WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!

Subject: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 May 98 - 02:39 PM

For me it's got to be to encounter kindred spirits who approach this music somewhat like I do. I've been with a few music lists, some with academic "purposes" (supposedly) and some not. It's here I keep on returning just to see what's come up and I want or need to get involved in. But it all comes down to feeling comfortable here, finding what I want generally and not being alienated by what goes down. That sounds like the old pleasure principle in action. And I hope some o' what I have to add might be helpful too. (Sounds a bit like sex too, don't it?)

I'm wondering why others have come here ??

(Just realized I've not used the word FOLK anywhere in this message. Strange, but maybe not!)

Art

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 May 98 - 02:51 PM

I suppose another vein to explore is what's the difference between this forum and rec.music.folk. I used to follow rec.music.folk, but lately I've neclected RMF and spent all my time here. I think it's mostly because this is a more friendly atmosphere, and people here let their personalities shine through. RMF has always been a good place to exchange folk music INFORMATION. Here, you get to know real PEOPLE.
Darn nice people, too.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Alice
Date: 04 May 98 - 04:57 PM

I agree with you Art and Joe. I also feel that having the database search right here at our fingertips keeps us discussing and sharing the lyrics and songs. The way this forum is set up makes it easy to give a quick response (while the emotions are still hot) without having to jump through too many hoops. I credit Max for designing a very friendly layout for the forum. All the little extras like being able to trace a thread easily and to search the forum quickly make the barriers come down. It is just as if we were all sitting around together, talking, with a library of information at our fingertips to add to the discussion. I enjoy how people can relate their personal stories, start a thread like our 'fantasy' song circles, what kind of instruments we own, etc. I was just thinking about this yesterday... that there are people in other parts of the world that I would never have met except for the Mudcat, and they are people with whom I feel a bond through the music interests we share here.

Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: steve t
Date: 04 May 98 - 05:00 PM

I just saw Alice's post. Good points, Alice.

I know it's not terribly logical, but I do tend to feel I know people simply because of the songs they choose to sing and how they sing them. And though it's not as strong, I kind of expect certain qualities in fans of folk music -- empathy for others is the strongest one (not in the sense of being terribly understanding, but in the sense of not wanting to knowingly hurt others). And if you feel empathy for others, it can be painful when they feel indifferent to, or loudly dislike your music. Mudcat feels like a very safe place.

I was in my early twenties before I found out that there were lots of other people who also liked folk music. I remember my bogglement over the fact that most musicians I met were FAMILIAR with, often liked, Wild Mountain Thyme, for example. And women -- I don't think it had ever occured to me that there were lots of women who liked folk music. Wow.

I feel accepted here. People are helpful and friendly. The wiser people (quite wisely) never come down hard on anyone, even me.

I hope the Objectionable Material and Cop Killer threads don't wound anyone. I've been fascinated by the opinions though.

Sadly though, I expect mudcatting is usually a binge thing for me.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Roger Himler
Date: 04 May 98 - 05:09 PM

I'm new to the Mudcat, but I am already addicted. I guess I first logged on in February after doing a search for information about Lead Belly. I was led to this area. I didn't get the information I wanted right away, but I got a nice friendly response. So I kept coming back. As I read threads, I found I had some information to offer as well.

So here's a group of people who share a common interest in music. I feel like I learn information, especially little twigs of information that I wouldn't learn anywhere else. If a question comes to mind, very few go unanswered for long. Sometimes you don't get an answer, just an opinion or a related question, but you do get a response. It feels very casual.

I also came on at a time when the Mudcat was having problems. But the problems got taken care of and the feeling is that Max and his friends truly care about the forum and the people on it.

What amazes me, is that there must be a large number of *lurkers* on this forum if it gets so overloaded. *Lurkers* are people who scan the threads, but never respond and never ask questions.

I am just beginning to get a sense of personalities like Art, but that is an attraction to. May Mudcat keep on keepin' on.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: BAZ
Date: 04 May 98 - 05:34 PM

I haven't got a wordy reason but what happens when the Pub shuts or the gig finishes? The singers keep singing the musicians keep playing and we all keep talking about music and swapping songs. Sounds like Mudcat to me!
A great place to be after hours.
Baz

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bo
Date: 04 May 98 - 05:49 PM

I really like the chatty format of the message list. I think part of reason the chat room wasn't widely used is that the list has so much room for responce, in a more considerred directed (on topic) format.

When I first joined the mudcat I was really blown away by the Data base ( I still am !) but I think the sense of shared purpose in expanding it and creating something is more prevalent than awe, for what has been created. I do think this is the best 'songbook' in the world because you can contribute to it both by request and addition.

I really have to thank all the reqular contributors as well, Bruce, Art, Joe, Allison ..... I like seeing a header and having a notion of other opinions\posts from that person. It's really the regular contributors that determine what is "folk" here.

There is no way to thank the creators of Mudcat for their sense of hospitality. Max and everyone, you really have created a 'space' in cyberspace that gathers good people and the best folk songbook in the world.

Bo

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 May 98 - 09:37 PM

Sure do agree with all of you!!

I'd never ever used a computer before January when I went out and got one. Almost first thing I found was Mudcat. In many ways it's been a lifesaver for me. Friends made when touring now come right home with me via this cyber-thing. The SONGS are now part of me and part of my life. That happens when one has been singing to make ends meet for almost 40 years. But the community, that we truly are a part of, was lost when I had to leave off traveling and gigging. Now, through E-mail and Mudcat, I stay in touch more than I ever could before. Glad you ALL are here. Wish I knew more by real names though. When coming in to this "club" I was too new to know there might be valid reasons to stay anonymous--so I didn't. I've mixed feelings now about that, but I'm generally glad to be up front there. Hell, if I wasn't in the phone book a decade ago I wouldn't have gotten any gigs!

Yes, it does seem we came here for similar reasons!!

Nice to know!------Art

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: DWDitty
Date: 04 May 98 - 10:14 PM

Great thread, Art. I have expressed many of these feelings in thank you threads to Max. The Cat is a community in every sense - but more so. While there are certainly strong expressions of emotion, no one is out-right rude to another Catter. (Please don't tell me we all have to be connected electronically to realize Rodney King's request to just get along!)

For whatever reason, I come back every day to see what's up - - and will continue to do so. BTW, has anyone heard from Peter (San Diego, I think). I always found his contibutions to be both thoughtful and very funny.

DWDitty (Rich Gallagher)

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Gene E
Date: 04 May 98 - 10:56 PM

I like the fact that I can find other blues fans. End of story.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Jon W.
Date: 05 May 98 - 12:11 AM

In a word, acceptance. I'm the only one I know who really likes the music I like. Oh, my wife likes Irish all right, but she tends towards the more modern and new-age-ish stuff (Enya et. al.) where I go for the traditional. Plenty of guys around like the blues--but mention Son House, Charlie Patton, and Tommy Johnson and they don't have a clue. And as for just plain old American folk, I don't know anyone who listens to it 'sides me. So it's good to be able to discuss it with others. And I get a kick out of answering those lyric requests and other tidbits of trivia that float around in my brain.

Jon W.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Leprechaun
Date: 05 May 98 - 12:41 AM

Questions I have had for months or years about obscure lyrics or songs have been answered by folks at this site, usually within a day or two. Many questions have engendered interesting philosophical discussions among thoughtful, intelligent people from all over the world. Even the livelier discussions are done in a respectful tone. I wear my Mudcat T-shirt with pride!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Frank in the swamps
Date: 05 May 98 - 12:49 AM

When I first got my computer I went looking for music. I believe it was Richard Robinsons Tunebook (a great site, in the mudcat links) that lead me to the digital tradition. WOW! talk about striking the jackpot. I posted a request with only a half remembered scrap of verse, next day I had "Trannent Muir". I was hooked. Since then I've come to know a community of very fine people, conversations here, as anyone can see, range from the very serious to the downright hilarious. Help on musical questions is only a keystroke away.

Art, my real name is Frank Edge. I realized that the personality we see on the screen is only a facet of the total person, so I chose the moniker 'In the Swamps'. I live in Florida, if I am having LOTS & LOTS of fun, I am either...

1) Playing guitar.

2) Doing something very private with my Lady Fair.

3) In a canoe, or up to my knees in muck chasing snakes and spiders.

Frank.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Humdinger Folksinger
Date: 05 May 98 - 01:33 AM

I don't feel my day is complete unless I've checked Mudcat a few times. My cousin in Rocky Mount, NC turned me on to the site. Allow me to digress a bit ... In '79, I heeded the immortal words of Horace Greeley and "Went West Young Woman," feeling like my style of music had died and hoping to find it in Oregon. There is a great diversity of music in Portland, but I didn't find what I was looking for; maybe I didn't look in the right places, maybe I truly thought it had died. So, after 12 years, I headed north to the true last frontier, Alaska; specifically Fairbanks. There were some good acoustic musicians, but I still didn't find what I was seeking. After 6 of the most unique years of my life, I decided to head east, southeast, again, and wound up in Tallahassee. By this time, I've given up hope ... until I discovered all these first cousins who have "discovered" folk music! Then I started checking out the Mudcat site on a regular basis and found a whole world of traditionalists and old folkies, and I was literally blown away. I am so in awe of the depth of knowledge contained here and I wish I had known this type of influence when I was a struggling folksinger; perhaps I would never have fallen prey to the lures of capitalist society. By following the threads and tossing in my two cents occasionally, I feel as if I have gotten to know some of you pretty well, by the way you express your thoughts on different subjects, i.e., censorship, etc. Thanks to all and keep the wheels a'turnin' ... ttfn ... Humdinger (Jenny) Folksinger

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From:
Date: 05 May 98 - 02:53 AM

My name is Murray Adelman, Art. To stick out my neck even more, you can see a picture of me at

http://www-math.mpce.mq.edu.au/~ross/maths/photos/madelman.gif

I choose my nome d'mudcat because (a) There was already a Murray posting at the time. (b) My old UNIX habits which lead me to choose a name without any spaces.

I think we do have a community here. The thing we seem to have in common is our ACTIVE interest in music. That doesn't mean we are all players, but, for example, we tend to run to our books and other sites to find out information--some of it quite scholarly. You will see somebody who is interested in Blues make non-trivial contributions to a thread on Celtic music.

Like Joe I have drifted away from rec.music.folk. I found most of the postings shallow--about this or that cassette or this or that artist. (There are some pretty sharp "lurkers" there, however.)

I feel a lack of tolerance in the folk and the guitar players newsgroups that doesn't exist here.

I won't try to analyse why it is the case--I will simply enjoy it.

By the way, I discovered the forum when a friend of mine told me about the database. Being a natural "sticky beak" I had to see what was going on.

Murray

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bert
Date: 05 May 98 - 08:51 AM

I came for the database and stayed for the people.
Also this is the easiest site to use. I have not seen many others where you can scroll through the thread.

Bert.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: barstow
Date: 05 May 98 - 09:41 AM

I found Mudcat thi first day I went online last November, and now that access is improved visit almost daily. I confess to lurking for the most part, waiting to see where the threads are going.

The database is amazing. I have filled in gaps, missing verses, etc. in stuff I have been playing and singing for 30 years. And if you "stump the Database", all of you are out there... sort of a real time folk process. There is a sense of community.

This discussion format with traceable threads is much easier (and less time consuming) than either of the discussion lists (FIDDLE-L and IRTrad)to which I subscribe.

My "real" name is Chris Siegel. (the Barstow is my middle name) Main interests are Celtic fiddle tunes, but my song bag has folk, swing, chanteys, some good old R+B, R+R, and unaccompanied bawdy ditties.

Bert sums it up. "I came for the database and stayed for the people."

Chris

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 05 May 98 - 10:21 AM

I actually found MudCat by accident. :) I was doing a search on the 'net for folk music, and lo and behold, there was Mudcat. I checked it out mainly because i liked the name, and I keep coming back because I find the site fascinating & friendly. I like to get the honest opinions of "real" people. I also like the user-friendliness of the site.

I'm only a sometime folksinger (i.e. in the summer months, when there are more outdoor concerts, benefits, etc.) but I'm a full-time lover of music. My real "first love" is not performing, but writing. My lyrical attempts are mostly in the genres of folk music and sacred music. My musical tastes are about the same as that. I like to listen to folk, jazz, classical and sacred. I guess my real area of knowledge is sacred music.

My "nom de mudcat" (Great phrase, Murray!!!) is of my own invention, i confess. Ireland O'Reilly- she is the central character in my book-in-progress (a collecton of interrelated short stories, which i hope to have completed by early in 1999). My real name is Wendy, and I'm from Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.

Live on, Mudcat!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Alice
Date: 05 May 98 - 11:30 AM

I, too, discovered the database first, then the Mudcat... and I am so happy that I did. There is no other place like it. I have checked into a few other forums on topics such as gardening, birdwatching, nature, but none of them have developed the community that the Mudcat has developed. I think because the lyrics and music can become such an intimate part of our personal (and family) history, there is no bond like the bond shared through music. I have been touched by the number of stories that are connected to the music... father's, grandmother's, etc. The story of how Spancilhill was written is a good example.
Since we are dropping our vitual masks, I can tell you that my full name is Alice Colleen Flynn. I was born in Great Falls, Montana, raised in Helena, and have lived in Bozeman since 1970.(Photo at http://www.mcn.net/~acflynn/Alice.html ). Travelled from Montana to Central America and back in a 1949 Buick, and have a love of El Salvador, where I lived. I like most kinds of music. Irish and American folk music was my early family influence. When I worked at the college FM radio station as a student, I would spin alot of blues records and other styles of music. Since I have been studying voice for the last few years, I developed a taste for Opera, which I never understood until now. (Still don't know enough about it to discuss it.)
I felt alone in a desert void of anyone who sang or played folk music ... it seemed to have died... until I found the Irish session going on every week here. The Mudcat discussions really have enriched my life with the ability to give and take information and stories about this type of music.

Alice

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: erica
Date: 05 May 98 - 12:30 PM

yay, alice!! another opera singin' mudcatter! (i don't think i've ever met anyone who did both before..nice to know i'm not alone with that!) as far as reasons for coming here, i keep returning for all the incredible stories and information that everyone so freely gives, and maybe to find something that i could give back on. i haven't yet gotten a chance to really reciprocate a favour, but i certainly will if i get a chance (with my rather limited music knowledge)! i must admit that i tend to just be a lurker in these pages, though, because generally any thoughts i have on a subject are already expressed by the time i get on a thread. but wow, you folks are just completely great--thanks for all the help, both directly and in-, because i've gotten so much out of threads that i didn't even have any connection to.

erica walz, scotia, ny, usa

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 May 98 - 01:22 PM

Alice, Erica, opera isn't as rare among folkies as I thought. Not me but one of the guys in our group loves to sing it (I don't have a clue), he's also wild aboutthe songs of the Alpenie (sp?, that's how it sounds), it's songs from the Alpenie Mountain soldiers that fought with the allies during WWII, after practice he tries to start us going on 50's & 60's Do Whop. A little over a year ago I broke both legs, I had just got my first dose of hi-teck, it was a delight to have the folk world over while I mended, Ive been just about daily since. I've been walking around for years looking to fill in the gaps of some of the stuff I do, waiting for someone from Oz to explain this or run into some else from Scotland to fill in that or I heard this thing at a festival but no one else can give a clue as to who, what or where, until Mudcat. I enjoy passing along my 2 cents as well the info. Some folks here I've known & sung with for 20 yrs, John Nolan over to my East & I get to see Ricky Rackin, my old roommate, once & a while, 3000 miles away. There are others I've sung & partyed with, who's names I see in the members list who I'm looking forward to seeing when they do get around to showing up in the forum, & it's nice to put a face on the names I see here, like meetig Dick & Susan at the Champlain Valley Folk Fest. & LaMarcia & her husband at the NEFFA fest. (they were wonderful, lots of talent there). And the likes of the personalities that hang about, opinions from the world over, more about folk than could be hoped for. I see where getting the likes of Frank Harte lately (welcome aboard), Louie Killen lurkes about from time to time, Art's been a steady (sorry you're hooked, but it's nice to have the company), Abbey Sale's been out there knocking but won't come in, yet, come in Abbey, you're as appreciated as much in here as you were on the newsgroup. So we have in here from the great to the green & all as pleasast as pie & drinking from the same trough, it's as good as a festival that just keeps going on without the slightest hint of fatigue. Thankfully, Barry

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Jaxon
Date: 05 May 98 - 01:29 PM

The music and the people are what keep me coming back. This is the closest I'll probably ever come to a chat room. I can think of no other place that you can get the personal level of help that the Mudact provides. My real name is Jack Murray and I live in Franklin, Ma.. Because I'm close to Boston and Cambridge I'm not isolated musically but you never have too many friends in the music world.
Jack

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Harald
Date: 05 May 98 - 02:00 PM

I really don´t know when and why I found mudcat. But I did. Never liked discussion forums with their answer threads spreaded up like branches on a tree. I never found what I looked for and sometimes even was disgusted by the style used there. So what a luck when I came across mudcat. From the first minute I liked it not only for getting new lyrics, but for the friendly and very amicable athmosphere here.
That´s why I came back everyday I was at work :-)
Alice, you´re absolutely right. I never thought, a computer could be helpful in playing music, but it really is !
The problem at my place is: Only few are making music, and even fewer like folk. So to whom talk about topics like bodhrán making or where Spancil Hill is.

Most interesting are all the stories behind lyrics. All the stuff added by someone after lyrics were submitted and the thread seemed to be finished. Oh man, the evening I read the boolavogue-thread I really took out my Ireland maps and started making plans about the next trip to Ireland.
All that additional information about songs is also very useful for us for our performances. Songs are worth the double for listeners if they know what the songs are about - and that´s the same for me. Don´t know why, but we added Leaving Nancy to our repertoire now that we know, he sings about his mother.
Well, I don´t intend to write down the story of my life, but just felt to let you know that I feel like lots of you who wrote similar notes above, and that I´m glad to be part of the mudcat community.

All the best for you all, Harald from Berlin, Germany

(Just because Art asked: I´m the man in the middle , who sings hey doo wa diddle (no Manfred, too un-folky, better: the one who plays the fiddle...

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Pete M
Date: 05 May 98 - 08:03 PM

Wonderful knowledge base, stimulating conversation, shared interest and *friends* - what more could you want?

Pete Matcham (Pete M)

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From:
Date: 05 May 98 - 10:44 PM

Because there's a there here. To paraphrase that famous folkie, Gertrude Stein.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: alison
Date: 06 May 98 - 07:00 AM

Hi,

Like may of the rest of you I was doing a search for lyrics and discovered the database first. Then I put in a request for an odd song about "being flagellated by an octopus.".... needless to say I got some sick replies and I've been hooked ever since.

I have a confession to make....... it was me who introduced Alan of Oz to mudcat too. Poor guy's hooked too!!

I'm off on holiday for a few weeks. See you all when I get back.

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Grubby
Date: 06 May 98 - 07:58 AM

Like most of you I came for the songs and stayed for the people (Thats a great description Bert). My first thread was under the title "can anybody sing" under the name of Pete but have had to change due to all the Petes out there. I was wrapped in the positive and totally supportive comments that came forward in that thread and as a consequence I have taken up this singing thing with renewed confidence. A fair way to go yet mind you, but I thank you all for giving me the extra incentive I needed to get started. I visit the site every day but confess to being more of a lurker than a regular participant but I hope to change that. I'm a mudcatter for good now. Cheers Grubby

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 06 May 98 - 12:20 PM

I first heard about Digital Tradition from Dick Greenhouse himself, at a house hoot. (The man is a walking encyclopedia of folk music, not to mention a gifted musician). He was passing out copies on diskettes and looking for contributions to the database. He said that it was also on the internet, but at that time, access was not very widespread and connect time was expensive.

A couple of years later, when I got internet access, I decided to check out the online version to see if any of my songs made it to the database. (34 did, if I search on BJS. Have almost 300 in my Shaw Family Songbook, and need to get them to him someday). While I was wandering around the web site, I discovered the forum, and the addiction began.

What a great music resource, interesting and knowledgeable people from all over the world, and even a few funny ones! And such a well-designed discussion base. I usually check it out every day. My main interest is bluegrass, although I also like classical (chamber music especially, which is similar in many ways to bluegrass) folk, opera and old-timey music.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bill D
Date: 06 May 98 - 06:13 PM

Well, as I mentioned once before, I got to sit in a room here in the Wash. D.C. area and watch this thing get created! Two people with notebooks sitting comparing notes and wishing for a better way decided to start putting their stuff on floppies...and Voila! Le' Database!...and last weekend I spent a weekend in the woods with them..Susan of DT, Dennis Cook, Dick Greenhaus, and a number of others...Bruce O, Ferrara(who just happens to be married to me),..and several others who confessed to using the database and lurking. I can't leave it alone...it provides me ideas for sings...updates my failing memory, allows me a soapbox for cherished opinions, and gives me a window into the lives of so many nice people!

And Art Thieme...I am one of the many who has stood and talked and joked with YOU after concerts and workshops, etc...(here in D.C., at Winfield, KS, at the Red Fox in Bethesda, MD.) You might even find my face vaguely familar... I am Bill Day [[e-mail]] and I have been singing songs and telling jokes I got from you for years...*grin*--"Vodka, tomato juice, and jello..= bloodclot"

quite a bunch we have here...and with Max making this the 'sine qua non' of Bulletin Boards, it will be a real force in the future of sharing this kind of music!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 98 - 06:28 PM

....besides, this may be the only English-speaking place on the Internet where one is likely to find the French word voilà spelled correctly (but isn't there an accent on the last letter, Bill?).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Eliot Greene
Date: 06 May 98 - 07:02 PM

So many genuinely helpful folks...this place is a joy!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 May 98 - 08:49 PM

Bill, Grand times in DC for certain. Glad you enjoyed the jokes & tales. (I just put one at Demise o' Folk 2.)

Strange, I was serious beyond belief until Utah P. showed me that the jokelore tradition was a good way to bring folks who wouldn't generally listen to the things I cared so much about--serious folksongs about real life where many die--to a place where they were receptive and liking it. Utah could get Newt to sing along on "Dump The Bosses Off Your Back" and enjoy himself. My idea was to make it sound like I'd just thought of the line at that moment. But it was ALL to push the songs out front. The songs I had were the antiques in my shop; the humor just the paint on the walls!

Pardon me for the digression from a thread I started! Hate it when that happens--but can't stop myself. Maybe we should have a jokelore thread.

Oh, vodka & Milk Of Magnesia= a Phillips screwdriver!! What better way to get into a serious song about drugs or alcohol? Makes it lighter but the stuff gets said and heard more receptively. Made the guy who hired me happy as folks weren't walking out o' his bar -- and might be they'd come back.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bill D
Date: 06 May 98 - 10:50 PM

Joe...I'm SURE you are right, but my French barely gets beyond Chevrolet Coupe'

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 98 - 11:14 PM

Yeah, Bill - but everywhere else, it seems that people think "viola" is a French interjection. Hereabouts, we know it's one of them there big fiddles. I figured you knew what you were talkin' about, but just didn't have the key to do the accent.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: judy
Date: 07 May 98 - 12:59 AM

Love the people and the conversation about the music I love. When I first came on (Sept 97) I used to read every thread AND reply to every other one (or so it seemed). Sadly I soon found there was not enough time for that. I miss it too, because even if the topic of the thread didn't interest me, I'd find the conversation so interesting. So now I come and lurk more and contribute when I can.

Max, there's no other place where it's so easy to read the threads. I open each one into its own window and disconnect to read them. AND they're all still there so you can search and refer to them!! Love it!

The database: what can I say, it's the best! (and getting better)(new Mac version soon?)

enjoy!
judy

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Pete M
Date: 07 May 98 - 04:37 PM

Joe, thats a perfect example of what makes this site so good. The vision you conjured up of violas springing into existence in mid air all over the place at every appropriate declamation made my day. Perhaps there is life in the steady state theory after all - Hoyle et al just need to get enough Frenchmen together in one place (say 10 to power 5 per cubic parsec) all saying "viola" at once and they all become repulsive (one of Bills' tongue in cheek emoticons). Sorry but I couldn't resist having a dig.

Pete M

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bill D
Date: 07 May 98 - 05:48 PM

Pete--Reminds me of the (largely)French movement of a number of years ago called 'Pataphysics'...a sort of neo-surrealistic literary group which included cosmological speculation in their essays.... "God is the tangential point between Zero and infinity"...and "Pataphysics is as far beyond Metaphysics as Metaphysics is beyond Physics....in one direction or another" I hope no Frenchmen read this...they might just try your suggestion!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: JB3
Date: 10 May 98 - 05:42 AM

i used to have to wait until a festival or dance-week to get all-hepped-up again about traditional music. Now I find the same energy from Mudcat. A longtime singer and collector of traditional songs (My great-grandmother was a folk-singer in Kentucky), there are always bits and pieces of songs that I'm looking for and so many of them are in the database! Thank you Max et al!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Kyra
Date: 10 May 98 - 09:22 PM

I suppose it says something for Mudcat that I spent a lot of time here over the summer, got caught up in school stuff, and am now gravitating back here. (by the way, hi! It's Kiwi, remember me? I'm back!)

I guess I come because it's a chance to talk about one of my favorite passions, music, with fun, helpful people; it's a chance to trade new songs, new lyrics, old classics, and funny stories.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bill D
Date: 10 May 98 - 11:52 PM

Kiwi!! sure...I wondered where you had gone...(they always return to the scene of the ...uh....anyway...welcome back!)

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Sheye
Date: 11 May 98 - 12:21 AM

Hey Kiwi! Welcome back - we missed you.

Ok, now I'm hitting bizarre. When I first got internet a few years ago, I dropped by a few chat spots and didn't hang around for long. Drivel, mostly, and people checking to see who was and wasn't on line. Not my speed. But at the risk of this message being chatty, I really did miss ya, girl.

Another voice that's been missing is Shula's. Wonder what she's up to...

BTW, It was me that posted the lyrics to Sweet Violets, but the sheet music is in a piano bench in a house I haven't been in for some eight years. If I ever make it back, I'll be sure to pick it up.

Why do we gravitate to the Mudcat? Because we care.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 11 May 98 - 06:02 AM

Hello Kiwi-- Glad you're back. Hope your school year was a good one, marching band and all.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 98 - 10:59 AM

Sheye....Shula lives near us...got a note several weeks ago thanking us for a tape we sent...said she just had not been well enough to chat. I know we all hope that she is able to beat this medical problem and be back with us...if thoughts would do it, she'd be here now!!!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 May 98 - 11:26 AM

Kyra (Kiwi)---Am newly on line recently & it's good to meet you.Here's hoping the medical crap subsides SOON. I do know about that crud lately -- at least my portion. Yes, be well!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 May 98 - 04:27 PM

I had begun to think that there were hardly any people left who gave a damn about folk songs. I had found myself singing the same songs over and over with nothing new to add to the list. Didn't really have much input. I searched out a bunch of written sources. But most had either songs which were played to death in the 60's or songs which nobody ever heard of - and with good reason. I stumbled into the Mudcat about a month ago starving and thirsty for a taste of good folk music. After spending a few hours glued to the database and wearing out my "print" button, I was happily exhausted. I had found songs that I had long ago forgotten, songs I had always meant to learn, and songs that I didn't think anyone else had ever heard of. I found long lost lyrics and verses that I didn't know existed. And parodies...don't get me started!

I felt renewed. Reborn. What a place! I collared anyone who would listen and told them about my newly found goldmine! I played new stuff until my fingers were raw.

Then, I found the good stuff. The threads, the comments, the personal observations, the histories! The people! My thanks not only to Max and company but also to all of you who contribute so much to make this a comfortable place to drop in and "set aspell".

I am Allan Clark. I used to do a little singing in the D.C. area, Great Falls, Montana, and Harrisonburg, Virginia. Not a whole lot, but enough to have fun. I live in Charlottesville, Virginia now but have pretty much kept my light under a bushell for quite a while now.Of course, with all the new material I have gleaned from MC, I might get out a little more soon.

Being here at Mudcat is sort of like sitting in my living room with a few other friends. We sing if we're of a mind to. We laugh and joke. Swap stories and lies; and pass on some bits of good information when the ocassion arises. Who could ask for better than this?

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 98 - 05:49 PM

Allan...if anything might lure you back to DC for a day, it might be this...don't know if you ever saw it, but it is in 2 1/2 weeks....and Charlottesville is only 2-3 hours)

Sunday, May 31, 1998 Washington Folk Festival at Glen Echo, MD free

Presented by the Folklore Society of Greater Washington in cooperation with the National Park Service, the Washington Folk Festival is a free, two day event full of concerts, dances, crafts and stories. The Washington Folk Festival highlights the amazing cultural diversity of the Washington area by featuring more than 450 local artists representing more than 30 countries as well as many of our own folk traditions.

also Open Sings every month..check the web page here

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 11 May 98 - 06:50 PM

I've always felt that true community is born of common interests, nurtured by mutual respect and bears the fruit of genuine affection. I'm grateful to be a part of just such a community here at the Mudcat.

My thanks to you all, past, present and yet to arrive.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Pete M
Date: 11 May 98 - 07:30 PM

Kyra, glad to see there's someone else from NZ. I was beging to think I was the only one prepared to admit it!

Pete M

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Kyra
Date: 11 May 98 - 10:01 PM

Thank you Bill D, Bill, and everyone else for welcoming me back. Yes, I can't help but return to the scene of the.. um, nevermind. >:)

Pleased to meet you, Art.

Um, psst. Pete. I have a little secret to impart. I'm not from NZ, I'm from NJ (New Jersey). Kiwi is and has been my nickname for several years, acquired during the course of summercamp from a counselor-friend. I don't even remember why.

Anyway.. it's good to be back!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Susan from California
Date: 11 May 98 - 11:06 PM

Kiwi-

Is school already over in NJ? That's where i grew up, and we never finished until mid-July! I came to Mudcat to find acurate lyrics, and hung around for the fun (and to paraphrase Bert or Art or one of those guys) and the fun people. Like Kiwi I have been very busy with school this semester and am looking forward to Wednesday (the 21st ?) when the last final is written, the last presentation presented and the last paper put to rest. Then I get to do the jury duty that I have begged out of because of classes.

But I will have more time for Mudcat even when I am fulfilling my civic responsibilities. Yippee!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Largo
Date: 12 May 98 - 08:49 AM

Why we gravitate to Mudcat?

I've composed a short answer of msgs up there; " ..I came for the database...by an accident ...and stayed for the people...by an incident..."

I LIKE the place, nice people, nice threads, ...

Cheers, Largo

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Nora
Date: 12 May 98 - 11:04 AM

Yes of course it was the database that sucked me in... I am a folk music geek, and I am just starting to try singing. I'm giving myself about 6 more months to prepare a short performance, so I've been searching for words and music. I love finding multiple versions of things. I can be pretty fast and loose about my own revisions as well: Folk music wants to be free.

But, like the rest of y'all, it's the rest of the Mudcat scene that is holding my attention now. I really appreciate the organization of the whole forum and the absence of truly superfluous material and spam. Thanks to those who organize and maintain this site.

I've been using computers and the internet for years for work, but this is the first time I've found something that truly engages my personal attention. There is a kind of accountability in this group that I don't find in others. It's not merely a place to pee on the wall and proclaim your knowledge.

I have a number of other music-geek friends and we spend a fair amount of time sitting around talking about music [incidentally I'm kind of distressed to read about the demise of folk music in another thread; I had no idea it was going under], and as a sometime radio programmer I usually try to make a point of knowing what's out there recording-wise, but this place is so full of interesting people and information, I can't stop coming back for more.

Nora Streed Winston-Salem, NC, USA

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: tom a.
Date: 12 May 98 - 03:27 PM

its cool

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Mandocookie
Date: 12 May 98 - 03:36 PM

I gravitated to Mudcat to figure out who knew the chords to My Walking Shoes Don't Fit Me Anymore...without much luck. I am still shoeless....any help?

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 12 May 98 - 04:35 PM

It has been quite a while since I played that piece. As I recall we performed it as a basic three-chord piece. If you're working out of B, your chords would be B, E, F#. The chord changes and phrasing are fairly standard.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Allan C.
Date: 13 May 98 - 08:06 AM

If you take a moment to look at the thread I posted about Evolution Mama, you'll see yet another great reason why we are here. I had information on my request in no more than FOUR minutes! You just can't beat it!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Alice
Date: 13 May 98 - 01:17 PM

But, Allan, unfortunately you don't have the lyrics yet!! I got out the record and played it, but couldn't make out a couple of garbled words. I was hoping someone else would post it. I'll give it another day, and if not, I will transcribe them with '----' for the words I can't understand.

;-> alice

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Kiwi
Date: 28 May 98 - 05:41 PM

Susan From California- Sorry for the delay in replying. No, school lets out in almost exactly three weeks. Finals start in about 9 school days, and I'm up to my eyebrows in senior projects to finish, finals to study for, a lit mag to send to the publisher, and all kinds of other stuff that detracts from my just enjoying myself and hanging out on here. :)

Sla/n, Kiwi

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: wolfz
Date: 29 May 98 - 05:44 AM

i feel like i have found another music family that i can join that has world wide membership.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: BK
Date: 01 Jun 98 - 10:21 PM

A little late, but here goes:

First the DT installed from 5.25" floppies on my old 8088... and years later, the Internet... like many, I came for the DT database, but have been blown away by the intellectual quality - and more yet by the wonderful personal qualitites - of the people. This was my first place on the Internet to hang around, even if I do "lurk" a lot, due to time constraints. It spoiled me both for the people and for the user-friendliness of the site.

I am on another Internet (professional) forum where many participants have advanced degrees and the level of intellectual discourse there often does not compare favorably w/here, let alone the friendliness.

This place really spoils us. It's fabulous.. Hats off to the wonderful gang that made this happen and keep the site workin' and also to the larger wonderful gang that keep the interaction workin'! ie, all of YOU!

You folks are the icing on the cake, the cat's meow, the flat-out best!! Thank you all for sharing yourselves your experiences, stories, ideas, feelings (and often encyclopedic knowledge!) about music, and all the things that naturally spin off from that sharing...

Folk music -however we may define it- forever!

Cheers, BK

BTW: it's really Buzz Keiper; the "nom d'mudcat" is due I'm such a poor/uncomfortable typist, it's easier than typing the whole thing; yes "Buzz" is my "real" name - the only one my folks ever called me - from infancy on, long before the astronaut, though it is not the one they wrote on my birth certificate but never, ever, (perhaps thankfully) , called me.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jun 98 - 01:45 AM

Somebody started a new thread on this subject here, and this one's getting kinda full. Let's not post any more messages here, and move the discussion to the new thread.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Alice
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 03:34 PM

refreshing to bring back for newcomers...

alice

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Malena
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 03:46 PM

hey Alice,

this must be your refreshing-day!

Daniel

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Craig
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 08:01 PM

I confess! I was out looking for some good Sea Shanties (Chanties) and wound up here. Good food, good people, good conversation. I lurk every chance I can and I ain't afraid to say so.

Craig

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Ritchie
Date: 20 Oct 98 - 04:51 AM

Well now,

I'm a newcomer to the web and all its mysteries, in fact I can get excited just looking at a digital watch and wonder how?

But what the Mudcat has done for me is to re-kindle my belief in music for musics' sake, either playing or listening to it!

I am even looking forward to going to all types of live music gigs in the area, like in the old days...damn it infact I'm starting to feel young again.

Thanks Mudcatters ....but I still want my Hamish Imlach lyrics and when I get them ...boy am I'm gonna sing..!!

love and happiness

Ritchie

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Zorro
Date: 20 Oct 98 - 08:12 AM

A man much wiser than I told me once that a person will become a part of and remain a part of any association where either; he/she feels he/she is contributing to or where he / she feels he/she is benefiting. (church, marriage, service club, friendship, etc, etc.) The mudcat allows us to do both as much as we want. THANKS MUDCAT!

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 06:57 AM

its helped me to access piles more new folkie fiends all over the plaice [& i've even met some of 'em by now!]

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From:
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:02 AM

All of the above.

Thanks for bringing this thread back.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: MC Fat
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:37 AM

Sorry to hear about your piles Mr Happy.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:48 AM

re:piles,

see:

thread.cfm?threadid=61723&messages=28

for details & advice.

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 09:00 AM

Now the stupidity starts

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 10:46 AM

Another kind and decent thread polluted by uncharitable remarks and dazed humor...

A

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 12:22 PM

It is one of the few ,relatively unmoderated, BBS's left. As a consumate troll - I get feed regularly in the Cafe - and most frequently by by members of long standing. Even getting threads deleted, (like the one encouraging drunken John in Hull to ignite his tube of superglue) provides feedback that someone's fur got rubbed the wrong way.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 12:27 PM

Gargoyle:

While I would accept "consumptive", "obdurate", "chronic", or even "obsessive", I hardly think your level of talent qualifies you as a "consummate" troll. You show promise, though...

A

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Frankham
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 02:46 PM

Art said that this was a great place to hang out. He was right!

Mudcat is one of the last few places left in this climate of the suppression of free speech that you can express what you think about folk music or politics or anything without fear of censure. It may be one of the last bastions of true democracy.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: WHY WE GRAVITATE TO MUDCAT!
From: Sooz
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 05:44 AM

I missed this thread first time around but have enjoyed reading it through now, agreeing with many of the sentiments. One thing occurs to me though - so many postings from people who are no longer active members. Where are they all?