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MUSIC and COMMUNITY
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Subject: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: WyoWoman Date: 09 Aug 02 - 08:16 PM Greetings Fellow Mudcateers, Some of you may not know me, as I've been strangely absent from these parts since I 1.) got a time-consuming JOB and 2.) moved to the country where my internet connection is frustratingly slow. HowEVer, I used to haunt these hallowed threads a bit in a younger day and now I wonder if I could ask your assistance with a magazine article I'm writing and a curiosity I want to satisfy for myself. (yes, I'm STILL working on the damned thing -- actually just now getting back to it, but this time, I'm on deadline), Here's the question: How has music contributed to, or become, your community? Have you made friends through jamming and singarounds who have become friends in other areas of your life as well, or does the connection remain fairly focused on music only? I know in my case most of my social interactions outside of work end up being with the friends I"ve met through music. But there are also a number of people I see at jams and never see otherwise. I'm writing about play as one of the important elements to a simpler, more satisfying life, and music being a great form of play and a great way to connect with other people. Do you think any of the lessons you've learned in playing music with other people have carried over into other areas of your life? Have you had any experiences organizing an event or becoming responsible for regular gatherings that have expanded your sense of yourself in relation to others, or expanded your appreciation of other people in all their different sizes, shapes and personalities? (this has certainly been true for me, both in 3-D musical gatherings and here in the Mudcat... ) What do you think? And ... may I quote you? (You can PM me with your name and city, or email me at racykacy@yahoo.com). T'anks, and I'll just stand back and listen for a little while ... Love and Rockets, WW
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 09 Aug 02 - 08:47 PM Hi, Wyo:
Those are smight thought-provking questions, but I've had a long day and I feel like just rambling a little bit. You've identified some very different experiences, all of which involve playing music. I've had the all, I guess. First of all, there's relaxed, sitting around and playing music in the kitchen, back porch, or wherever else you end up parked at the end of the day. Not being a particularly proficient instrumentalist, I've enjoyed times most where music has been a naturally-flowing part of a conversation. Just as in writing letters, I often find that I can express myself best in a line from a song. I ran a folk concert series for 27 years, and spent many late-ngihts on Saturdays sitting at the kitchen table after the concert, having something to eat and catching up with the lives of friends I'd come to knowthrough their music. It just seemed natural to reach over and grab a guitar and punctuate a conversation with a song. The songs, stories and conversations become so onterwoven that they all become the person. I've also made many friends by hearing them perform, or performing in workshops and concerts with them. If it never goes beyond the stage or a cup of coffee during a break, they remain people I like, but never really feel that I've gotten to know. part of that, I think, is that when people are performing they slip into their stage persona. It's hard to slip out of that... particularly if people are coming up to you after a performance who want to talk to you, and your attention is scatter-shot around the room. The third way that my life has been changed by music is in playing professionally with another musician or musicians. There's a certain almost-married commitment that goes with performing with other musicians. You really get to know someone when you have to work through all the stages of becoming one, musically. Or, at least being truly complimentary to each other in your music. I've come to realize that especially, working in the Gospel Messengers. Most of the growth that has happened between the four of us is in finding a harmony between each other as people. I'm not talking musical harmony. Egos have to be overcome, and generosity has to step forward in its place. You see each other at your best and sometimes even at your worst. You share success together, and failure, too. How you handle failure has a lot to do with whether you become true friends, or just people who play music together. There have been plenty of examples in music of people who had a successful career, who couldn't stand each other. Or maybe I should say, short, successful career.
From my own personal point of view, music is first and most importantly a beautiful way to communicate. You express yourself not only with the notes you play and the words you sing, but how you respect each other. Kinda like life. I don't believe that there's anything in here worth quoting, but if you want to use anything, be my guest... Jerry |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Mr Red Date: 09 Aug 02 - 08:54 PM FWIW I read an article in the new scientist that was about why humans sing. The arguement goes - it is a recreational pursuit with no apparent function and yet the need to sing and make music in a communal environment is pretty nigh universal in all cultures. the conclusion is drawn that it is very difficult to punch a person who you co-operate and sing with regularly. The tribe and the need to preserve it are central to human cultures and the binding elements include co-operative recreation. MUSIC et al. The problem with this concept is the size of a tribe - about 150 people (eg the upper size of an Xmas card list). After that it gets into us & them scenarios. |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Jeri Date: 09 Aug 02 - 09:45 PM I was in the Air Force until I retired in '99. It meant moving a lot and not always finding a music community. Once the internet happened and I got on it, it became easier and easier to find a bunch of other folkies. I didn't always find folks to play with, but my fiddle always came with me. Whenever I got a chance, I'd head back to where I'd been stationed in NH and met a great community of local musicians. I like this area for other reasons, but I moved here primarily because I had friends here for whom music was a part of everyday life. Outside of work, my friends are all musicians or involved with music in some way. It's not that I only choose musicians for friends but because that's what I do. That's how I meet people most of the time - through music. As far as what I've learned playing music carrying over into other aspects of my life... I found something I can be good at. Just knowing you can be good at ANYTHING carries over. The folk community has always been one that, in my opinion, has been very welcoming to a diverse bunch of folks. There are egomaniacs and social misfits, and a whole lot of gentle souls who, when you get right down to it, just like people. Because of the support I've received, I've found a strength in myself I might otherwise never have discovered. This culture of support gets passed along just like the music. You learn, you do, you teach. One thing about music: we do it together at the same time. It can bring a group of people together in a way that few other activities can. It can feel like people are almost telepathic at times because you all have to share the same thoughts about rhythm and pitch (and words if you're singing). I just had a long-forgotton memory resurface while writing this. I was in gradeschool, singing in chorus. We'd been getting older and better at singing. For one rapturous moment, all the voices came together just right and the harmony was perfect. I was only ten years old, but that's the way I thought the world should be: everybody singing their best, not their loudest, and all those ordinary voices joined together to make something magical. What a grand dream! |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Ebbie Date: 09 Aug 02 - 11:02 PM How has music contributed to, or become, your community? I came to Juneau about 15 years ago, knowing no one for a thousand miles around. I took a fiddle class (don't ask- my bowing arm doesn't have a clue) that first winter and very soon I knew 50 or so people. Nowadays I rarely attend a party that doesn't involve home-grown music; the combination of music and laughter is a lovely one. Have you made friends through jamming and singarounds who have become friends in other areas of your life as well, or does the connection remain fairly focused on music only? Of those 50, at least 15 have become beloved friends, both in music and in the world outside. Do you think any of the lessons you've learned in playing music with other people have carried over into other areas of your life? Absolutely. I trust people more, admire them more, am more open. Have you had any experiences organizing an event or becoming responsible for regular gatherings that have expanded your sense of yourself in relation to others, Funny you should ask- I realized just recently that my name in some circles has become synomynous with Friday night music! I must say that is a satisfying discovery. I haven't read the other responses yet- I suspect that the consensus will be along these lines. Perhaps painting, among the arts, is as fulfilling as music, but I can't imagine any other activities that come close. Thanks, WW. (Hey, couldn't you come up with another 'W'?) Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: WyoWoman Date: 10 Aug 02 - 11:34 AM Yeay!!!! This is exactly what I was needing. I've been sort of stuck with this story and then I realized that I was doing the Lone Ranger act, which is part of what I'm writing about -- music as the antidote -- and that the access to energy on this article would be through asking OTHER musicians what THEY think. Doh.... So, yes, I'd like to quote each of you so far and would like your actual names and where you live (you can PM them to me so's you're not hanging out all nekkid on the Internet...) Thank you so much! WWW (WilyWyoWoman) or maybe WickedWyoWoman or WonderbarWyo ... wellp, you get the drift ... |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 10 Aug 02 - 01:49 PM Hi, Wyo:
Been thinking about this thread and your questions. When I think of the best friends that I've made over the years, most of them are musicians, and yet I live a thousand miles away and never "jam" with them. Art Thieme became the closest of friends long before we had a chance to even sit down and talk for a half an hour. We met fleetingly at a Folk Legacy Festival... I don't even remember the conversation. Our friendship evolved through correspondence over many years with only occasional visits. Usually that would be when I booked Art at the concert series I ran, so we didn't sit around playing music after the concert. There was too much else to talk about. The only time we really spent much time swapping songs was when we used to split an evening at the Cafe Carpe in Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin. We never played or sang a song together because Art has been a solo act all of his life, and it wasn't natural for us to play instruments and sing together. Gordon Bok has been a close friend for as long as Art, and the friendship has stayed strong through letters more than visits. And like with other friends of mine, swapping songs was always a minor part of a visit.
Music has led me to meet many people who became good friends but I can't say that I've sustained a friendship for years solely on the strength of music. Hopefully, everyone is more three-dimensional than being a 24 hour a day musician. Because music has been my avocation, it's hard for me to carry on a long conversation about who is booking who, who didn't book me, and why, and all the shop talk that is far more important to someone who is trying to make a living than it is to me. I've also developed friendships that quickly expanded beyond folk music. Some of my friends love jazz, or rock and roll or country as much or more than they do folk.
For me, music has been the medium that has led me to friendships that far transcend it. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Kaleea Date: 11 Aug 02 - 02:14 AM About 5 1/2 years ago I moved back to the small Mid-western USA city where I went to Music school 20 years ago. I came because of family needs. Just a few (5-6) months after I got here, I saw a couple of folks playing Mountain Dulcimers at the local Rennaissance Fair, and asked them if there were a local orgainzation. Over 5 years later, my friends are all about the people in that orgainzation, and many of the other traditional music affecionados in the area. I hold office in the organization, I have made important contributions, and yes, plan activities, and carry them out. When I say these folks are friends, I mean my real friends, the kind who would see a need & just take care of it cause you have a need. The kind of folks who call & say, "why don't you come over & we'll have dinner & jam awhile." And while you're there, you sit with their kids, & the kids share about their lives with you, and you see them marry & have babies. I play in a couple of bands. Yes, I'd say that the music community has had a direct influence on my life! I can only work where I can leave for a week & a half so I can to the Walnut Valley Music Festival--every year! Oh, & did I mention that my family is a musical family, and we are involved in doing music at the church. And I teach music lessons, and . . .Music IS my Life. It is that which keeps me sane--well, close to it. Without music, I would go out of my mind! Without the wonderful friends in the traditional music community, I would have no mind left at all! |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: GUEST Date: 11 Aug 02 - 05:52 AM There is a community in Hull |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: The Shambles Date: 11 Aug 02 - 06:11 AM Despite the following, in the UK we do have both music and community - but it remains a struggle!
I asked my local police force the following question.
Firstly it is my opinion that many times when officers are called to deal with 'incidents' at or around liquor licensed premises, those officers are concerned with ensuring that any breaches of public order or reports of other nuisance are containe, controlled and ultimately dissipated. This they may quite often not actually determine the cause of any problem. However with noise nuisance complaints the cause is more obvious.
I cannot give any statistical information to indicate details in relation to the matter subject of your question as we do not keep such information.
But my second comment would be that I am not aware of any occasion when we have dealt with significant problems related to the watching of live TV sports programmes, whereas ther have been occasions when we have dealt with incidents relative to the playing of live music. I would add that for reasons of confidentiality I could not give you examples of premises in involved. So there are no statistics and there is no evidence available from the police to the Government, even to establish if the 'incidents' the police refer to here were to LIVE music or noise from this or to noise outside the premises - but of course everybody in the UK knows that live music, and ONLY live music will always cause wild public disorder. |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: GUEST,native Date: 11 Aug 02 - 10:21 AM Does anyone know the fairy tale about the brave little tailor |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Ebbie Date: 11 Aug 02 - 12:44 PM "Brave Jack," we kids used to say, "Seven at a whack." The Brave Little Tailor One summer's morning a little tailor was sitting on his table by the window, he was in good spirits, and sewed with all his might. Then came a peasant woman down the street crying, "Good jams, cheap. Good jams, cheap." This rang pleasantly in the tailor's ears, he stretched his delicate head out of the window, and called, "Come up here, dear woman, here you will get rid of your goods." The woman came up the three steps to the tailor with her heavy basket, and he made her unpack all the pots for him. He inspected each one, lifted it up, put his nose to it, and at length said, "The jam seems to me to be good, so weigh me out four ounces, dear woman, and if it is a quarter of a pound that is of no consequence." The woman who had hoped to find a good sale, gave him what he desired, but went away quite angry and grumbling. "Now, this jam shall be blessed by God," cried the little tailor, "and give me health and strength." So he brought the bread out of the cupboard, cut himself a piece right across the loaf and spread the jam over it. "This won't taste bitter," said he, "but I will just finish the jacket before I take a bite." He laid the bread near him, sewed on, and in his joy, made bigger and bigger stitches. In the meantime the smell of the sweet jam rose to where the flies were sitting in great numbers, and they were attracted and descended on it in hosts. "Ha! Who invited you?" said the little tailor, and drove the unbidden guests away. The flies, however, who understood no German, would not be turned away, but came back again in ever-increasing companies. The little tailor at last lost all patience, and drew a piece of cloth from the hole under his work-table, and saying, "Wait, and I will give it to you," struck it mercilessly on them. When he drew it away and counted, there lay before him no fewer than seven, dead and with legs stretched out. "Are you a fellow of that sort?" said he, and could not help admiring his own bravery. "The whole town shall know of this." And the little tailor hastened to cut himself a girdle, stitched it, and embroidered on it in large letters, "Seven at one stroke!" "What, the town!" he continued, "the whole world shall hear of it." And his heart wagged with joy like a lamb's tail. The tailor put on the girdle, and resolved to go forth into the world, because he thought his workshop was too small for his valor. Before he went away, he sought about in the house to see if there was anything which he could take with him, however, he found nothing but an old cheese, and that he put in his pocket. In front of the door he observed a bird which had caught itself in the thicket. It had to go into his pocket with the cheese. Now he took to the road boldly, and as he was light and nimble, he felt no fatigue. The road led him up a mountain, and when he had reached the highest point of it, there sat a powerful giant looking peacefully about him. The little tailor went bravely up, spoke to him, and said, "Good day, comrade, so you are sitting there overlooking the wide-spread world. I am just on my way thither, and want to try my luck. Have you any inclination to go with me?" The giant looked contemptuously at the tailor, and said, "You ragamuffin! You miserable creature!" "Oh, indeed," answered the little tailor, and unbuttoned his coat, and showed the giant the girdle, "there may you read what kind of a man I am." The giant read, "Seven at one stroke," thought that they had been men whom the tailor had killed, and began to feel a little respect for the tiny fellow. Nevertheless, he wished to try him first, and took a stone in his hand and squeezed it together so that water dropped out of it. "Do that likewise," said the giant, "if you have strength." "Is that all?" said the tailor, "that is child's play with us," and put his hand into his pocket, brought out the soft cheese, and pressed it until the liquid ran out of it. "Faith," said he, "that was a little better, wasn't it?" The giant did not know what to say, and could not believe it of the little man. Then the giant picked up a stone and threw it so high that the eye could scarcely follow it. "Now, little mite of a man, do that likewise." "Well thrown," said the tailor, "but after all the stone came down to earth again, I will throw you one which shall never come back at all." And he put his hand into his pocket, took out the bird, and threw it into the air. The bird, delighted with its liberty, rose, flew away and did not come back. "How does that shot please you, comrade?" asked the tailor. "You can certainly throw," said the giant, "but now we will see if you are able to carry anything properly." He took the little tailor to a mighty oak tree which lay there felled on the ground, and said, "if you are strong enough, help me to carry the tree out of the forest." "Readily," answered the little man, "take the trunk on your shoulders, and I will raise up the branches and twigs, after all, they are the heaviest." The giant took the trunk on his shoulder, but the tailor seated himself on a branch, and the giant who could not look round, had to carry away the whole tree, and the little tailor into the bargain, he behind, was quite merry and happy, and whistled the song, "Three tailors rode forth from the gate," as if carrying the tree were child's play. The giant, after he had dragged the heavy burden part of the way, could go no further, and cried, "Hark you, I shall have to let the tree fall." The tailor sprang nimbly down, seized the tree with both arms as if he had been carrying it, and said to the giant, "You are such a great fellow, and yet can not even carry the tree." They went on together, and as they passed a cherry-tree, the giant laid hold of the top of the tree where the ripest fruit was hanging, bent it down, gave it into the tailor's hand, and bade him eat. But the little tailor was much too weak to hold the tree, and when the giant let it go, it sprang back again, and the tailor was tossed into the air with it. When he had fallen down again without injury, the giant said, "What is this? Have you not strength enough to hold the weak twig?" "There is no lack of strength," answered the little tailor. "Do you think that could be anything to a man who has struck down seven at one blow? I leapt over the tree because the huntsmen are shooting down there in the thicket. Jump as I did, if you can do it." The giant made the attempt, but could not get over the tree, and remained hanging in the branches, so that in this also the tailor kept the upper hand. The giant said, "If you are such a valiant fellow, come with me into our cavern and spend the night with us." The little tailor was willing, and followed him. When they went into the cave, other giants were sitting there by the fire, and each of them had a roasted sheep in his hand and was eating it. The little tailor looked round and thought, "It is much more spacious here than in my workshop." The giant showed him a bed, and said he was to lie down in it and sleep. The bed, however, was too big for the little tailor, he did not lie down in it, but crept into a corner. When it was midnight, and the giant thought that the little tailor was lying in a sound sleep, he got up, took a great iron bar, cut through the bed with one blow, and thought he had finished off the grasshopper for good. With the earliest dawn the giants went into the forest, and had quite forgotten the little tailor, when all at once he walked up to them quite merrily and boldly. The giants were terrified, they were afraid that he would strike them all dead, and ran away in a great hurry. The little tailor went onwards, always following his own pointed nose. After he had walked for a long time, he came to the courtyard of a royal palace, and as he felt weary, he lay down on the grass and fell asleep. Whilst he lay there, the people came and inspected him on all sides, and read on his girdle, "Seven at one stroke." "Ah," said they, "what does the great warrior here in the midst of peace? He must be a mighty lord." They went and announced him to the king, and gave it as their opinion that if war should break out, this would be a weighty and useful man who ought on no account to be allowed to depart. The counsel pleased the king, and he sent one of his courtiers to the little tailor to offer him military service when he awoke. The ambassador remained standing by the sleeper, waited until he stretched his limbs and opened his eyes, and then conveyed to him this proposal. "For this reason have I come here," the tailor replied, "I am ready to enter the king's service." He was therefore honorably received and a special dwelling was assigned him. The soldiers, however, were set against the little tailor, and wished him a thousand miles away. "What is to be the end of this?" they said among themselves. "If we quarrel with him, and he strikes about him, seven of us will fall at every blow, not one of us can stand against him." They came therefore to a decision, betook themselves in a body to the king, and begged for their dismissal. "We are not prepared," said they, "to stay with a man who kills seven at one stroke." The king was sorry that for the sake of one he should lose all his faithful servants, wished that he had never set eyes on the tailor, and would willingly have been rid of him again. But he did not venture to give him his dismissal, for he dreaded lest he should strike him and all his people dead, and place himself on the royal throne. He thought about it for a long time, and at last found good counsel. He sent to the little tailor and caused him to be informed that as he was such a great warrior, he had one request to make of him. In a forest of his country lived two giants who caused great mischief with their robbing, murdering, ravaging, and burning, and no one could approach them without putting himself in danger of death. If the tailor conquered and killed these two giants, he would give him his only daughter to wife, and half of his kingdom as a dowry, likewise one hundred horsemen should go with him to assist him. "That would indeed be a fine thing for a man like me," thought the little tailor. "One is not offered a beautiful princess and half a kingdom every day of one's life." "Oh, yes," he replied, "I will soon subdue the giants, and do not require the help of the hundred horsemen to do it; he who can hit seven with one blow has no need to be afraid of two." The little tailor went forth, and the hundred horsemen followed him. When he came to the outskirts of the forest, he said to his followers, "Just stay waiting here, I alone will soon finish off the giants." Then he bounded into the forest and looked about right and left. After a while he perceived both giants. They lay sleeping under a tree, and snored so that the branches waved up and down. The little tailor, not idle, gathered two pocketsful of stones, and with these climbed up the tree. When he was half-way up, he slipped down by a branch, until he sat just above the sleepers, and then let one stone after another fall on the breast of one of the giants. For a long time the giant felt nothing, but at last he awoke, pushed his comrade, and said, "Why are you knocking me?" "You must be dreaming," said the other, "I am not knocking you." They laid themselves down to sleep again, and then the tailor threw a stone down on the second. "What is the meaning of this?" cried the other. "Why are you pelting me?" "I am not pelting you," answered the first, growling. They disputed about it for a time, but as they were weary they let the matter rest, and their eyes closed once more. The little tailor began his game again, picked out the biggest stone, and threw it with all his might on the breast of the first giant. "That is too bad!" cried he, and sprang up like a madman, and pushed his companion against the tree until it shook. The other paid him back in the same coin, and they got into such a rage that they tore up trees and belabored each other so long, that at last they both fell down dead on the ground at the same time. Then the little tailor leapt down. "It is a lucky thing," said he, "that they did not tear up the tree on which I was sitting, or I should have had to spring on to another like a squirrel, but we tailors are nimble." He drew out his sword and gave each of them a couple of thrusts in the breast, and then went out to the horsemen and said, "The work is done, I have finished both of them off, but it was hard work. They tore up trees in their sore need, and defended themselves with them, but all that is to no purpose when a man like myself comes, who can kill seven at one blow." "But you are not wounded?" asked the horsemen. "You need not concern yourself about that," answered the tailor, "they have not bent one hair of mine." The horsemen would not believe him, and rode into the forest, there they found the giants swimming in their blood, and all round about lay the torn-up trees. The little tailor demanded of the king the promised reward. He, however, repented of his promise, and again bethought himself how he could get rid of the hero. "Before you receive my daughter, and the half of my kingdom," said he to him, "you must perform one more heroic deed. In the forest roams a unicorn which does great harm, and you must catch it first." "I fear one unicorn still less than two giants. Seven at one blow, is my kind of affair." He took a rope and an axe with him, went forth into the forest, and again bade those who were sent with him to wait outside. He had not long to seek. The unicorn soon came towards him, and rushed directly on the tailor, as if it would gore him with its horn without more ado. "Softly, softly, it can't be done as quickly as that," said he, and stood still and waited until the animal was quite close, and then sprang nimbly behind the tree. The unicorn ran against the tree with all its strength, and struck its horn so fast in the trunk that it had not strength enough to draw it out again, and thus it was caught. "Now, I have got the bird," said the tailor, and came out from behind the tree and put the rope round its neck, and then with his axe he hewed the horn out of the tree, and when all was ready he led the beast away and took it to the king. The king still would not give him the promised reward, and made a third demand. Before the wedding the tailor was to catch him a wild boar that made great havoc in the forest, and the huntsmen should give him their help. "Willingly," said the tailor, "that is child's play." He did not take the huntsmen with him into the forest, and they were well pleased that he did not, for the wild boar had several times received them in such a manner that they had no inclination to lie in wait for him. When the boar perceived the tailor, it ran on him with foaming mouth and whetted tusks, and was about to throw him to the ground, but the hero fled and sprang into a chapel which was near, and up to the window at once, and in one bound out again. The boar ran in after him, but the tailor ran round outside and shut the door behind it, and then the raging beast, which was much too heavy and awkward to leap out of the window, was caught. The little tailor called the huntsmen thither that they might see the prisoner with their own eyes. The hero, however went to the king, who was now, whether he liked it or not, obliged to keep his promise, and gave him his daughter and the half of his kingdom. Had he known that it was no warlike hero, but a little tailor who was standing before him it would have gone to his heart still more than it did. The wedding was held with great magnificence and small joy, and out of a tailor a king was made. After some time the young queen heard her husband say in his dreams at night, "Boy, make me the doublet, and patch the pantaloons, or else I will rap the yard-measure over your ears." Then she discovered in what state of life the young lord had been born, and next morning complained of her wrongs to her father, and begged him to help her to get rid of her husband, who was nothing else but a tailor. The king comforted her and said, "Leave your bedroom door open this night, and my servants shall stand outside, and when he has fallen asleep shall go in, bind him, and take him on board a ship which shall carry him into the wide world." The woman was satisfied with this, but the king's armor-bearer, who had heard all, was friendly with the young lord, and informed him of the whole plot. "I'll put a screw into that business," said the little tailor. At night he went to bed with his wife at the usual time, and when she thought that he had fallen asleep, she got up, opened the door, and then lay down again. The little tailor, who was only pretending to be asleep, began to cry out in a clear voice, "Boy, make me the doublet and patch me the pantaloons, or I will rap the yard-measure over your ears. I smote seven at one blow. I killed two giants, I brought away one unicorn and caught a wild boar, and am I to fear those who are standing outside the room." When these men heard the tailor speaking thus, they were overcome by a great dread, and ran as if the wild huntsman were behind them, and none of them would venture anything further against him. So the little tailor was and remained a king to the end of his life.
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 11 Aug 02 - 01:02 PM Huh? Jerry |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Francy Date: 11 Aug 02 - 01:15 PM I have been having monthly folk concert in Toledo, Oregon for nearly four years now on a monthly basis.... I doesn't work overnight...You have to love what you're doing and fooocus on your intent...I am presenting Folk Music as close to the tradition as possible, whith no real thought for commemrcial success or big name recognition.... This is a logging mill community with some logging of 3000 people. they don't know a lot about folk music, but I've booked the likes of Mike Seeger, Rosalie Sorrels, Gordon Bok, Dick Gaughan, Anne Hills, David Mallett, Rick Lee, Sar Grey, Lee Murdock, Paul Geremia, Sean Tyrell, Roby Hu8w Bowen, Mary McCaslin, Jody Stecher and Kate Breslin, Louis Killen, Tom Russell, Steve Gillette and Cindy Mangsen and many others.....It has been really hard to break even, but I stuck to my plan and now I'm getting the community behind me....It took some time to gain their trust,in my judgement. Now they come to the concerts because they feel a part of it.....It been a trip but you have to use good judgement and have a h.l of a lot of patience.... I've learned many lessons and one of the most important one is odon't underestimate your community.... |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: WyoWoman Date: 11 Aug 02 - 02:23 PM I am completely baffled by some of those responses. Did someone wander into the wrong thread? Or did Spaw spike the punch again? Kaleea, your note made me misty. Can you email me with your name and city? Do you have any photos of yourself, particularly any of you playing/singing, with or without members of your music community? If I can get myself to Walnut Valley this year, I'd love to meet you. Many thanks -- WW |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Penny G. Date: 11 Aug 02 - 02:33 PM Whatchoosay ? |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Francy Date: 11 Aug 02 - 02:35 PM I hope I didn't misundertand this thread...Music and Community..That's what I'm doing here in Toledo,,Along with the concerts I have been able to bring many local singers and players to open for my concerts.......Is this what you mean ?....Working with the people of the community to be share in our music...Frank of Toledo |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: GUEST,native Date: 11 Aug 02 - 03:27 PM Thank you EBBIE ,I know part of the story but not all of it I asked my children if thgey knew it no luck I asked my sister and brothers they didnt know . But you did Thank you again .Larry W. |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Jeri Date: 11 Aug 02 - 03:43 PM Francy, I don't think it was you. I think it was the tailors and the police that seemed weird in this thread. See - we are a "diverse bunch of folks," just like I said above! Some seem to be focusing on the music community being a community of performers - the community secondary to the music. Some are talking about the music in one's community, where the music is secondary. I think the latter may have more meaning to Wyo's readers, but who knows?! If someone started having a coffeehouse or regular gathering in their community, they might turn up a whole new bunch of "performers." Folks get so used to saying "I can't sing" if they don't sound like a recording that they may not realise they've got real talent. It takes recognition from average people to bring that sort of thing out, AND an environment where it can happen. P.S. Anything I say is quotable, provided you give attribution to Catspaw if it's something I'll regret. However, if it's particularly intellgent, it probably wasn't me who said it. |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Ebbie Date: 11 Aug 02 - 05:32 PM LOL- sorry about that, folks. Guest/native's question about the 'brave little tailor' made me look it up- and then I couldn't stop myself from posting it, forgetting all about which thread this is. Brave Little Tailor seems such a metaphor for SOME, if you know what I mean, of our current political entities... |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Amos Date: 11 Aug 02 - 06:03 PM Wrong community, Ebb!! For my part, I can only say that I have made friends by reason of being involved with music that I count among my best, and have proven over time to be truer friends than any I have made based on more physical collisions. I have met plenty of people I would be honored to have called my friends for years, even only having known them for a short while. I added three or four more to this list at he Northwest Gather last month. These are folks who seem to me somehow to be prequalified as good people. I think I understood Mudjack better after hearing him sing for four minutes than i have understood some people I have known for decades!! :>) 'Course it could be that's just me! A |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: The Shambles Date: 11 Aug 02 - 06:16 PM I am sorry if I introduced a note of negativity, but we are social animals and don't live in isolation. The larger community we live in will affect how important or influential aspects like music and music making are thought to be and what contribution it can make.
Musical ghettos have no real attraction for me, and I doubt if they would prove to be satisfactory for too long to even the most purist musical tastes. I couldbe wrong here?
Since returning to Portland about 10 years ago, music became, not more important to me personally but took me and my music out more into community music making, in and with the public, as opposed to performing to the public.
It was possible to go to a pub every week and informally try out musical ideas, to learn and hopefully to encourage others. Over this period, and because this opportunity was there, I have watched many good folk progress from anxious novices to accomplished, knowledgable and more confident performers.
I feel that as a result, they are also more confident people generally. This is a small community and it is possible to follow progress of people quite well. To see them going out of this community and feeling ready to play in sessions and performing at large festivals all over the UK, is encouraging.
The struggle to gain recognition for the obvious benefits to the community of music sessions such as these, in the face of local authorities who could not see anymore than the strict interpretation and enforcement of licensing legislation, is what has caused my negative contribution to this thread.
For some reason, I still do not fully understand, and despite the obvious pleasure that music brings to just about everyone and every social occasion, people in the UK generally and officialdom in particular, have a deeply rooted belief that music and dancing are anti-social and will lead to and present dangers, that go beyond any logical reasoning. This is clearly refected in the letter from my local police.
This then leads us to accept without question, as necessary, controls on music making that go way beyond dealing with the few practical problems and really does seem to blind us to the undoubted benefits. Having stuggled to combat this attitude for nearly 2 years, I am beginning to doubt if it can be changed and that there is no real hope of changing legislation to encourage music making, without first changing this strange attitude. Is such an attitude unique to us?
For when our Government talks about encouraging culture, they really mean it and will throw real money at it, to enable it. In forms they can understand and control, anyway. It is the underlying but real fear of real people making and enjoying music, that will not be addressed. God forbid - people may even take part in dancing!
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Celtic Soul Date: 11 Aug 02 - 09:45 PM Oh, wow. Yes, emphatically, yes...music has had a great impact where my social life is concerned. Sharing something like music (or poetry, or art, or any other creative endeavour) with others helps to forge a bond that (from my perspective) is far deeper than those outside it. Most of my adult relationships have begun in and around performing. I find there is little connection between myself and those who do not intimately understand performance. We have so little to talk about, so little to connect with. I would also say that those relationships founded in music can be far more painful when they go south than those outside of this connection. There is more of a sense of vulnerability when I share something so intensely personal. For me, it makes for feelings beyond the normal hurt that comes in other relationships when suffering trials, or during their ends. And, yes, music helps me to learn quite a bit when it comes down to it. If I don't carry over the lessons learned inside of performance, I feel I am short changing myself *and* others. It has taught me patience (along with being a Mom, that is). I have learned how to smile in the face of adversity. I have learned that, when things have not gone well, wait an hour, and you may have a chance to do it a lot better. I have learned that satisfaction comes from a job well done, and also from doing a job you enjoy doing. I have learned that manners are first, and talent is second (though both are needed). I have learned that no one is indispensable, but some people are irreplaceable. I have learned that a child that grows up in a community of creative people is less apt to get into all the potentially destructive pastimes. I have learned that appreciation is a precious gift. |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: WyoWoman Date: 12 Aug 02 - 12:09 AM I agree with that last statement a great deal, Celtic Soul. I think the whole art of appreciation is one we don't get much facility with in most of our daily lives -- the idea of "holding the circle" for someone, and of recognizing the offerings of people who might not be the most "talented"in terms of vocal or instrumental production, but who offer the group something of themselves anyway. Shambles -- the situation you describe is very foreign to me. I've never heard of a folk group or regular jam running afoul of the law like that -- just occasionally losing a venue because the owner wanted a different kind of music, or because the musicians didn't actually buy anything at the pub or cafe where they were jamming. The folkie/trad folks seem to be a pretty mellow crew, and the cops in the communities where I've been have been either unaware or completely respectful. Heck, in Wyoming, one of our state troopers was in a couple of the jams I attended regularly. --ww |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 12 Aug 02 - 02:07 AM I don't know who the GUEST was, but they are correct! |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: Ebbie Date: 12 Aug 02 - 02:32 AM I have learned that no one is indispensable, but some people are irreplaceable. Great truth, CS. |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: The Shambles Date: 12 Aug 02 - 03:20 AM The folkie/trad folks seem to be a pretty mellow crew, and the cops in the communities where I've been have been either unaware or completely respectful. Heck, in Wyoming, one of our state troopers was in a couple of the jams I attended regularly.
The police are not really the problem, many individuals are helpful, but they do have to follow the law. The law just has built-in age-old fears and beliefs. Nationally, I feel that we want to be able to 'just do it' but something is holding us back from being able to hold our music as the vital part of the community, that we really know it to be and appreciate so much when we see it in other lands. |
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Subject: RE: MUSIC and COMMUNITY From: sed Date: 12 Aug 02 - 03:54 AM Streetsinging was a wonderful way to connect musically when I lived in or within commuting distance of street-performance-conducive urban areas such as Southside Birmingham, Boston, San Francisco and (for a while even) Carrollton, GA. The key to establishing one's self as a street musician is finding the right spot where you are really appreciated or at least tolerated. It seems that commercial interests often feel threatened and find ways to move you out of their area. As a "theoretical American" who is supposedly protected by the Bill of Rights I find the ability of businesses and of business-minded individuals to manipulate the law very disturbing but have not always found ways to plow through. As Americans we must realize that we are the real problem. We don't really believe that we deserve the Bill of Rights and so don't defend them. So it's my own fault in a way that I've given up street performing. It's just that as we get older it does seem less worth the trouble to do anything but to live quietly and unobtrusively, making as few waves and as little trouble as possible. At least that's my take on it all. Steve Sedberry (currently with no reasonable venue for live performance in a community setting, again, probably my own fault) |
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