizing skill, on both musical & political levels) up against Assemblymen Gerry Adams's & Ian Paisley's any day...

Click here

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 01:42 PM

Thanks for the link.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,clueless
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 02:28 PM

Thanks very much for the links and info!

Cheers

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 02:37 PM

Do me a favour, how can six sick counties have a national anthem. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Big Tim
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 04:27 PM

Get real Ard: it's not the "six counties", it's NI.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Suffet
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 06:15 PM

Here's my contribution.

To the tune of The Old Orange Flute:

Oh, are we six counties or are we one land?
Do we belong to the U.K. or old Ireland?
If you know the answer, oh do share it, please,
But for the meanwhile, can't we all live in peace?

We've had enough bloodshed, we've had enough war,
And it's getting to be a bloody big bore,
So if you're hot for killing, please do yourself in,
And I doubt that we'll miss you while we sit and grin!

New words © Stephen L. Suffet 2002

Subject: Lyr Add: PEACE IN ERIN (Hugh McWilliams)
From: The Pooka
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 06:28 PM

Good one there, Suffet. :)

Ard & Big, Uh oh, here we go. (Well, I suppose I was askin' fer it. Sorry.) Look, it's both. Wot's inna Name? It's all of the Six Counties of the Statelet of the Province of Northern Ireland of the United Kingdom, and it's Northeast Ulster and two-thirds of the Fourth Green Field and how's about a cheering rousing chorus of the Boyne Water & Three-Quarters Of A Nation Once Again. Me, I like the dialectical designation I learned here on the 'Cat: Norn Iron.

It needn't be a *national* anthem. Just an anthem.

Well, in the spirit if not the letter of the idea, here's one of many fine offerings from the thread "Peace in Ireland: A Song Challenge" - Click here -- this posted by John Moulden in March 2000. (For a heartfelt modern original composition, see Big John's therein, March 11 2002.) For a song to merit Anthem consideration, "Erin" would probably have to go--the Name problem y'know, compounded by an actual *language* issue--but maybe people could agree on, like -- "Ireland"? But it's the Thought that counts. I hope.


PEACE IN ERIN
by Hugh McWilliams
born County Antrim, 1783

Were all mankind disposed like me,
To live in love and unity,
No more contention there would be,
Upon the plains of Erin.
Originally we are sprung,
From Father Adam, old and young,
These words should flow from every tongue,
We'll cherish peace in Erin

We're formed by one Deity,
To worship him, let's all agree,
And live in love and harmony
With every class in Erin.
On Sunday, if our roads do lie,
To Clough, or to the Glens hard by,
It should not weaken friendship's tie,
Amongst the sons of Erin!

What shore can boast so pure an air?
Or sons more brave or girls more fair,
Or who were e'er esteemed in war,
Before the boys of Erin ?
Their courage far abroad is known,
In the field of mars their glory shone;
Then let us cultivate at home,
The laws of peace in Erin !

Would freedom fair and commerce smile,
Upon my dear, my native isle,
Not Egypt with her flowing Nile,
Could equal thee sweet Erin;
Fine silver lakes and pearly springs,
And verdant groves where music rings,
And health, with healing in her wings,
Do bless the land of Erin.

'Tis principle that shows the man,
This is the best, the only plan,
And one that I have built upon,
As passing through old Erin.
Then let us at the present day,
Drive prejudice and spleen away,
Far, far beyond the Atlantic sea,
And all shake hands in Erin!

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 11:52 PM

Officially, the anthem is the British one - which is the same in Liechtenstein, but with different words for some reason or other. When there's an "international" competition, the dreaded Danny Boy is dragged out because the tune doesn't offend anyone, although the loyalists refuse to acknowledge the existence of Londonderry, which they insist is called Derry. Me, I'd suggest the tune of McAlpine's Fusiliers, whatever that is called.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 06:01 AM

At international rugby matches in Dublin, "Amhrán na bhFiann" is played followed by a Phil Coulter confection called "Ireland's Call". Phil should stick to pop music
Annraoi

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 06:09 AM

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are COUNTRIES and not regions as some people think they are. and are separtate Countries from England.

That's why we have nationl anthems for our countries and even though we're still a part of the UK, that's why Scotland has a parliment, and Northern Ireland and Wales have assemblies.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 06:29 AM

It`s ok Tim, I understand watching the oul back again, and Annraoi I couldn`t agree more, it`s bad enough listening to any anthem before any form of sport. No bloody anthems, just get on with the game. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 02:23 PM

If the north of Ireland is a country, perhaps you could help us by showing us its constitution, or governing principles. You know, some founding documents that show that its people have agreed on the principles under which they will govern themselves. Help me here, Tam.

Mick

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 02:52 PM

just go to google and then type in northern Ireland constitution, and then you'll be able to get all the information there.

two sites that I found were

cain.ulst.ac.uk/hmso/cmd5675 and www.geocities,com/capitalhill/cogress/2430/

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 02:59 PM

just go to google and then type in northern Ireland constitution, and then you'll be able to get all the information there.

two sites that I found were

cain.ulst.ac.uk/hmso/cmd5675 and www.geocities,com/capitalhill/cogress/2430

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: allie kiwi
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:21 PM

Is that implying that if there was no constitution you would not consider Northern Ireland a country? Believe it or not there are a couple of countries in the world who manage quite well without one. New Zealand is one of these. But yeah... I get the point about people not exactly agreeing to the governing principals up there!

I remember years ago when the Commonwealth Games were held in Auckland, a boxer from Northern Ireland won gold, but they could not get the national anthem to play. A gentleman in the audience got up and sang 'Danny Boy' to much applause.

Which is the more accepted name - The Derry Air, or Londonderry Air?

Allie

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:29 PM

It first appeared in print in the 19th century under the name Irish Tune from County Derry.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:33 PM

So has Britain, it doesn't have a written consititution either and yet we're a country, made up as four countries.

I agree with Allie Kiwi

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: paddymac
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:35 PM

I agree with Annaroi and Ard Macha that Phil Coulter's "Ireland's Call" isn't exactly what one would think of as being an anthem, but I like it anyway. It's some of the gob shites who use football/soccer as a substitute for a life of their own that I find a mite irksome.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:36 PM

Some very stranger notions are floated on this forum, not the least of which is that "Northern Ireland" is a country with its own written Constitution and National Anthem.
I spend a good deal of my time in and around the seat of government at Stormont and I've never heard either claim made.
Having said that, it is very interesteing that certain words and phrases are gaining increasing currency here. No longer is it politically correct to refer to Ireland. One must say "The island of Ireland". The word "country" is eschewed, again when referring to Ireland. "Island" is once more pressed into service. Reference to "Northern Ireland" even is frequently avoided (the dreaded " I " word)euphemisms such as "the Province" being used instead. When talking about the early years of Christianity, one must not talk of "Early Irish Church" but rather about the "Early Celtic Church". Ogham inscriptions are no longer considered to have been inscribed in an early form of Irish, but in Celtic. Our ancient ancestors in "The Island of Ireland" were. apparently, not Irish, they were Celtic.
So, insidiously, a gap is manufactured to separate us from our roots. Any reference to "Ireland" (unqualified) Irish, Early Irish, Old Irish etc. is not acceptable in "enlightened and liberal" circles. Anyone failing to fall into line is in danger of being branded as divisive.
Where will it all end? Will we be reassimilated into "the Mainland", which, for those unenlightened enough to use terms like "Ireland" and "Irish" etc., is England.
Annraoi

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:42 PM

OK YOU ALL WIN I GIVE UP

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:44 PM

I don't want to argue with anyone, because when I do I get carried away and start to insult people, and I don't want to do that.

However I'll check this thread and then see if I get a response from Big Mick.

And if I don't agree with him, it won't matter because I'll just agree to disagree.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 06:50 PM

The one the could use, since it's sung by both traditions, and takes a knock at both varieties of bigots, would be the Old Orange Flute. Back to Gargoyle's suggestion - well, there is a fourth verse Peadar Kearney wrote to the Soldier's Song with the North-East in mind:

And here where Eire's glories bide
Clann London fain would flourish;
But Ulster-wide what e'er betide
No pirate blood shall flourish.
While flames the faith of Con and Owen,
While Cave Hill guards the grave of Tone,
From Gulluion's Slopes to Inishowen,
We'll chant a Soldier's Song.

But I think that's one for the back burner.

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:36 PM

Tam,
Please try to get it right! "Britain" is composed of two countries, Wales and England.
"Great Britain" came into being with the assimilation of Scotland into Britain, thus making it a unit of three countries.
In the year of 1801, the absorbtion of Ireland under the terms of the "Act of Union" gave rise to the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland".
After the Treaty of 1921, this "United Kingdom" was reduced to "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", the which it remains today.
Ali Kiwi, if my memory serves me right, the occasion happened, but I am open to correction, in Canada. In any case, what is *not* open to dispute is that "Danny Boy" was sung spontaneously by Dr. Seán Donnelly, the medico looking after the Irish boxers.
Annraoi

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: allie kiwi
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 11:50 PM

Annraoi, you could be correct. It is a miracle indeed that I was even watching the boxing, let alone have any memory of who won! Sports mad I am not. *grin*

Allie

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:09 AM

OK I'll admit I'm wrong as usual

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Tam

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,spanner in the works
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 03:49 AM

I vite for "The Ballad of Jane Falloon" otherwise known as "Down The Aghagallon Road". Words to it may be found here. It's the third of three songs by the folk philosophiser and chronicler of the vernacular how-d'ye-dos of the town of the long spade, the estimable Jimmy Creaney - rest his soul!

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 04:09 AM

National anthems are bleddy muzak for cannon fodder anyway... they're all shite...

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,melodymaker
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 07:11 AM

Lets stop kidding ourselves. People in Northern Ireland would never agree on a national anthem. Don't get me wrong.....some would happily agree. But there are many who wouldn't.....just 'cause they've spent their whole life disagreeing. Sad but true

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 07:55 AM

I suppose it'd technically speaking be "a provincial anthem". Maybe "We all live in an Orange submarine..."

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 07:58 AM

My understanding on naming of parts is different from that of Annraoi.

It is that "Great Britain" means exactly the same as "Britain", and is a way of distinguishing it from Brittany. (Grand Bretagne and Bretagne.)

Either way it is essentially a geographical expression. Britain - "Britannia" as the Romans called it - is the big island in between France and Ireland, including the little islands around it such as the Isle of Wight and the Isle of Anglesey, and most of the Scottish ones, but not the Orkneys and the Shetlands. (I'm not sure about the Outer Hebrides.)

(I'm having to break this post into bits because the server is playing up again.)

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 07:59 AM

(last part)

And there isn't technically any such country as "Britain" or "Great Britain". When James I and V came to the throne it was initially referred to as "the United Kingdoms", but at some later stage the "s" got dropped. Would that have been at the time the Scots gave up their last parliament? Is there any move to reinstate the older term?

And the United Kingdom (or Kingdoms) currently includes England, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland (including the islands that aren't part of Britain) together with part of Ulster. But not the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands.

Bloody confusing, isn't it?

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,Melodymaker
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 08:47 AM

Provincial - National.....still unsatisfactory!!

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 08:53 AM

An advice how to use the terms Britain/UK/British/British Isles etc. that I find useful though I don't doubt for a second that most if not all of those living on these islands will disagree with at least one of the definitions.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,The Ard Rí of Irrelevance
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 08:55 AM

The Green Grassy Slopes Of Ardoyne

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,melodymaker
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 09:16 AM

Living there myself...i think you have misunderstood my point

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,melodymaker
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 09:25 AM

I only meant that there will undoubtably be dissent, what ever tune/tune title you come up with. I had a bit of hope until I saw that interview that Blair did with the young people from N.I. There are still fascists being bred.....closed minds abound. Scarey!

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,Declan
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 09:45 AM

Whatever one thinks about the status of the six counties of Northern Ireland the one thing it isn't is a single nation - so a national anthem can't exist for it. It would be nice if there could be a song that everyone could unite behind, but I think it will take time and hard work before that could be achieved. Danny Boy is useful suggestion, but unfortunately once you use the alternative title the row over "London"Derry starts off. And the words of the song, while fine (if a bit mawkish)in that context hardly form the basis of an anthem.

There was a new set of words written for this song (I think by Tyrone Guthrie but I might be completely wrong about this) and recorded by De Dannan some years back. These words referred to 'a land by love united' which is at least a lovely aspiration, but a while off I think. The song also contains at least one reference to God which will probably upset the atheists (both the catholic atheists and the protestant ones).

One thing that gives me hope is when I see the South African Rugby team playing and the (still mostly white) crowd passionately singing the old ANC anthem. Who'd have thought that 20 years ago ?

Subject: RE: Northern Ireland - anthem?
From: GUEST,melodymaker
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 10:06 AM

My sentiment exactly Declan. However, it is my belief that many in N.Ireland believe they are a seperate entity. And therefore believe they should have their own anthem. (Cath, Prot, Athi, alike