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Subject: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST,Paul Date: 31 Jul 02 - 04:28 PM I may be being slow on the uptake here. If so, apologies. Just been watching the Commonwealth Games, and was interested (OK, very pleased) to see that 'God Save the Queen' had been replaced by 'Land of Hope and Glory' as the winning anthem for the English. Is this a new reality, or have I been asleep for too long? Paul |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST,Les B Date: 31 Jul 02 - 04:39 PM As far as I am aware, 'Land of hope & Glory' has been used as the English anthem for some time. That silly nursery rhyme 'God save the Queen' is used as the National Amthem for Great Britain & N Ireland. Cheers Les |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST,Paul Date: 31 Jul 02 - 04:43 PM The silly nursery rhyme was used at the World Cup, and still is for Rugby internationals. I was hoping that there'd been a sea change. Perhaps not Paul |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:45 PM The national anthem is indeed silly, but the "Land of Hope and Glory" lyrics set to Elgar's tune are surely equally silly? Both would be monstrous if anyone took them seriously. Paul's question exposes some peculiar anomolies. Why is it that England, Scotland, etc, which have no more status in international law than, say, Bavaria, are allowed to compete in some arenas as though they were sovereign states? Why not, say, California, which is usually reckoned to be about the sixth biggest economy in the world? In the Olympics, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland field a mere one team between them, under the collective title of "Great Britain". This title takes no account of Northern Ireland, which in international law belongs to the sovereign state known as the UK (shorthand for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Whether NI is counted in is not entirely academic - Mary Peters from that province, for instance, earned "Great Britain" Olympic gold, and NI has been known to win distinction for GB in (surprise surprise) some of the shooting disciplines. I have heard that the UK has been disallowed from entering as one combined team in one of the internatial competitions (maybe the World Cup?), but I have never checked this out. But back to the anthems. My guess is that there's some unwritten code whereby England uses GSTQ as its first-choice anthem, but falls back on LOHAG if any of the other UK countries are involved. Scotland's equivalent second choice is Flower of Scotland, and Wales has Land of My Fathers (both, for my money, streets ahead of GSTQ and LOHAG). I can't remember Northern Ireland's, which is embarrassing, since I lived there for many years.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Les from Hull Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:50 PM There are also teams from Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man. Anyone care to guess what will be played if any of these teams win a gold? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Roughyed Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:53 PM Who was it who described 'God Save the Queen' as a prayer to someone who doesn't exist about someone who should not exist? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: sponge Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:53 PM isn't GSTQ _technically_ the national anthem of all empire nations (now commonwealth)??? and hence rather silly to have a the victory tune at the commonwealth games....so alternatives have to be found - LOHAG, FoS, LOTF and the rest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST Date: 31 Jul 02 - 06:06 PM 'Land of Hope and Glory'is OK. Sure, it sings about how wondeful we are (were). But isn't that what national anthems should be about? It must beat 'Flower of Scotland' A dreary tune that commemorates the one time that the Scots beat the English. The fact that it was 800 years ago, doesn't appear to matter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Jul 02 - 06:14 PM Elgar, who wrote the tune, detested the words put to it. And Elgar was not exactly a trendy lefty.
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST,JKJ Date: 31 Jul 02 - 06:17 PM McGrath, Can you tell us more about Elgar's politics? I'd be curious to hear JKJ |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: greg stephens Date: 31 Jul 02 - 06:36 PM It's a grand tune, but the words are a bit..odd?OK ironically once a year at the Proms, but every time we win a medal? "Wider still and wider, shall her bounds be set" isn't it? Now we've got shot of Wales and Scotland, are we going to have another crack at the old Empire bit? What'll we have this time, same old places? Be nice to own America and Jamaica for the music, I suppose.Bit of Africa as well. Actually, I think a completely fresh start would be more fun.Maybe Uzbekistan, always looks interesting in magazines. And more Polynesia and Indonesia, I love islands. And as a lot of Foreign is a bit hot for me, I think Norway might suit. They came here last time round, maybe it's our turn for the away game. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Joe_F Date: 31 Jul 02 - 06:43 PM I wish _I_ had learned it in the nursery! Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks. On Thee our hopes we fix: God save us all! ] I dutifully learned the whole thing while I was going over on the Queen Elizabeth in 1958, and I didn't get a chance to sing it once. In Scotland, at the time, they _ran_ out of the cinema so that they wouldn't have to hear a few bars of it played at the end. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST Date: 31 Jul 02 - 07:12 PM LOL, Greg. I think we shoud aim for the USA, couldn't possibly do worse than the Bush boy |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 31 Jul 02 - 07:15 PM May I invite you all to peruse One of my better threads about the English National Anthem Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 31 Jul 02 - 07:17 PM May I invite you all to peruse One of my better threads regarding the English National Anthem. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST Date: 31 Jul 02 - 07:20 PM One of my better 'posts' surely? Can't see how you can claim ownershif of a thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 31 Jul 02 - 07:29 PM Wasn't really claiming ownershif, GUEST, just giving forewarning that I had initiated the thread ... Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Ian Darby Date: 31 Jul 02 - 09:37 PM Billy Connolly said we should adopt the theme from 'The Archers' as a national anthem. While we're at it, why don't we consider 'Emmerdale Farm' and 'Coronation Street'? 'Jerusalem' would do it for me. I think we should lock up Ashley Hutchings, John Kirkpatrick, and Richard Thompson in a room together until they come up with something.
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 31 Jul 02 - 10:53 PM It was nice to see England win the gold medal for ping-pong yesterday, a very exiting match.john |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Blackcatter Date: 31 Jul 02 - 11:36 PM " I think we should lock up Ashley Hutchings, John Kirkpatrick, and Richard Thompson in a room together until they come up with something." Maybe that's the next Big Brother... I haven't checked, but there's probably been at least one thread on best and worst National Anthems around here. I know I don't particularly care for the Star Spangled Banner - hell, any song title with the word "spangled" sucks to begin with. What say you all - best and worst national anthems? pax yall |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: IanC Date: 01 Aug 02 - 04:55 AM If anyone had listened carefully, you would have heard that no-one is playing National Anthems at The Commonwealth Games. They're playing "The Victory Anthem of ...". :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Brakn Date: 01 Aug 02 - 04:58 AM Back to the Commomwealth Games Is the flag that is flown for NI the Ulster flag. If so, how can that be? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Pied Piper Date: 01 Aug 02 - 07:46 AM Jerusalem, most definately.PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Les from Hull Date: 01 Aug 02 - 09:13 AM That's the Northern Ireland flag. Ulster's flag is a red cross on a yellow background with the red hand on a white shield in the middle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Alio Date: 01 Aug 02 - 09:52 AM You lot are so cynical!! I think Land of Hope and Glory is really emotive. Everytime it's been played at the Games I've joined in lustily!! (At least I know the words, unlike the athletes!) Ali |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST,Den at work Date: 01 Aug 02 - 09:52 AM I agree Ian Jerusalem is a beautiful song. I think the NI anthem should be I'll tell me Ma. Now that would get your toes tapping on the winners pedestal or whatever you call that thing that they stand on to receive their medals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Mary Humphreys Date: 01 Aug 02 - 12:45 PM I believe that Guernsey has its own anthem - ' Sarnia cheri' or something like. Sarnia is the local patois name for Guernsey. I used to have relatives over there and they are just as proud of their independence as Wales or Scotland. I was kept in the dark about the Jersey anthem, as the Guernsey and Jersey folk are as great rivals as the Yorkshire folk and Lancastrians! |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST Date: 01 Aug 02 - 02:00 PM Den that`s a cracker, I will second you on "I`ll tell me ma". Sung by Boxcar Willie McCrae. And they won a gold for shooting, how bloody strange. Pistol Pete. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Joe_F Date: 01 Aug 02 - 07:39 PM Surely Flanders & Swann's attack on this problem deserves serious consideration: The English, the English, the English are best: I wouldn't give twopence for all of the rest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Blackcatter Date: 02 Aug 02 - 12:51 AM N.I. anthem - Old Orange Flute - that way both sides can be pissed (mad, that is). Now the question is - if islands close to England have anthems, do the islands close to Scotland have them as well? And really, why IS it that when it comes to things like World Cup, that the parts of the UK enter separate teams? pax yall |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: John O'L Date: 02 Aug 02 - 02:01 AM I think the Northern Irish use "Air of County Derry" as their national anthem, don't they? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Son of the Mill Date: 02 Aug 02 - 05:49 AM What Billy Connolly said was : The lyrics were ok,If anyone needed saving it was the queen & if anyone should do it, god would be the one. It was the tune from the Archers with the same lyrics to make it a more happy song. Cheers Mal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Pied Piper Date: 02 Aug 02 - 06:01 AM Britania waves the rules? PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: GUEST Date: 02 Aug 02 - 07:44 AM I fancy 'the wombles' for England's new victory anthem. But as for re-winning an empire I'm afraid those native chappies may not be so easily knocked off this time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: greg stephens Date: 02 Aug 02 - 12:56 PM As you say GUEST. We thank the Lord that we have got The Gatling gun, and they have not. Trouble is, we've sold'em a few since then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: Schantieman Date: 02 Aug 02 - 02:12 PM 'Jerusalem' gets my vote. BUT it's such a good song that I always think it runs out of verses before the end (if you see what I mean). It is also widely considered to be old-fashioned and jingoistic. How about this third verse which is a bit more modern and, I hope, just as singable?:
And shall the joy be thus confined? (c) 1998 S J Freedman
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Subject: RE: BS: New English 'national' anthem? From: beadie Date: 02 Aug 02 - 05:10 PM Fionn: Indeed, it is curious the way that some geographic regions of the Great Britain can compete as sovereigns, although this is not without analogue. In last year's Francophone Games (for ostensibly French-speaking nations)held in Canada, the Canadians were represented by separate teams from Canada (as a whole) and from Quebec (understandably) and New Brunswick. While this was a major source of amusement for a visiting Yank like me, I got an even bigger kick out of watching the progress of the French-speaking team from Poland. |
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