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eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
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Subject: eena meena mackeracka From: greg stephens Date: 01 May 02 - 07:34 AM Perhaps there's been a thread on this, but I couldnt find one. Is this known throughout Britain? Ireland? America? Anybody recall a different version? Mine goes( Devon c1952 at a guess) Eena meena mackeracka/Rare ri dominacka/chikkapoppa lollipoppa/ rom pom poosh. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: masato sakurai Date: 01 May 02 - 08:43 AM There's a good collection: Roger D. Abrahams and Lois Rankin, eds., Counting-Out Rhymes: A Dictionary (University of Texas Press, 1980). I'll quote the entry (no. 120).
Eena meena macker racker
Opie (1969) [Children's Games in Street and Playground], 40-41, 53 [Scotland, England, Wales, Australia, New Zealand, since 1920's]. Eighteen variants, beginning "Eeny, meeny," "Eeni, meeni," "Iney, memey," "Ina, mina," "Eany, meany," "Ena, mena," "Eanie, meenie," "Eani meani," "Eny, meeny," and "Eena, mena." Discussed in relation to other gibberish rhymes. The rhyme is sometimes introduced with "I went to a Chinese laundry / To buy a loaf of bread; / They wrapped it in a tablecloth / And this is what they said." Three embryo forms of the rhyme are given: "Ena dena, dahsa, doma" (1909); "Eener, deener, abber, dasher" (1910); and "Haberdasher, isher asher" (1916) (see 123). ~Masato
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: greg stephens Date: 01 May 02 - 08:50 AM wow, thanks Masato. Now, any personal memories? Where did YOU learn it? And how did it go? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: wysiwyg Date: 01 May 02 - 11:32 AM Now I know what to do with the silly words the Three Stooges would come up with-- put them in a counting song. Annacannapannasan Onnaconnapooner Anyone else have any of these? Are they posted anywhere online? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: wysiwyg Date: 01 May 02 - 11:37 AM OK, I know I am not the only one thinking of this one from the US.... here is how I learned it:
Eenie meenie miney moe, So that's not the original version. People say "Hey! Don't call ME a racist! I don;t have any of THAT stuff in ME!" Yet the culture transmits racist messages even before we are old enough to know there is such a thing as "difference" between human beings (but not really) (but there is) (but we have more in common than we have different) (ad infinitum) The version I heard later in life was not about a tiger; it used what is now known universally to be an ugly racial epithet, "nigger." ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: greg stephens Date: 01 May 02 - 12:24 PM We used eenie meenie minie mo (with "that word") as a counting out rhyme...the eena meena mackeracka as just a chant, a sort of secret rhyme you learnt and treasured. We never used itfor counting, though it sounds as if that's what it's for, with the emphasised POOSH at the end. More contributions pleas, I want to know ifit ever crossed the atlantic. Also, 'eenie meenie minie mo' sounds as if its linguistic origin must long predate the use of the word "nigger" in English.I wonder how it went originally? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Sorcha Date: 01 May 02 - 12:34 PM Could it have been the "menemenetarkel......"whatever that the finger wrote on the wall? Book of Samuel?? Somewhere in the Bible....... |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: IanC Date: 01 May 02 - 12:39 PM No, Sorcha, not the Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin. BTW we used it as a counting rhyme just the same as eeny meeny miny mo and the taters game. There are a few other threads about counting rhymes on the mudcat, with variants of this one in. I'm too lazy now to look for them. Cheers! Ian |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: CapriUni Date: 01 May 02 - 12:59 PM More contributions please, I want to know if it ever crossed the atlantic Greg -- It did, sort of... the "Catch a Tiger/N______ (also, as I understand it, during WWII, it was "Catch old Mo Jo by the toe") that Susan posted above, is the version I learned here in America. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: GUEST,Nerd Date: 01 May 02 - 03:23 PM But, WYSIWYG, if you learned it as "Tiger" and never knew it had anything to do with the n-word, then your culture was not transmitting a racist message anymore. You weren't to know that another version of the same rhyme once used to be racist. The version you knew was perhaps insensitive to an endangered species, but not racist. I grew up in upper Manhattan, where using the n-word would get you seriously f*cked up if not killed, but everyone knew the tiger rhyme, and none of us kids knew it had anything racist in it. When an older black man told us the original, we didn't believe it. Until he showed it to us in a book. Personally, I think "Tiger" is an improvement precisely because it isn't racist anymore (and because if you catch a tiger by the toe you will get what you deserve!) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Wyrd Sister Date: 01 May 02 - 03:49 PM Eeny meeny miny mo Sit the baby on the poh When it's done wipe it's bum Eeny meeny miny mo Eenameena macaraca Airidackeraca Chickeraca boomeracka om pom push Northern England, industrial, 1950's |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: GUEST,Phil A Date: 01 May 02 - 03:57 PM Also from North East England (50s 60s): Eenie meeny mackeracka Dare-dum dominacker Ting-a-ling-a-lollipop Bing bang boosh. Incidentally, 'eenie meeny myny mo' is one to four in one of the Celtic tongues ... 'hickory dickory dock' is eight nine ten. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: wysiwyg Date: 01 May 02 - 04:00 PM Just because I didn't hear it with the n-word in the 50's, in my own home, doesn't mean it wasn't being sung next door that way. When I found out about it later, it turned out that all my friends had heard it the other way. So there ya go. I was "lucky," I got to miss ONE of many cultural messages. The point was, we all got them, one way or another. Even if we did not realize that's what they were at the time, or what they meant. They all glom up together in our unconscious. So I don't sing this one to babies now. The fun of it went out of it, for me, retroactively. YMMV. Hey, I think I'll change my name to YMMV. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Herga Kitty Date: 01 May 02 - 05:00 PM I'm with IanC on this one - we used eeny meeny and "one potato, two potatoes, three potatoes, four" in the late 50s as a way of choosing "it". Kitty |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Bert Date: 01 May 02 - 08:33 PM I The East End of London it used as a dip, and went.. Immenacka ricker racka Rare are dominacka Chicka bocka Bocka chicka Om Pom Push. And the person whom push landed on was unceremoniously pushed out of the ring. OK. Spuds in! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Nerd Date: 02 May 02 - 02:44 AM WYSIWYG-- I see what you mean, but I don't think I agree. I don't think that two versions of the "same" rhyme or song constitute a psychological gestalt so that all meanings of either are meanings of both. I feel that the one with the tiger refers to a large Eurasian cat, especially if the speaker and hearer are unaware of other versions that refer to a person of African descent. Incidentally, folklorists (of which I am one) have made the same argument you put forth, calling it "the symbolic equivalence of allomotifs." It's very much a respected position on these matters and I'm not belittling it. I just don't happen to agree in this case. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Mark Cohen Date: 02 May 02 - 02:52 AM Somewhere I recall reading that words sounding like "Eeny meeny miny mo" were the actual counting numbers one through four in some language. And that the other rhyme was based on the numbers up to ten. I have a vague and probably incorrect memory that it was an ancient Scottish dialect. Anybody got any reliable information along this line? Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Mark Cohen Date: 02 May 02 - 02:58 AM Oops, missed Phil A's post. But I'd still be interested in learning more details. Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: GUEST,Firecat at college Date: 02 May 02 - 07:07 AM I used to use that rhyme when I was at junior school!! I knew it as:- Eeny meeny macka racka Dare dare dominacka Chikka bokka lollipoppa Om pom push The black cat says it must be you! The "black cat" was whoever was doing the rhyme and they shoved the unfortunate loser over. I always made sure I WASN'T the unlucky one! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Nerd Date: 02 May 02 - 09:15 AM Kenny Goldstein once wrote an article called "Strategy in counting-out" in which he showed that kids carefully picked and/or altered these rhymes to get the desired effect, making sure the people they wanted to stay in stayed in. So Firecat's experience seems to have been typical! BTW, another good book to refer to is Roger Abrahams's "Counting-Out Rhymes: A Dictionary." |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: wysiwyg Date: 02 May 02 - 09:30 AM Nerd, I was talking about how cultural messages in general tend to work, and how I feel about this rhyme now, not saying how others ought to feel.... there's nothing there really to disagree with. My feelings are just my feelings, and yours are yours. (As I said, "YMMV.") That's part of the trickiness of dealing with internalized (and often unconscious) racism.... it is always a completely individual thing, and broad approaches tend to not address that. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: GUEST,Nerd Date: 02 May 02 - 11:03 AM Sorry, Susan. I don't know what YMMV means, which is probably why I didn't get your gist first time! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: GUEST,Nerd Date: 02 May 02 - 11:59 AM By the way, the derivation from Celtic numbers is very speculative. No numbers in any Celtic language sound like eeny meeny miny mo, for example, though the number one sounds a bit like eeny, as it does in Spanish (Uno) and many other indo-European languages. There was a time when proving a "Celtic" heritage for any piece of folklore was fashionable, because (in England at least) it suggested that the the folklore in question was very old--a survival of before the Saxon conquest of Britain. Since the first folklorists were antiquarians, they were always claiming everything they recorded was an ancient fertility rite of Celtic or pre-Celtic times. People have even claimed that "eeny meeny miny moe" became a counting out rhyme when it was used by druids to select among prisoners for one to be sacrificed! That said, there are various weird-sounding counting systems in England, for use both in counting-out among children, and counting sheep among shepherds. Some of them do have clear Celtic parallels, while for others scholars jump through hoops to try to fit them into a Celtic mold. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: wysiwyg Date: 02 May 02 - 12:52 PM Nerd, it's "Your mileage may vary," or in other words, that's how it is for me, and it may be different for you. I was kidding about the name change, tho YMMV would be pronounced Ymm-vee, and that IS tempting! *G* ~Susan
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: weepiper Date: 02 May 02 - 02:00 PM The counting out/choosing 'it' rhyme we used most often at primary school (East Lothian, early eighties) was Ittle ottle, black bottle, ittle ottle out If you want a piece and jam, you must walk on out. We had 'Eeny meeny miney mo' with tigger not tiger (and squeals not hollers), again I had no idea it used to be nigger until I was much older. I do remember using the rhyme that Greg first asked about but I can't remember the first bit, just the 'icker acker dominacker rum pum push' bit. We also had 'Eenty teenty tether methera...' which went up to ten but I forget the rest... |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Wyrd Sister Date: 02 May 02 - 03:03 PM I think yan, tan, tethera is 1-2-3 in Lakeland. There used to a cafe in Keswick with that name. And I don't believe I used an incorrect apostrophe in my last post - apologies to myself as representing those heartily annoyed by such things. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: CapriUni Date: 02 May 02 - 03:19 PM Re: the Druid counting out for sacrifice... I think Nerd is right -- that it's part of the "Make everything Celtic" phenomenon. Though there is a longish entry on counting out rhymes in the Funk and Wagnall's Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend and there is a suggestion that the rhyme:
O-U-T spells I think T, He, & Sea make good rhymes... after all, drawing straws (or marked stones) is not the same as counting out...
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: GUEST,Nerd Date: 02 May 02 - 03:50 PM Yes, Yan tan Tethera is one of the weird-sounding counting systems I was referring to, and does occur in Lakeland. It is used both for sheep and for counting out. WYSIWYG: is this pronounced wizzy-wig? sounds like Scrooge's old boss! :-) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: wysiwyg Date: 02 May 02 - 04:38 PM Some folks say it that way. It just means "What You See Is What You Get"-- old computer term. I guess Wizziwig would be Fezziwig's cousin! I'm liking that Yum-vee more and more though. But it already got changed once, so whaddaya gonna do? *G* ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: Lynn Date: 02 May 02 - 11:03 PM In Lois Choksy's book, "The Kodaly Method", I found a similar 'counting out' rhyme: Icka backa soda cracka Icka backa boo Icka backa soda cracka Out goes you I also learned "eeny meany" with 'tiger'. My neighbor sang it with the n-word. One of many things we couldn't agree on as kids! Lynn |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: IanC Date: 03 May 02 - 04:18 AM I learned eeny meeny with "nigger" but, since that's not a word we used for black people round my way, I didn't know what it meant for long enough.
:-) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka From: CapriUni Date: 03 May 02 - 12:10 PM Lynn (or anyone), briefly, what is the Kolady method? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:08 PM Isn't Kodaly (pron. Ko-dah-ee?) one of the the systems that, among other things, teaches pitch by hand signals of the teacher? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:16 PM The ORIGINAL ARTICLE quoted below includes illustrations I could not pull into Mudcat, and additional information. ~S~ The Kodály Method by: MusicStaff.com Teacher Lounge Editor, Deborah Jeter Have you been looking for a method to focus on your student's singing voice? If the answer to the question above is yes, then the Kodály Method is for you. Zoltan Kodaly developed a way of educating young children through the singing of the native mother tongue folk songs. Doesn't sound too different with just that being said, but the differences lie within the internal workings. The Kodaly Method uses a sequence for teaching music, that is child developmental. More on that later. Right now... allow me to introduce you to Zoltan Kodaly. Kodály, Zoltán (born on December 16, 1882, in Kecskemét, Hungary and died, March 6, 1967, in Budapest), was a prominent composer and authority on Hungarian folk music. He was also important as an educator, not only of composers but also of teachers and, through his students, contributed heavily to the spread of musical education in Hungary. He was a chorister in his youth at Nagyszombat (now Trnava), Czech., where he wrote his first compositions. In 1902, he studied composition in Budapest. He toured his country in his first quest for folk-song sources in the year before his graduation from Budapest University with a thesis (1906) on the structure of Hungarian folk song. After studying for a short time in Paris with the composer-organist Charles Widor, he became teacher of theory and composition at the Budapest Academy of Music (1907-41). (Reference: "Kodály, Zoltán" Britannica Online, Copyright © 1994-1998 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.) What is the Kodály Method? First off, let me say that in order to give a complete overview of the Kodály Method would take more than just this article to accomplish. I hope to give you enough information on the advantages of using the Kodály Method for teaching music, so that you will continue your learning through the resource books that I listed at the bottom of this article. Rhythm symbols and syllables are utilized. Hand signals are used to show tonal relationships. Hand signs are used in order for the singer to "visualize" what the note or tone is doing. Is it going up? Is it going down? You see, when we play instruments, it is quite evident what pitches we are playing because we can see what our fingers are doing. We have this advantage because the instrument is outside of out body. However, with the singer, the instrument is inside. So, the use of hand signs, as shown below, can be very advantageous, especially to the "beginner". NOTE: These hand signs were not invented by Kodály, but rather incorporated by him because of the validity of their use. The moveable "do" is practiced. The moveable "do" system is utilized through the use of the "do" clef. The "do" clef is simply a sign that is placed whereever the tonic of each scale is. In other words, the beginning student need not be concerned that "g" is the starting pitch in G Major, until they are "ready" to have that information. It keeps things simpler for the beginner. G in G Major would simply be called "do". Using a fixed "do" system is always called middle C, "do". The musical material emphasized is the mother-tongue folksong. The mother tongue songs are the songs that are concentrated first. Mother tongue meaning, the child's native music or the music (folk songs) of his or her country. The Kodály Method breaks down the learning of music into a series of concepts (or components); Then applies a sequential learning process to each one. This sequential learning process follows the natural developmental pattern used in learning a language, which is, aural, written, and then read. Aural - oral - kinesthetic Written - pictoral - abstract Read - recognized The First Concept: Steady beat is the first concept taught in level one. Notice that I say "level" and not grade. Kodaly is a concept that is non-graded. This makes the teaching of the most fundamental concepts applicable even to "beginners" of music education in highschool and beyond. The sequence of the concepts stay the same, but the material used to teach these concepts are age appropriate and left up to the discretion of the teacher. A great deal of emphasis is placed on using the penta-tonic scale in the beginning. One of the great advantages of using the pentatonic scale is that the notes represent all of the intervals that are needed in singing in an extended range as the voice develops but will not put unnecessary strain on the inexperienced singer. Another wonderful advantage of singing pentatonic songs are because instruments are easily incorporated for improvisational purposes. Any tone played in a pentatonic scale will blend (or sound "right") with the singer's pentatonic song. Solfege or "Curwen" handsigns are used as a way to visualize the pitches being sung. The Kodaly Method was not invented by Kodaly, but is a system of music education which was evolved in the Hungarian schools under his inspiration and guidance. The Musical Objectives of Kodaly musical training may be listed as to develop the ability of all children to: Sing, play, and move from memory, a large number of traditional folksongs of the mother tongue. Perform, listen to, and analyze the great art music of the world. Achieve mastery of musical skills, such as musical reading and writing, singing and part-singing. Improvise and compose, using their known musical vocabulary at each developmental level. I have used the Kodaly Concept/Method/Philosophy ever since I was a student teacher. My cooperating teacher was a Kodaly Master so I had a wonderful start. Over the last twenty years, I have taught using Kodaly and Orff with a mixture of Dalcroze. In general, my students exhibit a tremendous increase in musicality when I use Kodaly's sequenced applications. I hope you will take the time to investigate its possibilities with your own students. You may find students understanding and mastering musical concepts more quickly and singing more beautifully than you ever imagined. Quote: If there is something to be gained and very little to lose, then by all means, TRY! - W. Clement Stone |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Mark Cohen Date: 21 Aug 04 - 09:39 PM Are those the hand signals that were used in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" when the huge crowd in India(?) was singing the five pitches that had been broadcast by the outworlders? The numbers 1,2,3,4 that corresponded to eeny, meeny, miny, mo may have been in a pre-Celtic British language. Or not. I remember a call-and-response song/game called "The Beestay" that I learned in the early 60's in Philadelphia. Each line is said/sung by person A and then repeated by person B. When person B says the "Oo" at the end of the last phrase, person A repeats "Oo" and their roles are then reversed. I have no idea what a Beestay is. Oo (Oo) Oo ah (Oo ah) The Beestay (The Beestay) [sung] Oh, no, no, no, not the Beestay (Oh, no, no, no, not the Beestay) Eeny-meeny-dissaleeny-oo-ah-ah-maleeny-otcha-kotcha-kumarotcha-akawa-oo (Eeny-meeny-dissaleeny-oo-ah-ah-maleeny-otcha-kotcha-kumarotcha-akawa-oo) Aloha, Mark (If I got any of it wrong, it's my sister's fault!) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Cheryll UK Date: 01 Jul 06 - 03:39 PM We had a second verse to enna meena etc Enni Meeni macka racka Rare ri dominacka Chicka poppa lollipoppa rum pum push Rare ri reeta chickapocka Lita o - u - t spells OUT with a jolly good clout!! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Mo the caller Date: 01 Jul 06 - 04:18 PM I'm with Wysiwyg on this one. I learnt it in the 40s with the N word, and thought nothing of it at the time. My daughter learnt it as tigger (not tiger), and didn't know it had ever been different. I couldn't teach it the old way, but tigger seems too forced, tiger has a completely different rythmn, so I'd leave it alone. But I'm with Nerd as well, if it is passed on by people who have never know it any other way, then thats fine. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 01 Jul 06 - 05:25 PM Lynn, thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou – you've saved my one remaining brain cell from blowing itself out trying to remember the rest of that icka-backa-soda-cracker rhyme. We used it as a jump-rope chant (central California, 50's) and you had to jump out of the rope while it kept turning, on the same rhythmic beat that the next kid in line jumped in. I first picked up eeny-meeny from the bigger kids in my street when I was four. They used the N word, and I didn't know what it meant. When my mother heard me reciting it she told me that wasn't a nice word to use and that I should sing "tiger" instead. I subsequently heard the chant used both ways, so there were two versions floating around. In the 60s we had a variant of that "beestay" rhyme-&-response (I never knew what a Beestay was either) which I first heard at a high school football rally and everyone thought was way cool. Ours started with flea (flea) fly (fly) flea fly flew (ditto) coomalata coomalata coomalata beestay no no no no not the beestay and ended in a sort of scat-rhythm: eee-biddlety-oaten-doaten-wahbat-skee-watten-tatten-SHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!! Kitty, we also had the same "one-potato-two-potato-three-potato-FOUR; five-potato-six-potato-seven-potato-MORE" and whoever was More was out, or It, or whatever. Interesting how such similar/identical things pop up on both sides of the Atlantic. Do kids these days still sing these rhymes? Or is it all computers & video games now? Can any playground supervisors or parents of young kids shed any light? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Frug Date: 01 Jul 06 - 06:02 PM I remember this........... You're a yeller lookin' teller lookin' tin squared copycutter juicy eyed herrin' picker half-starved cat. Frank |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Fiona Date: 02 Jul 06 - 05:37 AM We had (Glasgow late fifties-early sixties) eenie-meenie-miney-mo catch a N----- by the toe If he cries let him go eenie-meenie-miney-mo my mother said that N----- was a bad wrd and that we should use 'darky' kind of hard to believe now. Kids nowadays use 'spider' which works well with the rhyme. The 'I went to a Chinese restaurant' one was a pat a cake clapping type song, I never heard it used for picking who was 'it'. We had the 'one potato, two potato' song as well, counted out with closed fists held in front being bumped as opposed to the pointing finger. fx |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:33 AM Our "clapping song" (don't think there was an "It" either - I seem to remember this as a jumprope rhyme) went: I woke up Sunday morning And looked upon the wall The beetles and the bedbugs Were having a game of ball The score was six to nothing The beetles were ahead A bedbug hit a home run And knocked me out of bed I had to stop myself spelling it "beatles"... |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 02 Jul 06 - 10:06 AM Bonnie Shaljean, You asked "Do kids these days still sing these rhymes? Or is it all computers & video games now?" While I'm neither a playground supervisor or [any longer] a parent of young kids, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night {sorry, that's an American joke which others may not get]... For a number of years I have been collecting children's rhymes and I can state without reservation that children still do counting out rhymes, handclapping rhymes and other types of rhymes. Besides a number of Mudcat threads, there are quite a few othre websites where people can post examples of rhymes. On some of these websites more than others, it appears that children and youth-as well as adults-post ecamples of rhymes. Imo, the Internet is helping to perserve examples of rhymes, and also is make individuals aware that there are versions of specific rhymes other than the one that a they know. In that regard, I believe that the Internet may influence changes in rhymes-as children may drop their version in favor of vrevise their version or add trhymeis helping to infulence spread er another one or add to their version of their rhyme. That's the folk process in action. Internet threads such as this also provide an opportunity for folks to consider the origin, source materials, and meanings of specif children's rhymes-and the way that their performance activities may have changed over time or in different geographical areas, and/or among different populations. WIth regard to the "beestay" example that you cited, I wonder if this rhyme has a Spanish language source and are the changes in some if its words as result of folk etymology? For instance, was "beestay" originally "como la vista"? ??? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 02 Jul 06 - 12:23 PM Great post, Azizi - thanks! I'm glad to be reassured that these old rhymes are far from dying out. Interesting point about "beestay"'s origins - I spelled it that way because Mark did so above, but I can also remember hearing it sung as "veestay". This was in California where there was/is a lot of Spanish spoken (I was saying Ay Caramba DECADES before Bart Simpson did) so you could well have a point. If you've got any links to some of the websites you mention, I for one would be quite interested in having a look. Thanks again :-) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,thurg Date: 02 Jul 06 - 12:24 PM "my mother said that N----- was a bad wrd and that we should use 'darky' kind of hard to believe now." Hard to believe, yes - but in another thread recently, an Englishman mentioned his father using "darky" as a neutral or polite term. I don't know how widespread this (mis)understanding was, but I can say that my (Canadian) grandmother, born around 1890, used that term to the end of her days, and she lived to the age of 103 - and would be quite indignant when my mother would chide her about it. (About using the term "darky" that is, not about living to 103). As far as she was concerned, there was nothing disrespectful in her use of the term; she was satisfied that she was free of racial prejudice, and was not one to speak without thinking - but also not one to be bullied in matters of diction or anything else. I am certain that there was nothing questionable about her attitudes (or lack of attitudes) regarding race, and that if the right person had talked to her about her use of the term "darky", she would have accepted that it could be insulting nowadays, and would have stopped using it. Not that it crept into the conversation much anyway. I wonder if the great popularity of Stephen Foster songs spread the term "darky" around the English-speaking world or if it had an international life of its own? (Sorry for the thread drift). |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Andy Jackson Date: 02 Jul 06 - 12:43 PM We had a version as kids which I remember went: ennie meanie makaraka rare oh domino halapackaa doodiaka him pim flash At the time we put it down to our Mum being Irish! And as for that mystical N word.... my elder brother along with many others I'm sure, had a dog (a very dark shade of grey)called Nigger (aren't I brave I typed the whole word. Come on get a grip here, life changes, things and words which are offensive now had no significance years ago and vice versa. Vive la change but never lose respect for your fellow man!!!!! Andy |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Fiona Date: 02 Jul 06 - 01:15 PM Hi Andy, I wasn't trying to be coy but since it was clear what I meant (it had been used in the thread) and some folks find it VERY offensive it didn't seem necessary. I even thought twice about 'darky', but d**** wouldn't have made much sense would it? Thinking of kids playing tag where you become 'it' when caught, has reminded me that I've heard primary school kids calling the tagged one 'Taliban', so they all shout 'Taliban' and run away. A few years ago, at the time those iceberg AIDS adverts were running on TV, being tagged became 'you've got AIDS'. Kids can be so horrible (bless their little cotton socks) fx |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:45 PM They seem to have moved from imaginary bogeyman-figures - like being tagged meant you were The Cootie (remember Cooties?) - to ones that are all too real. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,thurg Date: 03 Jul 06 - 03:41 AM Yeah, but cooties are little bugs ... |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:19 AM Little bugs are a non-threatening part of everyday life. There's no horror element to them. The point I was making was that in the old days the "It" that the other kids ran away or hid from was a fairly anodyne, non-specific character that was never going to kill anyone. Now "It" seems to have mutated and crossed the line into the realistic world. Little bugs I can live with. Those other things mentioned above scare the daylights out of me. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,thurg Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:55 AM I'm more scared of little bugs that think they can live with me. Where I grew up, it was not someone was "the Cootie"; it was so-and-so HAD the cootieS. Seems to me that this originated in that particularly nasty brand of schoolyard bullying in which the whole group turns on some poor kid and ridicules him/her because of perceived shortcomings in his/her family background. By my day, I don't think any kids (in my school) actually knew what cooties were; "So-and-so has the cooties!" had become a pretty innocuous taunt. I don't have any examples off the top of my non-infested head, but I think you could find examples of real-live bogey-men referenced in children's games from the past. Anyone know of any? It used to be accepted wisdom that Ring Around the Rosy was about the plague, but apparently that notion has been debunked ... |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:05 AM Good point, Thurg. I didn't grow up in Britain but I'm SURE there are some Guy Fawkes schoolyard chants. And was there a Dick Turpin one, or is that a fanciful notion? PS: Nobody in my school really knew what cooties were either. Did you have that "Cootie" game when you were a little kid, where you had to assemble a giant plastic Cootie bit by bit, and the first one to finish it won? Guess THAT'S what they look like... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 03 Jul 06 - 12:56 PM The only other thought to add is: Can anyone identify rhymes containing real-life figures WHO WERE STILL AT LARGE, AND A THREAT at the time they entered play-folklore? Once someone is safely dead it modifies their character in a sense, because they can no longer actually harm you; whereas Aids and terrorists are still around and functioning now. (I wonder how much impact this has on today's kids, or if they truly realise the implications?) I grew up during the red scare when the media never seemed to stop talking about The Impending Bomb, yet I don't remember Russians or The Commies taking over the bad-guy role in our playground rhymes & games. It was still abstractions like cooties and bogeymen, or fictional monsters like Frankenstein. I know it's much harder to determine the timeline factor because it requires knowledge of dates and history. Guy Fawkes presumably did not become familiar to the public until after he was captured; but were there any living, still-dangerous villains who played the fear-figure in kids' popular culture? Any outlaws of the old west or robbers on the King's highway? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,richd Date: 03 Jul 06 - 01:56 PM Here's one from Cyfathfa Juniors and Brecon Road Infants School in Merthyr Thdfil. Eeni meanii mackaraka Day Die dominaker Cheeky Lacker Lolly Popper Out goes one, Out goes Two, Out goes another one and out Goes you! And here's dum-dum-daro, which is sung, not said and is often a clapping game. Dum Dum Dare-o see see al la lero, Munney munney Aker Ooka-ba ooka-ba ookaba SPLIT! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Abuwood Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:29 AM Mum's rhyme 1920's Yorkshire was Rah Rah chicker rah Chicker rah rhoney pony ping pang piney ala kala witchwood ching chang choo We used one potato and eeny meeny, with the N word (not knowing what it meant). My kids did lots of clapping rhymes A sailor went to sea sea sea to see what he could see see see but all thet he could see see see was the bottom of the deep blue sea sea sea.... There are lots of other verses to this, each having different actions You've got me thinking now.... |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:33 AM I apologize for the typos in my previous post to this thread. Those typos were the result of a 'rush to post' when I was supposed to be off to a non-cyperspace function. I shoulda waited till I had more time to post to this thread...like now. Bonnie, and others, one of my favorite websites which contains examples of contemporary children's rhymes from children is http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php Here are four examples of children's rhymes from that blog: "I have a few songs I always did with my friends. One was "The Space Goes", the other was "Down by the banks". "The Space Goes" sounds something like this: The Space goes bobo, skee waten taten ah ah, ah ah boom boom boom mini mini waten, bobo skee waten, bobo, skee waten freeze! ::at freeze the players would freeze and whoever moved first lost::" -posted by contortme at September 16, 2003 -snip- "What about the song that goes like this.. Flea.. Flea fly.. Flea Fly Flow. Ama lama kuma lama kuma la vista, Oh oh oh oh not the vista vista, issilini dissilini Oo aa aa malini, akaraka, cukara ich bam boom, ip diddly ope en bope why not shout and bout........ssssssss.... Bang! Anybody else know this?..." -posted by Danny at October 1, 2003 -snip- "I remember doing some kind of hand game where you say Bo Bo Ce ot and tot and nana I am a Boom Boom Itty bitty out and tot bobo ce ot and tot Bobo ce ot and tot...BOOM I have no idea what it means however LOL." -posted by Tabitha at February 12, 2005 -snip- [and here's an example that I think is from another 'family' of children's rhymes]: I know one... its goes TIC-TAC-TOE GIVE ME AN X GIVE ME AN O GIVE ME A THREE IN A ROW ROCK PAPER SCISSORS SHOOT ( at this part u play rock paper scissors shoot) -posted by Kim at May 7, 2006 **** Btw, this website also contains examples of contemporary children's rhymes from children, youth, and adults: http://www.cocojams.com/ ;o)) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Mo the caller Date: 04 Jul 06 - 06:04 AM Azizi, you said 'For instance, was "beestay" originally "como la vista"?' What does that mean, please. As for Cooties or Nits, well they may seem a non-threatening part of everyday life now but they were a matter of deep shame and dread in my youth (among parents as well as children). Do you remember "Nitty Norah" or as the teachers called her the "Head Nurse". |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:44 AM Hello, Mo! What do ya know? [I couldn't resist that. And I'm not even sure if your name is pronounced as though it rhymes with know or row or go or foe-though I doubt that we would ever be that last one]. You asked about the meaning of "como la vista?. I had 5 years of Spanish in another life [one class per year in my 4 years of high school & 1 class in my first year of college]. Unfortunately, I have not had occassion to speak Spanish since than nor do I read it. But in spite of all of that, certain words have stuck with me. Like "Hola! [hello] and "amigo/a" [friend]. I recognize the words 'com' and 'la' and 'vista' as Spanish words, but can't say that I remember the phrase 'como la vista' from Spanish language classes. Nor did I find that phrase on any Spanish/English site {though I admit I only looked at a few Spanish/English translation sites}. But-given the individual meaning of these words*, my guess is that the "Como la vista" phrase in that children's rhyme anyway means something like the African American colloquialism "What's happenin?" And I think that the answer in the children's rhyme "no [no no no no] la vista" means "nothin's happenin". What's happenin'" has the same or similar meaning as "How's things" [What do you see?=What's goin on?] * the Spanish/English website http://www.freedict.com/onldict/spa.html has these meanings for "como" and vista" ["la" means 'the' for feminine words]: como- as, how, like, such as vista- appearance, aspect **** Hopefully, some Mudcat member or guest who speaks [everyday] Spanish or reads [everyday] Spanish will confirm or correct my [uneducated] guess about this phrase. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 04 Jul 06 - 04:15 PM I don't speak Spanish either, but I remember hearing it at school when I was a kid. Doesn't it mean "How are you?" ? I also remember another phrase, also from school, which was "Hasta la vista". (And Arnold S used it in - what was it? - Terminator? "Hasta la vista, baby") so I always assumed it was some form of Goodbye. If I've got it wrong, will any Spanish-speakers please jump in and correct me! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 04 Jul 06 - 05:41 PM How are you is one of the phrase I remember from my high school Spanish. It's "Como estas?" {or "Como esta?"}. And I believe that you're correct that "Hasta la vista" is a colloquial expression that means "Goodbye {actually, it really means something like "until I see you again". I wonder when this "como la vista" [or something like it} rhyme became popular and whether its source was not just a colloquial Spanish expression but a recorded Spanish song. A number of verses in contemporary children's rhymes have their origins in titles, refrains and/or lyrics of R&B songs. Here's two of them: We Will Rock You we will we will rock you (small pause) we will we will rock you mud on you face a big disgrace kicking your can all over the place singing we will we will rock you down shake you up like a volcano will erupt buckle your seatbelt step on the gas were gonna kick you in your ask me once ask me twice everybody we will we will rock you (small pause) we will we will rock you {while singing stomp one foot then the other then clap throughout the whole song} -hi; 6/29/06 source: http://www.cocojams.com/taunting_rhymes.htm **** 1, 2, 3 Hit It! {Brickwall Waterfall} 1, 2, 3, HIT IT! that's the way uh huh uh huh i like it uh huh uh huh that's the way uh huh uh huh i like it uh huh uh huh peace. punch captain crunch. brick wall. waterfall. girl you think you know it all? you don't! i do! so poof with the attitude. loser loser with a twist elbow elbow wrist wrist. wipe a tear. blow a kiss. kiss this. hunnie u aint got none of this. -reposted on 6/21/2005 from http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php/ posted by k to the c on June 20, 2006 [with permission of that blog's members] |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bizibod Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:12 AM Eeny, meeny ,mackeracka rare-ride,dominicker-chicker-packer rom-pom-push,and O- U- T spells OUT!!! Essamany sallamany oowalla wallamany , Essamany sallamany oowalla wah, Bo biddly dicken docken, Bo-bo be dicken docken sshhhhh! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,montegue blister Date: 11 Jul 06 - 09:18 AM A fascinating thread indeed. I write a blog detailing archaic / unusual childrens games and party games. I do cover counting out rhymes occasionally. I thought I knew most of them - but i've learnt a lot of new ones in this thread. If you want to read my blog... it is here http://strange-games.blogspot.com/ My favourite , Victorian counting out rhyme is here http://strange-games.blogspot.com/2006/05/counting-out-rhymes-no3.html chin chin, Montegue Blister |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:58 PM GUEST,montegue blister. Thanks for posting the link to your website. I found it to be quite interesting, though I personally didn't like the slave game. But different strokes for different strokes. If you haven't done so, check out the schoolyard games thread of the Octoblog website for the posted examples of children's games. The URL is: http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php Btw, I hope you consider joining Mudcat! Membership is free and easy.. Best wishes! Azizi |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,curious Date: 14 Jul 06 - 01:39 AM Does anyone know of a reliable source that could help me find the original version of the "eeny meeny" rhyme? A mini-scandal erupted near my hometown (accusing a company of racism for putting "eenie meenie minie moe" on a billboard) and I'm skeptical that the 'n-word' was a part of the rhyme's first occurance (as the accuser claimed). Thanks for any suggestions and/or help! The Midwestern US |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Amy Date: 14 Jul 06 - 05:18 AM "(as the accuser claimed)" I am bewildered as to what is meant by the above remark Guest:Curious. Would you mind making yourself clearer on this point? Thank you in advance for a response. Amy |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,curious Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:09 PM Amy, here's a link to the newspaper article that spawned my question: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15016407.htm It certainly caused a stir. Despite disagreeing (not publicly) with the columnist, the company took down the billboard in question immediately after the article was printed. I am most curious about the line where he quotes the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:55 PM Guest;Curious. It appears from the linked article that the Brewers using this for advertising fully accepted the accusation that the original rhyme had (what would now be considered) racist overtones. Bob Sullivan, vice president and chief marketing officer with Boulevard Brewing, said no one had complained about the beer billboard. "It's a choice campaign," he said. "It has nothing to do with race, color or creed," Sullivan said. "You would be the first person who's brought that to our attention." Sullivan thinks that time and the wording change in the rhyme have been enough to disassociate it from its racist past. He said it would be "a huge stretch" now to make the connection. CHEERS Nigel |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Peace Date: 20 Aug 06 - 03:00 PM History of eeny meeny |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Sorcha Date: 20 Aug 06 - 03:05 PM I grew up in south central Kansas. The N word was used, except in our house...we used monkey. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,YearsGoneBy Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:07 AM I learned a similar version of this from an 8 yr.old friend whose parents were from the U.K., some 30 odd years ago.We used it as a secret count ...I couldn't tell you if that was it's original use or not,but it goes like this (spelling unknown) Eeny meeny macker racker Rare aye domma racker Ricker racker Romma racker Rom pom poosh. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Andy Jackson Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM From my Irish, but a long time in Englad, mother, when I was but a child. eeni meenie macaraca rare oh Domino, hallapaca doodiaca him pim flesh |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,senewb Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:53 AM About 10 years ago when I was in school... we used the enney meany miney mo - tiger version...but we also used enney meany boocha keeny be bo boperinni acha cacha boomeracha out goes y o u (at this point you could continue if you didnt want that person to go out...) not because youre dirty not because youre clean just because you kissed the boy behind the magazine ... looking back, it's kinda weird. Has anyone ever heard or seen a version like this? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: greg stephens Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:29 AM Very unusual version,senewb. Where are we talking about? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:29 AM Hopefully senewb will respond to your post greg. However, if you're talking about the second version of that rhyme that senewb shared, in my informal but relatively constant collection of rhymes over the Internet {from 2000 to date}m I've found a number of versions of those lines. Here's an example from http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php candy apple on a stick makes my heart go 3,4 to 6 not because your dirrty not because your clean just because you kissed a boy behind the magazine hey girls wanna have some fun here come(_name_) with his pants undone he can wobble he can do the twist but most of all he can kiss kiss kiss now close your eyes and count to ten if you miss u mary him! -posted by Lil gUm cHeweR at April 28, 2004 -snip- Since the mid 1980s, I've been alert to children's rhymes performed by children {mostly Black children} in the Pittsburgh area. I've heard "eenie meenie" [with the "catch a tiger by the toe" and the "ensty minsty miney mo" ending] used as a counting out rhyme. But I haven't [yet] heard that candy apple on a stick rhyme. However, it may indeed be recited here. I've collected that 'apple on a stick' and 'kiss a boy behind a magazine' verse from two Pittsburgh adults who grew up in other US cities. And I found this version of all three of those rhymes in a book on Black American children's rhymes from Houston, Texas Barbara Michels & Bettye White, "Apples On A Stick" (Coward-McCann, New York, 1983, p. 17) Shake, shake, shake Eeny meany That's a queeny Ooh ba Thumblina Ah cha ca che Liberace Oh baby I love you Yes I do Take a peach Take a plum Take a piece of bubble gum No peach No plum Just a piece of bubble gum Ooshe ahshe Ooshe ahshe I want a piece of pie The pie too sweet I want a piece of meat The meat too tough I want to ride the bus The bus too full I want to ride the bull The bull's too black I want my money back The money's too green I want a diamond ring. -snip- Btw, the authors didn't note which category of rhyme this is. I think it's either handclap rhyme or a jump rope rhyme. Fwiw, it appears that a number of jumprope rhymes have become handclap rhymes and not vice versa. There's various reasons why jumping rope appears to be done less often. Imo, one key reason is that school teachers and other staff no longer provide jumpropes for girls to play with during school recess. Another key reason is that the clothes dryer has made obsolete the practice of hanging clothes outside on lines to dry. This removed children's access to those 'clothes lines' which were a 'free' source of jump ropes. My opinion on those fake jump ropes they sell at stores nowadays- "Bah Humbug!" |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:46 AM Hmmm. Well that last rhyme I posted didn't have a version of "eenie meenie" or "kiss a girl behind the magazine". Sorry 'bout that. Lemme try again with three other examples that I don't think I posted here yet. First, here's the version of the eenie meenie rhyme I recited as a child in Atlantic City, New Jersey {1950s} Eenie Meenie Thumableenie Oosh Ah Umbaleenie Ahsie Mashie Kokalaashie I love you. -snip- Here's an example of an eenie meenie rhyme that I collected from an African American woman who lives in Pittsburgh: Eenie Meenie Justaleanie Eenie Meanie Justa Leanie Ooca Acla Trackalacka, I love you. Take a peach, Take a plum Take a piece of bubble gum. Teacher, Teacher, Dummy Dum Gimme back my bubble gum. Saw you with your boyfriend last night. How do you know? I was peekin' through the keyhold. NOSY Wash them dishes LAZY Jump out the window CRAZY Peaches on the tree, Bananas on the floor Jump back baby. I Don't Love You No More! - Donetta A. {Pittsburgh, PA 1984} http://www.cocojams.com/handclap_rhymes_example_0104.htm -anip- Also here's another rhyme that I think can be claimed by the 'eenie meenie miney mo' family, at least as a distant cousin: itsy bitsy teeny witsy ew oh to0-ba-leeny outsy whatsy sellahawts say the magic words.. i have a stick of chewing gum and if you want the other half.. this is what you say.. amen. amen. amen-deyago sedeyago hookes pookes sallamoskes sis.. sis .. sis coom ba.. everybody eerybody RA-RA-RA.. BOO-BOO-BOO.. sitting on a trash can banging on a tin can i can you can nobody else can sitting on a bench.. nothnig to do.. along comes a little baby goochy gochy goo.. i learned this as when i was litte. posted by brrittannee at March 25, 2005 http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:56 AM Okay, rereading that shake shake shake rhyme, there is a version of eenie meenie.... Calgon, take me away!!! [now that line has nothing to do with eenie meenie. But some people may remember it from a tv commercial. See http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1340919 for more information about the popular use of that line. I think that "Calgon, take me away" is also mentioned in this Mudcat thread: detail.cfm?messages__Message_ID=1963880 Jingles you remember. But maybe not since it's not a jingle. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to go off topic then, and now and well.. It's the Sagittarian in me. Oops, I was about to do it again. I'm outa here. :o) Enjoy! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Sherbs Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:52 PM I learned a version of the 'Eeny Meeny rhyme' in school in the '70s on the Gower as a method of counting out. We used the version with the N word, but I don't think any of us actually knew what it meant, we just regarded it as just another nonsense word along with the rest of the rhyme. We also had the 'one potato' rhyme but it was not used for counting out, it was more like a game in itself. On another note, this is one that was around much later when I was a teenager and I've no idea where it comes from, it might have just been made up by the people who were chanting it. I'll have a Degville Duckett Duck it up and down Bon Jovi, Cherry on a stick I'll have a dry martini shaken not stirred in a bidet with a slice of lemon and two veg |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Sue A Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:26 PM Since someone above mentioned Lakeland sheep counting I thought I'd offer you one to twenty in it ... but I hasten to add that not only do shepherds not use this counting system, but even end of 19th century references to it regard it as archaic... so when anyone actually DID use it I don't know. This is the version I know, but there are other variations, and similar versions in Wales, Cornwall and Brittany, I understand: yan, tyan, tethera, methera, pimp, sethera, lethera, overa, dovera, dick, yan-a-dick, tyan-a-dick, tethera-dick, methera-dick, bumfit, yan-a-bumfit, tyan-a-bumfit, tethera-bumfit, methera-bumfit, giggot. And yes, in north Cumbria we too said the eeny, meeny, miney, moe rhyme with the n........ word as a counting out rhyme, as well as dip,dip,dip my blue ship (etc) and one potato, two potato (etc). And I've a whole list of other childhood rhymes and games which I noted down, so don't get me started! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Sam Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:28 AM eeny meeny macka racka dare-da dominaka chicka-popper lolli-popper am bam bush OUT |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Spiperblaze Date: 14 May 07 - 12:49 AM My mother grew up in England and taught us this when we were young in America.... it went something like this Enee meanie macker racker rare rye dominacker enee weanie wom pom poof chinese choo choo one two three ..a wooly wooly webster out goes he!!! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bugsy Date: 14 May 07 - 01:27 AM The one we used to do in the early 50's was: " I went into a china shop to buy a loaf of bread he put me in a pillow case and this is what he said eenie meeni macka racka rairia dominacka chicka racka lollipoppa Om pom push." and the one on "push" got pushed out of the equation, CHeers Bugsy |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Muttley Date: 14 May 07 - 02:49 AM Here's a couple from Oz if they haven't been posted yet. I remeber most of these (actually - ALL of them - - - - sad. I must be getting old(er). Eeni Meenie macka racka rare rye dominacka Chickapop alollipop Rang pang puss Usually followed by: Penny on the water, Tuppence on the sea Threepence on the whirly-whirly You're not 'he' (UK or US kids might say "You're not 'it'") Another goes Eenie meenie makka rakka rear rie damma nakker rang pang push Here're a few others: Eerie oarie ickory am Queerbie quorby raspberry jam Filsy folsie Irishman Tickle em, tackle em; bosh AND Intery mintery cuttery corn Brambly briar and brambly thorn Wire briar barrel lock Three geese in a flock One flew east and one flew west And one flew over the cuckoo's nest (which is probably how the bbok and film of that title came to be - a nonsense rhyme and the fact that cuckoos don't build nests) Ickey ackey horses cackey (poo) what colour will it be? (child landed on would nominate a colour - preferably a long one to ensure they didn't get landed on for "it / he" . . . . Yellow - Y..E..L..L..O..W Whoever copped the "W" was "it" or "he" for the chasey game. I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread He wrapped it up in a ten-bob note and this is what he said: "Eli eli chickabye chickabye, saw a sausage - in bed! Went to the other one, got me another one: Drop dead!" AND FINALLY I saw Esau sitting on a see-saw; I saw Esau sitting on a gate I saw Esau sitting on a see-saw; I saw Esau kissing our Kate Thes, of course were all 'counting rhymes to dtermine who was going to be doing the chasing in the game about to commence and were generally made as complicated as possible in order to prevent rigging the outcome. I also recall one that seemed to end with "Bumbarumba gosh - Nineteen Hundred and One!" (1901 being the year Australia achieved Federation status and the right to govern itself independent of English veto oe approval). Muttley My wasn't that fun! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:15 PM Looks like no ones posted here in a while, but the version I learned as a kid for the flea song went (and I'm just spelling as things were pronounced) flea flea fly flea fly flo cumula cumula cumula vista oohhhh no, not la vista ta vista eenie meenie mussolini ooo ah ah, ah ma-lini ocha cocha cumoracha oo ah ah ish killy oaten boaten o boe ba ditn dot odden cotton sssshh I remember learning it in fourth grade, and I remember the teacher teaching it to us because she said it would help us remember something. But I don't remember what, LOL. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Jaycey Date: 08 Sep 07 - 05:57 AM I know yet another variation of "eena meena", which is this one (guessed spelling!):- Eena meena mickeracka Air eye dobinacka Chickabacka chickabacka Chinese choo-choo Air-a-dona chickerona Alla-balla wobstick Out goes SHE! Out goes another one and that is HE! This was taught to me by my mother, who is now 91 and was brought up in Stockport (she's got a good memory!). My brother (born 1945) always did "Dip dip dip, my blue ship" when his generation were picking "It", and at my school, we always did "one potato, two potato" (I was born in 1954, and brought up in Oxfordshire). I also remember lots of other playground games and songs (such as "The big ship sailed on the alley, alley-oh") and skipping songs, using great long washing lines as the ropes, so lots of people could fit in - there were lots of songs which involved getting people in and out of the skipping group. A couple I remember are:- Granny's in the kitchen Doing a bit of knitting IN comes a bogeyman And pushes her OUT! Matthew, Mark, Luke and John The next person follow ON! Do children still play like this today? (I don't have any so I don't know.) Nobody was allowed to stay indoors during 'playtime' in my day, you were pushed outside come rain or shine! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,G Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:02 PM I was searching on the net to find out the real words to eenie, meenie, minie, mo etc. and i came across this site. I am from England and all my life ive thought that it goes.. eenie, meenie, minie, mo catch a pity by it's toe if it squeals let it go. eenie, meenie, minie, mo i asked some of my friends and the said the same rhyme replacing "pity" with 'robber' 'tigger' 'tiger' and 'fishy'. We then asked another person and they said n****r. As for playing tag I used to only say 'your it' and that was only 7 years ago. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:55 PM From Salford in the 1930s, where my mum lived as a girl, and passed on to me. Rendered phonetically, you understand, and four beats to the bar! Eeny meeny mackeracka Rare eye dummeracka Chickeracka rare eye Om pom push |
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Subject: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,a 12 year old girl Date: 20 Nov 07 - 03:41 PM honestly i heardd: iney meanie miny mo chatch a nigger by his to if he hollars make him pay 50 dollars every day |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,man aged 25 Date: 03 Dec 07 - 08:09 AM I thought that it went: Eenie Meenie Makerarcker Air- eye Dominaka Chicka Packer Aleraker um Pum Push OUT! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Melissa Date: 03 Dec 07 - 06:59 PM 12 year old girl, does your version go on to say: (fifty dollars every day) My mother told me to pick the very best one and you are not IT? My classmates pretty much abandoned EenyMeenie when we learned Inka Binka Bottle of ink the cork fell out and you stink I don't know what "horse and goggle" means, but that's what I use with my gs troop: "Ein Zwei Drei...horsengoggle" At 'horsengoggle' we all put a hand into the circle...count the total number of fingers, and count off from there. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Apina Date: 09 Jan 08 - 09:36 AM Does anyone remember The big ship sailed on the alley alley oh The alley alley oh The alley alley oh The big ship sailed on the alley alley oh On the last day of September The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea The bottom of the sea The bottom of the sea The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea On the last day of September There are other verses I can't quite remember - 'The Captain said "This will never never do"' was one of them. And I have often in recent times wondered if it was based on a real story of a shipwreck, but haven't managed to locate anything obvious. Our Eeny Meeny, in Birmingham England in the 60/70s was: Eeny meeny miny mo Catch a nigger by his toe If he squeals, let him go Eeny meeny miny mo We were a school of 6-10 yr old middle class white kids and if anybody knew what nigger meant, I certainly didn't. I dare say we'd have still used it if we did; kids are not very pc left to their own devices and at that time there was no general awareness of racism. We had our own vocabulary of taunt and our own 'isms' too. We had two school buses, one of which came past the Monyhull Hall mental hospital (as it then was). Inmates of the hospital were known to us as 'Monnies' (obviously derived from the name of the place) and this was, by extension, applied to kids who came in on that bus. "You're a Monny" rendered in a high-pitched Brummie accent takes me right back... We were little horrors. Fortunately most kids grow out of it under the civilising influence of parents and teachers and generation by generation we leave it behind us. I hear no hint of it in my daughter's playground, but sadly they still find ways to be cruel to each other. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 09 Jan 08 - 05:58 PM I dare say we'd have still used [the "n word"] if we did [know what it meant]; kids are not very pc left to their own devices and at that time there was no general awareness of racism -Apina Apina, thanks for the honesty of your post. You described your childhood school as having no non-White students. I wonder if you and your peers would have openly used that "n word" in school if that school had had a number of students who were non-White. I think you probably wouldn't have for a number of reasons, including the fact that those non-White students would not have taken kindly to the use of that word when they were told {by older students in the know, and/or by adults} what it meant. ** As a matter of record, in my African American neighborhood [in Atlantic City, New Jersey in the 1950s], the eenie meenie rhyme was always recited as "catch a tiger by the toe". I didn't know that it was ever anything different than that. And "catch a tiger by the toe" is the way that I've heard that counting out or choosing It rhyme recited by African American girls & boys in my adopted hometown of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania since I moved here in the late 1960s. And as an aside, let me say that in the ten years that I've been formally collecting children's rhymes, including taunting rhymes, I've come across very few children's rhymes that refer to race or ethnicity or skin color. I'm glad that this version of the eenie meenie rhyme-with its use of a derogatory referent-has largely been retired. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 10 Jan 08 - 08:12 AM Having re-read this sentence that I wrote in my last post to this thread, I'd like to change it this way: ...I think you probably wouldn't have for a number of reasons, including the fact that those non-White students would not have taken kindly to the use of that word when they were told {by older students in the know, and/or by adults} what society says it means. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 11 Jan 08 - 08:12 AM A German version for counting out: Eene meene muh - und aus bist du (- and out are you) Note: the ee is a flat e like in set, but longer. The single unstressed e is a murmur vowel, like the Hebrew shwa mobile. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,teartse (from the netherlands) Date: 23 Mar 08 - 11:45 AM Especially in the light of the American version with the racist "n-word" readers might find a suggested slave-trade-Portuguese-Creole origin of the version in The Netherlands curiously interesting. The Dutch version reads (I add a,what I think to be, equivalent in English phonetics as close as it gets, and a translation into Enlish of the no-nonsense lines): Iene miene mutte Eena meena mutte Tien pond grutten Teen pond grutte Ten pounds of groats Tien pond kaas Teen pond kaas Ten pounds of cheese Iene miene mutte Eena meena mutte Is de baas Is the baas Is the boss I read in Wikipedia that according to Frank Arion, a writer from Paramaribo, Surinam,this originates from a song sung by black slaves on St Thomé, an island west of the African west coast,from where the slaves were transported on ships to America. The phonetic similarity is indeed very striking: Iene miene muito Tempo de n'grutta Tempo de n'kasala Iene miene muito Es de baixe. Iene in that Creole language is a pluralizer. Miene is from the Portuguese word for girl: menina. Muito is the Portuguese word for much, many. Tempo means time. I do not know the origin of n'grutta, according to Frank Arion it means: to make love.Kasala comes from the Portuguese "casar se" which means to mary. Baixa is the Portuguese word for down, below.(Pronunciation of kasala and baixa is kashalla and basha.) So it means: Many girls. Time to make love, Time to mary. Many girls Down there below. Note: the male slaves were put on the upper decks, the women below in the lower decks. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 23 Mar 08 - 12:42 PM GUEST,teartse, thanks for sharing that example! That's quite interesting reading, particularly so in light of the close similarities between that version and the German language version that was posted by Wilfried Schaum. teartse, I hope that you continuing posting on Mudcat either as a member or as a guest. Membership is free and easy. Just click on the Membership link near the top, upper right hand corner. One of the benefits of joining Mudcat is that you can exchange private electronic messages with other members. I mention that because I'd love to learn more from you about slave-trade-Portuguese-Creole origin of the version in The Netherlands and other subjects, but that would be going off-topic too much in this thread. Best wishes, Azizi |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,roxiraccoon Date: 18 May 08 - 04:24 PM We had this one while I was growing up in Fort Devens MA, in the early 80's: Eanie Meanie Acha Cheanie, Ah, Boo, Bubblinie, Acha Chacha, Livaracha, Out goes Y-O-U and you shall not be it! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Stephen (from Doncaster, South Yorkshire) Date: 04 Aug 08 - 10:00 AM We had a number of counting rhymes in the 70's. [1] We used: - Eenie meenie minie mo Catch a tiger/nigger by the toe When he hollers, let him go Eenie meenie minie mo. We mostly said 'tiger', although 'nigger' was known of. Incedentally, the word 'nigger' wasn't considered any more insulting than 'brummie', 'geordie' or 'scouse' are now. [2] Less well known, but more prized was: - Eenie meenie mackeracker rare rare dominacker chicker packer lollipopper om pom push (the spelling is arbitrary!) [3] Quite popular was: - Racing car number nine Losing petrol all the time How many gallons did it loose? At this point the person whose 'spud' (i.e. fist) was counted on the word 'loose' would supply a number, say 'seven'. The rhyme was then completed using the supplied number, thus: - One, two, three, four, five, six, seven And out you must GO. [4] Later, we got lazy and the counting rhymes degenerated to this: - Girl guide, boy scout, OUT. [5] And: - Ittle ottle, Shit in a bottle, Ittle ottle, OUT. Nice, eh? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,the good ship sails on the ally ally ay nurs Date: 19 Aug 08 - 04:03 AM |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,wystan Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:03 AM For us it was always, and will always be Eeney meeney macaraca Air-eye dominaca Chickaraca boomaraca Bom bom French This chorus was usually skipped to. We never gave a thought to the meaning of course, and never saw it written down. If it had been written, there would naturally have been fewer variations around the country. Don't you love this kind of reminiscence? Mind you, I wouldn't want a whole morning of it.............off to work! Wystan |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Eva Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM This is what I remember my mom singing... spelling is a complete guess! Amalama comaloam umla vista, oh no no no no da vista, atchi batchi comalatchi, ew ah, ew alamini, ipsaliny gyspaliny I mean you. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,your mum Date: 17 Oct 08 - 04:58 PM eenie meenie mackarack rare eye dominaca cheeky beeky lolipopa rom pom push OUT :) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,macca Date: 22 Feb 09 - 09:21 AM I used to sing this in school in the 80's in NW England The teacher would sing one verse and all the kids had to (try to) repeat it. Great Eenie meeny mackeracka Dare-dum dominacker Ting-a-ling-a-lollipop Bing bang boosh! Ratten-scatten do ra ra! Essamany sallamany oowalla wallamany , Essamany sallamany oowalla wah! A'bo a dic a doc a bo-bo a dic a doc a chuh! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Gweltas Date: 22 Feb 09 - 07:11 PM One I learned from my mother back in the early 1950's which she said was a counting out rhyme from her childhood (mid 1920's) in Roscrea, Co. Tipperary, Ireland. "Ink Pink Pepper and Ink Stooby Stawby Stybey Stink" The person the word "stink" landed on was either "it", or was the one to be eliminated from the game, depending on the circumstances. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Peter Deery Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:47 AM In croydon surrey,they say it like this eeni meeni mickaraca rare rye dominaca chicharacka lollipop ping pang push |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,annwebster Date: 08 Oct 09 - 04:31 PM the one I learned from my mother. she was born in Darlington, uk in 1915., and she told me that she used to sing it with her friends around the street lamps near her house in central Darlington. I teach it now to my class of pupils in school. 'eena meena macca racca raro dominaca alabacca jukalaca om pom push |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,John Owens Date: 12 Oct 09 - 11:11 AM My Mother taught it to me on the Wirral in the 1940s Our version - eena meena macca racca rare row domino arra barra judy arra um tum tush the - ennie meenie minie mo etc. we also said but as something quite different |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 19 Oct 09 - 04:10 AM O.K. I cants takes no more........ eena meena mackeracka dare doe dominacka chick a pop, a lollipop a rom bom bush. a rom bom bush. a rom, a rom, a rom, a-rom, a, rom, bom, bush..... your Out Anyways what irish ever agreed with each other ??? Wonder why we are fighting for over 8 hundred years !!! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Ben Knowles Date: 02 Dec 09 - 07:51 AM Its obvious to me that it goes Einie meanie macca racca Rare Eye Dominacca Chica Choca Lollipoppa Rom Pom Push MY mother taught it to me and she's always right Though my dad taught me Rim Strim Pimarickle Leather Bone Ring Tale Tim Tom Barny Kieno He's from norfolk though so can be forgiven |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,harri Date: 13 Dec 09 - 08:58 AM i learnt one which goes: Eenie Meanie mackaracka Dare door dominacka Licka Locka lollipoppa Om pom poosh OUT! then the person who landed on 'out' was out of the circle, lol thats just how we played =] x |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Rachel Date: 08 Jan 10 - 02:11 PM Eany meany maka raka rare rye dominaka chika poka lollipop rom pom push! I love this rhyme and still use it daily lol! People think your crazy but then they realise the fasination and need to learn! He he x |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,RobinD Date: 22 Jan 10 - 02:56 PM Well, let's keep this thread going for ever! Mine (South Staffordshire, around 1950) was: Eeny meeny mackeracka Rare rye dumeracka Chickabocker lollipopper Rum pum PUSH And if you didn't like the answer when someone was rejected at push you ignored it and went on with: O U T spells out so out you GO. And yes, we also used the normal eeny, meeny minie mo (with "if" he hollers, not "when"). |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Chloe Date: 06 May 10 - 07:36 AM I never realised there were so many different versions or the chant. I've forgotten the last part but we said... Eeny meeny, maka raka rare raa dumaraka chicka barley lollipop a red, white or blue? Then the person being pointed at would choose between red, white or blue and the chant would continue.. e.g blue= blue is for sky,sky,sky blue is for sky, so out goes you! I think white was for cloud, but I can't remember what red stood for!! Birmingham England |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 06 Jul 10 - 06:15 PM As children living in London in the 1960s/70s we used to say the following:- Eeni meeni maca racka, rare rye domin acka, Chicka pocka lolli poppa, Om pom push! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Aug 10 - 11:33 AM My mother grew up in the Mile End road London in the 1920's and as well as the usual eena meena mackeracker also taught me;- Eena meena mink monk tink tonk tarver Izza vizza voo var vetch The 'monk 'to rhyme with 'tonk'not as in inmate of a monastery!Great thread;hope this helps! Stuart |
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Subject: Scottish gibberish rym From: GUEST,Nick Date: 22 Dec 10 - 08:55 AM Dear Sir/Madam, I am trying to find a rym that my Grandmother once spoke in Gibberish. She was Scotts, and I only no the first few words and I not even sure of the spelling. Any way it's something like this. Cash-a-Bunger-Gee-a-Gibbler, Something, Something,Something ,Something. Can you help. Many thanks Nick |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Stu Date: 04 Feb 11 - 11:46 AM I was brought up in Stokesley, north yorkshire and we were taught the following and it keeps popping back in my head every so often. Eenie meeny makarakka hum pum pakkarakka, eenie meenie makkarakka hum pum push! Not quite sure what game we played to it but it may have been an elimination game with push being the one that got "pushed" out. Stu |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 04 Feb 11 - 11:55 AM My mum who was from Cork recited much the same thing, but she assured me with a perfectly straight face that it was Chinese! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 02 Mar 11 - 09:16 AM I grew up learning "Inna minna mink monk ooja tuskins uzza buzza mekka tisha ah vi vex." Apparently my grandmother was taught it by a german nanny that would have been the turn of the century. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Hannah and Benedicte Date: 22 Mar 11 - 05:52 AM ennie meanie maca raca rare ro dominaca chicka boca lollipoppa om pom pear push |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 25 Mar 11 - 07:14 PM The version taught to me in Ireland in the 1970's was: Eeny Meany Macka Raka, Ray Row Domino, Acka Packa Juli-acka, Tim Tom Tush! It's interesting to see how it's a variant of the older one's above. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:15 PM When my Grandmother got upset because we were about to do something that might hurt us she would blurt out "eeka meeka meeka makka mukka" although I am not sure because I sometimes remember it as smucka mu bucca ma boo. When she was not upset she could not remember it and said she did not know what it meant. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,olivia kwiatkowska Date: 31 May 11 - 08:42 AM i have one... eeny meeny macka racka, rea ro dominacka, chicker bopper, lolliepopper popo rum pum push |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: CheshireCat Date: 31 May 11 - 09:19 AM Those of a certain age may remember a series called "The Comedians" which was broadcast on UK TV from the late 60s and into the 70s. It featured a collection of old-fashioned stand-up comics and launched a number of them into long and successful careers. The comedians included Mike Reid, Les Dawson, Frank Carson and others. In the popular northern club-circuit style of the time, the humour was not something many people would applaud these days - racial jokes were popular, and were even told with glee by Charlie Williams, the only black comedian on the show and a rarity in the profession at the time. Frank Carson, a northern Irishman, told Irish jokes. Bernard Manning was abusive towards everyone, which made him very popular at the time. Anyway, the point of all this is that one of the Comedians - I think it was Frank Carson, but I'm open to correction - released a single based on that rhyme around 1970, which received some airplay on BBC Radio 1 - then the coolest station to listen to, despite employing Tony Blackburn. The lyrics went: Eenie meenie mackeraka, om pom packeraka Eenie meenie mackeraka, om pom push (x2) Ip dip, chibberdy dip, you clap your hands and begin to skip Ip dip, chibberdy dip, you can't wait around all day. ... and that was pretty much it. The "ip dip" bit suggests the lyrics (so to speak) were written around childish methods of deciding who was "it". I can't find any reference to the song (so to speak) but I know that I could never imagine anything quite like it, so it must be real. Anyone else remember this odd cultural item? |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Alan (originally from Kent) Date: 27 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM I got the rhyme from my mother or at least my interpretation of what she was saying, it went, eeny meeny macca racca rare ol domino acca pacca touriacca rom tom tush. it seems of all the variations the first line stays pretty near the same. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,tomkin Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:40 PM Indian version of the rhyme from a 1957 film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BRuNAcl83A |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 05 Jul 11 - 10:08 PM The poster, of course, is gargoyle.... MR. TomKin
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Ben Date: 25 Oct 11 - 04:42 PM Dot eena mena maka raka rare roe domino, all a pack o' doodle lack a rum tum toot. Ugila bugila boo. I die chucka die, chucka die chooney, oony poony umm pum piney. Alla balla west to the chinese chink! Thats how i've always known it |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Kelly Maxwell Date: 24 Nov 11 - 01:30 PM i know one i used to say it when I was 10 it goes: Eenee Meenee Mackaracka Dare Die Dominicka Chickalakka Lolipoppa Oom Poom Push Split |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Kelly Maxwell Date: 24 Nov 11 - 01:42 PM i got another one my sister sung it: my boyfriend gave me an apple my boyfriend gave me a pear my boyfriend gave my a kiss on the lips and threw me down the stairs. i gave him back his apple i gave him back his pear i gave him back his kiss on the lips and threw him down the stairs. the next day we went to the sweet shop to buy some bubble gum and when he wasn't looking i stuck it up his bum. then we went to the movies to watch a horror film and when i wasn't looking he kissed another girl. i threw him over london i threw him over france i threw him over belgium bridge and ripped his underpants. (pants is pronounced Parnts to go with france |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Azizi Date: 25 Nov 11 - 10:51 AM GUEST,tomkin Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:40 PM I've just read your post which included the url for the Indian fun parody of that English children's counting rhyme and jazz musicians. Thanks for sharing that interesting find! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Alan T Date: 13 Mar 12 - 09:11 PM My great uncle Albert who lived from 1902-1979 used to tell me Eeni meeni mackeraca er rye dominacka chicka packa lullapacka rum pum push followed by a 2nd verse that started Er rye chicka rye chickie rickie .... Sorry but I cannot remember the rest but it held me mesmerised as a young boy. Anyone else know the 2nd verse? (spelling is as it sounded to me and may not be correct) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 08 Jul 12 - 02:21 PM eena meena mackaracka rare rah dominacka chickabocka lollipopper om pom push |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: blinddrunkal Date: 09 Jul 12 - 08:10 AM my mother's version - which she claimed was in the Irish language (and mothers never lie) was eena meena mackarake rare rye dominaka iney finey pim pom piney carra carra waska. The Indian version I've heard was by Asha Bhosle, titled "ina mika dika" and is on a record (or cd perhaps) called "Bollywood an anthology of songs from Popular Indian Cinema" on Silva Screen Reords. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Chippy (interesting prignosser) Date: 13 Dec 12 - 09:08 AM Ive heard of these ones... [1] ip skip sky blue definitely not you [2] eenie meenie makaraka rare rai dominaka chikapaka lolipaka rom pom push [3] eeni meenie miney mo catch a granny by the fanny if she moves pull her boobs eenie meenie miney mo |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Dominacka Date: 03 Feb 13 - 08:18 PM Eeny meeny mackaracka Rare rye dominacka Chickalacka lollipoppa Om Pom push From my nan born in 1920s west London |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Feb 13 - 08:36 PM Interesting how the versions vary, though you could surmise that much of it is just nuance/imperfect memory/hard-to-write-down words. But there is a definite dichotomy between those with "lollipop" or similar and those without. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Paddy Cake Date: 31 May 13 - 03:58 AM Here's an item of interest: Cocteau Twins recorded a song called "Donimo" on their 1984 album, Treasure. In the chorus of the song, Elizabeth Fraser distinctly sings "Eena meena eye rye mackaracka. Eeena meena eye rye dominacka." Check it out on YouTube. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,ageing folky Date: 31 May 13 - 07:44 PM I remember it as eene meene mackaracka Rare rye dominacka Chicka packa lollypoppa Om pom poosh I might not have spelt it correctly but that's how I remember it from some 55-60 years ago |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,joan borland Date: 02 Sep 13 - 09:53 AM i can sing this ded fast... |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Rumncoke Date: 03 Sep 13 - 04:34 AM The English version is 'catch a tinker by his toe'. There are versions in the Oxford book of nursery rhymes. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 05 May 14 - 05:46 PM Ar ai sugar ai Icker acker ony, ony pony om Pom piney Alla walla whiskey Chinese chin |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 12 Aug 15 - 03:56 PM Eeny meny micaraca Rare rie domeraca Chi caraca rom Pom push a Are are pony Allaballa webster Eapadore eapadore chinese chuck chuck Out goes you with a one two and a three My aunt taught me this when I was a child and my grandchildren now say it |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 24 Feb 16 - 08:25 PM My Nottingham Mum's version, which she would say (in the 1930's) --with hand clapping, I believe-- was Eeny meeny mackeracka rare aye donnapacker chickapacker allapacker om pom PUSH! |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Pebutsu Date: 03 Mar 16 - 02:30 PM Jake Thakray the late folk singer remembered it as a shepherd's sheep-counting rhyme: Yan, Chan, Tether, Mether, Pip Aysar, Saysar, Acker, Conder, Dick, Yanadick, Chanadick, Tetheradick, Metheradick, Bumfit Yanabum, Chanabum, Tetherabum, Metherabum, Jiggit. The shepherd would then drop a pebble in a tin and start over. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: keberoxu Date: 03 Mar 16 - 03:11 PM This was lacking in my childhood, I feel deprived. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,CH Date: 10 Mar 17 - 09:55 PM Learned this from my Dad as a child (late 1960's) no idea of spellings or meaning. His grandchildren have learned it too, I didn't realise that so many people knew a similar rhyme until now :) Eeny meeny mackeracka Rare row domanaker chika pocker ollie pocker om pom push Arr Arr chickara Rooney Pooney Ping pong parney Walla walla waxy Chinese chick |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: FreddyHeadey Date: 12 May 17 - 05:56 PM When people add the variant they've learned it would lovely if they could mention the rough date they knew it & the district |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 10 Sep 17 - 07:34 PM Eenie Meenie Makka-Rakka; Dare, die, dominakka; Chikka-rakka, om bom BUSH! Wales, Pontypridd, 1982, from father who said he learned it in his childhood, same area, 10-20 years before. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Margie Date: 21 Feb 18 - 02:15 AM I learned this version at school in East London, South Africa in the 1950s/1960s. It was only recited and wasn't written down so I'm unsure of the spelling: Eena meena macca racca Ree rye dominacca Chicka racca aller pacca Om pom push |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Mark Date: 31 Aug 18 - 07:09 AM Hi, I was at primary school in South Wales and learned it like this: Eeny meeny mackeracca, dare dai dominacca, chickeracca pom pom, push out you are not it. It looks like there are a huge number of variations to this. We always used it just as a way of choosing teams or who was It. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 18 - 11:23 AM Wow I thought I would never find this written down! My mother used to Sing/say it to me over 50 years ago. I thought she had made it up herself lol! Where does it come from and what does it mean? Susan |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,cath Date: 14 Jun 19 - 11:16 AM we had. eeny meeny miceracca rare ry dominacca eenie meenie miceracca rom pom pusha this is how I learnt it as a child. while eating with a spoon and pusher. the pusher was a shaped utensil for pushing food onto the spoon. this goes back to my grandma when she was young. she was born in 1920 |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 20 Oct 19 - 02:29 PM My Grandfather used to say this. Ar ai shackeri, shackerackeroni, Oni pony, om pom piney, Allawallawaxy, Chinese Chink. The first half I've seen other people write here sounds familiar, but I don't remember him saying it. He was born in 1918 and grew up in Goodwick, Pembrokeshire |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Ronald.thorne Date: 11 Sep 20 - 05:37 AM I first learned this at lilac Gardens, Rush Green, Romford, in 1945 just after the end of the war. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 16 Jan 23 - 04:38 AM Eeny meany macka racka rare rye dumbaracka chickapopa lollipopa rum tum tush. Sang this as a child round about 1960. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Jan 23 - 05:25 AM Ip dip dip My blue ship Sails on the water Like a cup and saucer Ip dip dip You are IT! (Or "not it," or other extensions of that last line...) Used in the playground, usually by the Alpha Boy, when picking a team. He points to a different kid on every syllable. He could nefariously alter that last line if he could foresee that "it" would be an undesirable member of his team! Alternate "captains" would use the rhyme repeatedly until everyone had been picked. Naturally, if you were like me, i.e., the three-legged carthorse of football, you would, humiliatingly, be the last one picked... From Radcliffe, Lancashire, in the 1950s. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 23 - 07:21 AM This sticks in my head from childhood isaka dominaka chickeraka lollipoppa rom pom push Does anyone else remember it and have any idea of its origins? Miltz |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Joe_F Date: 28 Jan 23 - 09:02 PM When I was in grade school (southern California, 1940s) we had Eeny meeny miney mo, Catch a tiger by the toe. If he hollers, make him pay Fifty dollars every day. My mother told me to choose this very best ONE. We knew that the original had "nigger" but that that was a bad word. I imagine we got that information from the grownups. |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bugsy Date: 09 Feb 23 - 11:13 PM This is what I remember from early childhood. I went into a China shop to buy a loaf of bread he put me in a pillowcase and this is what he said, "Eanie meanie macker racker rare eye dominacka chicka racka lollipoppa om pom push!" The rhyme was used when playing "Spuds" to decide who went first/last, in whichever game we were about to play. CHeers Bugsy |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bugsy Date: 12 Feb 23 - 09:22 PM eve Shaw, "Ip dip dip My blue ship Sails on the water Like a cup and saucer Ip dip dip You are IT!" Brought back memories of when I was a little nipper in Stevenage New town. Most of the kids from our street were from the East End. The rhyme they used was "Ip, Dip, Dog, Shit, You, Are, Not, It!" Ah... the memories. Cheers Bugsy |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:42 AM Eve? :-) We were good Catholic kids and the staff room window was wide open. The word "shit" was never uttered! <> halo emoticon |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: Bugsy Date: 14 Feb 23 - 02:28 AM Being a catholic myself, I Never used this rhyme in earshot of my parents. No expletives passed my lips until I was well out of earshot in the woods! Cheers Bugsy |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 16 Mar 24 - 06:05 PM Round about the mid-fifties when I was 11, in Greenwich/Charlton, SE London, we used to sing: Eenie meenie mackaracka Dare or die dominacka Chikka bakka lollipop Oom boom push (which got changed to shove occasionally) |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST Date: 03 Jun 24 - 05:03 AM That's the version I know, well done, never thought I'd see it written |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,Campjo Date: 12 Jul 24 - 05:02 PM The version I recall (Norton on Tees) Went Eeny meeny makkerakka Aero dominakka Allabakka chuckalakka Rom Pom push |
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes) From: GUEST,henryp Date: 15 Jul 24 - 05:14 PM In 'Brigg Fair - A memoir of Joseph Taylor' (edited by Peter Collinson), E Marion Hudson recalls a walk with her great grand-father, the singer Joseph Taylor, in Saxby-All-Saints, Lincolnshire. When we got nearly to the end of the street, we climbed a tiny track and through a small gate into a field where, at the top, was a large flock of sheep with the shepherd. Obviously he was expecting us as he was leaning on his crook waiting to count his sheep. Grandpa, with his usual courtesy, introduced us. Then the mystery was solved! The shepherd hooked his crook over his left arm holding his stick in the same hand and a knife in the other, began to count: “Yan, tan, tethera, pethera, pamp, “Sethera, lethera, hoverer, covera, dix” (being ten) “Yan-a-dix, tan-a-dix and so on up to “Bumfit” which is fifteen then “Yan-a-sethera” and so on until he came to twenty which is “Figgit”. At this point he made a notch on his stick. He repeated the programme until all the sheep were counted then adding the Figgits and extra numbers found the total. It was an unforgettable experience. |
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