BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 07:07 AM

pronunciation has never been my for-tay.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Hrothgar
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 06:58 AM

I don't know that we should accept a Scots pronunciation of anything. They speak less English than the Yanks.

:-))

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:30 PM

At this point in this thread (which btw is never going to win the "Least Tedious Mudcat Thread of 2002" Award ) it might be appropriate to point out yet another pronunciation of "Scone".

For the benefit of any brave souls contemplating making a pilgrimage to Scone in Perthshire (where the monarchs of Scotland were wont to be crowned in times of yore), it should be noted that "Scone" in this context is pronounced "SKOON".

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Kim C
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 05:57 PM

And don't forget the baNONnas.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 04:47 PM

Am I correct that no one in the States actually pronounces potato "potahto"? (Which rather makes nonsense of the song.)

(And the common pronuncuiation here is either "pottiyta" or "pottayter")

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 15 Sep 02 - 09:49 AM

gateshead=geetst

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Shields Folk
Date: 15 Sep 02 - 09:24 AM

Nycasil or "the toon"

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Escamillo
Date: 14 Sep 02 - 11:07 PM

Thanks Genie, that's much more clear: to-mah-to or to-may-to. In Buenos Aires many years ago when I was a child, all English Schools and private teachers were Brits or have studied in a British institution. Anything American was seen as second-class. (We pupils, too) Then we learnt to-mah-to and po-tay-to, but did never dare to ask why.

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Genie
Date: 14 Sep 02 - 08:59 PM

Well, I know that English -- especially as spoken in the US -- is very inconsistent in its pronunciation rules. But what I've never understood is why the Brits say "to-mah-to" but also say "po-tay-to."

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Sep 02 - 02:37 PM

More scones ... yes, I've always known them as skons in the north and s(cone)s in the south. (The story I told didn't get it wrong - we were supposedly trying each others delicacy)

As for Newcastle, I've always known it as something like Nygh-CASS-le . Certainly not New, its a totally different, short, strangulated sound! And the three syllables are the same length.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Escamillo
Date: 14 Sep 02 - 02:25 PM

Sure that guy was an Opera lover !! :) :) :)

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 10:12 PM

It's like the guy who was in England to improve his English and was having serious trouble with words that were spelt the same and pronounced differently,or spelt differently and pronounced the same.Walking past a theatre he saw a poster that said 'CATS-pronounced success'-and gave up and went back home.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Escamillo
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:57 PM

I'm always trying to enrich my poor English, but this is driving me crazy : How could you pretend that I know the difference between "tomato" and "tomato" if you dont give a clue about the phonetics, and the only thing I see is a pair of identical words ? ??

Un abrazo - Andrés (annoyed - or annoyed - or perhaps annoyed) (?)

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:37 PM

The English and the Americans are two nations divided by a common language.What does 'I'm wild about my flat' mean? In England 'I am ecstatic about the apartment in Which I live'. I America 'I'm most annoyed as my auto mobile has a punctured tyre'.But we have the Language,not the accent.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 08:26 PM

here in cheshire, there's the village of cholmondeley.it's pronounced 'chumley'. also burwardsley, can be said as 'bosley' or 'bursley'

more?

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 05:12 PM

How to Understand People in Nashville. By Kim C, Nashvillian for 28 years.

Here in Nashville, there's Demonbreun Street, named after 18th century adventurer/longhunter/explorer Timothy DeMontbrun. Most people call it... DeMUMbrum.

Then there's Lebanon, Tennessee, which is pronounced LEBnun. If you say LebaNON, you ain't from around here.

And Shelbyville... how do I spell this one? It's sort of like... Shebvul.

Murfreesboro = Murfsburra

Smyrna... well, Smyrna's a little different. People actually ADD a syllable to this one, making is SaMURna.

Cocke County.... I think we did this one right, because it's pronounced Cook. Isn't that the proper English way?

Maury County = Murry.

A street called Buena Vista = Byoona Vista.

Lafayette = LaFAYit

And if you talk about whiskey, it's Jack Daniel's. If you talk about the guy who made the whiskey, it's Jack Daniel, no S.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: GUEST,In Dixieland
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 04:58 PM

we say 'Maters' [you know, like 'Taters]

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 04:43 PM

The city in Indiana is two words, New Castle, but is pronounced NEWcastle.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: allanwill
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 04:40 PM

Bagpuss

Thanks for defining New-CAS-tle. You will now be my official reference whenever I get yelled at for my (supposed) mis-pronunciation.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 04:25 PM

Which reminds me of Mike Sparks' song - as in
Potatoes have feelings as well x 2
Potatoes have feelings,
Not just eyes and peelings
Potatoes have feelings as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: MMario
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 04:14 PM

a teacher I had in HS always pronounced 'tomato' as ter-mahd-ah.

'potato' was bah-day-do

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 04:06 PM

My mother, in Minnesota, 50 years ago, who had a lot of fun playing with words, often referred to "tommy-toes" also.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: GUEST,A REAL Jersey Tomato
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 03:49 PM

We prefer "tommy-toes".

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Memphis Mud
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:49 PM

A Tennessee Farmer had an Arkansas kid helping him out one day. As the drove past a store the Farmer said he needed some supplies. He stops, they go in. He tells the man behind the counter that he needs "some maters, some taters, and some nanners".

"You must be from Tennessee" says the shopkeeper. And they talked a bit about this and that.

When they returned to the truck, the kid asked "How did he know you're from Tennessee?" The farmer said "by the way I talk, I suppose."

The kid wasn't sure and wanted to check it out. So, he had the farmer stop at the next store, went in and said to the man behind the counter "I need some maters, some taters, and some nanners."

"You must be from Arkansas" said the shopkeeper.

"How'd you know that?" said the kid.

"Son, this is a hardware store"

(Sorry, Arkie. Maybe I should pick on Mississippi)

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:36 PM

McGrath, here in Tennessee, that would be...

Maaaaaydur. Although some say it very short and clippy, like, maydr, so it's almost one syllable. Same for tater.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:17 PM

"Count me in the 'Mater camp." Tha gives no indication of what kind of vowel sound you prefer, Kim C.

I've always pronounced scone to rhyme with bun, the way my mother said it. Mind, I don't think I've ever met anyone else who says it that way. Maybe she made it up.

The variation in accents in England is remarkable. Arguing about which is the "right way" to pronounce a word is to miss the point. The point being, to hold on to the variety, while welcoming the fact that it does not get significantly in the way of mutual understanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:07 PM

Oh no Bagpuss we always looked down our noses at anyone who asked for a scone as opposed to scon':-) It was considered pretentious. Scone always rhymed with gone in our house but since a lot of the locals said 'gorn' anyway.... But then gone and scone do go so well together!! Oh and I don't like tomatoes!

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Orac
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 12:04 PM

Bagpuss ... all the southerners I know say "scon" and frown on me for saying Scone as if it was a lower class thing. (Southerners tend to think of Northeners as a lower class anyway).

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 11:59 AM

Count me in the 'Mater camp.

Skedule or shedjool? Jagwar or Jagyooer?

Let's call the whole thing off. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Bagpuss
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 11:53 AM

Newcastle - definitely with a short a. Usually with the emphasis on the 2nd syllable - that is more common in the city, but in Gateshead it is equally commonly pronounced with the stress on the 1st syllable.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 11:13 AM

Mr. Happy, passion fruit is another fruit.

You MIGHT be thinking of "love apple" for the tomato.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: allanwill
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 11:10 AM

This is one I would like cleared up once and for all - is it New-CAS-tle or New-CAR-stle. In my opinion, the people from the original place with that name should have the final say in this matter.

So, any 'catters from there? If so, how do you pronounce it?

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Bagpuss
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 10:37 AM

Actually I'm from the north and say scon (short vowel) and so does everyone I know. The long vowel was always seen as the "posh" way to pronounce it.

The one I can think of that reverses the pattern is that I pronounce master with a long vowel, whereas I have heard people from further south pronounce it with a short vowel.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Orac
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 10:32 AM

Yes ... scones... thats the odd one isn't it where in the north we have the long vowel and the short in the south. ... Completely different to (or from) words like bath or lather. Why do we in England (usually) say carnt for can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: allanwill
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 10:20 AM

You can beat an egg but you can't beat a root!.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 10:19 AM

Scones ... On S(kon) versus S(cone): As a UK northerner, sharing a flat with another northerner and a southerner, we debated this, ending with the southerner entering a baker's and asking for two s(cones) and a s(kon). Disappointingly, the assistant didn't even blink.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Larkin
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 10:06 AM

Lets call the whole thing off!

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: MMario
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:42 AM

so what about r-o-o-f?

is it "ruff" as in rough?

roof to rhyme with hoof? (which I just realized also has two pronunciations) I mean the poronunciation that us more uhh then oooh.

rueff - where it is more ooo then uhhhh

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Orac
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:28 AM

I'm quite aware of that but I thought we were talking about long or short vowels. I know that some people take liberties with the pronunciation but a long centre vowel seems to be constant in England with a short one in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:17 AM

Well, you might pronounce tomato "to-mah-toe", Orac, but that's only one among many ways Elglish people say it.

"Toma'uh" with the glottal stop is quite frequent in the South-East. Then elsewhere there's "temara" "termarter"...

But so long as we all spell it the same way there's no problem in understanding the written language, A bit like Chinese, where the same character can mean totally different words in totally different spoken languages, all meaning the same thing

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Orac
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:04 AM

I think if we start aguing about the differences between UK and USA pronunciations we will get no-where. Obviously being English I say to-mah-to but I wouldn't expect an American to. I notice above that someone spelt a singular tomato as tomatoe .. I seem to remember a certain vice-president doing something like that with "potatoe" and ending up with egg on his face. A passion-fruit is something completely different anyway ... I think you are getting mixed up with love-apple which is another name for a tomato.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Memphis Mud
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 08:16 AM

Some performers are all too aware that TOMATO can also be pronounced AMM-U-NIH-SHUN. (I think Spaniards know this too.)

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 08:15 AM

"tomato" is always pronounced "tomato", no matter how you pronounce it. The same is true of all other words.

For example, Tim Laycock was saying at Whitby that he'd found that, if you wanted to get Dorset people to pronounce the poems of William Barnes (Linden Lea and so forth) in proper Dorset, the thing to do was to scrap Barnes's valiant attempts to write them down with a spelling that attempted to reproduce the accent (see that website I gave the link to), and instead to write them down with standard spellings, and leave it to the reader to pronounce the words the way they talked.

One of the advantages of spelling in English not being consistant and logical is that it lends itself to this kind of flexibility. I believe that a strict phonetic spelling would tend to stamp out local variation far more effectively.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Trevor
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 08:09 AM

Pyjammas or pyjarmas? Ass or arse?

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 07:29 AM

'sconns, 3d- scones 4d!'

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Oaklet
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 03:19 AM

In Hull; "term-erter" is the norm or "nerm" as they would say.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: fat B****rd
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 03:13 AM

Scone as in gone or scone as in stone.

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Venthony
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:30 AM

MAter or taMAter are correct.

Tony

Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Genie
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 12:08 AM

Well, actually, I'm comfortable pronouncing it either "tomato" or "tomato," but some folks would say either is wrong because they say "either" is correct.

Genie

Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:40 PM

the commonest vowel sound in english is the schwa sound. consequently nouns such as potato,tomato are usually pronounced 'temarteh/r', perteayter/h'