The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version

Subject: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:29 AM

Now that Jim McLean visits this site...I loved to hear which version is your favorite, Jim. The first version I ever heard was the Corries and its still my favorite. Anyone else?

Nick

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Glencoe in the Digital Tradition.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Angus Campbell
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:37 AM

None of them, they are all shite.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Jim McLean
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:38 AM

There are so many versions, Nick, from Tommy Scott, Kenneth McKeller, Moira Anderson, Nigel Denver (the first to record it) but I think my favourite is Alastair McDonald on Scotland in Song, a Nevis LP, produced by myself in 1972! There's also a good pipe version by The Black Watch. Bill Garden's Scottish Orchestra did an instrumental version and the inlay card featured Glencoe on the cover. Inside, however, he chose to copyright it as Glen of Glens!! The PRS boys caught him, though. Cheers, Jim

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Tiger
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 10:02 AM

John McDermott, from the "Old Friends" album.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 04:24 AM

My own---sittin' in the bath-------

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:20 PM

can i get the words of the massacre of glencoe song

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:24 PM

guest - click on the link above that says "glencoe"

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 05:16 AM

OK Angus Campbell, but you know the old saying ' never trust a Campbell '
eric

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: MC Fat
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 05:23 AM

Sorry Jim but they caught me playing a banjo at the Runswick Bay Fund Raiser and a parody of your fine song is in the MC Fat comes out thread

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: weerover
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 05:24 AM

When Rory MacDonald owned the Clachaig inn in Glencoe there was a sign in the bar reading "No Campbells".

wr.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 05:32 AM

An old friend of mine once got conned into asking for a ' Glen Campbell ' whisky at the Clachaig Inn, he got a polite refusal.
eric

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 05:48 AM

I know a guy called Campbell...
that is his first name though so maybe he'd be OK!
I like the Corries version of the song to, It is very easy to sing.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 07 May 04 - 12:22 AM

The Campbells continue to betray us, here in British Columbia. Gordon Campbell is our premier. He's lied to us on every front. He befriended us at the last election and we took him in - now the massacre is playing out. We have people living on the streets, children tossed out of their foster homes, health services being sold off to the highest bidder, public highways and railroads are threatened with privatization. It's a cruel and heartless government!
Never trust a Campbell.

Mary

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Bonnie Prince Charlie
Date: 07 May 04 - 06:32 AM

Och... Get over it... I'm faer turnin in me grave, dinnae tar all the campbells wi' the same brush.

I'm off tae find ma favourite rendition o' the massacreee of glencoe, I've a grand ole version somewhere in me boat.

Tis surely a nice song!

Most finest regards

Chuckie

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Jim McLean
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:01 AM

I never wrote the song to be specifically anti Campbell, it's just that they were the final perpetrators of a vile deed, planned in Scotland (not by the Campbells) and sanctioned by King William.

Subject: Lyr Add: BALLAD OF GLENCOE
From:
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:15 PM

These are the words of the "Ballad of Glencoe":
Ballad of Glencoe
Chorus
Oh, cruel was the snow that sweeps Glencoe
And covers the grave o' Donald.
Oh, cruel was the foe that raped Glencoe
And murdered the house of MacDonald
They came in a blizzard, we offered them heat,
A roof for their heads, dry shoes for their feet.
We wined them and dined them, they ate of our meat
And they slept in the house of MacDonald.
Chorus
They came from Fort William with murder in mind.
The Campbell had orders King William had signed.
"Put all to the sword"- these words underlined,
"And leave none alive called MacDonald."
Chorus
They came in the night when the men were asleep,
This band of Argyles, through snow soft and deep,
Like murdering foxes amongst helpless sheep,
They slaughtered the house of MacDonald.
Chorus
Some died in their beds at the hand of the foe;
Some fled in the night and were lost in the snow;
Some lived to accuse him who struck the first blow;
But gone was the house of MacDonald.
Chorus

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,harris
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 06:14 PM

if the words to this don't make you weep, then you can't have a heart,

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 07:17 PM

I was in Glen Coe back in 1988, and I saw a sign on the lawn of a hotel that said "No dogs or Campbells" My wife's maiden name was Campbell.

What Scottish history I know tells me that it was mostly the doing of the Kings man, Dalrymple, who had the knife out for the MacDonalds. He ordered the massacre and the Campbells were only following orders. Where have we heard that before?

Didn't the MacDonalds attack the MacLeods while they were in church?

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 07:23 PM

Pride of the Campbells.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 07:57 PM

"I had a friend named Campbell, who used to rob, steal and gamble . . . " ~~ Jimmie Rodgers.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 07:11 AM

My favourite is the Corries. It brings back memories of a dissolute lifestyle for a few years in Edinburgh. Thanks for the song Jim!

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 07:51 AM

Let's face it, most songs about historical events play fast and loose with the truth.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 10:47 AM

Jim McLean? I always thought it was written by Alistair MacDonald!

My favourite version? Like other people, my own............though I haven't bothered singing it in years. The tune's a bit twee.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Scrump
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 02:31 PM

For my money, the version by Mad Jocks and Englishmen was hard to beat (anyone else remember them?)

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 07:27 PM

Mad Jocks and Englishmen? Thought I saw them about 2 years ago at Saltburn folk fest, but you talk as if they are long gone. Was this another band of the same name? ( Some of the members were a little mature, but one was an attractive young lady who may have been 'guesting' with them)

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Coreyanne
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 02:23 AM

I just heard this song for the first time on a CD by the St. Thomas Episcopal Pipe Band (from Houston, Texas - the five time Juvenile World Champions.) I really enojyed this version - Some girls singing it through, then violin, then the pipes, then onto "Here come the Campbells" and then a reprise of Glencoe on pipes. It's on their CD called "Impressions." I'm not sure of the legality of sharing a song over the internet, but if you want to hear it, there is a snippet on their website where you can order the CD - part of the Ballad and part of the Campbells are on the short excerpt.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: robinia
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 04:28 AM

Re "never trust a Campbell."   The longstanding anti-Campbell feeling is conveyed in a funny story about a Scot talking to another Scot (a Campbell) and spitting every time he says his name. When asked why, he explains that it's nothing personal, nothing to do with his friendship for this particular man, but "you spit whenever you say the name Campbell."
It's a nice distinction. Between the name, with its infamous historical baggage, and the man. I make a similar distinction between man and office, and it cuts both ways.   I may revile Mr. Bush, for instance, but I respect the office of president, and in the unlikely event of being invited to the White House would refrain from spitting.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: kendall
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 07:51 AM

I'd get far more pleasure out of declining the invitation than accepting it.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:58 AM

The MacDonalds did indeed attack and kill MacLeods while they were in church. It was in retaliation for the Eigg Cave Massacre in which about 400 MacDonald men women and children were killed by the MacLeods. Scotland's history runs dark with bloody fueds resulting in events much worse than the Glencoe Massacre. What sets that one aside was the treachery of the enemy posing as friends. There was an unwritten code that was violated and that was considered a greater crime than the killing.
Due to the Highland Clearances many descendants of these people landed on Cape Breton Island, and there is also a place named Glencoe here where both Cambell and MacDonald have live peacefully side by side.
                     Slainte,
                         Sandy

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 09:54 AM

I suppose I have no sense of humour or something, but I find anti-Campbell prejudice no more amusing or justified than prejudice against people on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc.

(Nothing against the song).

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Nig
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 11:58 AM

Favourite: Jenny Selfe on Like a Bird on the Wing.
I think there's a clip at http://www.pilgrimsall.org/magicalsounds/fr000106list.htm
Nig

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 02:21 PM

Meself makes a point but there is prejudice of some sort in the heart of all of us. My own prejudice is against fat-cat political leaders who rob the poor to help their wealthy friends. I really hate the bastards!
That being said the Campbells were the political power in the Scottish Highlands by appointment of the English king. Their leaders ruling legacy was not one of love for other clans. They were not a downtrodden group being bullied in any way, so goodnatured humour of today among their descendants ( most of whom have common bloodlines, MacDonald, MacLeod, MacLean, Campbell etc.) is not racist.
             Fear eile arson Eachain!
                         Sandy

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 02:31 PM

Would this 'English king' be a member of the Stuart dynasty by any chance?

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 04:10 PM

No, King Billy and his crew but the Stuarts themselves were English after Jame1/6 and sold Scotland out years earlier.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 04:27 PM

Sandy: Did I drive you to Glendale after a party, one morning?
I have been singing that song for years and got a lot of pleasure out of it. I've been asked to record it, a number of times (one is a number) but have, so far, resisted.
That's a great song, Jim. There could be a future in this business for the likes of yourself!

CRUACHAN!!


Jim

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 04:28 PM

So, if I understand it correctly, the moment James VI became James I he lost his Scottishness, and his son (born in Scotland) and grandson were therefore totally English. And, I gather, William III, a Dutchman, also became English the moment he arrived in Britain.
Funny old world, isn't it? Someday you must tell me about the McLeans - I'd hate to think there might be some English ones.

What would the world do without the English to criticise?

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 04:39 PM

Just by the way.
I have an awful habit of running a whole bunch of songs together, a medley, I suppose. It's a wee trick I learned in a pub one night when a fight broke out.
Anyway, it's a real nightmare for anybody playing along with me but I very often start the third set with; The Massacre of Glencoe then merge into Flower O' Scotland pick it up into Sound the Pibroch and from there I may take it to Maid of Fife, Johnny Lad, Killiecrankie
or any other tunes in "March" depending on how long I can hold onto the plectrum. I think it works really well. I even got asked back to one place but I was out and missed the phone call.
Thanks again, Jim. I've ridden you hard.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 04:52 PM

Ah Terry: James the sixth took the Crown from Edinburgh to London. One reason for this was that London was and remains a far more robust market centre and therefor a more appropriate setting for the head of state. Another sociological reason, lost to many, is that Edinburgh stunk. Literally! Was absolutely filthy. Raw sewage was thrown from the windows to the shouts of "Gardez Lou" (Edinburgh French) and festered there until the rains washed it down the gutters. It was not fit for a king.
And so, "To the Victor goes the spoils" we took over in London. Scotland won! No matter how many bards have written of the day that Scotland would finally succeed, it is an undeniable fact that we did and we buggered it up.
I think I explained it best when I wrote "A Parcel of Rogues".

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 05:35 PM

As a member of the oppressed majority, I can't argue with that, Jim Lad!

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 05:37 PM

No Jim, you didn't drive me from Glendale. I could make a guess that it was perhaps Sandy MacDonald who lives in that area and is a hell of a lot better guitar player than me.
Sorry Terry but I don't want to enter into a debate. Only trying to put context in the song being discussed.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 06:09 PM

Terry: The man who wrote the song that we're talking about is here. Why don't we take this opportunity to show a little appreciation for a tremendous piece of art.
You can get us all fired up, another time.
I'll enjoy that too!
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 06:10 PM

http://www.electricscotland.com/books/paterson/glencoe.htm

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 06:19 PM

With regards to King William's hand in this: He had no axe to grind with the MacDonalds and saw no need for the action taken.
He was, at most, indifferent to the plight of those who died and was guilty only of allowing an ambitious underling (whose name escapes me right now) to follow his own twisted agenda. I'm not actually sure that he knew of an intended massacre. Perhaps some of our scholars will set that straight.
Regardless, you're hearing this from one who was certainly not raised to defend the reputation of one Prince William of Orange but there you have it.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 07:51 PM

I recommend the book Glencoe by John Prebbles.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 09:20 PM

Who wrote it?
Quiet Saturday night, Meself?
Cheers from the wet coast.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 09:36 PM

Who wrote it? Um - I believe I heard someone say John Prebbles. He's an Anglo-Canuckian who for some reason became intrigued by Scottish history and wrote a series of non-fiction books on related themes. Very readable, packed with information, and sensible interpretation.

Here's a Wiki entry on him.

Yup, quiet Saturday night here in Pugwash. I've still got this !@#$ cold, so had to pass up an invite for supper and a friend's brother's band playing for the ski-bums in the Wentworth Valley ...

Cheers back atcha!

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:40 AM

Morning Jim Lad - I wasn't trying to get anyone 'fired up', just objecting to the inappropriate use of the term 'English.'

Re the song - I don't think it's a tremendous piece of art, but that's just my opinion/taste. I am very well aware of how popular it is/was and used to sing it in the early 70s, for two reasons. The first was that it amused me to sing songs about what people assume must be my ancestors (actually, my surname is Newfoundland-Irish) and the second was that I had a 'hit' on my hands. There are plenty of traditional English songs that I think are wonderful but I suspect audiences don't always share my enthusiasm. The Massacre of Glencoe always received generous applause, particularly when sung to audiences from outside of the folk club world.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: robinia
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 09:53 AM

Re "anti-Campbell prejudice"   -- The whole point of my story was separation of historical memory from ordinary human relations. In other words, "you spit when you say the name Campbell" DIDN'T mean that the spitting Scot had anything against this particular Campbell or indeed any living Campbell. It didn't mean that he was prejudiced "against Campbells" in the way that "myself" takes it--only, at least as I heard the story (a made up one, I suspect) that he remembered a historic betrayal of hospitality that has indeed clung to the name.

An impossible distinction? How would I like to have MY name reviled?

As a matter of fact, I vividly remember a singaround in a Highland pub where we started singing "The Rape of Glencoe" and a Campbell jumped up and loudly objected. Nobody was going to sing that scurrilous song in his presence. He was quite forceful about it too, rising to victimhood with boisterous theatricality.

Somehow, it was hard to see him as any more oppressed than the people of Banff, who 300 years ago "pit the clock an hour afore and hanged him [MacPherson] tae a tree." THAT's still remembered in scurrilous folksong too, still "held against" the town....

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 10:28 AM

I don't understand your position on this - you seem to be saying that nobody has a prejudice against Campbells, but if they do, it's okay ...

And, sorry, but I have known of Campbells being sneered at on the basis of the Glencoe massacre. I don't think it's right. Let bygones be bygones; let he who has never sinned, etc.

Subject: RE: The Massacre of Glencoe—Favorite Version
From: Jim Lad
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 12:15 PM

Actually, they never hanged Macpherson at all. The belligerent young man put the noose over his own head and jumped, to deprive them of the pleasure. Had he waited through the pomp and ceremony, as any condemned soul is obliged to do, he may well have received his eleventh hour reprieve. That was the point of the story.
Terry: I hadn't noticed the spelling of your name but I'll bet, I'd have picked up on the pronunciation, had we met.
Good to know that you found the song worthy of your performance.
Good Morning all from the Cool. Sunny Highlands of Vancouver Island.
Cheers
Jim