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Subject: English National Anthem From: Murray MacLeod Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:18 AM Since the thread on alternative American anthems created such a response, let's see if we can do something similar for the British Isles. I have long been of the opinion that Andy M Stewart's "Rambling Rover" should be the National Anthem of Scotland, but in the (unlikely) event of total independence for the Celtic countries, England is going to need a new National Anthem as well. I propose Derek Brimstone's stirring song should be adopted
I'm a fine young Englishman,
Now the English are the best
These are Derek's omly two verses. Some years ago I took the liberty, with his permission, of composing a middle verse which goes like this:
You can see me on the street I feel this song encapsulates the spirit of the modern Englishman in a way which "God Save the Queen" somehow fails to do ................... Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Snuffy Date: 08 Mar 01 - 09:35 AM Isn't that a bit sexist, Murray? You need something for the ladettes to sing too. How about Les Barker's "Tracy Likes Pina Colada" to the tune of the Dambusters March - everyone will know the tune at least. From memory the chorus goes something like:
Tracy likes pina colada Couldn't find it in the DT, but I've got it in one of Les' books at home if anyone wants the whole thing. Wassail! V |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: A Wandering Minstrel Date: 08 Mar 01 - 09:38 AM Billy Conollys proposition that we should exchange "The Archers" theme for the national anthem is still worth considering. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Peter Kasin Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:11 AM Murray, would you go for "A Man's A Man For A' That" as a possible national anthem for Scotland? I heard when it was sung at the opening of the Scottish parliament, it had a powerful effect on everyone present. The MP's were crying there eyes out. A magnificent song, worthy of N. anthem status, from my viewpoint from across the pond. -chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Sorcha Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:31 AM Current lyrics are sappy, and tune is schmaltzy, but it is easy to sing......"The Maple Leaf" was almost as bad as Star Spangled Banner.......but I don't have any better suggestions for the British.......uuhhhhh, UK, anthem. Not sure either the UK or the US could deal with changing Anthems now....... |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Peter Kasin Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:51 AM Probably not, Sorcha. Pretty sacred cows, those anthems. It's nice to fantasize, though, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: English Jon Date: 09 Mar 01 - 03:19 AM Gilbert and Sullivan came up with the suitably silly "he is an Englishman": For he himself has said it And it's greatly to his credit That he is an Englishman, He is an Englishman. For he might have been a Russian, A French or Turk or Prussian, Or perhaps Italian, Or perhaps Italian... But in spite of all temptations To belong to other nations He remains an Englishman He remains an Englishman. Etc... Then there's "The English are Best" by Flanders and Swan... "The English, the English, The English are Best I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest." But then, I don't think anyone in England is bothered about wearing national dress? Anyone out there wear Morris kit to work? So why bother with a national song? ;) English Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: alison Date: 09 Mar 01 - 03:25 AM I think someone should write words to the "Match of the Day" theme... it's catchy... everyone in the UK knows it..... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Steve Parkes Date: 09 Mar 01 - 03:43 AM English John we all wear the English National Costume: t-shirt, jeans & trainers! I'm a bit old-fashioned (well, I'm entitled at my age), and wear flannels instead of jeans. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: MikeofNorthumbria Date: 09 Mar 01 - 06:39 AM For several years, English rugby supporters have used 'Swing Low, Sweet Chariot' as their unofficial anthem. It's got a great chorus, but the verses are uninspiring, and anyhow, most people can't remember them. So how about borrowing a couple of verses from Mr W Blake, and inserting them between the choruses of 'Swing Low' , like this:
Swing low, sweet chariot: coming for to carry me home (2X)
Bring me my bow of burning gold; bring me my arrows of desire
Swing low, sweet chariot: coming for to carry me home (2X)
I shall not cease from mental fight, nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Swing low, sweet chariot: coming for to carry me home (2X) It might be worth a try ... Wassail |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Mr Red Date: 09 Mar 01 - 07:54 AM Sorcha An English Anthem would not relate the Celtic fringes, not even Cornwall I suspect. As a Staffordshire man I am proud to "English" until I hear "Match of the Day" and what the footie crowd may have got up to, in some far off foreign field! Alison "Match of the Day" should be struck! Football is not always Englands Glory. Game yes, once in 1966. Fans er.. not in my name. Having said that I have no obviuos suggestions for an English National Anthem. Whatever, it should be sung with a stiff upper lip and be ever so polite. Don't you know? |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Steve Parkes Date: 09 Mar 01 - 09:50 AM Mr Red, are you South Staffs (like me) or North? I think we should have separate national anthems! |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: GUEST,JohnB Date: 09 Mar 01 - 12:40 PM Flanders and Swan do one entitled "The English". I only remember the chorus, The English the English the English are best, I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest. JohnB |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Les from Hull Date: 09 Mar 01 - 12:48 PM Presumably we've already got an English (and Welsh) National Anthem. Certainly we shouldn't use God Save the Queen for a UK national anthem with the verse in it that's so beastly about the Scots. Perhaps somebody would post the words to show the rest of the world. Any road, there's only one anthem and that's t'Anthem. (Holmfirth Anthem for the geographically challenged - those of you who live outside Yorkshire). It's even got stuff about 'fighting French and Spaniards' in it! What else do we need? The best thing about Holmfirth Anthem is not the fairly meaningless words, but the singability. You've got to be in the right place at the right time to experience it. Les |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Mr Red Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:34 PM Steve Parkes Akttewlly owr kid ar be Black country. Dead centre of civilisation - Wednesbury - the very dead centre. As Boswell said, black by day and red by night. Hence Black Country. So many foundaries - all gone. At least Stroud is clean. But it tay Wedgebury. Darlaston has a coughing shanty - I should know I wrote one. Wear am yo froom? |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:44 PM I'm a member of the S.N.P. I think that the English national anthem should be 'here's to you sweet lovely England' by the spinners. I think that it just somes up the country of England. I hope that one day you will get your own national anthem. There are some people here in Scotland think that the English national anthem is 'God save the Queen' because most not all but most English people sing it whenever England is playing any type of Sport. Well as I say good luck and lang may yer lum reek.
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Subject: Lyr Add: GOD SAVE THE QUEEN From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:55 PM For all of you, the real words to 'GOD SAVE THE QUEEN' are
1.
2.
3.
4. Then you wonder why some Scots don't like the song |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 09 Mar 01 - 04:33 PM I just remembered, when are some English people going to stop talking about the world cup in 1966. Every year since then all we get is the world cup in 1966. We know that you won in 1966, so we don't to reminded again, mind you they never mention 1967 when SCOTLAND BECAME THE UNOFFICAL WORLD CHAMPIONS, beating England 3-2. at Wembley. And in 1978 we Scots were in the world cup representing Britain. I know we were rubbish but at least we were there. And we qualfied for the world cup more times than England. 5 times in a row, and we got a trophy to prove it. Tom |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Dave Wynn Date: 09 Mar 01 - 05:35 PM Really busbitter...I am surprised that you admit to being a member of the S.N.P.....I wouldn't dream of admitting I am a paid up member of the B.N.P.....;-) Spot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: bill\sables Date: 09 Mar 01 - 06:38 PM As every one in Newcastle knows, when the Angles invaded England many years ago they sailed up the Tyne and disembarked at Newcastle. Now the acute Angles went North and settled in Scotland, the obtuse Angles went south and settled somewhere South of the Humber and became menbers of parlement, but the Right Angles stayed where they were on Tyneside and later invented the true National Anthem which is of course "The Blaydon Races" Bill |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Dave Wynn Date: 09 Mar 01 - 07:00 PM Or Cushie Butterfield Bill..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Lanfranc Date: 09 Mar 01 - 07:19 PM My vote goes to the Flanders and Swann song, but I suppose one would have to be more careful since a certain celebrated lady was condemned for taking the piss out of the Welsh on TV. Sod it, why should we, they don't scruple to denigrate the English! Racist, my arse! Better yet, let's do without a national anthem, or substitute John Lennon's "Imagine" or that earlier junkie, William Blake's stirring "Jerusalem". OK, it's the Parry tune that makes it, but standing in a tea chest to sing it need not be compulsory (pace Monty Python). "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 10 Mar 01 - 04:47 AM To spot, The B.N.P. are a Neo Nazi party were as the S.N.P. are a party for the freedom of Scotland and it's people no matter where they came from. Tom |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Hawker Date: 10 Mar 01 - 07:46 AM Mr. Red Hell NO! The Cornish already have their own National anthem (written by a Devon Man if you ever did!) TRELAWNEY Though those purists amongst you will protest that this is not true... he did admit in his scrawlings that he nicked the tune and chorus from an earlier popular folk song about Tinners As far as the UK National anthem goes ANYTHING (within reason) has GOT TO be better than the present one! Lucy |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: roopoo Date: 11 Mar 01 - 03:04 AM All other UK countries except England have their own anthems and use them except when a more general one is required. The English to my knowledge have never had one of their own, as is shown by any international sporting event. Not only that, the tune is also used across the pond ("My Country 'tis of Thee") so it is not just "ours". We should be ashamed that we've either been too arrogant or complacent to think of one! Now some might argue that the real English are the Welsh, but somehow I can't see "Land of My Fathers" being sung twice over at Twickenham! Other academics say that the nearest to Old English/Norse is spoken in Northumberland, which is about as unadulterated as you can get these days with the advent of "Estuary English". Unfortunately if you accept "Blaydon Races" it somehow wouldn't sound right in anything else except the original dialect. Personally I like the suggestion of "T'Anthem". It's not too long, and it's a damn good sing. It also "travels" into other regional accents reasonably well. Don't know how it'd sound played by the band of the Coldstream Guards though... Andrea
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Mr Red Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:42 AM I think the tune for the Lichtenstein National Anthem would be a good one to use. I think it was composed by Dr Thomas Arne. **BG** **snigger** Hands up those who know it......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Eric the Viking Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:43 AM 'ere- I should be careful wot yer say-ask Anne Robinson!!!! I think there should be an Anglo-Saxon/Viking anthem and bugger all the rest!! Don't want no bloody Normans singing any songs!! Last time that lot started they shot our 'Arold!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Gervase Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:42 AM I like the idea of the Holmfirth Anthem - but what about Cadgewith? Surely more appropriate to the English over the centuries - "for to rob and to plunder, that is our intent.." |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Gervase Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:47 AM ...to say nothing of "The Beauty of Kashmir". I'm sure I've had a rogan josh there, and it certainly sums up our national cuisine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: JeZeBeL Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:41 PM I agree with Bill. The only true national anthem has to be The Blaydon Races.....Not being a Geordie meself, except maybe after being accepted as an honorary one having done a yard of broon ale, I love the Blaydon Races.......... By the way Bill, do you know Byker Hill, as I cant remember the words, I always used to nick them off the wall in't'Cumberland Arms, eeeeee, them were the days.......... Emma xxx |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: roopoo Date: 13 Mar 01 - 01:58 AM Ooops! Eric, will you speak to me again? - my maiden name, although fairly common, is actually French (mediaeval or norman, pertaining to chaplains of chateaux - Larousse dictionary of French surnames). This is all tied in with the Irish side of me too! I hope there's enough of the Anglo-Saxon (Nottingham area, so it's possible) on my mother's side to redeem me! Anyway, if Harold hadn't had to shed some blood up at Stamford Bridge first and wear himself out, he probably wouldn't have been shot "on 'is 'orse, with 'is 'awk in 'is 'and!" I still think the Holmfirth Anthem is a good'un, although I must admit, the Cadgwith Anthem is a good sing too. Couldn't we somehow combine them: "To the streams in yonder mountains where the pratty flowers grow"? Andrea |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: roopoo Date: 13 Mar 01 - 03:28 AM Ok, so it's caves in the original, not streams, but you don't get many flowers growing in caves. Andrea |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: English Jon Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:02 AM This B.N.P, S.N.P. joke thing... Isn't Scotland part of Britain? Cheers, English Jon (Only trouble with Cadgwith anthem is no bugger can find the right key for it. My family regularly massacre it at parties) |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Steve Parkes Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:11 AM Mr Red -- sorry for the long delay, but that's what happens when you go home for the weekend. Right -- here's the CV: Born in Bloxwich (the old Maternity Hospital, in fact), brought up in Fullbrook, Walsall (about two years); Blakenall (near Blocco, not Blakenhall in 'Hampton), about six months; Beechdale (aka Gypsy Lane Estate), Leamore (by Walsall), about fifteen years; Sandymount, Highgate (back of the brewery), Walsall, about ten years (apart from a brief stay round the corner at Doveridge Place in Caldmore (pr. 'karma'!), sometime home of the poet Sir Henry Newbolt as a lad; then (after getting married, Aldridge, briefly; Walsall Wood, also briefly, then Stonnall for the last sixteen years. Not strictly Black Country (indeed, nearer Brownhills some of the time!). But I used to lie in bed as a small kid (and a big kid) watching the sky lit up like the fires of Hell from the cupola furnaces over Leamore Lane way, and listening to the trains shunting coal wagons at the Co-op coal depot to the north and the power station to the south. Somtimes I'd stay with my grandparents in Fullbrook and listen to the trains at Bescot marshalling yard, a mile down the road, spinning their wheels as they strained to pick up a string of trucks. It's a wonder I ever grew up into the fine athletic figure of a man I did, with all that pollution! Happy days ... maybe I should write a song about them? |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Mr Red Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:27 PM Steve Parks I wrote a song 'bout Wedgebury. Did it years agoo at the Brewers Droop. Three handkerchief jobbie. Lived in Kings Hill, school there (amongst others). Lived in Rushall nr the Silly Isles and on the Yew Tree. Bescot marshalling yard kept me awake many a night. Moved to Malvern - such a nicer place to get divorced from, don't you think? Now its Stoud and proud. Wrote songs about Walsall, 'Hampton, Darlo with varying degrees of quality. Hey folks are we boring you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Bill Robinson Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:02 PM My parents were Geordies from Durham.My dad was a railroader in the USA...I am looking for the lyrics to "The Little Red Caboose Behind the Train" I remember some of them from when I was little...Please email me at : sopwithcl:aol.com....thanks...Bill Robinson |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Steve Parkes Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:49 AM Bill, you want to start a new thread: that way, you get everybody's attention. Bore away, Mr Red! My mom sya when she was little (in the thirties) she used to gaze from her bedroom window (in the Pleck) at the two churches on top o' the bonk at Darlaston and think how Romantic it looked, and always planned to go there when she was big enough. I've been to Darlo, and I don't know what it was all over the pavements, but it wor gold! I'd be interested in your songs; I'd love to impress the folks in Bedford with my Roots! Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Wolfgang Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:54 AM Mr. Red, everyone in this thread knows the tune of the Lichtenstein national anthem. Maybe they don't know that they know it, but they do. You can go here for a midi of it. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Wolfgang Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:55 AM BTW, the tune of the Lichtenstein national anthem is often used in the southwest of Germany for carneval songs. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Wolfgang Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:57 AM new try for the link Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 14 Mar 01 - 09:33 AM English Jon, Scotland was forced to Join England in 1707 under the act of Union, the English government greased a lot of Scottish Lords in the Scottish government, that's the song Parcel of Rouges is all about, Scottish M.P's back taking back handers from the English counterparts. And that's why The S.N.P. want freedom for Scotland. When The duke of Hamilton went down to Westminster after the act of Union he wanted to Scotland's freedom back from the English. The S.N.P. members want Scotland to be a separate Country. Anyway we are a separate country from England, for example we have our own laws, our own eductional system, our own churches and our own money and now our own parliment as well, so how can you say that Scotland is a part of Britain. I hope that this makes it clear, as for the English national anthem should be The blaydon races. A good old Northern(English) song. Tom
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Dave Wynn Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:46 PM English Jon...Sorry you asked now?.... ....and why would a person from Scotland (now apparently not part of the union) therefore believe thay have valid input into selecting a national anthem for England...It would be the equivalent of an English person (like me) suggesting Scotland should adopt "johnny where's your troosers" as their anthem...I wouldn't dream of it!;o) Spot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Murray MacLeod Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:51 PM "Johnny Where's Your Troosers" ? Don't know it, but I would have no objection to "Donald Where's Your Troosers" as the Scottish National Anthem. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Dave Wynn Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:18 PM I must apologise for my last posting. I have just consulted my Penguin book of Folk Songs from Scotland and it is indeed "Donald" and not "Johnny" who has lost his trousers....see how easy it is to change a whole nations anthem with just a slip of the memory....Thanks for the correction Mr MacLeod. This could lead to all sorts of problems this memory lapse...we could end up with "Bristol Races" or "Moon spangled Banner"...frightenin'... Spot |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Bugsy Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:42 PM Having lived longer now in Australia than I did in the land of my birth, I most probably shouldn't have any say here (though they do say that one never loses one's British birthright). However, I always thought that England's National Anthem should be "Jerusalem". For anyone who does not know it, the lyrics are as follows: And did those feet in ancient time Walk upon England's mountains green? And was the holy Lamb of God On England's pleasant pastures seen? And did the countenance divine Shine forth upon our clouded hills? And Jerusalem builded here Among those dark Satanic mills? Bring me my bow of burning gold Bring me my arrows of desire! Bring me my spear! Oh, clouds unfold! Bring me my chariot of fire. I will not cease from mental fight. Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand, Till we have built Jerusalem In England's green and pleasant land! When I was a lad, this song always stirred the loins! Still does, for that matter. Cheers Bugsy |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: GUEST,norton Date: 14 Mar 01 - 09:10 PM i |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 15 Mar 01 - 02:47 PM For a person who is from Scotland, then why should Westminster or anywhere else in England tell us in Scotland HOW to run our country, that's what happens everytime your English M.p's do when they vote on Scottish policies, what about the Poll tax that we here in Scotland had a year before the English did, it was the ENGLISH M.P'S THAT VOTED FOR THAT AND ALSO TO HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AT FASLANE.AND OTHER THINGS HERE IN SCOTLAND.
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 15 Mar 01 - 02:53 PM You say that someone who doesn't feel a part of Britain I shuldn't be telling you what I think the English nationasl anthem should be. God you lot down there have being telling us here in Scotand what to do for years, it was the English M.P's that voted that Scotland should get the poll tax a YEAR before England, and another example that Faslane on the Clyde should get Nuclear weapons. Your English M.P's even stole the fishing rights from our Fishermen by moving your fishing grounds north to Scotland. I can go on with a list as long as my arm with all the things that Westminster has told us. When I talk about the fishing grounds i'M TALKING ABOUT WESTMINSTER. SCOTLAND HAS ALWAYS BEING A SEPARTE COUNTRY AND IS NOW A PART OF BRITIAN |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Dave Wynn Date: 15 Mar 01 - 07:55 PM Stevieribs, ....Please stop shouting..Loud doesn't mean right....Have your Scotland..keep it...I don't want it...Dig a great channel across from Carlisle to the east coast and tow it away. But please don't shout. I didn't fight in the uprisings of 1745 and didn't clear one solitary highland. I didn't bribe any of your coutrymen nor hang one from a gallows tree...I didn't burn any crofts or rape and pillage. It must have been someone else who did it. So stop shouting at me coz I am innocent. Or if the charge is just being an Englishman...then I'm guilty as charged and proud of it! Spot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Mar 01 - 08:37 PM "in the (unlikely) event of total independence for the Celtic countries"
Don't you believe it! (I just came in from a funeral trip to Ireland, and it's late at night, and I haven't even read the thread yet, and someone else may have said that already. But it jumped out at me.
Mind I disapprove of the term "Celtic countries" - Scotland and Ireland and even Wales are by no means exclusively "Celtic", even if you extend that from its proper sense of what language people speak to what language their ancestors spoke. Half the trouble in Ireland has stemmed from people thinking along those lines. But that's drifting the thread.
I'd vote for Yellow Submarine myself. Everyone knows it, it's easy to join in, and the words are highly appropriate and inclusive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Murray MacLeod Date: 16 Mar 01 - 12:59 AM I like "Yellow Submarine" too, McGrath. So now we have "Donald , Where's your troosers" for the Scots, and "Yellow Submarine" for the English. I can think of several alternative Irish national anthems, but damned if I can think of one for Wales. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 16 Mar 01 - 01:58 PM Sorry for Shouting, however I thought that as a proud Scotsman, unlike some of my countrymen, I thought I might as well give a wee history lesson on Britain and British Politics. I'm glad that you spot are a proud English and so you should be, but please remeber I'm a proud Scotsman and I'm saying that all the people of England are guilty of these crimes, it's the people in Westminster the house of Commons that I don't like and not you. This may surprise you but I really do like England and the English people, It's what those b....... in the house of Commons have done to my country and now they're doing the same to yours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Mr Red Date: 16 Mar 01 - 06:59 PM Murray MacLeod The Welsh have the Kipper Song - "We'll kipper a welcome in the hillside, we'll kipper welcome in the vales......."
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Dave Wynn Date: 16 Mar 01 - 07:25 PM Stevieribs...See you at Girvan Festival perhaps...we can share a drink and complain about politico's together... Spot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Lanfranc Date: 16 Mar 01 - 08:15 PM I would support total independence for Scotland if the Scots would agree to forgo their right to send MPs to Westminster. I don't know what you're whinging about up there, it is we English who are under the domination of the bloody Picts! You can have Blair, Brown, Cook and the rest back as soon as you like! Otherwise, I will rewrite "Parcel of Rogues" from the English point of view, and submit that for consideration as the new English National Anthem!
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Murray MacLeod Date: 16 Mar 01 - 08:19 PM Stevieribs, I assure you I am a proud Scot as well, but I have never felt the urge to join the "Here's tae us, wha's like us, damn few and they're a' deid " brigade, hence my somewhat sceptical approach to national anthems of any description. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: The Celtic Bard Date: 17 Mar 01 - 03:15 AM Guys as soon as you start bringing up the question of Scottish independence, it's going to get messy because everyone can drag a couple million skeletons out of the perverbial historical closet. Personally as a Scot, I would love to see my homeland free (heck! I'd love to see my homeland at all considering that I'm living halfway around the world in California). I think that someday it will happen. At least I hope that it will. I know that a lot of horrid stuff has happened and I've heard that the parliament is wrecking the country but shouting at each other and hating each other for things that were done centuries ago is not going to change the here and now. It's sad that Scotland is now occupied territory and it's sad that in the past England has hanged our heroes. But that's in the past and although it does shape the present and the future, it can't be changed. Ok, deep breath. That's good. Now on the actually topic of this thread. Personally I think that the British national anthem is kind of stupid and out-dated. Of course I think that the American one is too unsingable not to mention talks about an event that took place over 200 years ago. It's ok to make fun of other people's national anthems if you make fun of your own isn't it? I just have one question for all you British mudcatters out there: What will you do with your national anthem when you no longer have a queen? Singing "God Save the Queen" to a king would be kind of funny, wouldn't it? Plus, disregarding history and tradition, why are you still worshipping a postion that doesn't really have any power? Maybe it should be "God Save the Parliament." Anyway that's just my thoughts. Rebecca <>< |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: TamthebamfraeScotland Date: 17 Mar 01 - 07:26 AM I'm not going to argue about who's a proud Scotsman and who is not. Just let us agree to disagree.
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Sean Date: 17 Mar 01 - 10:33 AM Just popped in for the lyrics to "Barley Mow", and happened upon this thread. Despite the name, my birthplace is in England (parents wanted to p.o. the previous generation - not to mention "Dr. No" came out the year before). I just wanted to remind those interested that the US national anthem originates in a war they LOST - to Canada! Of course, we Canadians like to harp on that since the Americans beat us at hockey nowadays. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Mr Red Date: 17 Mar 01 - 12:15 PM The Celtic Bard I think God will save the King OK. We can keep a British Anthem (despite howls from Scots) and still have an English one. I like Steve Park's idea of a Staffordshire Anthem. I would have a go but it would turn out cynical at the moment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Mar 01 - 12:49 PM What will you do with your national anthem when you no longer have a queen? Singing "God Save the Queen" to a king would be kind of funny, wouldn't it? Well it's not that hard. When there's a king they sing God Save the King, and when it's a queen, it's God save the King. Which does have the virtue of simplicity. If it turned republic they could sing God Save the President, though it'd be a mouthful getting through the last line, with the extra syllables. I suppose that's why the Americans didn't use it, since they are clearly fond of the tune, what with My Country Tis of Thee.
Or if my suggestion of Yellow Submarine was considewred too radical, the compromise could be to sing God Save the Submarine...God Save the Sub.
But as for "why are you still worshipping a position that doesn't really have any power" - technically speaking if you're praying for someone you can't possibly be worshipping them, it's a logical contradiction.
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: The Celtic Bard Date: 17 Mar 01 - 05:28 PM Look guys I was just WONDERING! Boy! I guess I really underlined my ignorance, didn't I? Open mouth, insert foot. Sorry. As you can probably guess, I'm many many generations American and the only English in my family is many many generations back. Hey Sean! I guess we Americans tend to forget that we lost that war. Oh and if it makes you feel any better, I can't say anything bad about Canadians in this house because my mom was born and raised in Canada. We get some pretty stern looks when the rest of us American born citizens get a little too infatuated with ourselves. (Oh and by the way I think that the Canadian national anthem is really cool!) Rebecca <>< |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: catspaw49 Date: 17 Mar 01 - 05:53 PM Sorry for invading this thread. I think the last time we invaded England was WWII. Uh, that's a joke guys.....you know, the pre-Normandy build up, the airfields...........Okay, its a bad joke, but I do have a question that this thread made me think of and I would dearly love some help with. A friend of mine had some wonderful recordings of an English Symphony Orchestra that was the "Spike Jones" of symphonic music. What made me think of them here is that on one live recording the played the intro to "God Save The Queen" and you can hear the audience standing up. They stopped at the end of the intro, leaving the audience standing and after a bit they begin to laugh realizing they have been had. This group did some brilliant pieces of original compositions including something written for two Hoover's in E Flat and a Floor Polisher in C. Also had a wonderful thing with the great hornist Dennis Brain playing on 24 foot of garden hose "with funnel." WHO ARE THEY???? I seem to recall the name may have begun with an M. M******** Symphony.......something. I've done occasional searches trying different things but can't come up with anything that strikes me as right. They were very funny. Sadly, my friend was a victim of a drunk driver fifteen years ago. Any ideas here on this??? Not worth a thread, but then again, maybe it is. Thought I might ask here on this one first though. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Eric the Viking Date: 18 Mar 01 - 07:48 AM The Welsh have a National anthem!! It goes.. A hen laid a haddock on top of a tree.....etc Then the chorus Wales, Wales, bloody big fish in the sea etc. The programme "Not the 9.o Clock News" had..."Failed in Wales" to the tune of Men of Harlech. I have heard it sung at Rugby matches in Cardiff.. "A hen laid a haddock..." so it must be right. Any way, ask Anne Robinson!! I do think that when we (humans) get over this idea that our country is better than someone elses then things might improve for the whole world. Governments might give the orders to kill and invade etc, but humans cary them out, sometimes with great relish and enjoyment. What the English did to the Scots, The Irish did to the English, the British did to the Irish, the Welsh did to.... etc,before that the Romans, greeks, Phonecians, Egyptians. Not to mention the Germans,Chinese, Japanese, Dutch and Russians, Spanish, Americans, mexicans... just shows how small minded we really are, unless we learn a lesson from the past, we will still do these things-Kosovo, Croatia, Africa-it still goes on-thats, human beings for you!!! I'm not one for quoting the Bilbe, but,"let him without sin" etc often springs to mind. Oh well enough said.I think "Nowhere man" should be a world anthem. Cheers |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Micca Date: 18 Mar 01 - 04:12 PM Spaw, I think you are referring to the Late Great Gerard Hoffnungs music festivals, that were given in performance at the Royal Festival Hall19 the 1950s..I have a "re performance" set of CDs of some of the pieces made in 1988 as a sort of tribute to him...If you want more info, PM me |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Snuffy Date: 18 Mar 01 - 07:36 PM Eric, you'll find the words to My Hen Laid a Haddock in thi thread Lyr Req: Rule Britannia IN WELSH, which discusses a pnother potential British (not English) National Anthem. Wassail! V
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 01 - 08:00 PM Here's a link to a page about Gerard Hoffnung, with all kinds of stuff, including cartoon poster (very likely of that concert that tickled catspaw's fancy) and photo of the great man -unfortunately he died far too young, as some people have the annoying habit of doing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Dave Wynn Date: 18 Mar 01 - 09:02 PM Eric....I don't have a problem with each nation THINKING their country and people are the best...that's justifiable pride in your country....It's when a country goes to war to prove it the problems occur..and I agree with your comment's...let the nation that is without sin ....etc. Spot |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 01 - 09:22 PM Well, maybe it's thread drift,and some people don't like that, but here's a response to what Spot just wrote.
Thinking your country, or your wife or husband or your children is "best" seems to me a snare and a delusion. Loving them best is something different. Wanting to do the best for them is what matters.
Chesterton said it well, using what was at the time a pretty rundown London district, Pimlico, as his example - but he could as well have been talking about England or Ireland or America:
It is not enough for a man to disapprove of Pinmlico; in that case he will merely cut his throat or move to Chelsea. Nor certainly is it enough for a man to approve of Pimlico, which would be awful. The only way out of it seems to be for somebody to love Pimlico...as mothers love their children, arbitrarily, because it is theirs. When I hear people boasting about the greatness and splendour of their country, it seems to me that they are in fact despairing about making it the way it really should be, and whistling in the dark. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Steve Parkes Date: 19 Mar 01 - 05:11 AM In my bible it says "he who is without sin, let him ..". This saves you from having to grapple with the grammatical conundrum (something only elderly English teachers should attempt!) of whether to say "let him whom is .." or "let he who is ..". BTW, remember Woody's "This land is my land.."? Great country, great people, lousy politicians -- fill in the name ofyour country! Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: GUEST,David Neale Date: 24 Jun 03 - 03:36 AM Noel Coward's "Mad Dogs and Englishmen" seems appropriate (especially as I'm Welsh), but I suppose the English ladies might object... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: LadyJean Date: 24 Jun 03 - 11:11 PM My tabby cat looked like a small, furry, queen Victoria, so, when I brushed her, I sang, "God Save Our Gracious Cat, long live our noble cat. etc." When I mentioned this to a lady I knew, who came from Birmingham, she was quite shocked that I would parody her national anthem. Did any of you ladies attend Edgebascombe College, in Birmingham? I went to your sister school, in Pittsburgh. We used to sing "And did those feet in ancient times..." in the morning, in honor of our sisters across the pond. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Strupag Date: 25 Jun 03 - 06:24 PM After the recent conduct of our leaders despite the good efforts of Scots, English, and Welsh folk, I reckon the new English national anthem should be, with out a doubt, "America My America" or why not "Your Cheatin Heart" |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Joe_F Date: 25 Jun 03 - 06:48 PM Messrs Flanders & Swann, in _At the Drop of Another Hat_ lamented this lack at some length and submitted a proposal that began: The English, the English, the English are best. I wouldn't give twopence for all of the rest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: English National Anthem From: Jim Dixon Date: 25 Jun 03 - 07:47 PM The four verses that TamthebamfraeScotland posted above are the same ones that are in the DT, but in a different order. However, I found a site (Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) that contains a fifth verse:
From the assassins blow, God save the Queen! O'er her thine arm extend, For Britain's sake defend, Our mother, prince, and friend, God save the Queen!
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 25 Jun 03 - 11:25 PM Reviving a long-dead discussion can lead to all manner of misunderstandings, but, since this particular one has for no evidently good reason beyond whim been dragged back out of the grave, I should just say that the "real" verses quoted long ago by Tam are some centuries old, and have not been part of the official anthem for the last couple of hundred years; objections based on that are therefore irrelevant unless somebody is really very desperate indeed to pick a fight on the smallest pretense. National anthems are usually crap, and the British (not English) one is no exception, though it has been copied by rather a lot of other countries as it's an easy tune with a convenient shape (a galliard, if you're interested in dance forms). Give me Jerusalem any time for preference, if we're talking about England, though I'd prefer something a bit more secular and radical; and for Scotland (the term "Celtic" is also irrelevant here, as both countries are racially indistinguishable in the most part) Hamish Henderson's Freedom Come All Ye. Flower of Scotland, though well-intentioned and undeniably very popular, has always struck me as about as powerful, and musically interesting, as All Things Bright and Beautiful. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Steve Parkes Date: 26 Jun 03 - 03:17 AM I think that assasin's blow verse may have been added after the attempted shooting of Victoria. Steve |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: The Barden of England Date: 26 Jun 03 - 05:39 AM Ah - - Victoria !! Perhaps the English National Anthem should be 'Knees up mother Brown' after her alleged dalliances in the aforementioned Scotland. By the way, didn't the English get James VI from Scotland which upset a certain Guido Fawkes? |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: ooh-aah Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:29 AM No, what upset him and his mates was that he was a Protestant, and they were Catholics. Shades of Northern Ireland except we English (officially) gave up killing people for their religious views in the early 1700s. I agree that 'Jerusalam' is the best anthem for England, and I say that despite being an atheistical Pagan. The thing can easily be viewed as symbolic, with 'Jerusalem' seen as a metaphor for the tricky and particularly English blend of social justice, respect for tradition, veneration of the environment and a balanced pride in our incredible achievements that we should be attempting to achieve. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:12 AM Here's a site with six verses of God Save the Queen/King; plus an extra one from Canada. And it links to a page with seven verses; plus numerous versions in Chennel Island French. I think they seem to have started using this fourth verse at State Occasions, as second verse in a two verse version, which seems a friendly idea - Not in this land alone, But be God's mercies known, From shore to shore! Lord make the nations see, That men should brothers be, And form one family, The wide world over. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: stevethesqueeze Date: 27 Jun 03 - 07:07 AM I have tried to resit joining in this thread as best as I can but can't resist any longer. Without any doubt at all in my mind Scotland, Wales, Ireland and England are four seperate, countries. they should be treated as such. their histories are intertwined and complicated to say the least, but they are seperate. the arbitary concept of Britain has much to answer for and many of the bad things that have happened in these islands have more to do with this than anyhting else. Most residents of wales (where i live now), Scotland (where I have lived) and Ireland (where I have a little farm) learned many years ago that there is no Britain. Only the people in England (where I was born) are deceived into still believing it exists. I of course forgot that Northern ireland loyalists also belive that there is a Britain, sorry. Its time for us to accept that we are English rather than British and to be proud of that. And I agree that jerusalem is the best anthem we have. One thing that really concerns me is the EU intention to turn England into a set of administraitive regions, north, south, south east etc rather than one nation. This regionalisation of the country is something that should be rejected. I honestly belive this is driven by a desire to break up the concept of England. have a look some of the things Billy Bragg has to say on the subject. stevethesqueeze |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Steve Parkes Date: 27 Jun 03 - 08:50 AM If poor old William Blake were still alive, he'd turn in his grave at the idea of using Jerusalem as the national anthem! I'm sure he wouldn't approve of the tune or the thinking behind it: Victorian (or was it Edwardian?) imperialism at its worst. In fact, I'm all for it, as long as we don't have to confuse nationalism with patriotitsm by taking it seriously. Someone else can explain all that Satanic mills stuff, please! Steve |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: PrincePhilip Date: 27 Jun 03 - 09:20 AM Stevethesqueeze, Surely it is the arbitary concept of 'the nation' that has much to answer for! Most national boundaries have been drawn in blood at some point, and that is the blood of working people, not the land, factory etc owners. The concept of nations is divisive and serves to protect the interests of the owning class and is used to try and make us identify with them. It is the concept of the nation, be it 'the area formerly known as southeast England!?!', England, United Kingdom, Europe or whatever, obscures the fact the most people in the world have to sell their labour to get money to buy the things which they and other people create which are owned by a small minority of property owners who live off the profits of selling the fruits of that labour. Because I know this, I don't care what state I live in or who runs it, I want to end this social division, it's not my country, it's owned by a tiny minority of rich property owners, it's their country, I just work here. So forget the national anthem, let's have an international anthem, the Internationale (original words by Eugene Pottier (Paris 1871) and music by Pierre Degeyter (1888)) has been translated into many different languages. The song calls for the overthrow of the propertied class who send us to fight and die for the expansion or protection of their wealth and for the human race to unite to for ownership in common. Philip PS I find 'The Internationale' is a bit aggressive in places, but you can fit the words to Led Zeppelin's 'Whole Lotta Love'. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Jun 03 - 10:42 AM I'm agreed that Britain is not a country, it's an island containing a number of countries. But as for England, I think it's high time we got back to the little countries of the Heptarchy. But "the thinking behind it" in referance to a tune? I'm bewildered by what that can mean, more especially in relation to the one used for Jerusalem, which is tranquil and encouraging rather then in any way boastful. Now, the tune of Land of Hope and Glory, maybe that does match it's title, "Pomp and Circumstance" - though in fact Elgar didn't write it with the words of Ho eand Glory in mind, and he loathed having it used for them. |
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Subject: english translation of national anthem of england From: GUEST,direct-x Date: 13 Mar 04 - 07:57 PM |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Johnny in OKC Date: 13 Mar 04 - 11:55 PM Tamthebam, I hope they change it to "King" when the king takes over. I think some of you could write some patriotic words to the tune of "Last of the Summer Wine". Probably everyone in the world recognizes it. Love, Johnny |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Johnny in OKC Date: 14 Mar 04 - 12:05 AM On second thought, why don't they just leave "God" out of it altogether? Johnny in OKC |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 14 Mar 04 - 03:03 AM Seems rather odd to suggest, as an 'English' Anthem, a song which has as its title the name of a city in the Middle-East which is the seat of a tyrannical and oppressive regime. It would have to be renamed to something more suitable - but Scunthorpe or 'Ull don't have the same ring do they? Johnny :0) |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Roughyed Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:04 PM It certainly needs changing. The current dirge was described by someone I can't remember as a hymn to someone who doesn't exist to someone who shouldn't exist. As we appear to have been recently established as the least religious country on earth (hooray), and there is a healthy minority of English republicans, we have been left with a national anthem that actually alienates the majority of the population if they care to listen to the words. On second thoughts, I think that's so English that maybe we should keep it.... |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:14 PM So, Roughyed, something like: "...save the..." Seems a bit sparse. A much jollier song, with the same basic theme as the present one, was the Cavalier drinking song: Here's a health unto his Majesty, With a fal la la la la la la, Confusion to his enemies, With a fal lal la la la la la la. And he that will not drink his health, I wish him neither wit nor wealth, Nor but a rope to hang himself. With a fal lal la la la la la la la la, With a fal lal la la la la la. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Strupag Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:18 PM "Personally as a Scot" "I guess we Americans" Boy, Celtic Bard, you have and identity problem! |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Fergie Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:06 PM Might I suggest "God Bless England" written by Peadar Kearney, it is in the D.T. (still have not got the hang of those blue clicky things) Fergus |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,The Walrus (too bloody lazy to reset the coo Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:07 PM TamthebamfraeScotland, One quick point about GStQ, You got the verses out of order, the 'General Wade' verse is somewhere about verse 5 or 6, and as most people don't even remember verse 2, it's more often forgotten than not - Anyway, as the original first verse was completely re-written in 1827, it seems likely that that verse can be officially, as well as practically, dropped without worry. Walrus |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Joe_F Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:15 PM "I see that Mr Bernard Shaw, among others, wants to rewrite the second verse of the National Anthem. Mr Shaw's retains references to God and the King, but is vaguely internationalist in sentiment. This seems to me ridiculous. Not to have a national anthem would be logical. But if you do have one, its function must necessarily be to point out that we are Good and our enemies are Bad. Besides, Mr Shaw wants to cut out the only worth-while lines the anthem contains. All the brass instruments and big drums in the world cannot turn "God Save the King" into a good tune, but on the very rare occasions when it is sung in full it does spring to life in the two lines: Counfound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks! And, in fact, I had always imagined that the second verse is habitually left out because of a vague suspicion on the part of the Tories that these lines refer to themselves." -- George Orwell (December 1943) I myself also admire the lines "May she defend our laws,..." That is to say, "Please, God, keep her from harm, and also, please, God, make her mind her business." How very constitutional! |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:22 PM But I'd still vote for Yellow Submarine... |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Gareth Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:53 PM Mmmm ! - As a Taffy - Swelsh version, who used to sing "Swing Low Sweet Charriot" at the Rugby Club, (With the actions) that is untill those ponces at Twickenham hijacked a perfectly good bawdy song, my thoughts on a Saxon Anthem might be a little prejudiced But given the history of the English - why not try this Clixk 'Ere It describes all the ledgedary English attributes from Hypocracy, Naval Domination, Bestiality, Child "Abuse", Masterbation, Flagelation etc. Gareth - Ducking and running for the safety of the Sheep Fold ! A son of Ap Morgan ! |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 Mar 04 - 07:02 AM |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Murray MacLeod Date: 23 Mar 04 - 07:30 PM Thank you Kevin for providing the link to the previous thread. Since this thread here has taken on a life of its own I feel justified in copying and pasting the initial post from that previous thread. Subject: English National Anthem From: Murray MacLeod - PM Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:18 AM Since the thread on alternative American anthems created such a response, let's see if we can do something similar for the British Isles. I have long been of the opinion that Andy M Stewart's "Rambling Rover" should be the National Anthem of Scotland, but in the (unlikely) event of total independence for the Celtic countries, England is going to need a new National Anthem as well. I propose Derek Brimstone's stirring song should be adopted I'm a fine young Englishman, And I do the best I can I try to be a credit to the nation I don't ask for much at all Just to piss my wages up a wall And win the Duke of Edinburgh Award for fornication Now the English are the best An example to the rest They all should get down on their knees and thank us The Irish are a pest Al except for Georgie Best And the Scots and the Welsh are a bunch of wankers. These are Derek's omly two verses. Some years ago I took the liberty, with his permission, of composing a middle verse which goes like this: You can see me on the street In Benidorm or in Lloret As out of the pub at 5 a.m. I stagger I may act the randy pup But I can never get it up After drinking sixteen pints of Carlsberg lager I feel this song encapsulates the spirit of the modern Englishman in a way which "God Save the Queen" somehow fails to do ................... Murray |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Murray MacLeod Date: 23 Mar 04 - 07:32 PM Oh bollocks, wrong thread ... |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Jennie Date: 24 Mar 04 - 09:21 PM You might like this site: CENA, The Campaign for an English National Anthem |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 25 Mar 04 - 07:49 AM Well gareth, whats wrong with those? None of them stoop so low as sheep-shagging.................. Johnny :0) |
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Subject: 2 da scot dissin da uk y'all! das right - freshhh! From: GUEST,brad Date: 09 Jun 04 - 05:17 AM get your stoopid sweaty mps out of the houses of parliament then! get them to stick to eatin haggis in scotland... you cant legislate me you dsgusting person! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE VILLAGE GREEN PRESERVATION SOCIETY From: Jackie in the Green Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:48 AM Here's a health unto his Majesty, With a fal la la la la la la, Confusion to his enemies, With a fal lal la la la la la la. And he that will not drink his health, I wish him neither wit nor wealth, Nor but a rope to hang himself. With a fal lal la la la la la la la la, With a fal lal la la la la la. I quite like the fal lal la la las, but I'm not keen on the rest. How about Vindaloo by Fat Les? It mentions things we English hold dear - curry, tea, cheddar cheese, waterloo etc. Or THE VILLAGE GREEN PRESERVATION SOCIETY by Ray Davies. We are the Village Green Preservation Society. God save Donald Duck, vaudeville and variety. We are the Desperate Dan Apreciation Society. God save strawberry jam and all the different varieties. Preserving the old ways from being abused. Protecting the new ways, for me and for you. What more can we do? We are the Draught Beer Preservation Society. God save Mrs. Mopp and good old Mother Riley. We are the Custard Pie Appreciation Consortium. God save the George Cross, and all those who were awarded them. We are the Sherlock Holmes English-speaking Vernacular. God save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula. We are the Office Block Persecution Affinity. God save little shops, china cups, and virginity. We are the Skyscraper Condemnation Affiliates. God save Tudor houses, antique tables, and billiards. Preserving the old ways from being abused. Protecting the new ways, for me and for you. What more can we do? God save the village green! |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Jun 04 - 12:14 PM I think that song counts as post-ironic. Strange that it doesn't mention Morris Dancing, perhaps the ultimate expression of post-ironic patriotism. |
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Subject: RE: England national anthem From: GUEST Date: 28 Sep 04 - 08:42 PM |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,PRINCESS Date: 14 Oct 04 - 08:05 AM |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,ccpgr Date: 24 Oct 04 - 06:35 AM anybody knows the composer of the english national anthem? |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Tam the Bam (Nutter) Date: 24 Oct 04 - 06:53 AM There isn't an Englsih National Anthem, it the BRITISH NATIONAL ANTHEM. We in Scotland have an unoffical national anthem, the same with Wales, well the rest of the britian doesn't sing land of my fathers, or Flower of Scotland. We in Britian god I hate that word (Britian) but we here in Scotland and Northern Ireland and Wales are forced to sing and stand up to sing God Save the Queen/King. It all depens who is on the throne. I'm Scottish and proud of it. And not only that the British natoinal anthem is anti Scottish anyway. And then they wonder why us Scots won't sing it. I don't know who the composer of the song was and I don't care. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Oct 04 - 12:07 PM Well I think something by Cliff would be nice Living Doll might upset the feminists - but what about Summer Holiday - thats cheerful and we all know it |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: *Laura* Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:55 PM tam - i like the queen. but when it's charlie's turn i won't be so keen. but i'm only a baby - so what do i know anyway!?!? I think it should be 'Let It Be' or 'Everybody Hurts' for the depresseds. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: *Laura* Date: 25 Oct 04 - 01:59 PM actually i don't think that at all. i don't know what i was thinking last night! xLx |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: *Laura* Date: 25 Oct 04 - 02:00 PM about the anthem - i agree with what i said about the queen |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,cookieless manitas Date: 26 Oct 04 - 08:02 AM Tam, If you don't like using the word 'Britian' try using 'Britain' instead. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: RAT-W Date: 26 Oct 04 - 08:45 AM Errm, has anyone tried 'Land Of Hope And Glory'? I think that it has practically nothing to do with England, unless your looking for something to do OUT of the country, but it's got a really good tune. The Rat (Patriotic as I may be). |
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Subject: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Shale27265@aol.com Date: 02 Nov 04 - 07:47 PM What is England's National Anthem & How did North Carolina vote in the Presidential Race? |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,English bloke Date: 19 Feb 07 - 03:40 PM All music is, in some way or other, political. However, talk of an English national anthem is explosive stuff. I agree that we should have an anthem that is not used also as a generic anthem for the union. The reason I give for this is that the English, and here I mean the REAL English (you know, the English that anti-English Scots have in mind when they say 'the English'), are experiencing a pretty serious identity crisis. In Britain, the English in particular are currently in the grip of a potentially fatal strain of utopian social engineering at the hands of an authoritarian regime which seems hell bent on destroying the English nation through unprecidented legal and illegal immigration, the 'outsourcing' of jobs and even our laws to the foreigner (please feel free to call me 'xenophobic', I'll let you), repeated attempts to dice England up into little Euro-regions (divide et imperium), the suppression of expressions of English nationalism (Except when supporting the England football team, English people have been banned from flying the English flag - in England. They've also been arrested for playing 'Rule Britannia' - apparently, for some non-English New Labour storm-troopers, this tune is now 'hate music'.), and so on ad nauseam. Bar attempts by the Anglophobic mafia (which is currently busy coercing the real English into abeyance) to choose some wishy-washy multicult trash as the English national anthem, an English national anthem would be extremely helpful to the English people as a reminder to them that the English are indeed a people. My personal suggestion is: 'Do the Conga' by Black Lace! Well, we do like to queue - even when we dance! LOL!!! |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Jim Lad Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:56 AM Good lord English bloke! I thought there were none of you left. Whatever you decide on for an anthem, I only ask that it be sung by two of England's most beautiful women. Boy George and Elton John come to mind but I'd settle for Marc Bolan. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Captain Ginger Date: 20 Feb 07 - 04:42 AM What absolute twaddle! Where is flying the flag of St George illegal? Who has been arrested for playing Rule Britannia? Get your head out of the Mail and the Express and take the chip off your shoulder! Or maybe you hanker after the good old days when a true Englishman could put a sign up saying "No blacks and no Irish", when it was acceptable to make fun of n*ggers and coons and when you could beat your wife with a stick no thicker than your thumb. Ah, those were the days, eh? |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:19 PM Captain Ginger, during the last world cup two shopkeepers one in the London area and one in Yorkshire were forced to remove St. George's from outside their shop or face prosecution. The one in the London area refused, there was a lot of media interest and the local council back down and dropped the charges. they were laid under some ancient bylaw because behaviour likely to incite racial tension could not be proved. It does show that some people will try to do these things. I would like to point out that I do not hanker after the days you mention which I won't even type and I don't believe ther is any need for an English anthem at all. I certainly don't hold with the other comments held by English Bloke. Pete |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Jim Lad Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:27 PM How about... "I'm Sorry"? |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST Date: 20 Feb 07 - 01:25 PM Jim Lad that would,sadly, be appropriate for so many reasons. An expansion on your idea "Sorry seems to be the hardest word" Pete |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Jim Lad Date: 20 Feb 07 - 02:14 PM It's right on so many levels. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Big Phil Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:45 PM English bloke makes a couple of good points. Jerusalem for our National Anthem. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,jock Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:30 PM A couple of recent oints are getting you guys in the right direction.......... Composer is one Flower of Scotland is another. Flower of Scotland was composed in the late sixties or early seventies by a Scottish folk band "The Corries". It was not an overnight success but has grown to be recognised the World over as it has been adopted at various sporting and social events. It is only loosely based on the fact that we have effectively been unable to be self determinant and is more about vain hope than assured arrogance. Your identity need not be rooted in the latter Impirical days which have long since gone and for which you do indeed need to be sorry. Rather how about a decent and lesser ego among your folk fraternity focussing on UNIONs or ROSES or something dignified in your History ...even if you have to go back a few hundred years when you kept yourselves to yourselves... somewhere before Tudors or something.... All they need to do is find something which inspires the majority of ordinary people and aspires to more than having 356% equity on their property. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:55 PM I said on another thread - Song of the bow by Arthur Conan Doyle. Mate of mine has set it to music and it would make a cracking English anthem. And who could complain? English anthem by a Scotsman born of Irish parents! Well, I suppose there is nothing in it for the Welsh, and it is St Davids day after all... What of the men? The men were bred in England: The bowman--the yeoman-- The lads of dale and fell Here's to you--and to you; To the hearts that are true And the land where the true hearts dwell. Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:00 PM By the way - why does any discussion of English national pride always attract a fair share of accusations of imperialism, racism and right wing views? What on earth is wrong with wanting to install a bit of pride back into our land? If we can do it with an anthem rather than through the medium of the football yob what is wrong with that? Dave |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: The Sandman Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:35 PM lord randall.a really boring song. or a minutes silence, dedicated to the country that invented the concentration camp. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,heed Date: 02 Mar 07 - 04:29 AM if you want a new english anthem one. http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/anthem/ "We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to initiate a Parliamentary debate on the adoption of a national anthem for England that is distinct from the British national anthem. The British anthem - God Save the Queen - should not be sung by the English as an English anthem. It is disrespectful to England, Scotland and Wales to conflate England with Britain in this way; for England is a nation every bit as much as Scotland and Wales, and those Scots and Welsh that still consider themselves British are now obliged to boo their own anthem for fear of being regarded as traitors by an increasingly nationalistic tendency." http://anthem4england.co.uk/ http://www.thecep.org.uk/ |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 02 Mar 07 - 04:56 AM Captain Birdseye - could you clarify? Was it the English or the British that invented the concentration camp (during the Boer War presumably?) |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,ib48 Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:04 AM it should be nelly the elephant,or lip up fatty by bad manners |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: The Sandman Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:58 AM the government in westminster,which was composed of english, scottish, welsh and irish,the British,.but theDominant race of the British ,was the English,so it was both. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:00 AM Such a pity the British weren't such benevolent colonists as those gentle and tender Spanish, Portuguese, French and Dutch. The world would have been such a happy place today! |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Scrump Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:30 AM the government in westminster,which was composed of english, scottish, welsh and irish,the British,.but theDominant race of the British ,was the English,so it was both. So don't the Scottish, Welsh and Irish share in the blame then, Cap'n? Perhaps they all voted against the idea? |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:31 AM I always thought the Scots ran the Empire..... |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Scrump Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:43 AM They do now - what's left of it anyway. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:57 AM The English (British) did NOT invent the concentration camp. That is bad history and people who do not know any history should really go and find things out before coming onto public forums and spreading misinformation. As an historian I am very impatient with this form of pop history. please do your research, get a dictionary and find out the facts. Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Captain Ginger Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:11 PM I was under the impression that they were first seen in the form we understand them today during the American Civil War, and that the name 'concentration camp' was first used to describe the camps set up by the Spanish in Cuba during the Spanish-American War. The British did use them, though, and the resulting deaths are shameful. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Scrump Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:11 PM Well, to bring this thread back on topic, whether or not the English invented the concentration camp, it is not a subject suitable for inclusion in a national anthem, whoever it was that invented it. A national anthem should celebrate the country and its positive achievements, not anything that would be shameful. That's why I said, it shouldn't include subjects like Empire building or wars. Even if some people are proud of these, they were achieved at the expense of other countries, so should IMO not be a subject for celebration, as they will offend those other countries, which IMO shouldn't be the intention of a national anthem. Maybe we should write our own, in which case we need to decide what elements to focus on: freedom (what's left of it), the beautiful conutryside (what's left of it), and er... anything else? |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:12 PM Guest - true, but you miss the point. Nothing the British/English ever did overseas (or at home for that matter) can be considered good. Ever. A slightly folky example - I was at an academic conference in Cork about five years ago and there was a trio of Irish girls (two fiddles and a concertina)providing the background music during the reception. I mentioned to a colleague (English but living in Ireland)that the concertina is (apparently)the only musical instrument invented by an Engishman. I was told that was 'dangerous' talk and I should keep it to myself. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Scrump Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:38 PM I thought Scotland the Brave was a good example of an anthem that celebrates the country without dwelling on anything that would offend other nations (even the English! :-)), so I thought maybe we could base an English anthem on that. Here's my first attempt at the first verse: ENGLAND THE BRAVE Hark where the night is falling Hark hear the owls a-calling Loudly and proudly calling down thru the dale There where the hills are sleeping Now feel the blood a leaping Thanks to the spirits and the old English ale Anyone like to write the next bit? :-) |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:30 PM Nothing the British/English ever did overseas (or at home for that matter) can be considered good. Ever. Saving New Zealand from the Dutch? Standing up against Hitler in 1939? Abolishing slavery and policing the Atlantic against it? They don't sound like particularly bad things to me. Oh - sorry, that was not the English was it. I guess it must have been the good bits of UK. Wonder who they are... Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:34 PM Oops! Dave - I thought I was being ironic. Hence the concertina story. Sorry! |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:48 PM Oh - and second verse coming up... Morris teams with hankies waving Dancing with clogs a-blazing Brass bands playing at the local bandstand Leather does smack on willow Church bells ring through my pillow Rise up and join the folk who sing of England :D |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:50 PM No - apologies are from me, Terry - I can usualy spot a good iron but walked straight into that one. Ouch! :D |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:57 PM Hey - and never mind 100 - That was one gross! I've never had a gross post before... :D |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Mar 07 - 04:44 PM I still think Yellow Submarine would be a good choice. Maybe with a tiny bit of rewriting, though I'd sooner do without even that: We all live on an island in the sea An island in the sea, an island in the sea We all live on an island in the sea An island in the sea, an island in the sea And our friends are all aboard Many more of them live next door And the band begins to play We all live on an island in the sea An island in the sea, an island in the sea We all live on an island in the sea An island in the sea, an island in the sea As we live a life of ease Every one of us has all we need Sky of blue and sea of green On an island in the sea We all live on an island in the sea An island in the sea, an island in the sea We all live on an island in the sea An island in the sea, an island in the sea. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 07 - 01:00 PM Very good, McGrath, but the island includes Wales and Scotland. |
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Subject: RE: English National Anthem From: Scrump Date: 03 Mar 07 - 01:10 PM Agh! That last GUEST was me, sorry. How do you know when your cookie has been nicked, until you post?! |
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