Does one have to prove oneself daily?

Subject: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 04:02 PM

I've gotten to where I'm playing at open mics whenever I get a chance, usually every other day or so.

Someone offered me half a gig, and I have a lead on another one. Now I have to practice and prepare for one 45 minute set, possible 2 45 minutes sets if I get the call on the other gig. Just what I needed, really!

Just wondering if part of being a performer is a certain amount of potentially healthy insecurity. Yesterday, for example, I felt for some reason, well, "I suck" or something...and felt like I needed some confirmation that I don't, like playing in front of people.

What's good about this? I have a hunch that most performers go thru this. Should I factor this in as part of

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 04:03 PM

the deal?

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 05:32 PM

Michael: The first time I read your message, I got the impression that your "I suck" feeling set in after you got the gig, that is, that you began to worry that you weren't a good enough musician to pull it off. I even started writing a response based on that interpretation.

Then I re-read your message, and now I think I understand that you felt bad at first, and that getting the gig made you feel better. If that works for you, fine, more power to you. It means most of what I was going to say is irrelevant, but c'est la vie.

I think it's dangerous to rely on getting music gigs as a cure for depression, though, if that's what your problem is. You can't count on gigs to always come just when you need them. Audiences are too fickle, and their appreciation too shallow, to give you a sustained sense of self-esteem.

And I don't think that being insecure makes you a better performer. It might motivate you to practice more, which is good to a point, but I think it's also possible to be over-rehearsed. If you rehearse until the piece becomes boring to you, you've probably overdone it. I think both you and your audience will be better off if you can conquer your feelings of insecurity some other way.

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Cappuccino
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 05:34 PM

I admire you for playing at them so regularly, and wish the great success.

- Ian B

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 05:36 PM

Hey Jim,

Over-practicing a piece is not something that I'm likely to ever do.

Not depressed, just anxious. I think it's fairly normal, actually.

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 06:28 PM

From my experience, many performers have a bit of a weak ego. It may be that many folks are attracted to performing to feed the need for approval. Then again, there are plenty of folk out there who are in it solely for the love of the art, and could give a whistle if anyone is "approving" or no. And then there's all the rest that fit someplace in between.

When I feel "I suck", I trudge on and get past it. Eventually, there's a reward, and that makes it all worth the while. When this is no longer the case, I will likely be retiring.

Here's hoping that your rewards outweigh the downtimes! :D

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 06:44 PM

Jim: You nailed it. Whether you're singing to prove yourself, or trying to be funny... whatever it is. If you're trying to get someone else's approval by proving that you're good at something you're on an endless treadmill. Now, anxiety... that's a different story. Most people feel anxious before they perform. The first time I ever got up and did a song at an open mike, I like to died. I would have preferred facing a stampeding heard of cattle. What finally delivered me from most of the anxiety is noticing how much EVERYONE screws up, and no one seems to care. I've heard great, great singers forget verses to the point of having to just give up and not even try to finish the song. Once you start to enjoy yourself and have a good time, it won't make any real difference if you screw up here and there... just keep going on, and if you feel the urge to laugh, go right ahead. Just try to have a good time. It's difficult (but not impossible) not to have a good time when someone else is. If someone doesn't, count your blessings that you don't go home with them at the end of the evening.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: JedMarum
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 06:51 PM

Does one have to prove oneself daily? Of course. It is the way of the world.

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Amos
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 08:28 PM

The price of excellence, man. It drives really greeat comapnies and really grat performers in any sphere -- they care like hell about the creation of beauty in their genre.

A

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Lynn
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 09:11 PM

Michael - Check out my response in the thread 'Old Folkers', which I posted last night (4/13). I've been doing this sort of thing since '83. Some nights it feels great. Other nights you want to crawl under a rock. Yes, in a sense, you have to prove yourself everytime you go out on stage. Do it enough and you develop a following who loves you regardless. But remember too, harking back to what Jerry R said, "Once you start to enjoy yourself and have a good time, it won't make any real difference if you screw up here and there... just keep going on, and if you feel the urge to laugh, go right ahead." Everybody does it; the trick is, if you don't TELEGRAPH IT to your audience (e.g., a muted yet audible 'oh, s**t' or a look on your face) 98% of your audience won't know. Good luck, lad. Keep singing. Open mikes are great (I went to two regularly when I started out). They can really help you hone your stuff.

Proud to be an old folkie.

Lynn

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 10:31 PM

If I was a brain surgeon and made a mistake, it'd be terrible. Someone could die. If I, as a musician, make a mistake, the worst that can happen is that someone will be bored.

John Hartford told me this a while back.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 10:34 PM

Another thing is picking up an instrument. It's like a foreign thing many times. I have to prove TO MYSELF I can play it.

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Cappuccino
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 10:47 AM

Well, you can. And, bizarrely, every single person who plays an instrument can do something on it that the next man can't. I haven't a clue why that should be true, but it is.

So, while having a lot of fun with the things you can do, have a little laugh by thinking that the next guy along probably can't do it as well as you!

(True story - the lead guitarist in Dolly Parton's band was always baffled by her fingerpicked intro to one song... Jolene, I think. She could do it - however much he tried, he couldn't!)

- Ian B

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 11:07 AM

To look on the bright side - that "I suck" feeling from time to time is a good thing. Reminds you that there is always room for improvement or variation.
And then it always feels so good when you realise you don't suck after all......

Kris

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: GUEST,jonesey
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 11:38 AM

Hello Michael, There's alot of valuable input to this post so far and I'd be pleased to offer my perspective as well. Consistency is the key. We all go thru growth periods as performers/songwriters, etc. As you spend more time onstage and applying whatever principals of practice you've learned offstage your fluctuations will even out. Seems you must be doing 'something' right as you've been offered a couple of gigs. Prepare as well as you can without being hyper-critical or obsessive, then relax and 'enjoy' yourself and the audience will, too. Play to 5 like you're playing to 50(or 500) and 50 like you're playing to 5. Once, backstage when I was griping about my own guitar playing(and I was getting session work at the time!)a well known folksinger said, "Get a grip, 98% of people are amazed you can do a clean C chord!" Never forgot that...

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 11:40 AM

I think a slight bit of nervous tension is the norm, no matter how much or how little you rehearse, or how many years you've been doing it. It makes you feel alive.

The thing I've noticed lately is that it takes the fingers and brain a little longer to coordinate at the start. I used to pride myself on being able to play "cold," now I try to warm up at least 15-minutes before the gig. I'm starting to wonder if those musicians who soak their hands in near-boiling water just prior to playing might be on to something (or maybe ON something, who knows!).

The good thing to be said for rehearsing and knowing your set list pretty well is that a lot of gigs can change mood in an instant. The other night our group played for a fraternal lodge. We were told it was to be partly a concert and partly a dance situation for a group of visiting "blue hairs" (the rinse that older women wear in their hair), so we brushed up on danceable tunes and slow to medium tempo songs we thought would be suitable.

What we got was a few blue hairs and spouses, and a large group of 40-something bachelors who had been drinking! We started getting requests for fast stuff, Peter, Paul & Mary, Kingston Trio, etc. Some we were able to do, and our set list for the final two-thirds of the evening just went right out the window. If two of the four in our group knew something, we attempted it, and actually did pretty well, and had fun.

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 12:34 PM

I only compete with myself, and have to prove myself to myself. (does that make sense?) Some days I have practice sessions that get me really frustrated; other days I am satisfied with my work. I feel like I am the one who has to be pleased with what I'm doing; and if I'm happy and confident, listeners will enjoy me. At least that's how it's supposed to work. ;-)

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 04:01 PM

> Eventually, there's a reward, and that makes it all worth the while.

>Does one have to prove oneself daily? Of course. It is the way of the world.

>...they care like hell about the creation of beauty...

>every single person who plays an instrument can do something on it that the next man can't

>Reminds you that there is always room for improvement or variation. And then it always feels so good when you realise you don't suck after all......

>We all go thru growth periods as performers/songwriters, etc. As you spend more time onstage and applying whatever principals of practice you've learned offstage your fluctuations will even out

>I think a slight bit of nervous tension is the norm, no matter how much or how little you rehearse, or how many years you've been doing it. It makes you feel alive.

Great responses! Yes, it's proving to myself I'm talking about..

I definitely do it for the love of the art, and what it does for me. No matter what's going on, I have always turned to music. The transition from personal mode to a more public mode is what I'm finally facing now.

It certainly is exciting to have others pleased with what is so important to me. No doubt about it, I feel more alive and proper with the stepping out.

I think the core of it is that once I start considering myself a performer...and if I don't perform for a while...well it's a similar feeling to being between projects or jobs...perhaps a healthy reminder to keep going.

In the meantime, more private experimentation and...dang...practice, I guess...so that I can do more than 2-3 songs before dashing off relieved and satisfied.

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 08:36 PM

As a person -- only occasionally. As a performer -- only when you get on stage. Keep in mind that it is s combination of insecurity and arrogance which drives us to get up in front of a room full of strangers and think that they will care what we're doing to begin with. Both are useful to your humanity, your musicianship and your performance.

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 10:43 PM

well I am not sure that you HAVE to prove your self daily or at all but the fact that you see your working to be entertaining and skilled and listenable all the good stuff about being on that stage, the fact you see that as proving yourself is a real gift. Be thankful for it. Be as critical and as honest as you can.

I feel sometimes that when I get praise, I'm not "worthy". I see the flaws and glitches and I know that I didn't reach my best level and when people come up to me after a set and TELL me how good it was I sometimes feel as though I cheated.

Isn't THAT nuts?

The positive thing is I always allow MY judgement of my ability and of my performance to help me focus and improve. Yeah, I guess some of us ARE just a tad insecure!

CB

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 11:05 PM

Nope - a couple of times a week is enough. (At least that's what my wife says)

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 01:28 AM

Looking back, I see that a huge part of my motivation for writing songs and performing them was to gain recognition, respect, and admiration from other people...and to fulfill a personal role in life that seemed more glorious and meaningful to me than any other role I could imagine! Yes, being a great songwriter and folk performer struck me as simply the most marvelous thing a human being like me could possibly do...I revelled in it.

I don't see it that way anymore, and I don't feel much desire to perform at all these days. My main efforts now are in spiritual study, meditation, and concentration on that sort of thing...the inner life rather than the outer one. Of course, the inner life affects the outer one in any number of ways, but it's working the other way around at the problem.

Folk music is something that dominated my life for so long that it's still like an old friend to me, but it's not number one anymore.

As for gaining other people's respect, love, admiration, whatever...my feelings on that have changed too. I basically like people in general a lot more now than I used to. I don't worry much about looking for their love ...I'm just not that concerned about it. If it's there, great. If it isn't...so what? Why worry about it?

In the final analysis, other people's opinion of you simply doesn't matter. It's like worrying about whether the birds on your clothesline like you or not.

On the other hand, your opinion of yourself is a pretty crucial matter. My opinion of myself doesn't seem to hang on whether or not I am performing music any longer. It sure used to!

Most of my old friends are rather perturbed about it, because they got used to the old me, and they can't figure out where he has gone. One guy I used to see at musical events all the time met me on the street and said, "My God, where have you been...I thought you'd died or something!"

- LH

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 09:12 AM

Good post, Little Hawk. I understand the pressure to prove yourself every day. In a job (and folk music is a job for many Mudcatters... or at least has been at some point in their life,) there is an attitude of "What did you do for me, today?" But trying to prove yourself to others is like pursuing happiness. Us Amuricans are supposed to have the right to pursue happiness. Think about it. If you're pursuing something, it's high-tailing it away from you as fast as it's stumpy legs can go. Same with proving yourself. How many times have we been disappointed, or even crushed that someone we tried to be a good friend to, and win their approvaly for years suddenly rejects us? When you first start to perform, you feel the competition with other musicians. No matter how friendly the folk community is, there is an unspoken "measuring" that goes on when you first try to establish your own identity and following. As you gain confidence in yourself, you can start to see other people as true friends... those you're fortunate enough to find. And the measuring diminishes. I used to kid around saying that if I worked real hard that someday I could "make it" as a folksinger and get those high-paying jobs, where you get a couple of hundred dollars to drive five hundred miles and play for sixty people. I think that it's natural that most of us older Catters have gone through the cycle from playing for our own ego and need to be recognized and admired (while we protest, "Aw, Shucks,") to playing for the pleasure of it. If there is a glass ceiling in folk music, it's just a couple of inches above our heads. I give thanks for my folk singing years, and all the years that I ran a concert series and folk festival. Now, playing folk music and going to festivals is more like going to a family reunion. It may not drive your life or mine, but it sure is fine to still be a part of the family.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 05:52 PM

For what it's worth, the following is from the liner notes to the Mason williams album entitled "Hand Made". It was the note about his song "All The Time"

"This song was on my first album, but i sing better now, so I re-did it.The reason I sing better is that I.ve been working on me instead of my music. I've realized that it's me that sings, so lately I've been trying to do things for people -- help out a little so my me will get better.You can work on your singing and playing a lot, but after a while you have to work on where the music comes from to get better music. It's a cheap trick, but it works."

This also applies in the "what makes a good singer?" thread.

Subject: RE: Does one have to prove oneself daily?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 08:44 PM

Steve, thanks. That is a terrific statement and I can't imagine a better take on improvement!

CB